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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Facts can be stubborn things. Facts are not swayed by political hype.


https://heartland.org/opinion/world-climate-declaration-there-is-no-cl
imate-emergency/

https://www.ntd.com/over-1600-scientists-sign-no-climate-emergency-dec
laration_938916.html

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Facts can be stubborn things. Facts are not swayed by political hype.


https://heartland.org/opinion/world-climate-declaration-there-is-no-cl
imate-emergency/

https://www.ntd.com/over-1600-scientists-sign-no-climate-emergency-dec
laration_938916.html

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There's a difference between a climate emergency/crisis and a climate shift. The difference is time frame. I don't buy the idea that we have a crisis at hand that will require draconian action by TPTB. OTOH I accept it as fact that the climate is indeed changing, and that we should mitigate what we can (eg, eliminate our world-straddling military, ban private jets, plant more urban trees, manage our forests better, incentivize agricultural and ranching practices to store more carbon in the soil, solarize in sunshine states, supplement with wind power in windy states etc.) and adapt where we can't (create north-south corridors for species migration, pre-plant long-lived species like trees for pre-adaptation, manage ocean preserves and land reservations to maintain biodiversity, etc.)

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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM

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Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Facts can be stubborn things. Facts are not swayed by political hype.
https://heartland.org/opinion/world-climate-declaration-there-is-no-cl
imate-emergency/

https://www.ntd.com/over-1600-scientists-sign-no-climate-emergency-dec
laration_938916.html

SIGNY: There's a difference between a climate emergency/crisis and a climate shift. The difference is time frame. I don't buy the idea that we have a crisis at hand that will require draconian action by TPTB. OTOH I accept it as fact that the climate is indeed changing, and that we should mitigate what we can (eg, eliminate our world-straddling military, ban private jets, plant more urban trees, manage our forests better, incentivize agricultural and ranching practices to store more carbon in the soil, solarize in sunshine states, supplement with wind power in windy states etc.) and adapt where we can't (create north-south corridors for species migration, pre-plant long-lived species like trees for pre-adaptation, manage ocean preserves and land reservations to maintain biodiversity, etc.)

JSF: From what I can tell, you have been advocating shifting all prosperity to the planet's greatest polluters: China, India, Mexico, Brazil, Russia, Ethanol Industry aka Big Ethanol.
Not sure if that is because you want humans to perish, or only just Americans.

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Originally posted by second:
Trump wrote: "Shawn Fain, the respected President of the United Auto Workers, cannot even think about allowing ALL ELECTRIC CARS - THEY WILL ALL BE MADE IN CHINA, and the Auto Industry in America will cease to exist! There is already a giant 'E GLUT,' they don't go far or long, are very expensive, and the consumer must be given a CHOICE."

The former president also urged users to vote for him in 2024 as he will "stop this madness" and claimed, without evidence, that Mexico and Canada love "Biden's idiotic policy."

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-auto-workers-strike-1827306

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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According to my sources, the industry strategy is to make the bargaining entirely about wages and working conditions, offer the autoworkers a very generous raise of more than 30 percent, but concede nothing when it comes to the EV sector, and hope that the union takes the deal. That would be a disaster. It would represent the union being bought off for present workers at the expense of an increasingly non-union auto future. Too much of the decline of organized labor over the past several decades has followed exactly this pattern.

The industry hope is to put Fain in a bind, since such a deal might look very good to the rank and file. It would take gumption and leadership for Fain to reject the deal and tell the industry to come back with a bargain that included EVs.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

I have a feeling you know that already though, don't you shill?


Your TDS is so strong that if Trump agrees with Democrats on something you will automatically turn on it and come to the defense of corporations.

You are a silly, hollowed out shell of a stupid, stupid man.

--------------------------------------------------

How you do anything is how you do everything.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If EVs such a hot demand, why do they have to be mandated by government?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If EVs such a hot demand, why do they have to be mandated by government?

SECOND: For the same reason as seat belts and lead free gasoline and mileage standards and crash safety and safety glass and airbags and anything that is not skin-deep fashion.

UAW-automakers negotiations pit falling wages against skyrocketing CEO pay
https://angrybearblog.com/2023/09/falling-auto-worker-wages-and-increa
sing-ceo-pay

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If EVs such a hot demand, why do they have to be mandated by government?

SECOND: For the same reason as seat belts and lead free gasoline and mileage standards and crash safety and safety glass and airbags and anything that is not skin-deep fashion.

UAW-automakers negotiations pit falling wages against skyrocketing CEO pay
https://angrybearblog.com/2023/09/falling-auto-worker-wages-and-increa
sing-ceo-pay

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Well then, don't fucking blather on about "giving consumers what they want", dolt. EVs are mandated. You said it yourself.

Jeez, you're such a turd.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If EVs such a hot demand, why do they have to be mandated by government?

SECOND: For the same reason as seat belts and lead free gasoline and mileage standards and crash safety and safety glass and airbags and anything that is not skin-deep fashion.
UAW-automakers negotiations pit falling wages against skyrocketing CEO pay
https://angrybearblog.com/2023/09/falling-auto-worker-wages-and-increa
sing-ceo-pay


SIGNYM: Well then, don't fucking blather on about "giving consumers what they want", dolt. EVs are mandated. You said it yourself.
Jeez, you're such a turd.

SECOND: Every Trumptard I know has a life full of woe and lamentation because they think and act like you.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You get caught out making a ridiculuous statement that EVEN YOU contradict, and your go-to-response is to drag a red herring "Trumptard!" across the topic.

Fucking turd. Address the topic in a logical way. Yanno, like maybe where you don't contradict yourself from one sentence to the next, like what usually comes out of that Mix Master inside your head.

IF YOU CAN.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I DO read past first sentences, SECOND. JUST NOT YOURS.



So, let me get this straight:

You SUPPORT the strikers because auto workers aren't sharing in the profits.
And...
You DON'T support the workers bc they want you keep making the same-old-same-old, like "Trumptards" everywhere.


*****
You DON'T support the strikers bc they're not keeping up with "what the customers want"
And...
Customers don't really WANT EVs, they have to be mandated by government 'for our own good'.

*****

There's no point reading ANY of your posts bc, as usual, you just splatter the crap that's swirling around in your head onto the board, with no rhyme or reason.
When you've figured out WHAT you really think... if you ever do... then you might be worth reading.
laugh:








-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I DO read past first sentences, SECOND. JUST NOT YOURS.



So, let me get this straight:

You SUPPORT the strikers because auto workers aren't sharing in the profits.
And...
You DON'T support the workers bc they want you keep making the same-old-same-old, like "Trumptards" everywhere.


*****
You DON'T support the strikers bc they're not keeping up with "what the customers want"
And...
Customers don't really WANT EVs, they have to be mandated by government 'for our own good'.

*****

There's no point reading ANY of your posts bc, as usual, you just splatter the crap that's swirling around in your head onto the board, with no rhyme or reason.
When you've figured out WHAT you really think... if you ever do... then you might be worth reading.









-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Union workers won't have to worry about that because there's zero chance that 50% of vehicles sold will be EVs in 2030.

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Originally posted by SECOND:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Union workers won't have to worry about that because there's zero chance that 50% of vehicles sold will be EVs in 2030.

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You aren't good with probabilities.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Union workers won't have to worry about that because there's zero chance that 50% of vehicles sold will be EVs in 2030.

SECOND: You aren't good with probabilities.
Would you live in a building, cross a bridge, or trust a dam wall if there were a 10 percent chance of it collapsing? Or five percent? Or one percent? Of course not! In civil engineering, acceptable probabilities of failure generally range from one-in-10,000 to one-in-10-million.
So why, when it comes to climate action, are policies like carbon budgets accepted when they have success rates of just 50 to 66 percent? That’s hardly better than a coin toss.

Policy-relevant scientific publications, such as those produced by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, focus on the probabilities—the most likely outcomes. But, according to atmospheric physicist and climatologist Hans Joachim Schellnhuber, “calculating probabilities makes little sense in the most critical instances” because “when the issue is the survival of civilization is at stake, conventional means of analysis may become useless.”

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:


We've used the ocean as our ultimate resource and dumping ground, but it seems we've exceeded even IT'S limits. Some of the solutions to, or mitigations of, global warming overlap with solving or mitigating these other problems:

Better forest management. Hand-thininng and hand-cutting instead of clear-cutting.
Cover-cropping to retain moisture, soil, fertilizer.
Re-establishment of estuaries and wetlands as 'cleanup' zones before discharge into the ocean.


As you know, SECOND, I do think that climate shift is happening. But there are better sollutions out there beyond a mass knee-jerk imposition of a technology that may (or might not) in the end improve our situation.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Son, if one bad forest fire year undoes 18 years of CA decarbonization, maybe we should ... yanno... ADDRESS THE STUFF THAT HAS THE HIGHEST IMPACT?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Son, if one bad forest fire year undoes 18 years of CA decarbonization, maybe we should ... yanno... ADDRESS THE STUFF THAT HAS THE HIGHEST IMPACT?


SECOND: Cut down the forest before it burns

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Or cut fire lanes in the forest and hire a huge forest fire department.

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Or burn the underbrush often enough to prevent forest fires.

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Or do nothing and let the forests burn.

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SECOND::Imagine a world where there were no sewage treatment plants.

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SECOND: What a messy and disgusting world that would be. Now imagine a world, the one we live in, where CO2 floods the environment like an overflowing toilet. It is everywhere and it is ruining everything it touches.

Until CO2 is treated as a waste product like sewage

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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SECOND::Imagine a world where there were no sewage treatment plants.

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It's called India

Quote:

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SECOND: What a messy and disgusting world that would be. Now imagine a world, the one we live in, where CO2 floods the environment like an overflowing toilet. It is everywhere and it is ruining everything it touches.

Until CO2 is treated as a waste product like sewage

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You DO know how sewage treatment plants work, don't you?

They work by speeding up natural processes. Same with CO2 removal.

YOUR idea of decarbonizing the world is the equivalent of telling the world "HEY, STOP SHITTING!" to solve the sewage problem. Well, unlike shitting, we can actually reduce our carbon emissions. But we can't stop them entirely.

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SECOND::Imagine a world where there were no sewage treatment plants.

SIGNY: It's called India


SECOND: What a messy and disgusting world that would be. Now imagine a world, the one we live in, where CO2 floods the environment like an overflowing toilet. It is everywhere and it is ruining everything it touches.
Until CO2 is treated as a waste product like sewage

SIGNY: You DO know how sewage treatment plants work, don't you?
They work by speeding up natural processes. Same with CO2 removal.
YOUR idea of decarbonizing the world is the equivalent of telling the world "HEY, STOP SHITTING!" to solve the sewage problem. Well, unlike shitting, we can actually reduce our carbon emissions. But we can't stop them entirely.

SECOND: Fact: 99 percent of wastewater is just water; the other 1 percent is solids, chemicals, nutrients, fats, and other pollutants.
https://wateruseitwisely.com/blog/journey-pipes-happens-wastewater/

The major products of the complete combustion of petroleum-based fuels in an internal combustion engine is water (13%), with nitrogen from air comprising most (73%) of the remaining exhaust. Carbon dioxide (13%).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK531294/

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Signym, there is the problem. 13% of combustion exhaust is waste

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SECOND: ... needing to be buried.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Or captured. Yanno, there is such a thing as a nitrogen cycle and another such thing as a carbon cycle. It turns out, our wastes overwhelm both. There are several solutions to the problem :

Reduce the amount of waste
Enhance the natural cycles
Industrially bury our waste...the "midden solution" where we bury our waste and hope it doesn't come burping back up.

Fortunately sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate are pretty innocuous compounds, so if we can turn CO2 into Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 we're good to go

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Or captured. Yanno, there is such a thing as a nitrogen cycle and another such thing as a carbon cycle. It turns out, our wastes overwhelm both. There are several solutions to the problem :

Reduce the amount of waste
Enhance the natural cycles
Industrially bury our waste...the "midden solution" where we bury our waste and hope it doesn't come burping back up.

Fortunately sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate are pretty innocuous compounds, so if we can turn CO2 into Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 we're good to go

SECOND: The CO2 that is already in the atmosphere will have to be subtracted at a rate about ten times faster than the CO2 was added.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Or captured. Yanno, there is such a thing as a nitrogen cycle and another such thing as a carbon cycle. It turns out, our wastes overwhelm both. There are several solutions to the problem :

Reduce the amount of waste
Enhance the natural cycles
Industrially bury our waste...the "midden solution" where we bury our waste and hope it doesn't come burping back up.

Fortunately sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate are pretty innocuous compounds, so if we can turn CO2 into Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 we're good to go

SECOND: The CO2 that is already in the atmosphere will have to be subtracted at a rate about ten times faster than the CO2 was added.

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OR WHAT?
What is your goal? On what endpoint and timeline was this caculated?

Sounds purposefully alarmist to me. I'd sure like to see the assumptions that this is based on.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I see you avoided answering the question.

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Green Bubble Burst: US ESG Fund Closures In 2023 Surpass Total Of Previous Three Years
Friday, Sep 22, 2023 - 03:55 AM

For years, green and socially responsible investments, aka ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance), have dominated the investing world. However, according to Bloomberg, a seismic shift is underway as BlackRock and other money managers unwound an increasing number of 'green' products amid soaring backlash and investor scrutiny.

Data from Morningstar shows State Street, Columbia Threadneedle Investments, Janus Henderson Group, and Hartford Funds Management Group have unwound more than two dozen ESG funds this year. The latest unwind comes from BlackRock, who told regulators last Friday it plans to close two ESG emerging-market bond funds with total assets of $55 million.

Source: Bloomberg

So far this year, the number of ESG funds closing is more than the last three years combined. This trend comes as investors pull money out of these funds as the ESG bubble has likely popped.

We asked this question in early summer: Is The ESG Investing Boom Already Over?

In January, BlackRock's Larry Fink told Bloomberg TV at the World Economic Forum in Davos that ESG investing has been tarnished:

"Let's be clear, the narrative is ugly, the narrative is creating this huge polarization. "

Fink continued:

"We are trying to address the misconceptions. It's hard because it's not business any more, they're doing it in a personal way. And for the first time in my professional career, attacks are now personal. They're trying to demonize the issues."

By June, Fink's BlackRock dropped the term "ESG" https://www.axios.com/2023/06/26/larry-fink-ashamed-esg-weaponized-des
antis following billions of dollars pulled out of its funds by Republican governors, most notably, $2 billion by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis.

The crux of the issue that Republican lawmakers have with radical ESG funds is that they were trying to impose 'green' initiatives on the corporate level to force change in society, and many of these initiatives would be widely unpopular at the ballot box during elections.

Remember these comments from Fink?

Alyssa Stankiewicz, associate director for sustainability research at Morningstar, told Bloomberg, "We have definitely seen demand drop off in 2022 and 2023."

Also, let's not forget about the 'greenwashing' across ESG industry.

Matt Lawton, T. Rowe Price Group Inc.'s sector portfolio manager in the Fixed Income Division, recently concluded: "It's becoming increasingly difficult to find credible sustainability-linked bonds."

The tide is reversing for Fink: "Backfire: World's Fourth Largest Iron Ore Producer Stops Purchasing Carbon Offsets."

Don't forget this: "McDonald's Scrubs Mentions Of "ESG" From Its Website."

Oops, Mr. Fink.

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BlackRock CEO Drops "ESG" Term After Blowback
Monday, Jun 26, 2023 - 07:00 PM

On Sunday, BlackRock CEO Larry Fink revealed at the Aspen Ideas Festival that he had abandoned the term "ESG" (environment, social, and governance) because it has been highly politicized and even "weaponized," and he is "ashamed" to be part of the debate, according to Axios.

Fink acknowledged at the event that Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis' decision to yank $2 billion in assets hurt his firm. Gov. DeSantis pulled state assets managed by the world's largest money manager in late 2022 over "woke" capitalism policies.

Lawmakers from red states have called out BlackRock for its toxic woke capitalism push in corporate America. Besides Florida, states like Louisiana, South Carolina, Utah, Arkansas, West Virginia, Missouri, and Texas have withdrawn funds from the asset manager.

Recall Fink was very nervous earlier this year over the 'demonization' of ESG.
Source: Bloomberg

Last month, seventeen Republican state attorneys filed a motion with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission to dispute whether BlackRock could purchase more than $10 million voting stakes in utility companies.

"These elitists are trying to impose restrictions [i.e. decarbonization] on energy companies and utilities that would never win approval at the ballot box.
"Their schemes could raise utility bills for regular Americans, including elderly Hoosiers on fixed incomes, and they could diminish the value of their investment accounts," Indiana Attorney General Todd Rokita said in a statement last month.

Fink, 70, said he was "ashamed of being part of this conversation," adding:

"When I write these [investment] letters, it was never meant to be a political statement. … They were written to identify longterm issues to our longterm investors."

Of course, that's nonsense. Fink has been at the center of pushing 'climate change' policies and has even said his company would "force behaviors" on corporate America.

And then there's this...

Video: Blackrock CEO Larry Fink: "Markets don't like uncertainty, markets like actually totalitarian governments... the whole dimension is changing with the deomcratization of governments ... "
https://twitter.com/i/status/1673042281652166657

Axios said at the event:

When pressed on the statement later in the conversation, Fink backtracked.

"I never said I was ashamed," he said, incorrectly. "I'm not ashamed. I do believe in conscientious capitalism."

"I'm not going to use the word ESG because it's been misused by the far left and the far right," he added.

Fink isn't ashamed of ESG... He's furious the scheme to ram woke capitalism down corporations through voting proxies has hit a serious snag and generated serious blowback from lawmakers and average Americans.

Here are some of BlackRock's top holdings...

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
No, I'm merely pointing out that your fatuous statement about "we must capture carbon dioxide at TEN TIMES THE RATE at which it was emitted" was based entirely on... NOTHING.

*****
"We must capture carbon dioxide at ten times the rate it was emitted in order to

...reach pre-industrial levels of atmospheric CO2 in 30 years???

... avoid exceeding the threshold of increasing average global temperature more than 2degC in 15 years???

... make my investment in carbon capture technology profitable??

*****


I mean, WHAT? Apparently even YOU don't know!
Silly, silly man.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
No, I'm merely pointing out that your fatuous statement about "we must capture carbon dioxide at TEN TIMES THE RATE at which it was emitted" was based entirely on... NOTHING.

*****
"We must capture carbon dioxide at ten times the rate it was emitted in order to

...reach pre-industrial levels of atmospheric CO2 in 30 years???

... avoid exceeding the threshold of increasing average global temperature more than 2degC in 15 years???

... make my investment in carbon capture technology profitable??

*****


I mean, WHAT? Apparently even YOU don't know!
Silly, silly man.



SECOND: Most people will wait until green energy is blah blah blah blah
..

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
FUN FACT: Wind Turbine blades are 100% non-recyclable . . .

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

What does this have to do with your incredibly stupid statement?

Oh, NOTHING, you say??

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At first glance, a September 2019 meeting before the California Public Utilities Commission in Los Angeles looked like democracy in action. Speakers lined up before the state’s powerful utility regulator to debate the merits of natural gas. One by one, climate activists supported powering buildings with zero-emission appliances running on clean electricity. Burning gas in homes and businesses currently emits a quarter of the state’s carbon pollution that is worsening climate change. More than a dozen business owners followed suit, arguing instead for the preservation of gas. Their activism, however, was far from grassroots.

A concealed contract showed that the nation’s largest gas utility had paid a leading Los Angeles business association to recruit speakers against electrification, and drive them to the meeting using ratepayer money. Speaker Sassan Rahimzadeh, owner of a San Diego dry cleaning company, was recruited to attend. He told The Sacramento Bee he was troubled to learn that the arrangement was charged to customers of SoCalGas.

“As a ratepayer,” he said, “that would concern me big time.”

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