'Gun control' is meant to keep guns out of the hands of black and brown people. by Wulfenstar

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Lets see. No responsibility. No parenting. No accountability. Nothing is right or wrong, just shades of gray. Everyone is a precious little snowflake."

Hello,

Is that how you were raised? I'm sorry.

I had good parenting and accountability. My parents believed in right and wrong. They also thought I was a precious snowflake. And my father spent a lot of my childhood explaining to me about all the gray places, and how nothing is as simple as it looks.

He is a great man, and probably the most honorable man I'll ever know.

So, anyhow... You were saying?

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 1:46 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

WHOM were the ones raising children at that time? WHOM were the ones who started this mess?

Ummm... The ones who couldn't properly use "whom" in a sentence...?

And who is it that YOU think was raising all the children in the last 50 years? Were there NO conservatives around during all that time? None?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 1:51 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Well, the last desperate gasp of the drowning man in a pool far too deep for them (especially in the political and ideological sense) is to correct spelling.

Here. Heres a life vest for you.

Swim away to a more shallow thread.

Or make one up.

"Its all Bushes fault!", sounds about right.

Thats your depth. Stick to it.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Monday, July 26, 2010 1:58 PM

BYTEMITE

Now we're quoting Tyler Durdan? What's up with this whole "nihilism: for kids!" kick you're on?

Shades of grey doesn't mean there's no such thing as right or wrong, it means there are two sides to every story and layers of morality. Someone may be mostly in the right, but maybe they've done a few things in asserting their rightness that are morally questionable. Or maybe there's a guy who's very selfish, but he has a soft spot for his family or something, a tiny spec of redemption in a sea of darkness. Maybe that tiny spec can be made to grow, maybe the few things he does care about makes him human, and could bring him around to repentance and light.

I've seen it happen. Just because you haven't doesn't mean the darks are all pitch black and the lights are all blinding white.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 2:01 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Now we're quoting Tyler Durdan?"

Whatever works

Heh

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Monday, July 26, 2010 2:28 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Whatever works

Heh

We need more guns. Guns make us safe from other guns. See how nice 1880's Tombstone was?
And if nothing's real to you but the girl, even bullets can't kill you....???

crap... I'm having a Melkotian moment....

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, July 26, 2010 2:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"no, but it can make a difference in how much a kid might WANT a gun."

This reminds me of people who don't want kids to take Sex Ed. ;-)

Except that everyone has a body, and can... um... learn to make use of it without any outside help or equipment. And sex generally doesn't kill or maim innocent bystanders.

Really, it's an entirely different thing. You said it yourself Anthony: more girls would be into guns if more girls had experience with them. Teaching how to shoot in school is exactly that - more experience with firearms. Hence, more interest.

Besides that, there's the issue of having guns in school. How the hell you secure that? I shot some big ones in Vegas (the Terminator package woo-hoo!

) and I had two very big, very armed, obviously very experienced men standing next to me making sure I didn't go nuts and turn the lever action on the wrong target. Imagine a poor overworked teacher having to manage a whole class of teenagers! Even if there was one gun they had to share... Dear god.

Actually, I took wood shop in junior high and it was the cool thing to make cross bows. (I made a chess board instead. Dork here.) So the entire class had to watch hunting safety videos. But they were never allowed to load the bows at school.

OK, but I'm with you on the basic idea though: gun owners should have some kind of education in firearms. (Just not in high school.) There's one gun control thing I just do not see how anyone can argue with: you need a basic level of knowledge to drive a car. Damned straight you ought to need something like that before you operate a gun.

One other thing: I hear gun rights advocates always talking about those "gun control" people who want NO ONE (no private citizen) to have a gun. Anthony, I think you mentioned that up the thread a bit. Really? I've never ever heard even the most liberal tree hugger say that. Are you sure that you're not inventing an enemy that doesn't exist? Who are these people who want all private guns outlawed? Seriously, I'm confused every time this comes up. Is there anyone not on the crazy fringe who has said that?

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Monday, July 26, 2010 2:32 PM

Damn

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Monday, July 26, 2010 2:49 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
sex generally doesn't kill or maim innocent bystanders.

Clearly you are too young to have ever watched Dallas or Dynasty.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, July 26, 2010 2:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
sex generally doesn't kill or maim innocent bystanders.

Clearly you are too young to have ever watched Dallas or Dynasty.

The laughing Chrisisall

You'll note I said "generally"

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Monday, July 26, 2010 3:01 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

You'll note I said "generally"

Oh, heh heh. Sorry- child of the eighties here.

The age of insane jealousy, mortally-imperative co-dependence & AIDS.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, July 26, 2010 3:38 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"One other thing: I hear gun rights advocates always talking about those "gun control" people who want NO ONE (no private citizen) to have a gun. Anthony, I think you mentioned that up the thread a bit. Really? I've never ever heard even the most liberal tree hugger say that. Are you sure that you're not inventing an enemy that doesn't exist? Who are these people who want all private guns outlawed? Seriously, I'm confused every time this comes up. Is there anyone not on the crazy fringe who has said that? "

Hello,

I'm on my way out, but here's three I found in 5 minutes. There's better ones, and I wish I had them to hand. Not only have there been pushes to outlaw all private gun ownership, but there have been pushes to outlaw private sale of ammunition.

I'll try to get a wider sampling for you. But anyway- no. It's not fringe. A lot of people want to make private ownership either impossible, or so limited as to be impractical. A lot of folks want to remove the troublesome 2nd amendment as well.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/052400-103.htm
http://www.vpc.org/studies/unsafe.htm
http://www.banallguns.com/

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 4:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Well, the last desperate gasp of the drowning man in a pool far too deep for them (especially in the political and ideological sense) is to correct spelling.

Here. Heres a life vest for you.

Swim away to a more shallow thread.

Or make one up.

"Its all Bushes fault!", sounds about right.

Thats your depth. Stick to it.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

Gosh, I'm sorry, boy. Did I offend you by pointing out just how much of a moron you are?

Maybe I should have posted up a video to make my point, eh? 'Cause there's NOTHING desperate about that, is there?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:21 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yes, there certainly are probably as high percentage of gun ownership in the West as anywhere else. But the sex ed comparison is fallacious on several points. For one, everyone has sex, and that’s happening younger and younger, and sex ed is intended to teach the younger population about avoiding unwanted pregnancy. Not everyone has a gun; and to say “piece of equipment’ is truly fallacious; they should have training in handling a microwave, etc., as well? I understand what you’re saying, but I disagree. I didn’t say no training, I don’t think it belongs it in schools as a part of regular curriculum, that’s all.

Quote:
When you were a teen, it was probably much more common to see High Schoolers with shotguns and rifles

Are you kidding, Anthony? No, I NEVER saw teens with guns of any kind; the violence level with guns and younger and younger people being involved is a MUCH more recent development, that’s a fact. One has to wonder how much the violence to which you ascribe came ABOUT as a result of guns in the hands of younger people. I’m not saying gun OWNERSHIP increased before Columbine, but we became a more violence-oriented society and parental responsibility weakened, both of which I’m convinced contributed to Columbine and further school violence.

As to who was raising children when gun violence really started going up, it was the generation AFTER the hippies (who I know are your favorite targets on which to blame everything). Lets look at the facts:

Look at the timeline and let’s follow it IN GENERALITIES. For the hippie generation (who were teens in the mid-1960s lets say, as I was then), most got married in their early 20s, so their children would have been teenagers by 1980. The rate went DOWN from 1980-1985, which is when my generation would have been in their 40s, and their children would be in their twenties, raising kids of their own. It went UP from 1985 to the mid-1990s. So that’s the NEXT generation’s responsibility, not ours. Keep trying to blame hippies for all the ills of society; it's easy enough to prove you wrong every time. It's a personal prejudice, Wulf, if you could just recognize that and use your brains when contemplating making such statements, maybe you could refrain from them and showing your ignorance on the subject.

Aside from which, as I've said before, "hippies" were a TINY MINORITY of the population at any one time...can you possibly remember just THAT fact?

More likely after my generation families truly became those with two working parents; there is your “lack of parenting” if you will, and from that time forward.

Making a point, when it’s refuted and your glaring misuse of GRAMMAR (not spelling) is pointed out, focus on the remark about grammar and totally ignore the salient points. Anthony’s point reinforces what I just said, and Mike’s point is valid...can you tell us what the makeup of the country was during that time; i.e., did Republicans outnumber Democrats in bringing up children? THOSE are the salient points; address them, rather than pick the one you want to accuse of “making things up”.

I see Mal4 made my argument about the difference between sex ed and gun ed, as well as another good point I hadn’t thought of; given today’s overburdened school system and class size, it’s a valid point. I was trying to make the point he made much better in that experience (exposure) to guns CAN very easily increase interest in them. Also, a biggie I wish we could keep in mind; I, as well, no of nobody (liberal or conservative) who is against ANY guns, against private ownership of guns. If we could remember that the idea is responsible gun ownership rather than “no guns at all!”, it would be helpful.

I checked out your links, Anthony. I only read the first paragraph to get a sampling of where they were going. The first one is obviously black-and-white and very anti-NRA. The second one says “The United States has not so much a firearms problem as a handgun problem.” While I agree handguns contribute to our violent society, the violence was there, handguns didn’t create it, just made it easier. The third one, “Ban All Guns”, had a very pertinent quote in the beginning so I read further. The example provided, supposed to make a point about ownership of guns, was pretty pathetic—a kid thinking he was playing with a harmonica?

As I said, I know of nobody saying “ban all guns”. I’d like to know what the membership of those sites is, and yes, of course there are extremists on both sides...shall I put up three websites equally fervent that everyone should have guns on the other side? You know how easy that would be. I said, and so did Mal4, that we know of no one...and if you like, I could say “I don’t believe reasonable people, or the VAST majority of people” don’t advocate for no guns whatsoever...it’s a pretty ridiculous stance to take.

I thought the initial debate wasn't gun CONTROL keeping guns from minorities...big difference between gun control and gun banishment.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I'll try to get a wider sampling for you. But anyway- no. It's not fringe. A lot of people want to make private ownership either impossible, or so limited as to be impractical. A lot of folks want to remove the troublesome 2nd amendment as well.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/052400-103.htm
http://www.vpc.org/studies/unsafe.htm
http://www.banallguns.com/

Thank you Anthony. Do you know anything about who these people are? I mean, any nugget can make a web page, and two of these are pretty old. Are these people at all close to power? Have any candidates for big office actually run on a platform of banning guns?

Caveat: the past decade has taught me that what I think of as fringe insanity can actually take power and do horrible harm to the country. So I understand that, if this fully anti-gun fringe is out there, it should be attended to. But are they really at all close to power?

I guess my frustration stems from seeing the NRA types aiming their arguments at gunner-banner-ites, when I feel the debate should be at a different level. Of course guns shouldn't be banned, but reasonable controls over the heavy stuff, and some requirement of education, doesn't seem unreasonable.

Anyhow, back to the thread. I'm really confused. I don't get Wulfie's point. He's saying that gun control is a racist issue? If it was, I'd expect him to support that policy, given what he's said about the bad, violent culture of all those inferior non-white races...

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:59 AM

Quote:

Anyhow, back to the thread. I'm really confused. I don't get Wulfie's point. He's saying that gun control is a racist issue? If it was, I'd expect him to support that policy, given what he's said about the bad, violent culture of all those inferior non-white races...

Well, he says gun control is a racist issue because, as he so often points out, when one runs completely out of valid arguments, one can always just yell "Racism!" and change the debate.

Of course, when that doesn't work, THEN all the violence is the fault of the hippies, of course. Y'know, 'cause they were SO violent...

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:20 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Anyhow, back to the thread. I'm really confused. I don't get Wulfie's point. He's saying that gun control is a racist issue? If it was, I'd expect him to support that policy, given what he's said about the bad, violent culture of all those inferior non-white races... "

Im hard on certain groups because I care. (Hold the snark) I know the reasons certain groups cannot hump the ruck, but its time to move past that.

As to your question...

After the Civil War (or War of Northern Agression.. whatever)... Gun laws were passed to keep the "darker" portion of the population from owning weapons.

Its still the same today. But, as that would be political suicide to say... you have to make up bs about "guns kill people".

I could go into how you actually have to have a person operating the tool to fulfill that, but...

NY, Chicago, LA. These places have some of the most draconian gun laws... while also having some of the highest percentage of minorities.

They are also the most "liberal".. (heh, liberal, what a false term)

It just comes back to the idea that "lawmakers" in these "liberal" areas don't believe that brown and black people are capable of the responsibility of weapon ownership.

But, thanks to guys like Otis McDonald, moderate libs are starting to rethink their stance.

There may be hope.

Also, for the record, TEXAS would never try and disarm its people. THERE they at least TRY to stay close to the Constitution.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:46 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

On the issue of a gun safety elective in school: I actually did learn to use a microwave, a stove, an oven, a blender, a food processor, and a SEWING MACHINE in school, in an elective. How many houses have sewing machines? I'd imagine that a course on gun safety would have non-functioning firearms in the classroom, followed by a field trip at the end of the course to a local range where a gun is rented and operated by the students in a safe manner to prove proficiency and understanding of principles. I'm not sure why the idea of teaching teens the safe handling of a gun is controversial. Especially if it's an elective.

On the Issue of 'Banning all Guns' Gun Control: The biggest gun control organization is the Brady Campaign. In the 1970's they wanted to outlaw all handguns, and said so. They have since revised their position, suggesting they only want reasonable controls of gun ownership. But what is reasonable?

1) The Brady Campaign wants to outlaw 'assault rifles.' However, their definition of 'assault rifle' is any semiautomatic or self-loading rifle. This is the majority of all rifles in existence.

2) The Brady Campaign has called for the outlaw of 'plastic guns' with a polymer frame. This comprises a large percentage of all handguns in existence, and the majority of modern semiautomatic firearms (including those used by military and police forces, who woule be exempt.) There is no reason to outlaw 'plastic guns' except to accomplish the goal of making fewer firearms available, and all firearms more expensive. It serves no other practical purpose whatsoever.

3) The Brady Campaign has called for weapons to be stored locked and unloaded, preferably with the ammunition stored seperately from the firearm, making them utterly useless for any purpose other than taking them to a shooting range.

4) The Brady Campaign has periodically called for firearms to be limited to one per household, or one per adult, depending on the political climate of the times.

5) The Brady Campaign, in association with environmentalist or animal-welfare groups, has called for an abolition of various types of ammunition. There are sound ecological and human health and safety reasons to want to scale back lead ammo, however outlawing it would create the coincidental and wholly unintended effect of making 95% of all ammunition manufactured suddenly illegal for sale in the US. The replacement ammunition types are coincidentally much more expensive. Many people would be priced right out of the ammunition market... Entirely by coincidence, of course. And it goes without saying that the government agencies would be exempted from the switch, meaning inexpensive surplus ammo would no longer be available.

They have other platforms, positions, and planks, but the end result is that when you accumulate the entirety of their 'reasonable controls' of gun ownership, the majority of modern firearms would be outlawed. Firearms would be required to be kept and transported in a way that makes them useless for anything other than range duty. Firearms would be more expensive. Ammunition would be more expensive and more difficult to purchase.

And so, the ultimate goal is to nullify as many firearms as possible by controlling the legal type, storage, and transport conditions. They have changed their public position since the 1970's, but this appears mainly a shifting of gears to avoid making 'extremist' political statements. Their goal is to approach the British ideal: An effective gun ban without having to declare it as such. As long as someone, somewhere, can afford an overpriced, limited feature firearm incapable of being used to defend themselves, they haven't advocated a gun ban, have they?

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:49 AM

BYTEMITE

When they taught me how to use the sewing machine, I made a pair of boxers with one of the legs sewn shut. :x

I suspect I'd be pretty good at a gun though. I've discovered that the hand-eye coordination that video games have trained in me makes me really good with a catapult.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:55 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

..... and people start to wake up.

I love this.

Thanks Ant.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:57 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I was horrible with the sewing machine, too. You should have seen the tangles I would manage. No one could figure it out.

I made a decent cookie, though, once I got over the temptation to keep peeking into the oven. :-)

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:30 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Anthony, I freely grant you the Brady Bunch, I'd forgotten about them. However, when you contrast their membership (approx. 50,000) with that of the NRA (4 million) and the Second Amendment Foundation (650,000), that's not a compelling argument that there are a large proportion of people out there who want to ban all guns.

By the way, I've never been able to sew to save my life, with or without a sewing machine. I can cook, and embroider, but not sew. And I flunked Home Ec. I also played with plastic horses, made stables, had steeplechases with my best friend rather than playing with Barbie. And had a large collection of snakes, remember. Culturally-bised sex means nothing unless you buy into it.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:41 AM

Interesting thread. Once again I get some insight into how different things are in the US to here and Europe. Guns are such a big agenda over there, aren't they, in a way that just doesn't happen here.

Gun ownership, gun safety, all pretty non issues. My son wasn't even able to own a toy gun - which is also pretty 'normal' here - although he did put lego to some creative uses and we do have a household full of fake swords - who said you have to be consistent all the time.

I've noticed that people talk about their firearms in the same manner they might discuss their vehicles - could it be that guns are just another consumer item with status value???

I'm horrified at who they let own cars, which at least were made for a utilitarian, non killing people sort of purpose, even if they end up as weapons of mass destruction. I know how many people are out there who get pulled up drunk, high, psychotic and in charge of a vehicle. Why would I want to encourage them to also own a gun??? Eeeeks, no way.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:45 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Hows the 'knife crime" over there?

A British person defends themselves agains a home intruder, they go to jail. (While the person who intended to rob, rape, maim, kill, the homeowner, skips off)

An American defends themselves against a home intruder, they get a by-line in the paper, and maybe even congratulations from the "authorities" (while the home invader is never able to hurt anyone ever again).

I'll stick to being an American, thank you very much.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:49 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Thank you Magons. It's nice to hear someone put that out there, because it is very true. Americans have a mentality toward guns which no other country does. It's not "status", it's probably more about how we were founded, the Old West, and those traditions being carried forward. I've never thought of people owning a gun as any form of "status", but it does definitely speak to a distrust of government and a very strong desire for "liberty" and "individuality", as it were.

I'm sad we started out the way we did and that the mentality has been carried forward, but it has and you'll never change that here. I can only hope it doesn't catch on worldwide any worse than it already has/is.

We like to think of ourselves as rebels, ruggedly individiualistic, in America, but it's not been true for many years--the mentality will persist, tho', it's part of our makeup.

Now watch'em come down on my head like a ton of bricks. You'll get more evidence of how heated the topic is...over here, the gun argument is one of the real biggies, and never stops.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:54 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Of course you will catch hell for that Nix.

You want someone telling you how to live. Someone with "authority", someone with "more training"...

hell, anyone with a badge and a sense of entitlement.

But for some of us crass Americans, we realize that the only person who knows whats best for us... is, well, us.

We want to go our own way, and not have some government getting in our way.

Freedom, the power of the individual... yeah, thats U.S.

Fuck the government.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Hows the 'knife crime" over there?

It hurts when they stick it in you, I gather that. What's your point?

Quote:
I'll stick to being an American, thank you very much.

And America is welcome to keep you, thank YOU very much

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:02 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Interesting thread. Once again I get some insight into how different things are in the US to here and Europe. Guns are such a big agenda over there, aren't they, in a way that just doesn't happen here."

Hello,

Honestly, I think that's fine. Britain never had a huge gun culture. Even before they were widely outlawed, very few Brits owned handguns. I find some British prohibitions against self-defense to be troubling, but ultimately you folks have the right to build the country you want for yourselves. I'd even be happy to visit. I have some friends across the pond, and they are fantastic people. I would not feel unsafe walking your streets, nor would I feel that the government is particularly likely to bring harm to me or my family while I'm there. That says good things about our friends in the United Kingdom. What you are doing for yourselves there has made a nice place for you to live in, and one that you all thoroughly enjoy.

I want what I want for me here, but that doesn't mean I think you all are wrong for what you have there.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

A British person defends themselves agains a home intruder, they go to jail. (While the person who intended to rob, rape, maim, kill, the homeowner, skips off)

I'm not sure where you get your misinformation, but I'd imagine that people who rob, rape, maim and kill actually do get prison sentences in Britain, so long as they have been proven guity by a court of law.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Interesting thread. Once again I get some insight into how different things are in the US to here and Europe. Guns are such a big agenda over there, aren't they, in a way that just doesn't happen here."

Hello,

Honestly, I think that's fine. Britain never had a huge gun culture. Even before they were widely outlawed, very few Brits owned handguns. I find some British prohibitions against self-defense to be troubling, but ultimately you folks have the right to build the country you want for yourselves. I'd even be happy to visit. I have some friends across the pond, and they are fantastic people. I would not feel unsafe walking your streets, nor would I feel that the government is particularly likely to bring harm to me or my family while I'm there. That says good things about our friends in the United Kingdom. What you are doing for yourselves there has made a nice place for you to live in, and one that you all thoroughly enjoy.

I want what I want for me here, but that doesn't mean I think you all are wrong for what you have there.

--Anthony

I feel the same way for Britain as well. Nice place but wouldn't want to live there.

BTW. I wasn't advocating that you change anything, just making an observation about the differences in the cultures, which always surprises me.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"Anyhow, back to the thread. I'm really confused. I don't get Wulfie's point. He's saying that gun control is a racist issue? If it was, I'd expect him to support that policy, given what he's said about the bad, violent culture of all those inferior non-white races... "

Im hard on certain groups because I care. (Hold the snark) I know the reasons certain groups cannot hump the ruck, but its time to move past that.

Let's not "move past that" just yet. Pray tell, WHAT are the reasons you "know" why certain groups "cannot hump the ruck"? What groups, and what reasons? Please elaborate.

Quote:

As to your question...

After the Civil War (or War of Northern Agression.. whatever)... Gun laws were passed to keep the "darker" portion of the population from owning weapons.

Its still the same today. But, as that would be political suicide to say... you have to make up bs about "guns kill people".

Well, the guns certainly seem to HELP kill people, don't they?

Quote:

I could go into how you actually have to have a person operating the tool to fulfill that, but...

NY, Chicago, LA. These places have some of the most draconian gun laws... while also having some of the highest percentage of minorities.

They are also the most "liberal".. (heh, liberal, what a false term)

I think that every time I hear "conservative", too. What a joke.

Quote:

It just comes back to the idea that "lawmakers" in these "liberal" areas don't believe that brown and black people are capable of the responsibility of weapon ownership.

Or, it COULD be that the more liberal the city becomes, the more it doesn't like the idea of ANYONE having guns... But that wouldn't play into your "raciss" ideologies, would it? You'd never be able to scream "RACISM!" unless you could convince yourself that the liberals ONLY wanted to keep guns out of the hands of black and brown folks.

Quote:

Also, for the record, TEXAS would never try and disarm its people. THERE they at least TRY to stay close to the Constitution.

Well, thanks for the vote of confidence, but that doesn't explain how or why Dallas and Houston made the top 10 worst guncrime cities, does it? Did any other state manage to put TWO cities into the top ten? Hell, did any other NATION manage it?

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Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:37 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

It was partially our "gun culture" that made it so British people didnt have to speak German...that and a lot of our crass American guts.. just saying.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

"Fuck a feminist... they need it"

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Hows the 'knife crime" over there?

Far less common than the gun crime over here, I'd wager. And far less deadly as well.

Quote:

A British person defends themselves agains a home intruder, they go to jail. (While the person who intended to rob, rape, maim, kill, the homeowner, skips off)

An American defends themselves against a home intruder, they get a by-line in the paper, and maybe even congratulations from the "authorities" (while the home invader is never able to hurt anyone ever again).

Thanks for the gross generalizations. I guess you missed the one the other week that Anthony posted about the "American" who was facing charges for shooting the guys trying to steal his trailer?

Quote:

I'll stick to being an American, thank you very much.

Yes, it seems we're stuck with you.

"Being called a Liberal by a racist is a badge of honor."

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Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
It was partially our "gun culture" that made it so British people didnt have to speak German...that and a lot of our crass American guts.. just saying.

Yes, and it was partly British culture that made it so you don't have to speak Iroquois. Just sayin'. And it was largely French culture that made it so you aren't still a British subject. Just sayin'.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 1:37 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oh, for heaven’s sake Wulf, knockit off. You tried that tactic before, stop repeating yourself like something has validity long after it’s been refuted.

If I wanted someone telling me how to live, I wouldn’t have become a hippie—most of my friends at that time did not, and certainly those in authority didn’t tell me to! I wouldn’t have taken up riding a motorcycle and kept it up for 45 years; I wouldn’t have kept snakes; voted contrary to my parents; become buddhist, and so many other things I’ve done that are out of the norm!

When exactly did I say I trusted anyone with a badge? And where on EARTH could you have gotten the idea I trust anyone with a sense of entitlement??? That’s the last person on earth I’d trust or take advice from.

I’m buddhist, remember? We don’t have a “god”, we believe the only one responsible for us is us, it’s the very basis of my belief system. To claim the exact opposite is the height of folly and shows just how far out of reality you are based. I’d bet money I’m a helluvalot more out of the mainstream than you’ve ever been, which means I’m more individual than you. As for taking responsibility for myself, I actually DO, rather than just wallowing in talking points and imaginary heroes and thinking I can fix everything with a gun or a revolution. I take REAL responsibility; I stand up for what I believe in (without violence, which is the coward’s way), I make my voice heard, I physically put myself OUT there, take responsibility for my relationships with other people and trying to treat them with respect, things you can’t possibly comprehend, from the way you post here.

Sometimes your fantasies get on my nerves. And since you question my going to the Gulf, you obviously have no respect for me. I have little or none for you when you throw out your absurd “I’m more American than you” or “I’m more courageous than you” bullshit. Individualism is about RESPONSIBILITY, not showboating and looking down on other people.

I never followed society’s “rules” for females; you, on the other hand, are the epitome of someone who sees himself as a “man’s man”. Heroes, villains, it’s all cut and dried for you, which makes life a lot simpler and less scary, definitely, but it’s not the real world.

You’ve taken your life circumstances and never set foot outside them, and you judge the whole world by your own experiences and resulting standards. I’ve traveled the world, and I PAID ATTENTION while I did; I see my country as something I love but which is imperfect, which is up to me to help improve—not just ripped apart because I disagree with it RIGHT NOW. I’ve met and learned from people in all walks of life and all races. Some here see you as “racist”, I don’t. I see you as prejudiced and bigoted, but not specifically “racist”...your prejudices and bigotry stretch to so many more who are different than you, race is only a small part of it. I have no doubt that if you knew/know anyone of a different race who THINKS like you do and agrees with you, you’re less prejudiced against them. But by gawd, let them be Democrat, Muslim, hippie, a “ferriner” you can’t relate to, you’ll go after them with both guns blazing and think you’re so self-righteous doing so. That’s how wars start. How they FAIL to start is by respecting others, LISTENING to them, trying to relate to them, and working to find common ground.

I won’t even go into “fuck the government”. I’d just like to see how you would be—how you REALLY would be, not how you think you’d be—if you didn’t have it! You can’t envision improving it, just tear it down and “let me do my own thing. But don’t YOU do YOUR own thing if I don’t agree with it!”

As to “American guts” keeping the Brits safe, don’t kid yourself. If we were there and they were here; if we were stuck on a small island (sorry PK) with limited means, and they were the ones with the huge military-industrial complex, it would have been the same. Brits have guts—my gawd, they withstood the Nazis throughout a horrific situation and kept on going, they have more “guts” than you can even imagine. You are SO wrapped up in your idealistic fantasies, it blows my mind. You TRULY think Americans have more guts than the British? The only reason we won the Revolution was that we gave birth to guerrilla tactics when war had hitherto always been a ritualistic “game” led by the generals, and because it was on our own turf, far away from their ability to quickly move troops. Don’t kid yourself; we’re no better or worse than anyone else on this earth, and we have NO claim to more “guts” than anyone (except maybe the French...I can say that ‘cuz I’m half French).

As an American, I'm rather ashamed of your misplaced ego and your reflection of the "guns solve everything" mentality many of us have.

It wasn’t our gun culture that got us over to England to fight the war. In fact, maybe if we’d been in their place and they in ours, they’d have come over SOONER. Our isolation policies kept us from “coming to their rescue” (as you obviously see it) for quite some time, if you didn’t know. We are a huge, rich, YOUNG country, that doesn’t make us inherently better than any other.

“An American defends themselves against a home intruder”, and often gets sued. Or if they don’t do it right according to the authorities, jailed. Compare us to other countries in THAT way if you want; we’re an incredibly litigious society. Or the jury finds the intruder not guilty for lack of evidence. A gun is NO guarantee—and police don’t “congratulate” people who kill home intruders, get real! More often than not they resent people taking the law into their own hands (I won’t go into that because I don’t agree with them, but that’s how it realy IS). It’s that American ego that gets it in the papers, that and it’s unusual so news, but vigilantes who run around being “heroes” often get the wrong KIND of headlines, and having a gun is no guarantee you’re gonna come out on top with an intruder. As has been mentioned, the gun is probably not to hand, or the owner is a worse shot than the intruder, or gets the gun taken away from him. It maybe is helpful in some instances, not in the majority, I'd wager.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 2:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
It was partially our "gun culture" that made it so British people didnt have to speak German...that and a lot of our crass American guts.. just saying.

What...??? Those 'well regulated militias' that instantaneously mobilised and came to the rescue? I must have missed that bit of history. i thought it was the American military - you know the one armed, funded and controlled by government that participated in the war.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 2:18 PM

Well, Magons, if I'm not mistaken, Wulfie has also claimed before that he was in the U.S. Marines. You know, that outfit that is so well-known for not letting the government take care of them, for not doing what they're told, for not ever feeling any sense of "entitlement" for their service, for not taking orders, for not respecting rank or office...

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Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 2:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Far less common than the gun crime over here, I'd wager. And far less deadly as well.

Knife crime is common here. Knives are definitely the weapon of choice for a thug, although I did hear of a service station that got held up with a snake once.

I never made the link that no guns = no crime. That would be ridiculous. There are lots of theories on what sets levels of crime, particularly violent crime in a society. I'm sure someone with more knowledge of criminology than myself would be able to give the stats and theories, but my understanding is that number of things contribute including -population density (the higher the worse the crime rate, economic factors such as how many people live on or below poverty line and economic equity of population ie how big is the gap between rich and poor,
cultural factors - where people come from and how culturally, they resolve conflict- ie if you lived somewhere lawless or in a warzone, you'll probably behave differently to someone who was brought up herding goats on a mountain.

Avaibility of weapons would also have to be a factor, but it's not going to be the only one.

Hoever, more guns = more gun crimes. I think that stat is pretty solid.

And I'd disagree that more guns prevent crime.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 2:52 PM

Knife crime in the UK and Australia...

http://carmentheaussie.wordpress.com/tag/australia-knife-statistics/

Wow - almost one a week in the UK! Take away their guns, and they go on a knife-wielding crime spree!

Meanwhile, the U.S. leads the world's developed nations in gun crimes and gun deaths, with stats as high as 15 deaths by gun per 100,000 population. Compare that to someplace like Japan, with 0.05/100,000, where guns are strictly forbidden.

Now, between the U.S. and Japan, which of the two would you say has the reputation for being the more "polite" society?

I point out all that as someone who IS what some would call a "gun bunny"; I like guns. I enjoy shooting them. I buy ammo in blocks of 1000 rounds at a time. I'm well-armed, but I don't know that that makes me safer. Or more polite. ;)

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Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
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On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 3:48 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Wulfie has also claimed before that he was in the U.S. Marines"

Hello,

Please tell me that you just made that up.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 4:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Wulfie has also claimed before that he was in the U.S. Marines"

Hello,

Please tell me that you just made that up.

Well, I prefaced that with "If I'm not mistaken". I may very well BE mistaken, but I thought he mentioned it before.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:09 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Wow, other than the wulfenwhiner, this thread has been very rational and informative, it's nice to see a discussion around here not devolve, for once.

I take note of the mentioned trope, Byte - even the part you left out, it WAS a gift, that weapon, and the kids grandpa said he "could think of no better hands than mine" to put it in, prolly cause I seem to be the only one willing to actually handle it, and he thinks maybe I can "redeem" it or something, I dunno...
One other trope to that did get a laugh out of me, far as folk classin me as "evil" goes.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle6vgp6b47?from=Main.If
YoureSoEvilEatThisKitten
Yeaaaah, I guess that disqualifies me, heh.

More topic-related stuff in a while, I got rounds to do.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 6:29 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Noooo... I dont believe I ever said that before.

My family has been in the Marines, but I have NOT.

I DO NOT want someone confusing that.

So again, to be clear. No. I have not ever been in the corps.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 8:48 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Interesting thread. Once again I get some insight into how different things are in the US to here and Europe. Guns are such a big agenda over there, aren't they, in a way that just doesn't happen here.

Hi Magons. I would be very cautious about making any conclusions about the US based on what you read here.

The precent of gun owners and gun lovers on this board versus what I find in real life is very different (much higher on this board). The only 2 people I know with guns both grew up in rural areas and both use guns to hunt. I honestly don't know anyone who has a gun for home defense.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:26 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Piz,

Would you care to say what area that is? I know some people who DESPERATLY need a new tv, dvd player, computer, watch, jewlery, cash... etc.

In fact, to help facilitate the transaction... please put a sign outside of the houses that are disarmed.

It makes things so much easier, afterall.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:35 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

So funny, when I was typing that I actually thought you'd ask, "what's your address?"

I have 2 rottweilers, one named Smith and one Wesson.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:38 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Dogs are nice. I like dogs. The problem is that they are not bullet-proof. Such a shame really.

Have you put up the signs yet?

Got to be able to know which houses are defenseless.

Obamanomics at work.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:42 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

I have signs I made that say: "I have a gold plated gun" "This isn't the house you're looking for" "My neighbor just got paid" "Doesn't throw me in da' briar patch, nah sir!"

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:18 AM