REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

West Antarctic Ice Sheet's Collapse Triggers Sea Level Warning

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Monday, December 20, 2021 01:00
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Saturday, June 14, 2014 8:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I'll just leave this little nugget right here...

http://phys.org/news/2014-06-major-west-antarctic-glacier-geothermal.h
tml

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 11:43 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Lemmie guess... Koch brothers and fraking are causing the geothermal activity in the Antarctic, huh ?

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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 12:50 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


false dilemma

It's not either/ or. According to the first sentence of your cite, it's both: 'Thwaites Glacier, the large, rapidly changing outlet of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, is not only being eroded by the ocean (you may not realize it, but what they're saying here is that it's being eroded by the ocean), it's being melted from below by geothermal heat ..."




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 6:05 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


So if the melting is 90% due to the geothermal the remaining 10% is a crisis ?


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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:09 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

YES !!!!

www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/06/10/Krugman-climate-denialis
m-is-Ayn-Rand-s-fault


Well, think about global warming from the point of view of someone who grew up taking Ayn Rand seriously, believing that the untrammeled pursuit of self-interest is always good and that government is always the problem, never the solution. Along come some scientists declaring that unrestricted pursuit of self-interest will destroy the world, and that government intervention is the only answer. It doesn’t matter how market-friendly you make the proposed intervention; this is a direct challenge to the libertarian worldview.

And the natural reaction is denial — angry denial. Read or watch any extended debate over climate policy and you’ll be struck by the venom, the sheer rage, of the denialists.

The fact that climate concerns rest on scientific consensus makes things even worse, because it plays into the anti-intellectualism that has always been a powerful force in American life, mainly on the right. It’s not really surprising that so many right-wing politicians and pundits quickly turned to conspiracy theories, to accusations that thousands of researchers around the world were colluding in a gigantic hoax whose real purpose was to justify a big-government power grab. After all, right-wingers never liked or trusted scientists in the first place.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:27 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Science is a tool , nothing more. It's the misapplication of it, and politicizing that often goes along , that many mistrust.

Hitler comes to mind, and Dr Mengele's twisted attempt to justify the extermination of lesser , sub humans.

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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 10:27 AM

BYTEMITE


When I hear of a 15-20 feet sea level rise, it's if Greenland melted. Greenland is far more likely to melt than the icecaps, as Antarctica is still around 37 below in the winter and the north pole in winter is about -34 degrees on average.

If ALL the ice caps melted, oceans would raise 67 meters/213 feet. Icebergs broken off from a large ice shelf can raise the sea level a little, but I'm having some doubts about 40 feet. This volume displaced that they're talking about here just doesn't sound like it would be sufficient for that.

The last estimate I heard suggested at the current rate of iceberg production, ice melt, and ocean thermal expansion (which is a much larger factor than the other two), we'd see a sea level change of between 15 to 97 centimeters by 2100.

I'd say this article is probably misquoting the scientists.

EDIT: Here, here's some wikipedia.

Quote:

In January 2006, in a UK government-commissioned report, the head of the British Antarctic Survey, Chris Rapley, warned that this huge west Antarctic ice sheet may be starting to disintegrate. It has been hypothesised that this disintegration could raise sea levels by approximately 3.3 metres (10 ft).[9] (If the entire West Antarctic Ice Sheet were to melt, this would contribute 4.8 m to global sea level.)


So it's not 15 feet plus another 15 to 20 feet. It's ten feet in total if the whole thing disintegrated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Antarctic_Ice_Sheet

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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 10:32 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Science is a tool , nothing more. It's the misapplication of it, and politicizing that often goes along , that many mistrust.

Hitler comes to mind, and Dr Mengele's twisted attempt to justify the extermination of lesser , sub humans.



It takes a special kink of psyche to think over ninety percent of the world’s scientists have a political agenda. Or to use Hitler and Mengele’s as an example to show how scientists attempt to justify their experiments.

This country was built on science, yet once it gives us bad news some try to dismiss it or besmirch it. The ranks of deniers are growing thinner and exposing those left to be little more than fools.




si shen



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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 10:43 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I'd rather stand alone & be right than side with the masses & be wrong.

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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 10:47 AM

BYTEMITE


Well, you certainly are very to the right... Not so sure about standing alone. The whole conversation about human impacts wouldn't be near so politicized if there weren't people on both sides playing tug-of-war.

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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 11:00 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'd rather stand alone & be right than side with the masses & be wrong.



Your my hero



si shen



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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 6:53 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Well, you certainly are very to the right...



Actually, I'm not. I'm more of a 'towards the middle ' sort.


Quote:

Not so sure about standing alone. The whole conversation about human impacts wouldn't be near so politicized if there weren't people on both sides playing tug-of-war.



You say 'both sides', as if the Right has the same culpability to this as the Left. They don't. It's predominantly the Left who has made this political. The Right are merely trying to ward off the over reach of the State, under the false pretense that we must 'save the planet' or some such go-se.


When there's Hugo Chavez,flatly stating in public, that this whole business of AGW is to rid the world of capitalism and bring about a true socialist society, THAT IS POLITICS !

When you have SCIENTISTS, openly stating that it's perfectly fine to exaggerate ( LIE ) about the impact of AGW, THAT'S POLITICS, not science.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 7:16 PM

BYTEMITE


*Siiiigh*

When have I exaggerated, AU?

Look, the fact that there are two wildly different stories here, both apocalyptic in scope in directly opposite directions, suggests a strong degree of manipulation from both sides.

It's either "AGW will destroy the world" or "AGW is fake and a conspiracy to destroy the capitalist economy for a socialist takeover." On this issue there's no in-between, and there SHOULD be.

I hate being told what to do as much as anyone, and giving any entity too much power is always a bad idea. But at some point benefits of cleaner power will far exceed the costs of implementing them, and as average citizens sustainability and self-sufficiency is something you should already be doing to be less dependent upon the grid. Plus less pollution means everyone benefits. I don't see why this is even an argument.

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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 7:22 PM

THGRRI


OK auraptor a question.

What if just for the sake of argument , Global Warming is real? Would you think we may have a problem here?

si shen



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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 7:31 PM

REAVERFAN



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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 7:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
*Siiiigh*

When have I exaggerated, AU?



Are you a scientist who has said it's ok to exaggerate ? I wasn't talking about you.

ETA - http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/041614-697487-alarmists-embel
lish-facts-to-scare-public-about-climate-change.htm


Quote:



Look, the fact that there are two wildly different stories here, both apocalyptic in scope in directly opposite directions, suggests a strong degree of manipulation from both sides.



I respectfully disagree. The Left are lying and the Right are... well, not doing their due diligence to defend themselves, imo. And why yes, they COULD do more to engaged in the debate, the Right is simply allowing ignorance on the topic to run roughshod by the Left. We don't know, and that's the point. The Left uses that as a fear mongering tool, while the Right just dithers. To the impartial, dumb-masses, the Left looks all the more motivated and unified, so they appear to give a better sales job.

Quote:



It's either "AGW will destroy the world" or "AGW is fake and a conspiracy to destroy the capitalist economy for a socialist takeover." On this issue there's no in-between, and there SHOULD be.



Well, you DO have Hugo Chavez talking in Copenhagen. And you DO have radical Leftists , calling for the mere act of denial of AGW to be a crime, punishable by throwing people in JAIL.

100% political there. Bat shit crazy.

Quote:



I hate being told what to do as much as anyone, and giving any entity too much power is always a bad idea. But at some point benefits of cleaner power will far exceed the costs of implementing them, and as average citizens sustainability and self-sufficiency is something you should already be doing to be less dependent upon the grid. Plus less pollution means everyone benefits. I don't see why this is even an argument.



Cleaner power, as being sold by the AGW types, is a pipe dream. It's snake oil, and WISHING it were true doesn't make it so.

There are better ways. Far better ways than unicorn poots and pixie dust to run our cars, factories and light our homes.

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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 10:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


In their abstract, Hong and Zhao note that "it appears that news media and some pro-environmental organizations have the tendency to accentuate or even exaggerate the damage caused by climate change."


Scientists however? The IPCC? Apparently not. That's why it's always good to read actual published papers and compilations.





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, June 17, 2014 11:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Yep. Sure does help to read in full. Like how I said that scientists think it's ok to exaggerate, as was shown by my linked story.

Not that THEY exaggerate, but it's ok for others.

Unless you're Michael Mann, who flat out makes shit up.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2014 12:19 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


What does this have to do with scientists saying the Antarctic ice shelf is being eroded by the ocean?

"Science is a tool , nothing more. It's the misapplication of it, and politicizing that often goes along , that many mistrust."

And where did you get these figures? And if they weren't based on data, how would you respond if the melting was 90% due to global warming?

"So if the melting is 90% due to the geothermal the remaining 10% is a crisis ?"





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2014 12:20 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


dbl

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Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
What does this have to do with scientists saying the Antarctic ice shelf is being eroded by the ocean?

"Science is a tool , nothing more. It's the misapplication of it, and politicizing that often goes along , that many mistrust."

And where did you get these figures? And if they weren't based on data, how would you respond if the melting was 90% due to global warming?

"So if the melting is 90% due to the geothermal the remaining 10% is a crisis ?"



They're not , nor were they intended to be taken as actual figures, but instead were for examples sake. Like YOUR use of 90% due to global warming. Thanks for making my point for me. We do NOT know how much one or the other is influencing the melt. But we DO know that the is antarctic extent is as large was we've ever seen it. That much we DO know.

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Wednesday, June 18, 2014 9:43 AM

BYTEMITE


(Morpheus meme)

What if I told you...

That the lead scientist behind the study you're quoting has clarified that the shelf collapse is more due to warming oceans than geothermal activity?

https://news.vice.com/article/no-volcanoes-are-not-the-primary-cause-f
or-the-melting-ice-caps

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Wednesday, June 18, 2014 10:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"What if I told you...

That the lead scientist behind the study you're quoting has clarified that the shelf collapse is more due to warming oceans than geothermal activity?"

Rappy would run and hide.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, December 19, 2021 3:20 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Maybe the headline is slightly alarmist but this climate change thing is happening ...5 yr melt of a big lump of ice coming

Scientists watch giant ‘doomsday’ glacier in Antarctica with concern
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/18/scientists-watch-giant-d
oomsday-glacier-in-antarctica-with-concern


Half a Meter more sea, 1.64 feet, it will by itself raise the level of the world's oceans by ½ a meter.





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Monday, December 20, 2021 1:00 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
When I hear of a 15-20 feet sea level rise, it's if Greenland melted. Greenland is far more likely to melt than the icecaps, as Antarctica is still around 37 below in the winter and the north pole in winter is about -34 degrees on average.

EDIT: Here, here's some wikipedia.
Quote:

In January 2006, in a UK government-commissioned report, the head of the British Antarctic Survey, Chris Rapley, warned that this huge west Antarctic ice sheet may be starting to disintegrate. It has been hypothesised that this disintegration could raise sea levels by approximately 3.3 metres (10 ft).[9] (If the entire West Antarctic Ice Sheet were to melt, this would contribute 4.8 m to global sea level.)


So it's not 15 feet plus another 15 to 20 feet. It's ten feet in total if the whole thing disintegrated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Antarctic_Ice_Sheet

Obviously, the Fake News Fake Science Fiction Global Climate Warming Change must really be true!!

Before the Fake Science, the average elevation for the entire state of Florida was 20 feet above Sea Level. And Miami had an average elevation of 6 feet above Sea Level.

Now that we are constantly hearing that 90% of Florida is gone, completely submerged, and also Miami has sunk into the ocean, we all know that all of this Fake Junk Science really, really, really is true.


I wonder what the detractors say is the amount of inches the oceans have risen since this thread was started, or since algore invented this Global Climate Warming Change crisis.

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