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UPDATED: Monday, November 4, 2024 05:29
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Monday, May 31, 2021 11:20 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:


In your efforts to ignore reality, you have forgotten the key term: INTERNATIONAL AVIATION LANGUAGE, not local language.
Calibration units are not discussed mid-air, and have nothing to do with flight control units.
The ICAO language standard adopted in 1951 was in Chicago.

I guess that means that ICAO language must be in Chicagoan, because clearly they don't speak English in Chicago, just as we don't speak English in America, we speak "American".

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Monday, May 31, 2021 11:30 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
In your efforts to ignore reality, you have forgotten the key term: INTERNATIONAL AVIATION LANGUAGE, not local language.
Calibration units are not discussed mid-air, and have nothing to do with flight control units.
The ICAO language standard adopted in 1951 was in Chicago.

I guess that means that ICAO language must be in Chicagoan, because clearly they don't speak English in Chicago, just as we don't speak English in America, we speak "American".

gangsta is spoken in all major cities in America, not just Chicago. Some call it ghetto. I hear that version of Chicagoan, I have not understood it yet, and don't have much interest in learning.

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Monday, May 31, 2021 11:48 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Your proclamation that International Aviation speaks American English solely at the declaration of Britain is preposterous.

YOUR proclamation that English was chosen at the declaration of Britain is a preposterous translation of my point.

First of all, ICAO English is so limited that it's doubtful that any of those quirky differences between British English and American English would even show up. I doubt they talk about lifting the bonnet of an airplane to see what's wrong, or fueling up with petrol.

Secondly, aviation development occurred all over the world, not just in the USA. All you have to do is watch the history of WWI and WWII planes to realize that the French developed very credible aircraft, as well British, Germans, Americans, and Russians.

The choice of English as the international "lingua Franca" wasn't based on who flew the first airplane or who had the most advanced designs, it was based on American might after the end of WWII, where we speak ... English.

And let's say by some weird quirk of fate that it had been Russia with the greatest international reach at the end of WWII. English would prolly STILL have been the language of choice because it was historically spoken ... everywhere. With a few colonial exceptions like French colonies in Africa, Lebanon, and Vietnam, and some Dutch-speaking former colonies (South Africa, Namibia, Indonesia, and some Caribbean islands) the British left their bootprints and their language almost everywhere.

Including here.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Tuesday, June 1, 2021 2:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIGNYM:
UKRAINE did not receive the emailed threat, UKRAINE didn't know about it, thereforethey couldn't do anything about it. It was sent directly to Vilnius, Lithuania.

Minsk, Belarus was cc:d, at least according to the email service.

Why didn't VILNIUS (LITHUANIA) do anything about it

JSF: As I explained, what could Vilnius do? Vilnius (or Lithuania ATC) had to wait for the plane to switch to their frequency - which the plane was about to do, before being diverted to the farthest airport available. Lithuania cannot switch to the Minsk frequency to interlope on those transmissions.
As soon as the pilot switched to the frequency for Lithuania, they could have been diverted to Kaunas airport - no muss, no fuss.

So, even tho the plane was just entering Belarus when the threat was received, and was STILL over Belarus when the plane was diverted, you're saying that Vilnius ATC should have taken over control of the airplane while it was in Belarus' airspace?

Or are you saying that Belarus should have done NOTHING and allowed the plane to enter Lithuanian airspace without knowing whether Vilnius ATC had even responded to the threat?

Was there communication between Minsk ATC and Vilnius ATC, where a hand-off would have been even possible? I don't know. YOU don't know.

But you get stuck on irrelevant points and make ignorant suggestions. ONLY AN INVESTIGATION CAN TELL US WHAT HAPPENED.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Tuesday, June 1, 2021 3:01 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I agree with KIKI. JSF, you're ASSUMING that it was Belarus that sent the email.

But who benefited from this in the long run?

The west deep state, which was able to use this event to insist on YET MORE sanctions on, and interfering with a Russian partner. (And trust me, they'll eventually be extended to Russia too.)

This parallels the alleged Navalny "poisoning", which was in all likelihood a false flag.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.



Ok, so I want to get to this point.

The email was probably a setup, but who sent it?

There are at least two possibilities.

The first is that Belarus sent it in order to give themselves the excuse to divert the plane and arrest two passengers. But, yanno, the email was so clumsy, demanding (among other things) a ceasefire in Gaza which has already been implemented that its authenticity immediately came into question. If the Belarussians had crafted it... or maybe even those dirty dastardly evil geniuses in Russia ... why be so clumsy? Wouldn't they have crafted a much more convincing email? Either those Russkies and their partners are evil geniuses who should be feared 24/7/365 or they're ... not.

But, even less-credible bomb threats must be taken seriously. You can't just roll the dice and say ..."what the hell, we're gonna let this one go because we don't believe it".

Another possibility is that the USA CIA crafted it. And altho that may sound counter-intutitive, they could be following this logic:

Roman Protasevich was a worth-less asset. He was supposed to set up protests and regime change in Belarus but he ... failed. However, there was one other way that he could be of value to the USA CIA, and that would be as a patsy ... set up to be arrested, causing another "incident" which Belarus could be tarred with. So they arranged for him to meet with Ambassador Pyatt in Greece (yes, that Ambassador that oversaw the toppling of the elected government of Ukraine), put him on a flight to Vilnius, wrote some clumsy bomb threats timed and addressed to hit the ATCs just before Ryaniar entered Belarus' airspaceand just before it left it, so that Belarus was the only ATC authorized to respond, and let him get arrested.

This is the same scenario as Alexei Navalny. Now, that whole "poisoning" scenario just doesn't fly. If he was poisoned by Russians, why did they use such an ineffective poison when so much more effective ones were available in Russian territory? Why did they let him fly to Germany for treatment? Why did Germany refuse to share samples with Russia?

Navalny was another worth-less asset. He was supposed to drum up huge protests in Russia and cause Big Trouble for Putin. But he ... failed. However, there was a little more value that the west could squeeze out of him, and that was to claim that he was poisoned in Russia, throwing him under the bus in their little false flag operation and making him the "victim". (Yanno, with allies like that, I can understand why he went back to Russia to be arrested ... he prolly felt safer in Russian jail!)

Anyway, those are two scenarios to think about. There are a few more floating around in my brain but these are the most interesting.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Tuesday, June 1, 2021 5:45 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Seems the Belarus news blogger’s parents urge action they want the EU or USA to save him, as Biden mulls sanctions

Biden won’t cancel Putin summit over meat company hack: White House
https://nypost.com/2021/06/01/biden-wont-nix-putin-summit-over-meat-co
mpany-hack-white-house
/

Russia opposition politician held on plane
https://thewest.com.au/news/crime/russia-opposition-politician-held-on
-plane-c-2991916

Opposition Party Removed from Poland-Bound Plane, Detained by Police

Belarusian opposition activist slits throat in court, citing threats to family

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/belarus-activist-court
-slit-throat-b1857683.html
?

Stepan Latypov rose from the dock, took off his mask, drew a sharp object – apparently a pen – and buried it deep into his throat.

In the moments beforehand, Mr Latypov had shouted to his father he had been warned that family and neighbours would be persecuted if he did not stand up in court and oblige with the customary guilty confession. He also claimed authorities had placed him in a punishment cell for the past seven weeks.
The judge quickly ordered the court in Minsk to be emptied but the effort to save Mr Latypov was chaotic – hampered by the fact he was locked in the caged dock typical of courts across the former Soviet Union.


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Wednesday, June 2, 2021 2:47 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

SIGNYM:
UKRAINE did not receive the emailed threat, UKRAINE didn't know about it, thereforethey couldn't do anything about it. It was sent directly to Vilnius, Lithuania.

Minsk, Belarus was cc:d, at least according to the email service.

Why didn't VILNIUS (LITHUANIA) do anything about it

JSF: As I explained, what could Vilnius do? Vilnius (or Lithuania ATC) had to wait for the plane to switch to their frequency - which the plane was about to do, before being diverted to the farthest airport available. Lithuania cannot switch to the Minsk frequency to interlope on those transmissions.
As soon as the pilot switched to the frequency for Lithuania, they could have been diverted to Kaunas airport - no muss, no fuss.

So, even tho the plane was just entering Belarus when the threat was received, and was STILL over Belarus when the plane was diverted, you're saying that Vilnius ATC should have taken over control of the airplane while it was in Belarus' airspace?

Or are you saying that Belarus should have done NOTHING and allowed the plane to enter Lithuanian airspace without knowing whether Vilnius ATC had even responded to the threat?

Was there communication between Minsk ATC and Vilnius ATC, where a hand-off would have been even possible? I don't know. YOU don't know.

But you get stuck on irrelevant points and make ignorant suggestions. ONLY AN INVESTIGATION CAN TELL US WHAT HAPPENED.

I don't understand why you are trying so hard to confuse yourself.

At 12:28 local time, the pilots switched to the frequency for the upcoming new airspace of Belarus, based at Minsk because that is the only commercial airport in Belarus on Sunday. Even though Ryanair does not have any regularly scheduled flights stopping in Belarus except Brest, which Belarus claimed was closed on Sunday. The Gomel airport is only an alternative airport. The Grodno and Brest airports were reportedly closed on Sunday.
At 12:30 the flight crossed into Belarus airspace.
At 12:31 the ATC informs there was a bomb threat via email.
For the next 15 minutes, the flight profile does not change direction, altitude, or airspeed. Some questions are asked about this topic, but ATC is not highly forthcoming.

Normally, it takes 18 minutes to traverse Belarus airspace in a line from Athens to Vilnius.

At 12:46, minutes (6 miles away, at 540mph, or 9 miles per min) before escaping Belarus airspace, the flight begins a U-turn as part of a Holding Pattern, establishing a heading back towards Athens. By the time this reversal of direction was accomplished, they could have been already into Lithuania, and turning left to keep distance from Vilnius.

This, despite a far more direct route to Kaunas airport (where most of the daily flights are Ryanair), even giving wide berth to Vilnius, and the fact that the only airport in Belarus has any scheduled flights via Ryanair was Brest, which was closed and even farther away than Minsk.

There is no such normal occurrence of synchronized hand-offs from one ATC to another. The Air Traffic Controller is not to direct how pilots are supposed to fly in open airspace, just help them not collide with other aircraft, inform them of other aircraft, update weather issues, and help them transition to another ATC within the regional ATC, like for landing instructions via Tower ATC.

If not intercepted by fighter, they could have contacted Lithuanian ATC before they started their holding pattern.
IF Lithuania was unaware of the situation, the pilots would have been able to immediately inform them and then request Kaunas airport for landing.
As is, Lithuania ATC would have had them already on RADAR (flight plan filed in Athens would have alerted all ATCs in the flight path, and they were on time for their regularly scheduled arrival), and likely wondered what was the weird maneuvering to avoid escaping the Belarus border.


It does not matter if Vilnius had "responded to the threat" or not. The plane had plenty of fuel to fly to any airport in Lithuania deemed prudent.



Are you discounting the reports that there were KGB Agents ON BOARD the flight, and as soon as entering Belarus airspace, they instigated a fight with the flight crew and insisted there was an IED on board? And then Minsk airport told Lithuania Airports that the flight was redirected "because of a conflict between a member of the crew and one of the passengers."

Or how Roman explained to his nearby seated passengers that "this was a death penalty"


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Friday, November 19, 2021 7:01 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Muslims, criminals and refugees and illegal invader Immigration suddenly at the Poland Belarus Border

Belarus-Poland border: Putin warns Belarus over gas threat to EU
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59274351

Poland turns water cannon, tear gas on migrants at Belarus border
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20211116-belarus-leader-lukashenko-
says-he-wants-to-avoid-confrontation-in-migrant-standoff-at-polish-border


Swedish and Germans helping illegal jihadi alien invasion?
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2021/11/10/swedes-german-among-foreig
ners-arrested-for-aiding-illegal-immigration-polish-border
/

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Sunday, February 27, 2022 1:55 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Ukraine, Russia diplomats to meet on Belarus border
https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/ukraine-russia-diplomats-to-meet-o
n-belarus-border
/

A Ukrainian official says Iskander missiles launched from Belarus to Ukraine
https://www.sabcnews.com/ukrainian-official-says-iskander-missiles-lau
nched-from-belarus-to-ukraine
/

Ukraine Agrees to Meet for Negotiations With Russia at Belarus Border
https://truthout.org/articles/ukraine-agrees-to-meet-for-negotiations-
with-russia-at-belarus-border
/

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Wednesday, August 2, 2023 5:06 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Belarus helicopters entered Poland’s airspace as provocation

https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-belarus-helicopters-entered-pol
ish-airspace-provocation-onet-report/amp
/

the topic of the thread

Quote:

Ryanair Flight 4978 was a regularly scheduled international passenger flight from Athens International Airport, Greece, to Vilnius Airport, Lithuania, operated by the Polish subsidiary Buzz. On 23 May 2021, while in Belarusian airspace, it was diverted by the Belarusian government to Minsk National Airport, where two of its passengers, opposition activist and journalist Roman Protasevich and his girlfriend Sofia Sapega, were arrested by authorities. The aircraft was allowed to depart after seven hours, reaching Vilnius eight and a half hours behind schedule.

The act was condemned by the European Union (EU), NATO, the United Kingdom, and the United States, among others, and by some civil aviation authorities, while Russian officials backed Belarus. The EU and the European Union Aviation Safety Agency issued directives halting European airlines from flying over Belarusian airspace.



Upon landing in Minsk, the Belarusian opposition activist Roman Protasevich was removed from the aircraft and arrested on the grounds that he was listed on a Belarusian wanted list.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210523122730/https://www.dw.com/en/belar
us-opposition-says-government-forced-ryanair-plane-to-land-to-arrest-journalist/a-57635240



The aircraft was allowed to depart after 7 hours on the ground in Minsk, reaching Vilnius 8.5 hours late. Passengers noted having to wait 2.5 hours without water, toilet breaks or phone calls, while 50 to 60 Belarusian security officers at Minsk airport carried out a search that included checking the belly of the aircraft for bombs.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210524010604/https://www.bloomberg.com/n
ews/articles/2021-05-24/how-belarus-snatched-a-dissident-off-a-ryanair-plane-from-greece


On 3 May 2023, he was sentenced to eight years in prison.
However, on 22 May, it was announced that Protasevich had been pardoned.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/05/03/belarus-dissident-blogger-ro
man-protasevich-sentenced-to-8-years-in-prison-a81022


and then a current war

paragraph 10 of the United Nations General Assembly Resolution of 2 March 2022 confirmed the involvement of Belarus in unlawful use of force against Ukraine

Belarusian involvement in the Russian invasion of Ukraine

https://web.archive.org/web/20220225230050/https://www.ft.com/content/
875bd999-1feb-4e2d-9455-30653a63a071



On 16 June 2021, representatives of the Luhansk People's Republic declared that Roman Protasevich had been "interrogated". The Ukrainian embassy in Minsk asked Belarusian authorities for an official explanation

https://www.bbc.com/ukrainian/news-57499943

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Saturday, October 5, 2024 1:34 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Lithuania refers Belarus to the ICC, alleging crimes against humanity over opposition crackdown

https://apnews.com/article/icc-lithuania-belarus-court-lukashenko-regi
me-44c222283c9d0f5529a3b8ee6e8d416f

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Monday, November 4, 2024 5:29 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

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