Quote:

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Um, Granny? We already had this conversation and I already corrected your intended insults ("Daddy's business..."), or don't you remember?- GSTRING

link please. I recall you saying that both your parents had Alzheimer's/ dementia, and when I expressed my sympathy you (of course) pissed on it. Other than that ... ? - SIGNY

Riiiight... you said the planet would be better off without me (and others) and "I'm coming for you!" so spare me your fake concern. You're a conceited, me-first arse hat, plain and simple.- GSTRING

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
For one in two Americans, those in the bottom half of the income pile, income actually shrank on Reagan’s watch. In 1980, the year he was elected, they earned $16,371 a year on average, in today’s dollars, according to the World Wealth and Income Database. By 1988, Reagan’s last year in office, they had to make do with $16,268.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/26/business/economy/tax-cuts-incomes.h
tml

T

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
For one in two Americans, those in the bottom half of the income pile, income actually shrank on Reagan’s watch. In 1980, the year he was elected, they earned $16,371 a year on average, in today’s dollars, according to the World Wealth and Income Database. By 1988, Reagan’s last year in office, they had to make do with $16,268.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/26/business/economy/tax-cuts-incomes.h
tml

T

---

Well Shazaam! That must be why he was reelected in a landslide, which Democraps have never seen with their party.
Perhaps you could provide a reliable, credible news source, instead of hanging your hat on The Libtard's Gospel.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

---

I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.

---

That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12

Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

---

I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.

---

That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12

Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

---

Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

---

I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.

---

That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12

Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

---

Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.

---

On face value, this definitely doesn't seem to be the horror show that some people were claiming it was. Any word yet on what the 2019 situation forward is going to look like? I don't want to be saying everything is a-okay when we've been duped by a good first year trojan horse.

lol... I still don't believe that the single guy without kids is getting a tax break. This sounds waaaaaaay too good to be true. Since when does Government reward responsibility?

Do you know anything about EIC in 2018? Do single parents with 4 kids now make 3 times as much as I do instead of only twice as much for the same job?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

---

I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.

---

That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12

Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

---

Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.

---

On face value, this definitely doesn't seem to be the horror show that some people were claiming it was. Any word yet on what the 2019 situation forward is going to look like? I don't want to be saying everything is a-okay when we've been duped by a good first year trojan horse.

lol... I still don't believe that the single guy without kids is getting a tax break. This sounds waaaaaaay too good to be true. Since when does Government reward responsibility?

Do you know anything about EIC in 2018? Do single parents with 4 kids now make 3 times as much as I do instead of only twice as much for the same job?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

I only got data from the link you gave.
Maybe Tax Cut is too confusing. I meant pay increase.

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Quote:

---

If the Trump administration’s America First budget plan for 2018 ever gets approved as proposed, anyone claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) or the Child Tax Credit (CTC) would face a new requirement: They must have a Social Security number and be legally authorized to work in the U.S.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Looks like the EIC will still be in effect. I don't know how much it changes though, since I never really paid all that much attention other than filing for the pittance I got. The cap for an individual without kids seems on par with what it used to be.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-c
redit/eitc-income-limits-maximum-credit-amounts-next-year

So I guess even though you're not claiming dependents, you're still claiming dependents.



I do like this, although I don't know if it is passed in the bill:

Quote:

---

If the Trump administration’s America First budget plan for 2018 ever gets approved as proposed, anyone claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) or the Child Tax Credit (CTC) would face a new requirement: They must have a Social Security number and be legally authorized to work in the U.S.

---

http://fileyourtaxesnow.com/2018-earned-income-tax-credit-eitc/

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Looks like the EIC will still be in effect. I don't know how much it changes though, since I never really paid all that much attention other than filing for the pittance I got. The cap for an individual without kids seems on par with what it used to be.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-c
redit/eitc-income-limits-maximum-credit-amounts-next-year

So I guess even though you're not claiming dependents, you're still claiming dependents.



I do like this, although I don't know if it is passed in the bill:

Quote:

---

If the Trump administration’s America First budget plan for 2018 ever gets approved as proposed, anyone claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) or the Child Tax Credit (CTC) would face a new requirement: They must have a Social Security number and be legally authorized to work in the U.S.

---

http://fileyourtaxesnow.com/2018-earned-income-tax-credit-eitc/

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

I have not seen this. So working people get no deduction for kids, but pothead couch potato gamers get paid to not work based on how many kids they have?
Not sure of the wisdom there.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
For one in two Americans, those in the bottom half of the income pile, income actually shrank on Reagan’s watch. In 1980, the year he was elected, they earned $16,371 a year on average, in today’s dollars, according to the World Wealth and Income Database. By 1988, Reagan’s last year in office, they had to make do with $16,268.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/26/business/eco
nomy/tax-cuts-incomes.html

T

---

Well Shazaam! That must be why he was reelected in a landslide, which Democraps have never seen with their party.
Perhaps you could provide a reliable, credible news source, instead of hanging your hat on The Libtard's Gospel.

---

I am unable to navigate that wid database.
Can you tell me the numbers they use for 1981, 1982, 1983 - the end of the devastating Carter Economy?
Six, could you help getting those numbers?

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Quote:

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"CLEARLY, you don't give a crap about being laid off or eking out a living as a free-lancer. My guess is that you're working in your daddy's company in a comfy middle-management niche where you can while away the hours posting on Firefly and endlessly checking your Twitter feed. But be that as it may ... "

Does that jog your *memory* at all? Care to apologize for your blatant lying? Care to own your BULLSHIT now? Ever?- GSTRING

---

Quote:

---

Um, Granny? We already had this conversation and I already corrected your intended insults ("Daddy's business...") ...

---

Quote:

---

My "daddy" is dead btw.- GSTRING

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by G:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
LINKS PLEASE?

You may have inherited your daddy's money, but none of his smarts, because you attempted to pull off a really stupid lie by saying that "We already had this conversation". No, son, we didn't. So either YOUR memory is bad, or you're a liar. I vote "liar".

---

Hey, $IGNYM FRAUD, lookie what I found from Dec 5th - I told you you tried that sh*t before:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62106&mid=1
042482#1042482

"CLEARLY, you don't give a crap about being laid off or eking out a living as a free-lancer. My guess is that you're working in your daddy's company in a comfy middle-management niche where you can while away the hours posting on Firefly and endlessly checking your Twitter feed. But be that as it may ... "

Does that jog your *memory* at all? Care to apologize for your blatant lying? Care to own your BULLSHIT now? Ever?

I doubt it! But I look forward to you embarrassing yourself with the upcoming dodges, BS rationals and further Trump level lies.

---

Quote:

---

Um, Granny? We already had this conversation and I already corrected your intended insults ("Daddy's business...") ...

---

Quote:

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Did you post a denial, limitation, or correction to any of those suppositions? No? - SIGNY

Yes - you must be deaf, dumb and blind:

"So you can't deflect with it again:

I'm definitely not rich, not financially by any definition. I spent most of my life dead ass broke, kinda like Jack. Any inheritance from "daddy" went first to my deadbeat brother (more than a decade without trying to work) and second to take care of my mom - something any intelligent person who genuinely cared and not "fake cared" would have been able to deduce.

---

Quote:

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Especially someone with a health concern in their own family. That's not you in either case though, is it?"- GSTRING

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Quote:

---

This conversation in unbelievably stupid, and I think the problem is at your end. So until you come up with an actual meaningful response, I'm going to bow out.- SIGNY

Yes, it's incredibly stupid. "I" lied and were caught and then trolled to deflect from "my" grotesque wealth and now "I" will runaway. - GSTRING

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Quote:

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Oh yeah.... stepping around your steaming pile of SIGNMY deflection droppings... you still haven't told us about your massive stock pile of wealth - why is that? I would imagine someone as full of themselves as you is having a hard time NOT telling us how great your investment strategies have been. Just let it go, be proud - celebrate you wise investments and superior knowledge and share with us. - GSTRING

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Quote:

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Apparently, I missed the one post where you mentioned something about taking care of your mom. (Assuming that you're not lying about that too.) - SIGNY

Goddamn - are you lying about your Daughter? You keep rolling out the passive aggressive insults and I'll keep flinging them back in your face, a-wipe.- GSTRGING

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Quote:

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And, as I do with some of your posts, I guess I missed this one. Well gosh, whip me with a wet noodle.- SIGNY

OR you could not call someone a liar when you haven't read their posts? Duh?= GSTRING

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Quote:

---

So, you're not wealthy "financially", and yet you spend all hours of the day trolling on Firefly..."- SIGNY

If I do, then you spend 72 hours in one day - you post more than anyone but Jack. Takes 2 minutes to roll my eyes and reply to your BS.- GSTRING

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Quote:

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... and you apparently think that the employment situation here in the USA is A-OK?"- SIGNY

Yep, there are tons of jobs out there if you want one.- GSTRINGi

You have NO IDEA about the difficulty of finding and keeping a decent-paying full time job?" - SIGNY

Not first hand, I haven't had to look for work in decades. I must be a valued employee.- GSTRING

---

Quote:

---

You have no idea that a record number of children are living with mom and dad?- SIGNY
Cites please - GSTRING

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Quote:

---

As you've pointed out, I post a lot about myself, and I've already touched on this: We worked hard at technical jobs- one in university and one in government, very safe jobs but not extremely well-paid - and saved like maniacs for the time when we would die and our daughter would be on her own. We made less money together than a successful doctor would make on his or her own in this area. Some of our investments did great, some of them not so much. We're neither rich nor poor, and definitely not 1%. Maybe more like top 20% - there are an awful lot of very wealthy people in LA County, and we're definitely not one of them.- SIGNY

Who cares what you make - you're a lying @sshole - that's what matters.

---

Quote:

---

Seriously? YOUR memory must be failing! Or you're lying again. It was a pretty long conversation about what constitutes "employment". Okay, son, I'll dig it up. - SIGNY

What?!?!? All that phony righteous outrage and YOU DON'T KNOW???? hahahahahah geezus, stop typing.- GSTRING

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

---

I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.

---

That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12

Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

---

Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.

---

On face value, this definitely doesn't seem to be the horror show that some people were claiming it was. Any word yet on what the 2019 situation forward is going to look like? I don't want to be saying everything is a-okay when we've been duped by a good first year trojan horse.

lol... I still don't believe that the single guy without kids is getting a tax break. This sounds waaaaaaay too good to be true. Since when does Government reward responsibility?

Do you know anything about EIC in 2018? Do single parents with 4 kids now make 3 times as much as I do instead of only twice as much for the same job?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

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I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.

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That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12

Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

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Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.

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On face value, this definitely doesn't seem to be the horror show that some people were claiming it was. Any word yet on what the 2019 situation forward is going to look like? I don't want to be saying everything is a-okay when we've been duped by a good first year trojan horse.

lol... I still don't believe that the single guy without kids is getting a tax break. This sounds waaaaaaay too good to be true. Since when does Government reward responsibility?

Do you know anything about EIC in 2018? Do single parents with 4 kids now make 3 times as much as I do instead of only twice as much for the same job?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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If you find and post a link for the 2019 Tax brackets as they stand now, I will run some numbers for you, as time allows.
The incomes I used above were at the thresholds of the new brackets, so the results between my examples should fairly run predictably. Let me know if there are other specific income examples you would want.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12
]Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.

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On face value, this definitely doesn't seem to be the horror show that some people were claiming it was. Any word yet on what the 2019 situation forward is going to look like? I don't want to be saying everything is a-okay when we've been duped by a good first year trojan horse.

lol... I still don't believe that the single guy without kids is getting a tax break. This sounds waaaaaaay too good to be true. Since when does Government reward responsibility?

Do you know anything about EIC in 2018? Do single parents with 4 kids now make 3 times as much as I do instead of only twice as much for the same job?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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If you find and post a link for the 2019 Tax brackets as they stand now, I will run some numbers for you, as time allows.
The incomes I used above were at the thresholds of the new brackets, so the results between my examples should fairly run predictably. Let me know if there are other specific income examples you would want.

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I don't think you can find any tax tables for 2018 yet. They usually don't print them that far in advance. (A google search shows plenty results for articles saying what the brackets will be, but no actual tables provided by the IRS).

I only asked because I've heard a few articles saying that the first year wasn't bad, but after that it got worse. But you know my trust in the media. I hate thinking I have to wait over a year before I can make my own mind up about it though.

It looks like the EIC welfare program doesn't change much.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
If you post a link to the brackets that you consider valid, that is good enough for me. They are already part of existing law - of course subject to change. But it will give us an idea of what the landscape and roadmap is as of now.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
If you post a link to the brackets that you consider valid, that is good enough for me. They are already part of existing law - of course subject to change. But it will give us an idea of what the landscape and roadmap is as of now.

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https://taxfoundation.org/2018-tax-brackets/

That's for 2018. Pretty much what we were talking about. Though this link is nice because it shows the AMT and EIC brackets as well.

I'm wondering what they are going to be for 2019. I've heard some people here complain that it is worse for the working class in 2019, but I don't see any evidence of that because I can't find anything on it.


NOTE: Anybody looking at those tables should keep in mind that for the tax brackets you need to add $12,000 to the numbers for a single filer, 18,000 for head of household and $24,000 for married filing jointly before the taxes kick in.

For instance, a single person making $24,524.99 or less doesn't pay a dime in Federal Income Tax. (However, they're still royally screwed from the first penny to the last on the SSI/Medicare taxes, of 7.65% for employees, and 15.30% for self employed. Just look at it as 15.30% for everybody. Your employer does.)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

NOTE: Anybody looking at those tables should keep in mind that for the tax brackets you need to add $12,000 to the numbers for a single filer, 18,000 for head of household and $24,000 for married filing jointly before the taxes kick in.

For instance, a single person making $24,524.99 or less doesn't pay a dime in Federal Income Tax. (However, they're still royally screwed from the first penny to the last on the SSI/Medicare taxes, of 7.65% for employees, and 15.30% for self employed. Just look at it as 15.30% for everybody. Your employer does.)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow...

Major correction needed here. I can't believe nobody called me out on this.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

NOTE: Anybody looking at those tables should keep in mind that for the tax brackets you need to add $12,000 to the numbers for a single filer, 18,000 for head of household and $24,000 for married filing jointly before the taxes kick in.

For instance, a single person making $24,524.99 or less doesn't pay a dime in Federal Income Tax. (However, they're still royally screwed from the first penny to the last on the SSI/Medicare taxes, of 7.65% for employees, and 15.30% for self employed. Just look at it as 15.30% for everybody. Your employer does.)

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HUGE brainfart on that underlined part.

A single person making $11,999.99 or under doesn't pay a dime. After that, it's 10%. Once that same person hits $25,000, everything they make above $25k will be hit with an additional 2%.

If you're making enough to get hit with 22% (above $50,700 for a single filer), save as much of that as you can because you never know when you're going to lose that nice job. You should also be sheltering as much of it as possible in 401ks, IRAs and HSAs as you can.


Sure... you'd get hit with a 10% fine if you take it out early, but even anything you put in above $12k a year you avoid 10% in federal taxes so it's even. If you're putting money in to dodge 22% you're actually making 12% when you take it out (assuming you take it out when you no longer have that job and your income is low or non-existant).

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
If you're in the 10% bracket and have access to a 401k and a company match, and can afford to, you really should put the money in there. Even if it just sits there doing nothing in a safe fund.

The 10% you dodge would cancel out the 10% penalty, so you would immediately get whatever percentage that the company matches, which in almost any case should be a multitude greater than any savings account or even a CD where you're really locked in.


At 22%, it's a no brainer. Sure, not only would you have to pay a 10% penalty on top of the 22% income tax if you took it out at a later date while you still had the same job, but if you lose that job you'll have the money to draw under $12k as income you won't be taxed on and it will just be the 10% penalty, netting you a 12% return plus your company match.

Also, if you've never used it before even if you've bought a house, you can take up to $10k one single time in your life out of a 401k/IRA penalty free to purchase a home under the "First Time Homeowner" clause.

It's really a good idea to always put in what your company will match, so long as you're making more than the deductible/exemption and you can afford to do so. No other investment in this current economy has such safe and reliable returns or possibilities.

(NOTE: The above statement is only if you don't gamble with it. You're on your own if you do that. My investment advice is only for putting it somewhere safe, in a low bearing fund. The closer to zero, the better.)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Do you have any for 2019? I can't find any.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Repeals the moving expense deduction (except for active duty military personnel) and eliminates the alimony deduction effective 2019 (though those receiving alimony no longer count it as income). Retains other above-the-line deductions, including educator expenses and student loan interest. Graduate student tuition waivers also remain in place.

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Here, then, are the major provisions of the conference committee report. All figures (both current law and conference report provisions) are for 2018. Most individual income tax changes will revert to current law after 2025 unless extended.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm not finding what you're talking about. You'd have to tell me the article title maybe?

I did see this: https://taxfoundation.org/conference-report-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act/

About above the line deductions:

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Repeals the moving expense deduction (except for active duty military personnel) and eliminates the alimony deduction effective 2019 (though those receiving alimony no longer count it as income). Retains other above-the-line deductions, including educator expenses and student loan interest. Graduate student tuition waivers also remain in place.

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The poor schmucks that have to pay alimony will now have to pay Federal Tax on it to add insult and injury to insult and injury. But the ones sitting on their ass doing nothing for the money won't have to pay income tax on it anymore. Yay.

It also says this at the top:

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Here, then, are the major provisions of the conference committee report. All figures (both current law and conference report provisions) are for 2018. Most individual income tax changes will revert to current law after 2025 unless extended.

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I don't know if that means that we'll go back to a standard deduction and personal exemption in 2025 or not.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm not finding what you're talking about. You'd have to tell me the article title maybe?

I did see this: https://taxfoundation.org/conference-report-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act/

About above the line deductions:

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Repeals the moving expense deduction (except for active duty military personnel) and eliminates the alimony deduction effective 2019 (though those receiving alimony no longer count it as income). Retains other above-the-line deductions, including educator expenses and student loan interest. Graduate student tuition waivers also remain in place.

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The poor schmucks that have to pay alimony will now have to pay Federal Tax on it to add insult and injury to insult and injury. But the ones sitting on their ass doing nothing for the money won't have to pay income tax on it anymore. Yay.

It also says this at the top:

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Here, then, are the major provisions of the conference committee report. All figures (both current law and conference report provisions) are for 2018. Most individual income tax changes will revert to current law after 2025 unless extended.

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I don't know if that means that we'll go back to a standard deduction and personal exemption in 2025 or not.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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the article was dated 19 Dec.

Final tax cuts jobs act details analysis

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
The PDF is here: https://files.taxfoundation.org/20171220113959/TaxFoundation-SR241-TCJ
A-3.pdf

If you can't view it, might I suggest Firefox

I don't have time to read through it right now, but I don't see anything about 2019 brackets in there. Just what we already knew about 2018.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, apparently GSTRING has no memory of what it posted just short while ago.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62106&mid=1
042742#1042742

Is GSTRING a synthetic troll?

Maybe we have been posting to a synthetic "bot" all along ... a set of programmed responses and pre-programmed phrases designed by the NSA for political purposes? That would explain its lack of human background. For example, it's "sick mother" for which it can find no previous posted citation.

Whatever the case, GSTRING is remarkably inept.
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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

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I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, by which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.

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That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12

Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

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Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
What's SOTU? I might be having a brainfart here.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
What's SOTU? I might be having a brainfart here.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Nope. Not a brainfart. I've never owned a smartphone, so I haven't jumped on this bandwagon that we need to have an acronym for everything.

For the longest time, I thought FTW meant Fuck the World.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Nope. Not a brainfart. I've never owned a smartphone, so I haven't jumped on this bandwagon that we need to have an acronym for everything.

For the longest time, I thought FTW meant Fuck the World.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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To to be a life without knowing what are WTF, SNAFU, Jeep, FBI, POTUS, SUV, CIA, LOL, BOGO, ASAP, SONAR, RADAR, LASER, JPG, GIF, BASIC, IRS, DOS, MHz, MPG, MPH, PPG, PPM, DOT, IFF, ABS, SSN, PIN, VIN, ID, DMV, TV, NASA, DVD, CD, IIRC, DJIA...

Although it did take me awhile for WOT - and not without it being spelled out for me.

Now you make me wonder if second knows what FTS is.

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