WULF'S IDEAS ON FREEDOM AND CHANGE: SNARK FREE ZONE by SignyM

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

WULF'S IDEAS ON FREEDOM AND CHANGE: SNARK FREE ZONE

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 13:40
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Monday, September 21, 2009 12:43 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
The whole point is that you HAVE to leave the people to be free. Because, even tho most people are stupid, of the billions of us out there, one can be a hero.

And in your perfect vision of WulfieWorld, YOU get to be the hero, right? Hey, everybody's a hero in their own mind, I suppose...

Quote:

"Did you just use the argument that government is like a corporation? So government is in it for profit? Really? Wow - I guess all that crap about "government waste and inefficiency" can go right in the dumpster then, eh"

No, I said they were both the same.

In what ways are they the same, then?

Mike

Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black

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Monday, September 21, 2009 12:55 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
You don't know your history then.

Coming from you, that is high-larious. You, who put up nothing but movie clips by way of illustrating your "history".

Quote:

Violence was needed. Just because he didn't meet violence WITH violence... this made him memorable.

Ah, so because violence was used against him, you say it "was needed". So refresh my memory - who won that one?

Quote:

But look at India now. Broken and unsure.

Really. You have cites and facts to back that up, I'm sure. You DO realize that it's the world's largest democracy, yes? It's also quite capitalist. It's what you want America to become.

Quote:

He died before he could finish things.

That's a cop-out. The same could be said of Hitler, or Pol Pot, or Jesus, or Reagan, or ANYBODY who died.

Quote:

But here, in our homeland... laying down to those in power. Well, hell, that isn't in our national spirit.

Oh, horseshit. You, who are no supporter of unions, should know better than that. Time after time after time, when the workers actually try to stand up for themselves, they're beaten down or shot, usually by their government. And it always ends with the unions laying down to those in power, and idiot fucks like you saying "Unions have ruined this country!" while enjoying your 40-hour work week, your overtime pay, your coffee breaks and lunch hour, and every goddamned other thing that the unions and their sacrifices have made available for your benefit, but which you'd just as soon spit on them for, when what you SHOULD be doing is saying "Thank you" to them instead.

Quote:

We are first, and so far only, in that we never bend our knees to those in power. We refuse to bow, because it is not in our nature.

Again, more pure, unadulterated horseshit.

Mike

Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black

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Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:45 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Oh, horseshit. You, who are no supporter of unions, should know better than that. Time after time after time, when the workers actually try to stand up for themselves, they're beaten down or shot, usually by their government. And it always ends with the unions laying down to those in power, and idiot fucks like you saying "Unions have ruined this country!" while enjoying your 40-hour work week, your overtime pay, your coffee breaks and lunch hour, and every goddamned other thing that the unions and their sacrifices have made available for your benefit, but which you'd just as soon spit on them for, when what you SHOULD be doing is saying "Thank you" to them instead."

When and where have I EVER said I was against Unions?

Dude, your OWN pre-judgments (prejudices) are showing.

But since you bring it up, Im FOR Unions.

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Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
"Never said that I was that Hero."

No, but you claim that there is such a righteous thing. One against the faceless less-than-humans.

You know who is a REAL hero ? Gandhi. Though he weasled out in the end with the creation of Pakistan, he was able to engage the minds and souls of millions with a new dream. He didn't go against 'them', or around 'them', or through 'them'. He invited people, and together they went on a journey.

That's what I've been pointing out...that Wulf seems to see things in a theatrical light, heroes and villains, Patriots and enemies. The more people see things that way, the slower any progress we can make toward changing things. Ghandi is a perfect example; if we could just see the greys, and just recognize that we're all PEOPLE, regardless of nationality, color, heritage, etc., we'd have a better chance of bringing about change.

Quote:
And, as I have pointed out in other places, there is a reason to make structural changes first and allow human nature to follow later. Because the lessons learned by individuals, no matter how valuable, tend to die with them.

Good one, Rue, and right on.

Quote:
Violence was needed. Just because he didn't meet violence WITH violence... this made him memorable.

But look at India now. Broken and unsure.

No, violence wasn't needed...it already existed. Fighting it with nonviolence made a difference, but if there'd been a system where change could be brought about without having to endure violence, it would have happened differently. As to India; what's still wrong is only because you were right, Ghandi died too soon. Wonder how it would have been if he'd lived longer...

There HAVE been major changes, tho'. That Ghandi wasn't able to stop Pakistan from being made a separate entity partly defeated the changes he would have liked to see, but...

Quote:
That's a cop-out. The same could be said of Hitler, or Pol Pot, or Jesus, or Reagan, or ANYBODY who died.

That's fallacious, in my opinion. What Ghandi was trying to accomplish would have gone further, I believe, if he'd lived longer. The two dictators you used as examples were tyrants, they didn't just "die", they were defeated. Reagan was out of power when he died, so what he'd been able to "accomplish" (I use the term loosely) had been accomplished, didn't matter whether he lived or died beyond it.

Mike, I hate to say it, but I think you're prejudiced against Wulf. I disagree with him a lot, too, but from what I've seen over time, just about anything he posts, you vehemently refute, even when what he posts is true. Your use of pejoratives is almost unanimous when it comes to Wulf, and I think you miss a lot of what he says, and pre-judge him as things he's not, as a result.

On the other hand, I disagree wholeheartedly with

Quote:
Because, even tho most people are stupid, of the billions of us out there, one can be a hero

Most people aren't stupid...ignorant, yes; gullible, perhaps; easily led, definitely...but there's a big difference between those and "stupid". I say yet again, Wulf: You live in a world which is black and white, good and bad, heroes and villains. That is not the real world, and as long as you cling to it, you are not dealing with the world as it is. Having lofty goals and "heroic" ideas is great, but being able to recognize how things ARE, the good and the bad, is, I believe, healthier.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:16 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

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Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:56 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"Oh, horseshit. You, who are no supporter of unions, should know better than that. Time after time after time, when the workers actually try to stand up for themselves, they're beaten down or shot, usually by their government. And it always ends with the unions laying down to those in power, and idiot fucks like you saying "Unions have ruined this country!" while enjoying your 40-hour work week, your overtime pay, your coffee breaks and lunch hour, and every goddamned other thing that the unions and their sacrifices have made available for your benefit, but which you'd just as soon spit on them for, when what you SHOULD be doing is saying "Thank you" to them instead."

When and where have I EVER said I was against Unions?

Dude, your OWN pre-judgments (prejudices) are showing.

But since you bring it up, Im FOR Unions.

I stand corrected. And thank you for your support! You may be the ONLY "conservative" who supports unions.

Mike

Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black

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Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The whole point is that you HAVE to leave the people to be free. Because, even tho most people are stupid, of the billions of us out there, one can be a hero.

Wow. What are you saying, Wulf?

I was called away.

ETA: People need to be free because even though 99.99999999% are stupider than sh*t, this freedom will allow ONE to be a hero? And, what is this "hero" going to do? Save the 99.9999999% from "the bad guy"?????? Or are you saying that people must be free to be stupid???? I REALLY don't get your point!

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