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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
ObamaCare mandate ruled unconstitutional
Sunday, August 28, 2011 11:51 AM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Sunday, August 28, 2011 12:05 PM
Sunday, August 28, 2011 12:10 PM
ANTHONYT
Freedom is Important because People are Important
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: "Which brings you right around to the concept that everyone should have their own gun." And then those with the most and biggest guns win - just like Somalia. Because it is SOOOooo much better to have people shooting at each other than discussing what to do. Goody. I LIKE your concept! (That's irony.) Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither....
Sunday, August 28, 2011 12:35 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by AnthonyT: Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: "Which brings you right around to the concept that everyone should have their own gun." And then those with the most and biggest guns win - just like Somalia. Because it is SOOOooo much better to have people shooting at each other than discussing what to do. Goody. I LIKE your concept! (That's irony.) Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither....
Sunday, August 28, 2011 1:06 PM
Sunday, August 28, 2011 2:16 PM
MAGONSDAUGHTER
Sunday, August 28, 2011 4:37 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: "However, it's important to know that advocates of government are *still* advocating that the one with the most and biggest guns should win. Just like everywhere." Supposedly, the idea behind the way the US constitution was made was that the majority rules up until it infringes on the rights of the minority. That strikes me as being a tricky balancing act. The next step down is a dictatorship of the majority, and the next step down is a gun-wielding minority-rule, AKA dictatorship. I think I'd rather fail at the first type than try for the last. Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither...
Sunday, August 28, 2011 6:29 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: But in my example, and in real life, companies can earn local loyalty. What if the local population is loyal and goes after the downstream population? So now you have two populations fighting each other. How is that better than government?
Quote:Having premised these things, I shall, with the aid of my judgment and information, which, I confess, are not extensive, go into the discussion of this system more minutely. Is it necessary for your liberty that you should abandon those great rights by the adoption of this system? Is the relinquishment of the trial by jury and the liberty of the press necessary for your liberty? Will the abandonment of your most sacred rights tend to the security of your liberty? Liberty, the greatest of all earthly blessing — give us that precious jewel, and you may take every thing else! But I am fearful I have lived long enough to become an old-fashioned fellow. Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned; if so, I am contented to be so. I say, the time has been when every pulse of my heart beat for American liberty, and which, I believe, had a counterpart in the breast of every true American; but suspicions have gone forth — suspicions of my integrity — publicly reported that my professions are not real. Twenty-three years ago was I supposed a traitor to my country? I was then said to be the bane of sedition, because I supported the rights of my country. I may be thought suspicious when I say our privileges and rights are in danger. But, sir, a number of the people of this country are weak enough to think these things are too true. I am happy to find that the gentleman on the other side declares they are groundless. But, sir, suspicion is a virtue as long as its object is the preservation of the public good, and as long as it stays within proper bounds: should it fall on me, I am contented: conscious rectitude is a powerful consolation. I trust there are many who think my professions for the public good to be real. Let your suspicion look to both sides. There are many on the other side, who possibly may have been persuaded to the necessity of these measures, which I conceive to be dangerous to your liberty. Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
Quote:But we are told that we need not fear; because those in power, being our representatives, will not abuse the powers we put in their hands. I am not well versed in history, but I will submit to your recollection, whether liberty has been destroyed most often by the licentiousness of the people, or by the tyranny of rulers. I imagine, sir, you will find the balance on the side of tyranny. Happy will you be if you miss the fate of those nations, who, omitting to resist their oppressors, or negligently suffering their liberty to be wrested from them, have groaned under intolerable despotism! Most of the human race are now in this deplorable condition; and those nations who have gone in search of grandeur, power, and splendor, have also fallen a sacrifice, and been the victims of their own folly. While they acquired those visionary blessings, they lost their freedom. My great objection to this government is, that it does not leave us the means of defending our rights, or of waging war against tyrants. It is urged by some gentlemen, that this new plan will bring us an acquisition of strength — an army, and the militia of the states. This is an idea extremely ridiculous: gentlemen cannot be earnest. This acquisition will trample on our fallen liberty. Let my beloved Americans guard against that fatal lethargy that has pervaded the universe. Have we the means of resisting disciplined armies, when our only defence, the militia, is put into the hands of Congress? The honorable gentleman said that great danger would ensue if the Convention rose without adopting this system. I ask, Where is that danger? I see none.
Quote:The honorable gentleman who presides told us that, to prevent abuses in our government, we will assemble in Convention, recall our delegated powers, and punish our servants for abusing the trust reposed in them. O sir, we should have fine times, indeed, if, to punish tyrants, it were only sufficient to assemble the people! Your arms, wherewith you could defend yourselves, are gone; and you have no longer an aristocratical, no longer a democratical spirit. Did you ever read of any revolution in a nation, brought about by the punishment of those in power, inflicted by those who had no power at all? You read of a riot act in a country which is called one of the freest in the world, where a few neighbors cannot assemble without the risk of being shot by a hired soldiery, the engines of despotism. We may see such an act in America.
Quote:This, sir, is my great objection to the Constitution, that there is no true responsibility — and that the preservation of our liberty depends on the single chance of men being virtuous enough to make laws to punish themselves.
Quote:I have been repeating over and over again that he who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honour by non-violently facing death may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden. He has no business to be the head of a family. He must either hide himself, or must rest content to live for ever in helplessness and be prepared to crawl like a worm at the bidding of a bully.
Quote:The world is not entirely governed by logic. Life itself involves some kind of violence and we have to choose the path of least violence.
Sunday, August 28, 2011 6:57 PM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Monday, August 29, 2011 12:11 AM
Monday, August 29, 2011 12:52 AM
Monday, August 29, 2011 4:56 PM
PIZMOBEACH
... fully loaded, safety off...
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
Monday, August 29, 2011 5:23 PM
Monday, August 29, 2011 6:15 PM
Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man. Sorry to have missed this thread "live" - very interesting. Shout-out/props/attaboyz! to NewNick for hanging in and swinging for the fence with each fast ball from the FFF.net/RWED bitching staff. Welcome! Fuck 'em! Have a nice day! Keep posting. Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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