REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Office of the President deserves RESPECT!!! Except, y'know, not NOW that Obama is in....

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 03:24
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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 10:05 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Shut you the hell up with that bit o' news, huh Storydork ?



Nah, I was too busy slappin your sorry ass around in the other thread.

So, like in that thread, I'll grant you that the phrase may have originated on the left. They have not, however, embraced it in an openly racist way, like the right has.

When Rush uses it daily, and had used the term more than 30 times in a single broadcast, where the term originated looses signifigance. The right owns it fully, now.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."



Doesn't matter. The Left came up with it. How it was "embraced" isn't the issue. Paul Shanklin made a parody song about, which is quite funny. You'd never know, because you're too much of an ignorant pussy to even know what the hell you're talking about. As usual. 30 x's in a broadcast ? Irrelevant, meaningless crap. The Left came up with it. Used it in a PUBLIC NEWS PAPER. Gets read every time anyone reads that article. Your arbitrary rules don't mean dick, just a sad, pathetic way you have of trying to cover your sorry sack of shit self for , once again, being wrong.




Not surprising at all that the notion of context escapes you. Not surprising in the least.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 10:05 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


But I did want to preserve THIS for posterity, too, as another delightful 'Rap fact':


"That because a black writer coined the phrase "magic negro" ..."


***************************************************************

You should trademark the phrase 'Rap fact'. I wouldn't be surprised if it worked its way into the vernacular.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 10:10 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
But I did want to preserve THIS for posterity, too, as another delightful 'Rap fact':


"That because a black writer coined the phrase "magic negro" ..."


***************************************************************

You should trademark the phrase 'Rap fact'. I wouldn't be surprised if it worked its way into the vernacular.



Which means it's perfectly okay for fat, drug addicted wingnut radio dicks to use it repeatedly in a racist, derogatory manner.

It makes total sense....

IN RAPPY-LAND!

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 10:34 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
But I did want to preserve THIS for posterity, too, as another delightful 'Rap fact':


"That because a black writer coined the phrase "magic negro" ..."


***************************************************************

You should trademark the phrase 'Rap fact'. I wouldn't be surprised if it worked its way into the vernacular.



Which means it's perfectly okay for fat, drug addicted wingnut radio dicks to use it repeatedly in a racist, derogatory manner.

It makes total sense....

IN RAPPY-LAND!

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."



In no way, what so ever, was it used in a derogatory or racist manner. You're just lying about that so you can blindly vilify Rush, once again, because he's a right winger, and you hate the right wing, ergo, you feel it's ok to lie, because , to you, the ends justifies the means.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 10:36 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
But I did want to preserve THIS for posterity, too, as another delightful 'Rap fact':


"That because a black writer coined the phrase "magic negro" ..."


***************************************************************

You should trademark the phrase 'Rap fact'. I wouldn't be surprised if it worked its way into the vernacular.



That I get credit for pointing out the facts.... does it not seem a bit strange to you that you'd waste so much effort in fighting over something as so trivial and meaningless ? I mean, seriously, all you sheeple are doing is going along w/ the Left wing dumb-masses.

"If the media says it's racist, it MUST be! "

Are you so trapped by the collective mind set that you can't see and think for yourselves ? My god, how pathetic.

Yeah, it's official. You folks are unfuckingbelievable.




It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 10:50 AM

STORYMARK


Meanwhile... In Rappy-Land:


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


In no way, what so ever, was it used in a derogatory or racist manner. You're just lying about that so you can blindly vilify Rush, once again, because he's a right winger, and you hate the right wing, ergo, you feel it's ok to lie, because , to you, the ends justifies the means.



I don't hate the whole right wing. Just some. Like Rush. And you.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 10:52 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And just look at how much time you're spending defending racism - all because a black person said it, so that makes it okay for a hateful junkie right-wing radio dickhead to spew it!

As always, AuRetard, you have no case. And, as I have every time before, I win, you lose, now go back to fucking your sister, white trash.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 10:53 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Meanwhile... In Rappy-Land:


I wouldn't mind, but he's just parroting things said to him. He's so dim witted he can't even come up with his own insults.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 11:30 AM

DREAMTROVE


Oh the animals are eating each other again. I need more popcorn. Wait, this idiocy is unbalanced. Someone PM Hero and get him over here ;)

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 11:52 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Oh the animals are eating each other again. I need more popcorn. Wait, this idiocy is unbalanced. Someone PM Hero and get him over here ;)


I love you too.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 12:11 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Mike, not you too?



Relax a bit, Dream; I'm just pokin' the monkey in the cage...

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 1:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
And just look at how much time you're spending defending racism - all because a black person said it, so that makes it okay for a hateful junkie right-wing radio dickhead to spew it!

As always, AuRetard, you have no case. And, as I have every time before, I win, you lose, now go back to fucking your sister, white trash.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."



I'm not defending racism, in the least. That's where you are wrong, and that's why you're a fucking moron.

Clearly, I win, you lose.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 1:07 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Meanwhile... In Rappy-Land:


I wouldn't mind, but he's just parroting things said to him. He's so dim witted he can't even come up with his own insults.




I don't have to. You are your own insult. Thanks ever so much.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 1:12 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
[B
I don't have to. You are your own insult. Thanks ever so much.


Seriously, that's the best you could do? Even that's half ripped off of something I said to you earlier. I'd say come up with you're own material, but you're clearly not smart enough.

No wonder you have to get all your opinions from the Republican party website.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 1:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

because , to you, the ends justifies the means.
Was it you, rapo, who once said it was OK for a President to lie to the public in order to get the "right" result? Maybe I'm mis-remembering.... Coulda sworn it was you tho.

In any case, thread subject: A President is due as much respect as he earns. Hate to quote Spiderman but... "With great power comes great reponsibility". Although I thought the 2000 election was a fraud, I was willing to give Bush a chance. I started to get turned off when the very first thing Cheney did was hold secret energy meetings and then shielded the information under "executive privilege". (Didn't care for it when Hillary did that with health care, either.) But nothing really horrible happened until 9-11.... and then all hell broke loose. The Patriot Act. The tax cuts. Afghanistan. Iraq. Medicare Rx benefits (for the pharmas). Media consolidation. Katrina. Attempted Social Security privatization. Overlooked unfair trade with China. Corruption. The SEC asleep at the switch, turning over the Fed to Goldman Sachs. Unitary Executive.

The man has been an unmitigated disaster throughout his tenure in virtually all areas of governance. Sure, he couldn't do this "all by himself"- he had help from all Repubs and many Dems as well- but "the decider" sets the tone. And history will remember George W the same as it remembers Gorbachev: the beginning of the end.

AFA Obama... again, it depends on what he does. First of all, he's got a lot dubya's shit to shovel. And the Repubs, after 8 years tinkle-on economics and deregulation, STILL cannot admit it's a failed policy. So I'll wait and see how well he shovels the shit that dubya created, and right now it's too early to say.

But I like the open-ness of his administration, and the new intepretation of FOIA requests:
FROM AGENCY INSIDERS:
Quote:

Dear Supporter:

As President Obama forms his administration, there have been many encouraging signs such as his January 21st order to all agencies that the "Freedom of Information Act should be administered with a clear presumption: In the face of doubt, openness prevails."

PEER is now engaged in FOIA lawsuits to uncover:
Health and safety dangers facing Interior Department employees working inside the headquarters building even as it is being reconstructed;
Deep corruption within the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service law enforcement program, including trafficking in illegal trophies; and
Environmental violations by the Corps in the post-Katrina clean-up.

We are about to find out if the Obama order is being followed as these are our other FOIA suits are resolved. We are also filing a flotilla of new FOIA requests on a wide range of topics suggested by agency insiders; we will let you know if the sun is really shining through.

Busily yours,

P.S. On other fronts, we believe that the Obama EPA has put the kibosh on huge allowed increases in public radiation exposure levels following a nuclear accident or "dirty bomb attack" - just another lovely parting gift from the Bush crowd.
P.P.S. It is also unclear whether agency scientists will actually enjoy new protections or whether prior scientific manipulations will be corrected - or when.



--------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 3:13 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Anyone who compares the Bush tax cuts to 9/11, or calls them " horrible", ain't playin' with a full deck.

Otherwise...

Afghanistan ( Well, that was kinda necessary, after the 9/11 thing )
Iraq ( Very questionable act, I'll grant that ) Medicare Rx benefits ( Pretty poor choice, I must agree).
Media consolidation (Not the President's issue )
Katrina( Bush gets far too much criticism Attempted Social Security privatization ( Not attempted nearly hard enough. Needs to be done away with, imo )
Overlooked unfair trade with China. ( Yeah, what President won't ? )
Corruption ( Never proven, but always talked about )
The SEC asleep at the switch ( Oh yeah it was ! )

You forgot FARM AID , which was more aid to BIG AGRA and not enough ( any ) help to small family farms.
AND
Comprehensive Illegal Alien Act, which was a disaster.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 3:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:

Seriously, that's the best you could do? Even that's half ripped off of something I said to you earlier.







It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 3:37 PM

DREAMTROVE


Well, that was fun

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 3:41 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Afghanistan ( Well, that was kinda necessary, after the 9/11 thing )
Yeah, too bad it was interrupted by....
Quote:

Iraq ( Very questionable act, I'll grant that )
At least we agree on that! Let's have a beer!
Quote:

Medicare Rx benefits ( Pretty poor choice, I must agree).
Let's have another! The poor sod who had to calculate the cost wound up sneaking the ACTUAL calculations thru a transom because he was told not to exceed 400 billion. So, in the Bush admin, not only did politcs trump science, it also trupmed basic accounting. www.barkbarkwoofwoof.com/2004/03/over-transom.html
Quote:

Media consolidation (Not the President's issue )
Yes, it is. The FCC write the rules about who is able to own what, and the chair - Michael Powell (Colin's son)- pushed, and pushed HARD- for a change in rules that would allow consolidation. This is DEFINITELY an admin's bailiwick.
Quote:

Katrina( Bush gets far too much criticism
There's enough to go all the way around, but that includes Bush.
Quote:

Attempted Social Security privatization ( Not attempted nearly hard enough. Needs to be done away with, imo )
So that our retirement funds could go the way of the housing bubble? Thanks, but no thanks!
Quote:

Overlooked unfair trade with China. ( Yeah, what President won't ? )
Good question.
Quote:

Corruption ( Never proven, but always talked about )
We'll see if it ever gets investigated. The difference between Obama and Bush? With Obama, you know what's going on.
Quote:

The SEC asleep at the switch ( Oh yeah it was ! )
From allowing an increase in leveraged investments at back (prompted by none other than than "Hank" Paulson, who was then chair of Goldman Sachs) to sleeping thru Enron and Madoff... Meanwhile, all those poor corporations crying that Sarbanes-Oxley was "too strict"....! Serious *ss needs to be kicked!
Quote:

You forgot FARM AID , which was more aid to BIG AGRA and not enough ( any ) help to small family farms.
Hey! Let's have another beer!
AND
Quote:

Comprehensive Illegal Alien Act, which was a disaster.
ANOTHER TOAST TO AGREEMENT!


---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 3:55 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Eh, I can't let this thread end on 69 posts. It's just not nice.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 3:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

...sleeping thru Enron


Didn't the bulk of that deception go on during the Clinton administration, and the bankruptcy occur early in Bush's administration?



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 4:04 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:





Wake up. WAKE UP!
You need not hate on your former liberal self! Extremes are common in youth, coming to the middle takes time. But to dismiss the beliefs you had entirely is simply to banish your true self to the other end of the spectrum as a survival mechanism.
Let it go, AU.
Let go of your hate.
I sense the good in you, the conflict.


The Jediisall

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 4:07 PM

DREAMTROVE


A word into the flames about one issue that most of the left does not get at all, and that is the disaster called social security.

Social Security is probably one of the worst conceived economic plans of all time. It has two defenses, so let me attack them independently:

A) Social Security as long term investment.

The total payout on social security as an investment is 33 cents on the dollar of what's put in, with no interest or appreciation. Relative to other fixed income investment, it's 3 cents on the dollar out, with no interest or inflation adjustment. *

No one would ever willingly invest in such a plan.

So this concludes that it must be B) a welfare plan:

B) As a welfare plan, Social Security is terrible on both ends:

1. 1/3 of all checks, and 2/3 of all $ go to households with net assets over a million dollars. My mom, who is poor, gets $300/mo, her ex-husband gets 1,000, and her brother, $1750. The latter two both fall into the "over a million" category.

2. The payments are covered by incoming entitlement taxes, which are extremely regressive. The rate starts at 12.4% of your income for the poorest americans, and decreases to 6.2% for the full time employed, up to 90,000, after which you could opt out. The top 1% of american earners, on average, should they pay in, are taxed at an average of 0.37%

3. The social security money is held in a special account, the social security trust, which is routinely raided by presidents of both parties and has been for decades. Most of the money that goes in will be taken out to use on some military supplemental or other such expense.

So, it robs from the poor, and gives to the rich?

Stupid bitch.

The Dennis Moore school of economics would have to evolve to lose 2/3 of the cash along the way.

Virtually anything would be better. No program at all, for example, would be a vast improvement.

*(Furthermore, the system does not differentiate as to when dollars were put in, so 10 years out of 40 worked last is valued several times as much as the same job worked the first 10 years. Many people don't work full time for 40 years, but only for some of those.)


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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 4:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Didn't the bulk of that deception go on during the Clinton administration, and the bankruptcy occur early in Bush's administration?
It's hard to say where the serious accounting fraud started, but Wikipedia traces it to Nov 1999 with the creation of EnronOnline with actual bankruptcy in Nov 2001. However, it was Wendy Gramm, Phil Gramm's wife, who was on Enron's Board, and Phil Gramm who pushed thru laws which allowed "deregulated" energy futures trading (previously illegal) which would become the source of Enron's phantasmal wealth and one of the reasons for the latest meltdown. This bill was pushed by republicans and buried in a larger bill and passed during Clinton's last few Xmas days withou examination or debate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_20
00


As an FYI it was Phil Gramm who also pushed for bank deregulation, undoing the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 in 1999.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 4:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


DT, there are all kinds of ways to remake Social Security, but the Bush way wasn't it.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 4:25 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Bah, Soc Sec is a Ponzi scheme, and everyone knows it.

What's worse is that if you ask around, all the folk currently paying into it to support the dickheads from former generations who spent all our money before we were even born - have NO expectation whatever of that money being there when they retire, or the Gov holding up their end of the agreement.

Not to sound especially cruel, but given that THEY saddled US with a massive debt load before we were even concieved in order to maintain a cushy standard of living during their own lifetime, I got little issue with cutting them off and letting them starve, to hell with respecting one's elders when they have set you up from birth as slaves to THEIR debt, fuck em.

I know that sounds really mean - but look at it from the point of view of an independant contractor who's BASIC tax rate has at times neared 70% and that's not including sales tax, state and local, excise tax, fuel tax, telephone line tax, utility taxes, tax tax tax on top of tax.... *hisssss*

And be damned if I care for the thought of US delivering the same treatment upon future generations, giving them even more cause to quite rightfully hate us.

The only compromise I'd be willing to accept is to refund the input of everyone not on it who's paid into it, cut off any further inductions to the program, and continue payment of those already on it till they expire, then end the program entire.

But believe me, workin my ass off and not being able to put food on the table after those goddamn taxes sometimes is quite enough to leave me absolutely, utterly NO pity or mercy for the folks who shovelled that tax debt upon me from birth, none whatsoever.

And if that makes me an evil, hateful bastard, so be it.
I've no respect for thieves who rob mere infants of their earnings for their entire life, till they're old enough to join the ranks of those parasites, if they survive that long.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 4:48 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Bah, Soc Sec is a Ponzi scheme, and everyone knows it.


A-damn-men!!!

Freedom, Responsibility ... and What? Social Security Reform - An Explanation


Social Security funding, as a plot device, makes for a languidly paced political thriller. The president discovers a ticking time bomb that's been sitting in plain view for seventy years. It must be disarmed, either with mildly risky partial privatization or with somewhat hazardous tax and benefit adjustments. Cut the blue-state wire? Cut the red-state wire? Only thirteen years to decide before Social Security starts paying out more than it takes in. Or thirty-seven years, if you wait until the accumulated surplus in the Social Security Trust Fund runs out. Then the damp squib goes off, giving ever querulous Generation X something else to complain about.

The pundits who deny that the crisis exists are as shrill as the prophets of doom. The liberal economist and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman claims, "The people who hustled America into a tax cut to eliminate an imaginary budget surplus and a war to eliminate imaginary weapons are now trying another bum's rush. If they succeed, we will dismantle Social Security, a program that is in much better financial shape than the rest of the federal government."

In thirteen years every aspect of the universe can change — ask a thirteen-year-old. And "much better financial shape than the rest of the federal government" is hardly a reassuring statement. But the political side-taking on reforming Social Security is suddenly, urgently bitter. Maybe this is a sign of health (not to mention longevity) in our democratic system. Politics is — once in a while — a forum for serious debate about political philosophy.
http://pjorourkeonline.blogspot.com/2005/04/freedom-responsibility-and
-what-social.html


P J O'Rourke Online



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 5:52 PM

DREAMTROVE


Frem,

I wouldn't go that far. If people grew up in a system that promised them the support, then they should have it. But the system has to go.

Remember a couple of things:

1. The old people now on it *also* paid into the system, 3x more than they are getting out, on average. (Much more, inflation adjusted)

2. The raiding of the trust is the reason that the current taxed are paying for the current recipients. No one should ever trust the govt. with money, esp. a giant bank account.

Ergo, the system is insolvent, but it was the retirement plan of a generation. I say:

Cut the wealthy out, only pay out to the poor, that will save a bundle. Welfare to the rich is a moronic idea. Use the money already in the fund to pay that. Then let the system die. That would probably balance out. If it doesn't, let the govt. programs that took from the fund suffer the budget cuts.

Notice how govts. spend money and run up deficits? Bush spent about twice what he took in, ran us up -$1T/y? Obama has already added -$900B. Just like the SST, banks love this. Big accounts that can be lent out, margined, etc.

Govt. promises a pension, it has to deliver, just like a company. It should be a primary responsibility, but it shouldn't make that promise if it can't keep it.

You're right, no one expects to get anything out of it, except for those people who worked the 40 years already, and need it to survive. Cut them off and you create chaos.

The new old homeless won't just suffer in silence, they'll move in and become an economic drag on their kids, etc. If you want to remove the burden on the next generation, and future ones, you have to not create that situation.

But it's not something that justifies the current system. Nothing does.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 6:22 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Govt. promises a pension, it has to deliver, just like a company.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, yeah, right.

And just how many ways to they dodge that bullet when it finally comes up, like the auto industrys habit of spinning off a "deadweight" section, saddling it with those obligations and no budget, then declaring it insolvent, bankrupt, and dumping those obligations off while re-absorbing any useful assets left over ?

Please, pension plans lasted one generation, ONE, and 401k was a ripoff to begin with, in fact the only reason Fremgirl owns a house is the *ONE* time she really did listen to me, and rolled it into a home before the 401k bubble popped and the housing market crashed.
(if you plan to live there, the lower value is a net benefit by cutting your tax assessments)

So she owns a house, while all those who believed those bullshit promises own useless paperwork.

It's a scam, and as long as we're playing around with Bills of Credit and "money" not really worth the paper it's printed on, backed with the trust of the most untrustworthy enterprize ever (that being Government) it's prolly gonna stay like that.

http://www.rogershermansociety.org/caveat.htm

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 6:43 PM

DREAMTROVE


FREM,

No %^&* sherlock, that wasn't my point. The problem is that these people did buy the promise, and you ditch them, and they'll go be a direct drain on their kids, rather than a theoretical one.

As for housing, here's a better plan: Build. We should have built out of town, that's better. After that, become the local govt. The control the taxes. Some places, the assessment is the last sale. Here it's figured, but you can keep mum about it a lot. If you take out a huge mtg, they notice.

But, yes, always pay cash, never believe in promises, etc. My grandad gave me this talk when I was 6, and it stuck. Somewhere in the middle he said "don't eat food that has flies on it." Also sound advice.

A little side note to this. Everyone laughs at me when I say I'm independently destitute, but I'm serious. I'm far better off than a lot of people that I know that have a lot of income. My bennies are: Freedom to do whatever I want, no expenses, no taxes, freedom to travel, work or not work, etc. And, oh, no boss breathing down my neck.

Personal rules: There is no such thing as credit. Just like there's no new game button on freecell. I make a lot of self limitations, it helps a lot, why I have no TV, there's no such thing as TV :)

But my position on Soc. Sec., which is pretty far right, I'm a dyed in the wool 'let them eat caker,' is based on realism, not what people *should* do, what they've already done. As for future people, as you said, they know the rules. There are no promises. A lot of promises had to be broken for the people to wise up to that. I just hope that Obama isn't about to create a new generation of dependents.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 7:05 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
A-damn-men!!!

Crap. I find myself in agreement with AU again.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 7:24 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
A-damn-men!!!

Crap. I find myself in agreement with AU again.


The laughing Chrisisall



Naw. You agree with Frem, and just leave it at that.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 7:45 PM

DREAMTROVE


Chris, it happens, no matter how hard you try. Everyone just happens to be right some of the time.

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 7:51 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Naw. You agree with Frem, and just leave it at that.


*Whew* Thanks for that official release. I'm legally covered.

(No reachin' across the aisle on FFF.net)

You're a p***k, an a**hole, and a f***face, I hate you, die you lying motherf***in' waste of human DNA!!! Suck sewage and twist in pain from small intestine hemmorhage, you waterboarding-lovin' Bauer-wannabe!!!!

Hey, did you think Peter got killed in the last ep of Heroes? No way could they kill him! That would suck!!!


The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 7:58 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Chris, it happens, no matter how hard you try. Everyone just happens to be right some of the time.

I hate that broken clock right twice a day s**t.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 9:28 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Bah, Soc Sec is a Ponzi scheme, and everyone knows it.


A-damn-men!!!


No one actual takes anything you post seriously, might as well give it up AURacist.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 12:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Bah, Soc Sec is a Ponzi scheme, and everyone knows it.


A-damn-men!!!


No one actual takes anything you post seriously, might as well give it up AURacist.









It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 3:06 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:





Hehe, the best comeback the KKK has is to hotlink other peoples images. Not only are you a racist biggoted white trash dolt, but a theif as well



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 3:35 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Not only are you a racist biggoted white trash dolt, but a theif as well


Wow...somebody takes this stuff way too serious.

If you disagree with President Bush...your unAmerican. If you disagree with President Obama...your a racist biggoted white trash dolt.

Seems under these conditions we're all something, even when we're not. Makes a civil discussion difficult.

Take my contribution. I pointed out it was too early to form a judgement about President Obama. I noted good things and bad things. I noted many of the bad things are typical transition problems. I noted his only real error. Race was not an issue in my analysis.

The fact is there will always be those whose rhetoric crosses the line...happens on both sides. Rush was hard on Obama, Obama called him out. Beneath the Rush vs. Obama story is the policy disaggreement that they were really arguing about.

And so what if some people shout racist things. I've heard it from both sides. Barrack the Magic Negro is offensive, not matter who coined the phrase. I would not donate money to the person who is using it to raise funds. Likewise a comment at the inauguration about "white does what's right" has no place.

Ignore the sillyness and crazytalk from both sides. Let Obama and the Republicans (including Rush) make their point about the issues. Then discuss the issues. Then we can all condemn and filter out the crazytalk.

This will be far more productive then a "he said this" followed by "but your guy said this" argument. There's always another example from the other side we can cite. If this is our mutual standard of right and wrong...we're both going to always be wrong. Better to ignore the trap altogether.

So...back on topic...I respect the office of the President...I mean its a really nice office. Windows, couches, nice oval shape...my office doesn't even have a window and its really cold right now.

H

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 4:19 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:

Wow...somebody takes this stuff way too serious.

If you disagree with President Bush...your unAmerican. If you disagree with President Obama...your a racist biggoted white trash dolt.


Well the "if you disagree with Bush you are an unAmerican terrorist" was the American right thing. The fact that AURaptor is a racist biggoted white trash dolt is just what it is, it's largely ancillery to any opinion he has on Obama, and certainly not why I said it. I said it because he is what he is, his opinion of Obama is irrelivent, he was a white trash racist long before Obama even started to run.

When AURacist is prepared to take your advice, I'll think about taking him and anything he spouts seriously, but until then I'll be treating him with the contempt he deserves, and garners from damn near all on this forum. Since he'll never act like a decent Human being, it's a moot point though. He's a racist troll, and I like smackin' 'im.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 6:44 AM

DREAMTROVE


where is this server located anyway, Hawaii?

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 7:07 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
where is this server located anyway, Hawaii?


As I understand it, yes.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 8:38 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
where is this server located anyway, Hawaii?



It would explain the "Where you like eat?" site linked off the front page...

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 8:49 AM

DREAMTROVE


Oh no! They're taking over!

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 9:04 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
The fact that AURaptor is a racist biggoted white trash dolt is just what it is, it's largely ancillery to any opinion he has on Obama, and certainly not why I said it. I said it because he is what he is, his opinion of Obama is irrelivent, he was a white trash racist long before Obama even started to run.

When AURacist is prepared to take your advice...


I went back and reviewed ALL the posts on this thread. It began innocent enough with several of you, including AU and myself, giving various on-topic opinions.

Then several of you disagreed with AU and countered his argument. He defended his argument with the facts available. This lead to personal attacks on him which he responded to in kind.

Yet not one of the posts, not even the ones using the "N" word contains any sort of racism. Its a mixture of fact based argument of the topic and personal attacks on each other.

So your proposition that AU is a racist is simply not supported by this discussion. It is a continuation of the personal attacks that stem from a refusal to accept that his opinion may be different from your own.

By calling him a racist...in fact calling him a racist dating back to before the election, you are trying to justify in your own mind your failure to either make him agree with you or simply beat him into submission.

It might be better strategy to argue your case without regard to whether you win the argument with your opponant. Argue it to win the argument with the jury (the folks reading, but not posting or whose minds are still open).

A trial is a good example. How often do you get to the end of a trial and have one attorney stand up and say "by golly, he's right...we give up"?

When I try a case against another attorney...I'm not looking to convince him, I'm looking to win the case. Failure to convice my opponant is not the standard I measure my argument by, therefore there is no real animosity against him. Thats why we argue like cats and dogs in court and then go back into the Attorney lounge as best buddies.

It rarely gets personal and the case sufferes when it does. Same is true here.

H

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 9:19 AM

CHRISISALL


Please Hero, don't go all peacenik on us.

AURaptors don't argue for a reason, they simply argue.
Chrisisalls dont argue with AURaptors to change their minds, they're simply having fun.

Poking the angry monkey, if you will.

AU always has it his way, even when it isn't. You can't seriously argue with that. You, Hero, I can disagree with, but you never just shoot from the hip in hopes you're correct, hence me never calling you 'dumass'.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 9:50 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
So your proposition that AU is a racist is simply not supported by this discussion. It is a continuation of the personal attacks that stem from a refusal to accept that his opinion may be different from your own.


I never said it was supported by this discussion, just the hundreds over the years where he's shown himself to be a racist.
Quote:

By calling him a racist...in fact calling him a racist dating back to before the election, you are trying to justify in your own mind your failure to either make him agree with you or simply beat him into submission.

Actually, no, it's because he is a racist, and there's no talking to him because he pretty much immediately gets personal whether you do or not. So I gave up and just have fun poking the troll now.

By trying to characterise it as you are, you are clearly just trying to justify defending an obvious troll and racist because you agree with it on certain political points.
Quote:


It might be better strategy to argue your case without regard to whether you win the argument with your opponant. Argue it to win the argument with the jury (the folks reading, but not posting or whose minds are still open).


Hmm, but since the 'jury' isn't going to side with AURacist if he cashed his government check and paid them, what would be the point? If you take him seriously you're one of a handful who do. You and maybe one other. Anyone else is just his sock puppets anyway.

I get what you're trying to say, hero, and you're welcome, but I don't bother arguing anything with AURetard any more. I tried, I put a lot of effort in too treating him with respect, and he took that and spat in my face and told me it was me who did it. He's not here to argue, he's here to troll. It's so obvious I'm surprised not more people see it.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 10:17 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
He's not here to argue, he's here to troll. It's so obvious I'm surprised not more people see it.


Change we can believe in. In other words, its the same crap we've been recycling for at least a couple years.

I note for the record that treating him this way is the same trollish behaivor you acuse him of.

Aside from PirateNews...there's nobody we can't have a civil discussion with. Course maybe he's your own personal PirateNews...maybe we all have our PirateNewsies to bear. Maybe I should give PirateNews another chance. Thats it! Clean slates all around. PN is just another fella, he can enter our discussion with all the silly crazytalk put behind us. Course if he mentions the Queen or starts talking about the Gangsta Govt or Jewish Nazis...its on again.

Tell you what. Collective security. Next time AU says something racist, let me know and if it is actually racist (unlike all his postings in this thread) then we'll have a 'kick AU's ass' party and I'll bring the chips.

In return, next time PN's brain starts leaking, you threaten him with the Tennessee Highway Death Squad Patrol.

H

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 10:21 AM

CITIZEN


sure why not.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, February 5, 2009 10:22 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


As my wife says...

Respect is earned, never given.

Obama wants respect, he needs to earn it.

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