Bad Actors by Fremdfirma

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Bad Actors

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Thursday, June 9, 2011 05:32
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VIEWED: 1460
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Monday, June 6, 2011 12:55 PM

Interesting bit, and well spoken.

The Bad Actor Objection
http://www.broadsnark.com/the-bad-actor-objection/

Quote:
You and I are supposed to believe that nothing can ever be accomplished without a hero. We are supposed to believe that we are helpless in the face of anti-social behavior.

I don’t believe that. I don’t have that low of an opinion of you or of me. And I definitely don’t think that we should design our whole society around what some disturbed people might do. Once you stop believing the myth that only a hero/politician/general can save the day, then the whole justification for the authoritarian state comes crumbling down.

At least in the movie, Stewart and Wayne actually did get the job done. In real life, Stewart and Wayne would be conspiring with the evil ranchers and thugs in order to rob us all blind. In the real world, there are no heroes. There is just us.

There's few things more destructive to folks self-reliance or ability to prosper than the "hero" myth, which is why my attitude about it has always been, when a situation *needs* someone to step up to the plate, instead of waiting around for some "hero" (who often as not, turns out to be just another exploiter, usually worse!) if it matters so goddamn much step up to the plate yourself and DIY.

Even if it is kinda-gonna suck to be you for a while.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheUnchosenOne

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, June 6, 2011 6:08 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Amen.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, June 7, 2011 1:01 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Ain't about you, Jayne. About
what they need." - Mal

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, June 7, 2011 3:36 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Yanno, I've come to a point where I almost hate that quote...
Firefly rocks, as always, but given certain local issues and situations, which seem to keep biting me on the ass one after the other...
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoneHorriblyRight
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpringtimeForHitler

I sincerely hope like hell I *don't* wind up on Ann Arbors City Administration Staff, not the least of which being I hate that damn town, and their fuckin attitudes, think their DDA should be in prison, and have seriously pissed off most of the other municipal areas nearby by intending to gouge the hell out of them for borrowing from our police forces.
http://www.annarbor.com/news/recommendation-on-price-to-charge-communi
ties-for-sheriffs-department-protection-to-go-to-county-com/

Quote:
Some commissioners and those involved in the discussion have argued the current price of $150,594 per PSU is far too low, while some contracting jurisdictions contend it's too high.

*I* wanna charge em the full goddamn price, none of this shelling $25K of *our* tax money out of the Sheriffs budget to cover the difference, oh hell no, they wanna borrow our department they can damn well pay the entire $175,594.00USD or hire someone else - I ain't subsiding jack shit, and none of us voted to do so, period.

Anyhows, one of the big problems with stepping up to the plate is exactly what that quote covers, folks start projecting beliefs on you that don't even necessarily APPLY, much less have any validity.
Even worse is those that *do* realize imma villain and the potential for disaster there, who support shoving me into power, unwanted and unwilling, wholeheartedly and intend to do so.

You gotta admit local politics scrapes the bottom of the barrel when you got townships cheering on a downright self-admitted villain.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, June 7, 2011 4:03 AM

BYTEMITE

Maybe that was the point of the episode, though, that heroes can be and are unworthy, and hero worship is a little ridiculous.

Neither Mal nor Jayne are actually that heroic in the series, Mal's chaotic good alignment and Inara's delusions about Mal not-withstanding.

Besides, in a way, the people in the episode DID stand up for themselves by having a riot to keep the dropped money. And they're continuing to use the idea of Jayne as something to prop themselves up for further self-determining and rebellious action. Maybe it doesn't matter why or how the people are inspired to fight for themselves, or how they buck up their courage, maybe it only matters that they do.

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Tuesday, June 7, 2011 5:50 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Compare and contrast with "The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid".

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, June 7, 2011 9:31 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Perhaps, Byte - so long as they *DO* stand up for themselves instead of expecting someone to do it for them.
I had quite, quite enough of that shit from the Pagan community, being begged into acting in their defense, and then when their nerve inevitably gave out, being stabbed in the back by the very folk I was standing up for, often enough WHILE I was doing so.
Things like that tend to color ones worldview, a lil bit - nowadays if you ain't front and center with me, I ain't doin jack shit for ya, yanno ?

Good call Geeze - haven't seen it, but imma find a copy upon reading the reviews.
Greed, stupidity, misfortune and a crack brained plan all but assured to go to hell in a handbasket...
Sounds more realistic than most would-be westerns, anyhows.

-F

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Tuesday, June 7, 2011 11:47 AM

DREAMTROVE

So few people do anything anymore that if you do anything you're a big damn hero. Maybe that's the point.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, June 8, 2011 2:52 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I think of heroes as real life people who are willing to step up to the plate when things get rutted up. This could be a one time incident or a committment to doing right and helping others longterm.

Frem, why do you always link to that TV tropes website? I know it has a lot of stuff on it, Byte reads it, but is it really the answer to all the world's ills? I mean really. That being said you can do what you want here but I wonder why you constantly do that.

On a more engaging note: Why did the local pagans need standing up for, I'm just curious to know what was going on there.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, June 8, 2011 4:59 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Because it saves me a paragraph and more of explaination - something I occasionally fail pretty bad at, especially when describing things outside my competence zone.

Not just local, but the Pagan community as a whole tends (or tended, back then) to receive a lot of flak, crap and harrassment from religious nutters - everything from local Govt being used as a vehicle to screw with em, to downright shootings and firebombings, the Lothlorien Coven incident in FL was especially nasty since they were fired on directly multiple times...
And what with most Pagans being pacifist in nature, often to (IMHO) a really freakin stupid degree, I wound up tapped to assist because of my affiliations and cause I am most certainly NOT a pacifist, although I do believe in at least making the *attempt* to resolve things non-violently, but comes a point sometimes, when someone DOES need a boot up the ass.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, June 8, 2011 5:04 PM

DREAMTROVE

Riona a chara

I probably don't go to tvtropes enough. I read somewhere that it was the second biggest source of information after wikipedia. It's not really obscure. It doesn't contain answers, just definitions, to social memes, it's also a wiki.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, June 8, 2011 5:21 PM

BYTEMITE

Haha, guilty. Actually, there's probably quite a bit about the tvtropes that's unnecessary, such as listing and categorizing each example and meme from every show. That's distinctly obsessive fan behaviour, and also a big time waster, almost as much as the wiki-walk.

A good reference website is informative but doesn't trap you for hours. Anything that wastes time is probably not the best thing ever, since we all have limited time. But it sure is fun, and nowadays it's hard to escape being a writer and NOT going on tvtropes.

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 5:32 AM

DREAMTROVE

comprehensive indexing and summaries would help. It's the time factor that has kept me off tvtropes.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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