Holy vessel disappears from church housing Occupy Wall Street protesters by AURaptor

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Holy vessel disappears from church housing Occupy Wall Street protesters

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Thursday, February 2, 2012 07:14
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VIEWED: 3907
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Friday, January 27, 2012 6:55 PM

America loves a winner!

He genius, did you also find out whether or not the occupiers were asked to leave from the church ?

Oh, they were ?

You have no case.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, January 27, 2012 7:07 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

rappy, I ask you to leave this board for gross idiocy.

Must be true then, because I asked you to leave.

--------

Going back to my original point- It's not whether the background story was true or not. (Altho I WAS willing to grant that, but am becoming less and less inclined as time goes on.) It's that YOU DON'T CARE. All YOU care about is whether a pastor asked occupier to leave (so, he agrees with you) and whether a rabbi left the movement (so, he agrees with you too). Now, it could be that both the pastor and the rabbi are mistaken about events. But rather than take an objective view (are they right? are they wrong?) all you seem to care about is wrapping yourself up with a bunch of like-minded folks, as if quantity of opinion makes up for quality.

And that's why you have zero credibility.... none at all. You seem totally disinterested in understanding the reality of things, and merely hyping your viewpoint.

Okay, yanno what? We get your viewpoint on the topic. And it's meaningless and pointless as your viewpoint on everything else.

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Friday, January 27, 2012 7:16 PM

America loves a winner!

Sig,

You're just a petty little mind who can't stand the fact that I'm right, and you're wrong.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, January 27, 2012 7:18 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

You haven't shown that you're right. You never have. Why should I believe you now?

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Friday, January 27, 2012 7:35 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
You haven't shown that you're right. You never have. Why should I believe you now?

The story is exactly as I described it. This really is bothering you, huh?

Stay away from sharp objects after the 2012 election.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, January 28, 2012 4:33 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The story is exactly as I describe it

Really?

Hmmm... let's see... how HAVE you described it, exactly?

I guess, first of all, you are talking about "the" story. SO PICK A STORY. Which one are you talking about?

From the $369 thread

Quote:
The questions were too simplistic to bother with answering.

REALLY????

Oh, dear. Rappy, I hope you won't find MY questions "too simplistic to answer"! And, if you're ever tempted to reach for that response, please make a note to yourself: You've just lost the argument. Seriously. You're like the kid with his hand caught in the cookie-jar, so dont'... just don't.

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Saturday, January 28, 2012 5:31 AM

America loves a winner!

The story is exactly as I described it. This really is bothering you, huh?

Your obsession expands beyond this thread. Try to focus on just one, at a time. It might help you from feeling so overwhelmed.

Maybe.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, January 28, 2012 5:38 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The story is exactly as I described it. This really is bothering you, huh?

No, it's not really bothering me. In fact, it's not bothering me at all. Once I leave this thread, I guarantee it will not cross my mind again, until I come back to this thread. The only thing that bothers me is your refusal to engage in what's called "critical thinking". You have expressed the idea that critical thinking skills would be useful for the USA population, but you refuse to do it yourself. So I started with an easy question which you're ALREADY weasling on.

You said "the story"... singular. One story. So, WHICH story are you talking about? The baptismal font or the rabbi? Pick one. If you can't pick one, or won't pick one, that already indicates confused thinking. But if you pick ONE (which, by your earlier statement you seem to think is the case) then we can go from there.

Alternatively, say that you were mistaken in your phrasing, that you didn't mean to imply there was only ONE story, that you wanted to talk about both. In that case, tell me which one you would like to describe in detail first.

Simple enough.

Your turn.

ETA: In fact, I'm going to make this easier by telling you what I intend to do: I want you to parse each story sentence by sentence, and verify each detail. Once you have done that, connect the story logically to what it "means". or what you think it "means".

------------

I'm going to tell you a little story...

There was a Democractic campaign local office in I-forget-where (this was a ling time ago). In front of the office people were handing out leaflets which showed an obviously retarded child crossing a finish line. The text of the leaflet was to the effect that voting for XXXX (Republican candidate) was like being in the Special Olympics... you might win, but you were still retarded. This obviously came out one of those small three-inch column-filler news stories. Since this came up in special needs forum, you can imagine the participants (mostly moms) were livid. Were they were fired up! The pitchforks and flambeaux and staves came out instantly! There were TWO skeptics in that thread... me, and a lady from Canada.

I EMAILED THE CAMPAIGN IN QUESTION. THE PEOPLE ON THE SIDEWALK HANDING OUT THE LEAFLETS WERE NOT THEIRS. Even the GOP opponent said this was not a Dem tactic. No retraction ever appeared. So, there's a hint.

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Saturday, January 28, 2012 5:51 AM

America loves a winner!

You're not obsessed, huh?

" Once I leave this thread, I guarantee it will not cross my mind again, until I come back to this thread. "

That's the thing - YOU KEEP COMING BACK ! WHY ? What's the point ? Seriously, what keeps driving you back to this thread, where the facts are undeniably the facts, they haven't changed, they won't change, and you fretting over the fact that the OWS gang was told to leave, AND lost supporters, isn't going to change, even a little, no matter how hard you want it to.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, January 28, 2012 6:10 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yeah, I keep coming back, but it's not for the story, which bothers me not a whit. It's because I hope to teach you one day, son, that it IS possible to think with some intellectual honesty. And that it doesn't mean looking for the mote in your opponent's eye while ignoring the log in your own.

------------------

I'm going to tell you a real story...

There was a Democratic campaign local office in I-forget-where (this was a ling time ago). In front of the office people were handing out leaflets which showed an obviously retarded child crossing a finish line. The text of the leaflet was to the effect that voting for XXXX (Republican candidate) was like being in the Special Olympics... you might win, but you were still retarded.

This story came out in one of those small three-inch column-filler news items. Since this came up in special needs forum, you can imagine the participants (mostly moms) were livid. Damn, were they were fired up! The pitchforks and flambeaux and staves came out instantly! There were TWO skeptics in that thread... me, and a lady from Canada.

I EMAILED THE CAMPAIGN IN QUESTION. THE PEOPLE ON THE SIDEWALK HANDING OUT THE LEAFLETS WERE NOT THEIRS. Even the GOP opponent said this was not a Dem tactic. But no newspaper retraction ever appeared.

---------------
So, you can keep insisting that "the" story (which one?) is "true exactly as told", but HOW DO YOU KNOW? Because you read it in a right-wing blog somewhere?

You obviously feel very deeply that it (which one?) is 100% true. You should have no hesitation about verifying the details. So go to it, son. Verify your story (whichever one you pick). Until it's verified, it's nothing. When you have verified it, I will respond. I already gave you a hint. Google is your friend. Go find the truth, whatever it is, and tell me.

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Saturday, January 28, 2012 6:38 AM

America loves a winner!

Does the media lie , intentionally twist a story, to make it more appealing ? Sometimes, no question about it. I saw that first hand, when I witnessed and event, and then read about it in the paper the next day. It wasn't at all as they described it, so yeah, I GET that part. But so what ? This isn't one of those cases. ( And by THIS, I mean both incidents, in the one original story which I posted. Stop being so anal, if you can )

And spare me your anecdotal incidents, as if they have any real bearing on this PARTICULAR story.

And since you keep repeatedly interjecting the term 'son', seemingly as a pejorative. I have to ask you, how old are you ?

Am I suppose to presume that, because of your advanced chronological age, that you hold some superior understanding of the facts, or knowledge on this particular issue ?

I can assure you with the utmost certainty that I'm NOT your " son ".

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, January 28, 2012 6:44 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
This isn't one of those cases.

How do you know?

Do you have first-hand knowledge, or information outside of the stories themselves? Then bring it! Or are we just supposed to believe you because you feel this very strongly? Validate the stories. I'm not going to ask you again.

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Saturday, January 28, 2012 6:53 AM

America loves a winner!

I'm not paranoid, for one. YOU seem perfectly fine to hyper analyze the minutia of anything and everything on stories critical of which YOU approve, but in this case, there's nothing being hidden, nothing being reported that isn't fact.

ARE the OWS protesters being evicted ? Yes or No ?

They are.

Has Rabbi Chaim turned his back on the OWS movement ? Yes or No ?

He has.

Sorry, that's the story. Period, end of the issue.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, January 28, 2012 3:02 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh! Did I leave you alone in this empty thread talking to yourself? I'm sorry!

Quote:
ARE the OWS protesters being evicted ? Yes or No ?

I dunno. Are they? What says so, other than an article for which the Rev refused to comment and the OWS people were never asked? Since the parties directly involved were never asked, where did the story come from? I have an idea- why don't you ask the Reverend himself directly? His email is very easy to find.

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Saturday, January 28, 2012 4:48 PM

America loves a winner!

No, you did NOT leave me alone in this thread, because CLEARLY, you came back !

Quote:
Brashear warned the OWS riffraff against further thefts (the basin was later recovered). Nonetheless, he gave them two more weeks (at least) to stay at the church.

This wasn’t the only time Occupiers showed contempt for houses of worship that welcome them: Rabbi Chaim Gruber, an erstwhile Occupy leader himself, denounced a recent incident where a member urinated on a cross in a Park Slope church.

Last Updated: 2:21 AM, January 28, 2012

ETA - http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/occupy_and_rob_XvtEZz5
AqbUy6j7eDIhzCK

Latest updates are that the Rev has given them 2 weeks notice to get out. ( He could change his mind, of course, but the fact remains, he's told them to leave.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, January 28, 2012 7:34 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

link?

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Saturday, January 28, 2012 7:55 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"And since you keep repeatedly interjecting the term 'son', seemingly as a pejorative ..."

Damn, but he's stupid. I can't believe he's objecting to being called 'son' and being oblivious to the fact that it's the nicest thing anyone will ever call him on this board. You'd think he'd count his blessings.

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 2:38 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"And since you keep repeatedly interjecting the term 'son', seemingly as a pejorative ..."

Damn, but he's stupid. I can't believe he's objecting to being called 'son' and being oblivious to the fact that it's the nicest thing anyone will ever call him on this board. You'd think he'd count his blessings.

Why are you even responding ? This matter doesn't concern you, and yet you go on to make my point all the more valid.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:16 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

HHHhhhmmm ... SignyM, did some idiot I wasn't posting to post something to me - and make my point even more valid?

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:52 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
HHHhhhmmm ... SignyM, did some idiot I wasn't posting to post something to me - and make my point even more valid?

My comment was to Sig, you replied.

YOUR comment was to me, I replied.

You're a frackin' moron.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 8:06 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Damn, but >>> he's <<< stupid." Hmmm, definitely not to little Rappy. ABOUT him, but not TOO him.

And now for the reply ...

"Why are >>> you <<< even responding ? This matter doesn't concern >>> you <<< ..." and definitely to me.

... and the futile squirm ...

"My comment was to Sig, you replied." I replied? Really?

"YOUR comment was to me, I replied." I commented to little Rappy? Really?

Just preserving this for posterity.

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 8:08 AM

America loves a winner!

It's already preserved, but save it again all you want. Pretty clear that you've been called out,and shown to be what you are.

Petty, Suo-SHEE , as it were.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 8:50 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

SignyM

Sorry for derailing your conversation with little Rappy. But anyway, apparently he wasn't interested in continuing any further, because after quoting me, he posted this to *cough ahem* you: "Why are you even responding ? This matter doesn't concern you, and yet you go on to make my point all the more valid."

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 9:06 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Kiki was talking to me not to you, so by your logic.... why did you interject? But IMHO this is an open forum... both Kiki and you are entitled to interject on any point, any time. So as far as I'm concerned... feel free! The more, the merrier.

Anyway, I'm waiting for the link to the latest update. I did a google search and couldn't find anything except a recycling of the same story from over a week ago, which is pretty typical of the media's "echo chamber" effect.

There was nothing in the update, as far as I know, that provided any better or newer information, other than it was labeled as a "update"... as if the author has current information. Yanno... no direct statements from either OWS or the Reverend. So the credibility of this "update" very much depends on the source. So if you have a current source, or at least a source that CLAIMS to be current, please provide the link so I can try to judge the information's truthfulness myself. That will help.

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 9:44 AM

America loves a winner!

Wow... the mental sludge required to even deal w/ you idiots, never mind try to have a coherent conversation....

I asked Sig to grow up, and knock off with this 'son' nonsense.

1kiki piped up, as if the matter in any way involved him/her. ( don't know, don't care ) 1kiki was talking about ME, that's why I responded.

Sig, you made no reply to my comment, other than more childish yapping about this being a free and open forum. *yawn*

Oh, and yes, I DID post the most recent update per that story. Not much has changed, but had you used the link provided, you'd notice the date. It's pretty simple.

There's no change because the story is as the story was reported. Church basin was missing, then found, and in worse shape than it was before. ( read - It was damaged ) Either someone fucked it up on purpose, accident, and then tried to hide the damage, out of guilt. What a novel concept, and in a church, no less. The church figured the item missing had been stolen, but then it turns up. No one fesses to damaging it or hiding it, so the Rev does what any reasonable person would do , and tells the OWS thugs to hit the road. Being the kind soul he his ( read - SUCKER ) he gave them 2 weeks. At any time, he's likely to extend that time period or hold true to his original position.

This isn't a federal crime, there is no need for 27 8x10 glossy pictures, with arrows and circles on the front and a paragraph on the back of each one...

Good lord, the absolute brainless and frantic paranoia being displayed here is completely off the charts.

The list of OWS vandalism, drug use, murders, trash and crime is ever growing. The MO has been well established, and yet, inexplicably, you seem that to feel that THIS incident is worth taking a stand on , for what ends, I have no idea.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 10:06 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Well, see Siggy - you know he's got nothing when he has to post 'I WIN!' and flounce his skirts off in a widdle pout. Which he's done --- TWICE! Apparently the first time he didn't feel like his skirts had the right amount of flounce.

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 12:59 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Thank you for following up, Kiki...I didn't read beyond that, as just scrolling down the second page showed what it had become, but I found your efforts to follow up on the story admirable.

You both do fully realize that any effort whatsoever to refute anything Rap puts up is just an exercise in futuility, tho', right?

Me, I'm not going to bother.

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 6:01 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Rappy- thanks for the link.

Now, here is what is says (as opposed to what you said it says)

Quote:
Clergymen might want to think hard before opening their doors to Occupy Wall Street — unless they like losing property.

It’s a lesson the Rev. Bob Brashear of the West Park Presbyterian Church on the Upper West Side didn’t immediately get.

This month, Brashear noticed that the basin and lid of his baptismal font (worth $12,500) had gone missing.

It was the second major theft since he welcomed the Occupiers to his church after their Zuccotti Park ouster: Three weeks before, his MacBook Air (estimated value: $2,400) vanished into the Occupy ether.

Brashear warned the OWS riffraff against further thefts (the basin was later recovered). Nonetheless, he gave them two more weeks (at least) to stay at the church.

Talk about asking for trouble.

This wasn’t the only time Occupiers showed contempt for houses of worship that welcome them: Rabbi Chaim Gruber, an erstwhile Occupy leader himself, denounced a recent incident where a member urinated on a cross in a Park Slope church.

Everyone knows OWS has no regard for private property; its Zuccotti Park takeover made that plain. Now, it’s clear, church items are fair game, too.

If Brashear wants to let these people stay at West Park, that’s his business. But he might want to bolt everything down first.

DID YOU NOTICE THIS WASN'T AN "UPDATE"? It was just a rehash of the same old story, given a more recent date. So the story hasn't progressed or gotten more credible: still no direct comment from either the Rev or OWS, no police report, no indication of where the reporter "got" his story.

This is a small story, but it's indicative of your problem: you are convinced that this story is 100% true on the basis of.... ? Someone said so? For me, this story is "possibly true", but you seem to have no such category. IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL FOR YOU IF YOU COULD PLACE INFORMATION IN A "PROVISIONAL" CATEGORY WHILE WAITING FOR FURTHER INFORMATION.

Now, if you had been AT ALL diligent in vetting some of your other (more important) pieces of information, you wouldn't find yourself clinging to smelly factoids which even their sources have disavowed.

By the way, rappy, when I call you "son" I think the word you're looking for is "patronizing". And -yes, I am capable of patronizing you, even without using the word. It's not polite, but IMHO its well-deserved. Try to grow up, and I will try to stop patronizing you.

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 6:20 PM

America loves a winner!

There's nothing to indicate that it's not true. There were direct quotes form the Rev, but what do you care ? You're so dedicated to sticking up for the OWS crowd, that no matter what happens, you'll spin, defend, and distort any negative story which comes out.

The cops started it...

There's no in depth quote from the Rev...

There's no quote from the OWS, who really have nothing to say, being embarrassed, I suppose, what CAN they say ?

You insulting me, for only reporting the truth,is telling. It shows what low character you have, that you can't even discuss an issue w/ out getting emotional and personal.

This story really has struck a nerve w/ you, and I think I know why.

And there was no further info given in the update because the story has been already told. The damage is done, the incidents were as they were reported, and there's no ' conspiracy' here to paint events otherwise.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:40 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
There's nothing to indicate that it's not true. There were direct quotes form the Rev, but what do you care ? You're so dedicated to sticking up for the OWS crowd, that no matter what happens, you'll spin, defend, and distort any negative story which comes out.

Actually, if you will scroll ALLLLLL the way up, in my very first post, I said this was probably true. And I have consistently said so throughout this thread. (Can you read?) OTOH, it COULD be entirely made up.

What I've been objecting to all along... which you STILL haven't figured out... is the quality of the information. It's poor enough to put this story into the "possibly true" bucket. Nonetheless, you believe it 100%. That is the problem: Your gullibility for certain things.

So since you were such a wuss, I decided to email the Reverend myself. I was very apologetic, but he answered me very graciously. Let me quote what he said:

"The Occupy group did move the basin and cover. However, it was found very quickly, and although I was rather wroth with them, they will be allowed to stay in my church."

So, there you have it. The REAL story.

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Sunday, January 29, 2012 8:07 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"You both do fully realize that any effort whatsoever to refute anything Rap puts up is just an exercise in futility, tho', right?"

Well, I wasn't doing it for him or because of him. It was interesting to me. The NYPost has an abysmal record for printing false stories. All you have to do is go to factcheck.org, type New York Post into the search bar, and viola - pages and pages and pages of listings of untrue stories. I stopped reading after 3 pages worth, and stopped pasting in the topic listing after 1 - that was the 'cut and paste' I referred to earlier.

So, I was curious to track it down if I could. It was strange to me that CBSNewslocal didn't have an author/ reporter listed, which one finds in any paper, even if it's just Times Staff Writer, or AP, or UPI, or such. But CBSNewslocal didn't respond to my email, and neither did the Post or the police precinct that I assumed was where the church was located.

So, dead ends all around.

But along the way I did find out some interesting history of the Church. It's in a fairly tony area of Manhattan. Originally wealthy, it has since fallen on severely reduced times as attendance has gotten smaller, and deteriorated quite a bit, but has acquired an architectural following, some rich patrons, and been declared a historic building. So, money has been put into restoration, though ambitions at this point far outstrip resources.

Now, there are several conflicting stories about its general relation to the masses. One story is that until a couple of years ago homeless people were allowed to shelter in the church at night. The OTHER version is that they were allowed to sleep in the doorway, certainly an extremely meager act of charity. However, since it's been taken over by the historical interests, there is now a steel grate that blocks the doorway at night. During the day it's open, as any church might be, but apparently the occupiers don't stay there during the day.

From the various stories I've read, when the police dispersed the occupy encampment at Zuccotti Park (also in Manhattan) a lot of chronically homeless people who usually squatted in the park were also displaced, and drifted in with the occupy group. Estimates are about 30% of the group consists of the chronically homeless. In terms of nuisance factor, it's the homeless people who seem to be generating the most problems, though the occupy group is not interested in either chasing them away or controlling them.

It's an interesting story, more complex and nuanced than the reportage indicates, certainly more complex and nuanced than little Rappy could wrap his mind around.

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Monday, January 30, 2012 7:56 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

So since you were such a wuss, I decided to email the Reverend myself. I was very apologetic, but he answered me very graciously. Let me quote what he said:

"The Occupy group did move the basin and cover. However, it was found very quickly, and although I was rather wroth with them, they will be allowed to stay in my church."

So, there you have it. The REAL story.

I actually e-mailed the reporter, but since I received no reply, didn't think it was worth bringing up.

What the Rev said matches what I said is what likely did happen. Which, from reading the story, is what I was able to deduce, from what was reported, which also was the REAL story. Here's what I said, yesterday, before your above reply...

" Church basin was missing, then found, and in worse shape than it was before. ( read - It was damaged ) Either someone fucked it up on purpose, accident, and then tried to hide the damage, out of guilt. What a novel concept, and in a church, no less. The church figured the item missing had been stolen, but then it turns up. No one fesses to damaging it or hiding it, so the Rev does what any reasonable person would do , and tells the OWS thugs to hit the road. Being the kind soul he his ( read - SUCKER ) he gave them 2 weeks. At any time, he's likely to extend that time period or hold true to his original position. "

All this fussing by you has been for absolutely nothing.

The one thing I didn't suggest was that there would be another option, where the Rev. gets all forgiving on the OWS folks, and allow them to stay, after all. Maybe the threat of being thrown out on their collective asses was enough to wake them up, I don't know. Don't care either. Doesn't change the original story one bit.

I do think it cool that the Rev used the word ' wroth ' .

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, January 30, 2012 8:04 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yeah, Kiki...aside from what you said I realize several of us bother looking up facts, etc., to show others the truth and refute Rap's transparent attempts to blacken anything he doesn't like. Didn't know this one was because it interested you, but I know about that too...sometimes stuff I look up to see if it's true or not turns out to be educational for me, as well.

My remarks are just to remind everyone the reality of the situation, and I'll continue making them. They're not really aimed at anyone in particular, but I appreciate your explanation and your efforts, I appreciate both--I KNOW you (and Mike, and Blue, etc.) are aware of the situation, I'll just continue being the "reminder voice".

The fact that the homeless aren't chased off is partly because Occupy is about THEM, too, and the camps can offer any shelter, food, medical treatment, etc. (as they have been) to the homeless is more a priority than the bad press they give OWS--which anyone not affiliated with the group would do anyway. Yes, they have been an inconvenience as much of what they (as well as others who have glomed onto OWS) do has been unfortunate, but unless we play by TPTB's rules, that's always going to happen. It gives fodder to the news, which prints what TPTB wants anyway; that's just how it is. I don't blame anyone for them being told to leave; it's only sensible when one can't determine who is an actual OWS and who's not, that there will be elements which will cause trouble, and of course they should protect their church.

Personally I doubt either of the incidents chronicled had anything to do with actual OWS people, bus aside from poining out facts, I'm not about to get into it with our village idiot.

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Monday, January 30, 2012 8:08 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:

I realize several of us bother looking up facts, etc., to show others the truth and refute Rap's transparent attempts to blacken anything he doesn't like.

Niki, nothing has refuted what I said, or how the story was originally reported.

You failed, yet once again.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, January 30, 2012 8:22 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

OK, and NOW RAPPY:

A demonstration of your gullibility: EVERYTHING I QUOTED WAS MADE UP.

So, here's the lesson: CHECK YOUR SOURCES. BELIEVE NOTHING.

Sorry to be such a tool, and I apologize profusely, but I'm trying to get you to wake the hell up: ANYONE CAN SAY ANYTHING. THEY CAN EVEN PUT QUOTES AROUND IT. THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE. Please, please, please- you know what they say: believe nothing of what you hear (or learn from others) and only half of what you see. Everyone who writes or edits a story has an ax to grind. They ARE trying to manipulate you, it's their job. I have known people who make up statistics on the spot and quoted studies which never existed:

Say, did you know that Dr Thomas Bellwhether did a study that showed that 56% of statistics are made up on the spot?

You need to be aware that you are being manipulated, it would also help you to understand what direction that manipulation is coming from. If that means that 99% of what you learn about goes into the "provisional" bucket... well, the better for you, then!

As for the story itself, its still in my "probably true" category. There are parts that are probably true, parts that are probably wrong, but in my book not "100% true in all its details".

Again, profound apologies.

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Monday, January 30, 2012 8:32 AM

America loves a winner!

You're not a reporter, and I took you at your word.

I'll never do that again.

Thanks.

And unlike you, I actually DID write the reporter an e-mail, asking to see the letter from Rabbi Gruber

Quote:

to: cgiove@nypost.com
date: Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 1:45 PM
subject: Rabbi Gruber letter abandoning OWS
mailed-by: gmail.com

Is that letter posted anywhere online ? Or can a text version be sent to me ? Just curious.

Thanks.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, January 30, 2012 8:36 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oh Sig, that truly WAS a waste of typing time! You of all people know by now that not a single word you wrote will ever make any impression on Rap or anyone who posts shit because it's what they want or NEED to believe. I'm surprised at you, you know he will defend to the death ANY stand he takes or ANYTHING he quotes or ANY cite he offers; it's how he gets people to respond and.or what he NEEDS to believe is true. He either doesn't care or doesn't know he's being manipulated--or both. Equally he will refute and/or mock anything anyone provides which casts ANY doubt on ANYTHING he posts. Just remindin'. (Tho' I did find your apologies a giggle.)

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Monday, January 30, 2012 8:38 AM

America loves a winner!

Niki,

You know that not to be the truth.

Go feed your dogs or something.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, January 30, 2012 8:38 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yeah, waste of time. If someone had done that to me, I think I would have seen "news" in a whole new light. *Sigh.*

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Monday, January 30, 2012 9:00 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Go feed your dogs or something.

Now THERE's your 12-year-old "mental maturity" at work.

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Monday, January 30, 2012 9:07 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Yeah, waste of time. If someone had done that to me, I think I would have seen "news" in a whole new light. *Sigh.*

Sig, fyi

YOU aren't news.

And Niki, I'm just talking down to the level of my audience.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, January 30, 2012 11:01 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Rappy, the one time you take me at my word is the one time I actually deliberately lied. Really, I'm very sorry for pulling such a dirty trick, but people lie. Reporters, Presidents, Democrats. liberals, even Republicans and AM radio hosts. If you give people a "pass" because they're reporters, or experts, or (god forbid) politicians, you are giving them way more credibility than they deserve.

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Monday, January 30, 2012 11:25 AM

America loves a winner!

You're going over what's already been discussed, long ago,in this thread.

I really wonder why you won't just let this thing go.

It is what it is. Deal w/ it and move on.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, January 30, 2012 11:31 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"It is what it is."

But not what YOU say it is.

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Monday, January 30, 2012 11:46 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

It is what it is, but almost never like we think.

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Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:07 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"It is what it is."

But not what YOU say it is.

List the differences from what it IS and what I said it was.

How is the story different from what was posted ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, January 31, 2012 4:53 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
OK, and NOW RAPPY:

A demonstration of your gullibility: EVERYTHING I QUOTED WAS MADE UP.

So, here's the lesson: CHECK YOUR SOURCES. BELIEVE NOTHING.

At Rappy....

That is all!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:32 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Wait a minute Signe, so are you saying that the letter you got back wasn't a real letter, it was a letter that you made up to trick Raptor? How can I trust you if you quote made up letters about stuff? (perplexed)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:36 PM

DALEK!

That was the point, don't trust anyone. Always verify.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:45 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Yeah but we're friends here and if you make crap up then when you want to say something real later no one will believe you. Why do I feel like I'm talking to six year olds? The boy who cried wolf anyone?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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