REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

What's the deal with KPO?

POSTED BY: HKCAVALIER
UPDATED: Friday, June 7, 2013 09:26
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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:21 AM

HKCAVALIER


Hey everybody,

I don't know what KPO thought he was doing starting that attack thread on Jongsstraw (couldn't even be bothered to spell the man's handle correctly). And yes, it was a (passive aggressive, to be sure) attack thread. You start a thread where you invite a bunch of people who've made their contempt for Jongsstraw abundantly clear to speculate on what happened to make him so impolite. Gee, what could it be??? How do y'all miss that the thread title answers its own question? It really disgusts me sometimes the way the lefties hereabout claim the moral high ground in one breath and then endlessly demean and objectify the right-leaning posters with whom they share this board in the next.

I don't know how the right-wing folks do it. I mean, how they put up with the ENDLESS insults and petty-ass namecalling. "Raptard?" Really? What the fuck kind of way is that to talk to another human being? And the "Little Rappy's" and even "Jongsie's" that y'all throw around and then you turn around and expect to be treated only with respect in return?

Y'know what happened? I'm thinking Jongs got fed up with being treated like the token semi-human conservative on the board. It is disgusting that you should expect civility from ANYONE when you treat them so poorly, so entirely dismissively.

Y'know, when I address a post of mine to Jongsstraw, he almost always replies and when he does, he does so with all the grace and civility I could hope for. I think it might just be because I don't treat the man like ambulatory shit.

You want to be treated right? Treat people right. Period, end of story.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:27 AM

BYTEMITE


This is fair.

I approached the thread with an actual attempt at bridge mending, but having misread KPO's intentions, I am now less able to mediate with Jongstraw because I now appear insincere. A ration of very similar malicious threads demanding explanations from other board members has become a warning sign for conservatives to stay clear or prepare to fight. And then when they rightfully suspect that they'll get attacked if they post there, the other board members call them cowards and liars for refusing to walk into an obvious trap.

I have perhaps more issues with you than anyone else here, HK - you're in a group of three people who I avoid replying to their posts. But in this case it was necessary. You might be the only one who can be successful now at restoring some semblance of okayness around the board.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:55 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


I bear Jongs no ill will (on the contrary, I've always kinda liked him); I just want to know what his current deal is.

Quote:

Y'know what happened? I'm thinking Jongs got fed up with being treated like the token semi-human conservative on the board.

This speculation belongs in the Jongsstraw thread, not the kpo thread.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:02 AM

BYTEMITE


Well, no, it doesn't, because it's not meaning to explain Jongstraw's behaviour but rather call you guys out.

Jongstraw doesn't have to justify himself anymore than any of you do, but you feel like you get the privilege of demanding a justification... Why exactly?

Because you were picking a fight. Whether or not you realized it.

I see now that this is where I went wrong with Jongstraw, whatever insights I might've thought I had. I am again sorry for my contributions to that fight.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:29 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Since I've been coming to this boards, the venom has definitely been coming from both right and left.

Did you miss the 'libtards' 'feminazis' 'libs hate freedom, work, babies' comments?

Not saying that justifies doing it, but it definitely has not been a 'left attack right board'.

What I have noticed is there are few right winged posters who post intelligently. Jongs used to be one of them.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:42 AM

BYTEMITE


Oh, certainly. But whenever I talk to some of the people on the left about the kind of stuff they say to the right wing, (you aren't among them as far as I can tell Magons), the response I get back is that the right wing has said far worse things to them.

And Wulf did once call someone on the left something I won't repeat here, and often expresses a wish that person should die. That is inappropriate. But you know what else is inappropriate? Telling Wulf that he should "stop breeding" or that his daughter is screwed because he's her father. Expressing a wish that Wulf might shoot himself someday because he loves his guns so much.

So it isn't about who said the worst thing, it's about not insulting other people just because they disagree. Not calling them liars or cowards if they aren't able to explain their opinion to the satisfaction of people who will probably never be satisfied by their explanation, or if they ignore something their side considers irrelevant, but the other side believes causes their argument to fall apart. Not provoking people into a fight so they act out and confirm some existing prejudice so people feel like they have a free pass to abuse them. It doesn't convince anyone, doesn't help the argument, it just makes things around here hostile, until there aren't any talking points or discussions except for left wing versus right wing.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 12:15 PM

KIRKULES


Most of the regulars in RWED are capable of semi-civil conversation, but there are less than a half a dozen that are only here to fan the flames. They enjoy the fights more than the discussion and never have any serious contribution to the current topic. I think if the people on the left and right made a list of the flame faners we'd probably agree on four out of six. I've been in some pretty serious flame wars around here in the past and you can tell who the serious posters here are by the way they treat you in the next thread after a flame war. For most all is forgiven an forgotten in the next thread, but of course the few insist on battles being carried thread to thread. I think the most helpful thing which I know is impossible for me is to just ignore the few and only respond to those that have made a serious attempt at discussing the current subject. I know this has been suggested many times and will never happen, but as much as I love a good flame war they do become tiresome.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 12:25 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Well, no, it doesn't, because it's not meaning to explain Jongstraw's behaviour but rather call you guys out.

Jongstraw doesn't have to justify himself anymore than any of you do, but you feel like you get the privilege of demanding a justification... Why exactly?

Because you were picking a fight. Whether or not you realized it.

I see now that this is where I went wrong with Jongstraw, whatever insights I might've thought I had. I am again sorry for my contributions to that fight.


Please don't be so melodramatic Byte. None of it is a big deal. It's actually all a bit ridiculous. So relax, you've been fair and I like you.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 12:29 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Please don't be so melodramatic Byte. None of it is a big deal. It's actually all a bit ridiculous.


I sometimes *DO* kinda do that... >_> v_v

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 12:29 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:

Hey everybody,

I don't know what KPO thought he was doing starting that attack thread on Jongsstraw (couldn't even be bothered to spell the man's handle correctly). And yes, it was a (passive aggressive, to be sure) attack thread. You start a thread where you invite a bunch of people who've made their contempt for Jongsstraw abundantly clear to speculate on what happened to make him so impolite. Gee, what could it be??? How do y'all miss that the thread title answers its own question? It really disgusts me sometimes the way the lefties hereabout claim the moral high ground in one breath and then endlessly demean and objectify the right-leaning posters with whom they share this board in the next.

I don't know how the right-wing folks do it. I mean, how they put up with the ENDLESS insults and petty-ass namecalling. "Raptard?" Really? What the fuck kind of way is that to talk to another human being? And the "Little Rappy's" and even "Jongsie's" that y'all throw around and then you turn around and expect to be treated only with respect in return?

Y'know what happened? I'm thinking Jongs got fed up with being treated like the token semi-human conservative on the board. It is disgusting that you should expect civility from ANYONE when you treat them so poorly, so entirely dismissively.

Y'know, when I address a post of mine to Jongsstraw, he almost always replies and when he does, he does so with all the grace and civility I could hope for. I think it might just be because I don't treat the man like ambulatory shit.

You want to be treated right? Treat people right. Period, end of story.



Brilliant! Inspired! I'm quite verklempt after reading your words. Nothing else to say except Thank You.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:54 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Just to be clear Jongs, I'm not trying to 'attack' you - certainly not in any injurious way. However I do think you deserve a slap for your recent spamming behaviour (and before you or anyone says it, no Niki doesn't do the same thing).

In other words act like Whozit or PN, and that's how I'll treat you.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:57 PM

MAL4PREZ


HKC:

We're like the stereotype of an Italian family, those of use who've known each other a long time. Yes, there is mean crap said often, and some of it crosses a line.

What I've come to peace with is that most of the mud slinging is between those who willingly and repeatedly climb into the mud pit. I see Rappy and Jongs as folk who get off on the attacks aimed their way, because they do all they can to incite it. So I don't feel bad saying crap to them. I believe they are dishonest as to how they present themselves here. They are artificial personalities. The months and years of insults they've "endured" don't hurt them because the characters they play here aren't real.

On the other hand, Wulf, as much as he drives me nuts, I see as a real person. The crap said to him was indeed beyond the line of acceptable. Because it really does apply.

I've had my own moments of disgust with this place and how we treat each other, but I think I've actually learned a lot from it. There's no other place where I can let go of restraint and tell someone (or some construction) exactly what I think of them. And then I have to deal with the consequences. I can't safely do this in real life.

I value this site as a place to experiment. In RWED I've learned to trust my gut. My gut has very specific things to say about the likes of Rappy and Jongs, among others.

I really do like you and I'm sad that this has been upsetting. I understand. And yet, I make no promises to change. Sorry. As long as these posters continue to act as they do, my reaction is the same:

Whole hearted mockage.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:12 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Does all of this conversation mean there is any chance at least SOME of us can back off and make yet another attempt to be somewhat civil? Would be real nice if that were the case; I'm trying, in my way, and I'd absolutely adore some company.

Just a thought, NOTHING MORE.


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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:11 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Jongs made a point of flooding the board with posts he never intended to discuss - not for discussion just for disruption and starting flame wars.

What really pissed me off was when SignyM apologized TO HIM >AFTER HE MADE VILE ACCUSATIONS< about her ...

http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=54929&mid=
936771



Jongdick

"That's funny Signy. Feel free to try any time you want. I put up about 50 threads in 3 days. That's 17 per day, which is less than one per hour. But you and I know that's not your real beef. You just hate any opposition to anything you believe. You're the single most intolerant person in the history of this place. You loathe the threads I put up because every title stung you to the bone. In fact, you pretty much hid under your rock the whole time, only occasionally popping your head out to see if the coast was clear.


SignyM

Is that what you really think, Jongsstraw?

Yanno, I have a job. Hubby was REALLY sick the past few weeks, trending into toxic shock. Daughter is brain damaged, and needs more than the average amount of attention. We've had three plumbing problems in one week. AND, I planted my veggie garden (Kind of spur of the moment, but what the hay!) All of this is to say: I have a life, and haven't had all that much time to spend here in the past two months, because when I spend time here I'm probably neglecting something else. I can't POSSIBLY respond to 17 posts in one day. If you had LEFT it at 17 posts, I MIGHT have caught up with it, but responding to all 45 posts??? Are you out of your mind? I can't do it...



Jongdick

I apologize for my words Signy. I can't take them back, but I'd like to. Sorry for your personal troubles. Everything you said had truth in it. I went way over a line that you and I have sort of lived with for a long time. Again, I apologize for it.



Apparently it takes a servile apology to Jongdick after he makes vile statements about you to get into his good graces.

>>> REALLY HKC? <<<

Where was your outrage then?

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:24 PM

BYTEMITE


Vile accusation? Do you remember what HK said to me not too long ago, or am I the only one who remembers? Oh wait, I'm the only one who cares, of course. No outrage on my behalf, only outrage for people who aren't me.

And you know what? Good. Because I don't really need people constantly going after HK and slamming him for me. It's unnecessary. And whatever problems I have with HK is not ANYONE else's problem.

If you think what Jongstraw said to someone else is so bad even after he apologized for it, then ignore him. Don't demand apologies, don't talk to him. Instead of escalating things, calling him "Jongdick". That is just not the way to handle it.

If I can take the higher road after what HK said to me, then so can the rest of you for something like being called "intolerant". I have been called closed minded and intolerant SOOO many times. Been called a coward. Called passive aggressive. Called a stupid kid with no wisdom of my own. Shit, I'm used to it! I even play into what other people think of me now because hell, I might as well!

But do you see me calling for backup when I get insulted? Do you see me going after people to perpetuate insult wars for weeks to months on end that pull in the entire BOARD? I don't have to get people back. I don't have to pepper them with constant insults over a grudge that started years ago. They are not a worthless person because they just offended and insulted me.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


BYTE: Whoa there, Bytemite! "People constantly going after HKC" becauz he stood up for you???
Really???
Not me! I have a life to live! I daresay most people do. Please do not be so melodramatic about your role here... or, anywhere, for that matter.

HKC: Jonggstraw has taken two significant deviations here: (1) behaving like a drunken poster (2) posting like a curmudgeonly but even-handed conservative and (3) posting like an irrational drunkard, again. I too have wondered "Whassup with Jongssie?" Not that I think we'll ever find out, but that doesn't make the question any less true.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:47 PM

BYTEMITE


HK?! Stood up for me?! Hahahahahaha

Hahaha

That's a funny way to put it. Hilarious in fact. He stood up for me so well that I VOWED NEVER TO TALK TO THE GUY AGAIN.

Suffice to say, there is pretty unequal amounts of outrage that I see on display here, tough luck for the less popular board members who have to go it alone. And there is rarely ever rightful outrage on behalf of someone from the opposite side.

But I suppose that no one knows what I'm talking about. So this is kind of an interesting situation. You think that Jongstraw calling someone intolerant and then APOLOGIZING even rates among the worst things anyone has ever said on this board and so it justifies this kind of back and forth?

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:50 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

HK?! Stood up for me?! Hahahahahaha Hahaha
Okay, then. Well, at least you get an idea where this board rates on my scale of 1-10! Really BYTE, I kinda like you, but I have no time to keep up with the back-and-forth.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:57 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Really BYTE, I kinda like you, but I have no time to keep up with the back-and-forth.


Well, sure. You have friends who can help you.

Those of us black sheep don't have that kind of luxury.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Do you remember what HK said to me not too long ago, or am I the only one who remembers?"

No, I don't remember. I'm often gone. Aside from that my memory is laughably poor. Do you remember, was I around and posting around that time, or MIA?

"But do you see me calling for backup when I get insulted?"

SignyM didn't 'call for backup' either. I posted this on MY OWN BEHALF to show what I think of his dickness.

BTW - in case no one remembers, let me reiterate once again - I'm not a liberal. I'm not a progressive. I don't claim the moral high ground. I don't even pretend to think about trying to be sweetness and light.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:18 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

No, I don't remember. I'm often gone. Aside from that my memory is laughably poor. Do you remember, was I around and posting around that time, or MIA?


You were there. I dropped SEVERAL F-bombs. But then, considering what I was being accused of, a few F-bombs were kind of warranted.

Things between me and HK had never really been good, we aren't able to see eye to eye. But being accused of lying about a personal experience like that, and being told that I ENABLE that kind of thing was pretty much the worst thing anyone has ever said to me.

I've actually had the PRIVILEGE of hearing that same accusation directed my way THREE TIMES over the course of my time here. I guess I'm just lucky.

The people who have said these things to me I hate with a surprising ferocity. And yet I do not express this by insulting them ALL the TIME. I imagine they don't even know how much I hate them - well, except HK, because I've made it pretty blatant now.

Quote:


SignyM didn't 'call for backup' either. I posted this on MY OWN BEHALF to show what I think of his dickness.



Fair enough, no back up was called. Sig warrants this kind of response because you're her friend. It is clear to me that I do not.

There's a commentary here about division lines that can be made. Point stands.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:33 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


BYTE- like I said, I kinda like you. But I have to make choices... time choices, emotional choices... between those to whom I OWE my attention (like, my daughter, who didn't ask to be born and specifically didn't ask to be born brain-damaged), those who offer me real affirmative help, and those that I would LIKE to contact but are just barely out of reach. I'm sorry, hon. I feel like our fingers touch from time to time, when the whirpool of life's events bring us a little closer, but then you get too far out of reach. I admire your ZING!. Please understand that if I could offer friendship or peace, I would, but family, love, and bonds lie elsewhere.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"But being accused of lying about a personal experience like that, and being told that I ENABLE that kind of thing was pretty much the worst thing anyone has ever said to me."

AH! NOW I remember. I recall it being a very very strange set of communications. I tried but didn't really 'get' what either of you were posting about. Tho I assumed the two of you knew since there was back-and-forth. (As a complete aside, I've had similar situations happen in the past IRL. People will say things and, while I know the words, the fact that it's a topic makes no sense to me. WHY would someone say THAT? It makes what they say uninterpretable to me.)

"Sig warrants this kind of response because you're her friend. It is clear to me that I do not."

We haven't really had a very long association. Some things happen with time. It's not a slam on you.

The other part is that I really despise Jong. So there were two impulses going on in me in that incident between SignyM and Jong, a push and a pull.

HKC in your case had me mostly baffled. As I posted above, I mostly didn't get it.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:13 PM

HKCAVALIER


Aw geez. Sorry folks, obviously LOTS to talk about and I will, but before this Byte thing goes any further, I just gotta say:

1.) Byte, thanks for the vote of confidence at the top of the thread. I know that was hard for you to say and it means a lot to me that you would say it.

2.) Byte, you can dig up the entire conversation and you will not find that I accused you of lying about any abuse you experienced. I said you were talking about rape like someone who had no idea what she was talking about. Which is to say, frivolously, glibly, luridly. I asked you to stop doing that. Only afterward did you reveal that you had in actuality been assaulted, but by that time you'd already said your fuck you's to me and you were aggressively misunderstanding every word I wrote, so even though the misunderstanding was particularly grave and hurtful there seemed little point in trying to dissuade you. I am genuinely sorry that this has brought so much grief into your life and that you've decided to hate another person. Particularly, when the hate, from where I'm sitting, seems to be based on simple misunderstanding.

Anyway, sorry, folks, that's all I have time for right now.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:50 AM

BYTEMITE


Um, no.

But I'm not going to argue about it, because I have no interest in an apology. Not the one you just offered - which, I note, holds me entirely to blame for what happened - nor any other.

The point is, I don't insult you all the time, despite having reason to feel an extreme amount of animosity towards you.

Having calmed down a bit, it appears I might have to face the concept that the fights that the left and right get into might be just as painful as being called what I was... And ultimately what matters is that hurt was inflicted, and not the quantity, degree, or type of insult.

So, I suppose I should rescind my example, and apologize to 1kiki and Sig.

(and for further clarity - I do still think of most people here as friends, and that all of YOU could be friends too. I just have no hopes of ever having the friendship I feel returned by anyone)

Since this argument of mine has fallen through, I am unsure what approach can next be taken for this thread, to discourage the back and forth that has been seen and try to mend some of the damage that has resulted in this situation. You probably have better ideas, HK - and people are more likely to listen to you because you aren't a fuming she-bitch rage ball.

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:18 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

1.) Byte, thanks for the vote of confidence at the top of the thread. I know that was hard for you to say and it means a lot to me that you would say it.

I was surprised as well, but then I realised Byte was probably trying to stick up for Jongsstraw.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:23 PM

BYTEMITE


I posted in response to HK because he was trying to make a point about how the behaviour on this board breeds hostility and I agreed with it - much to my DISTASTE, but then, the people we hate aren't always wrong.

I said what I did to you because if someone from the right made a thread demanding that YOU explain your opinions and behaviour and asked what your deal/problem was in the title, you'd feel like it was an attack on you.

If I was just trying to stand up for Jongstraw, I wouldn't have posted a thread a week ago calling him out for what he's been doing. Rather I'm interested in standing up for all of you. None of you deserves what you call each other or how you treat each other.

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:33 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Byte, none of what you wrote in either thread went un-noticed, and for what it's worth, you and HK have earned a lifetime pass from me. Anything either of you post in the future, regardless of content and tone, will be accepted in good faith.

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:42 PM

BYTEMITE


And I'm still sorry about how I approached that. And... Well maybe all of this. I kinda suck at being an intermediary. I use my personal experiences as examples to try to help me identify with people and hope that by doing so they feel that connection. But I know that it probably gets really tiresome hearing me talk about me, me, me all the time especially because it often accidentally leads to some serious thread hijacking. That's never what I intend to happen, but I get carried away with how I'm feeling sometimes.

And so I should apologize to HK too at least about this.

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:43 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


I'm always happy to explain my opinions and/or behaviour. But then again I don't troll and spam the forum... If I did, I would expect to have to answer for my actions.

Quote:

you'd feel like it was an attack on you.

I'm quite indifferent to people attacking me; I generally find it amusing. However people ascribing false motivations to me is disappointing.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 3:20 PM

BYTEMITE


"Whether you realized it or not." I'm guessing by your reaction that's a not.

But, in that case, I suppose I did accuse you unfairly. You're right, I'm also sorry to you as well.

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 8:33 PM

HKCAVALIER


Okay. A few things then.

KPO, you can claim you have no ill will, but if you're really so insensitive that you would start a thread inviting Jongsstraw's enemies to psychoanalyze him and not expect him to take it the wrong way, I can't see your lack of ill will doing much good. If you hang out with, joke along with and generally have a grand old time with Jongsstraw's enemies and you don't expect him to react to you as another enemy, you're kidding yourself.

To me, a person who has no ill will towards another ASKS THAT PERSON what's wrong. And if that person doesn't want to tell him, then he drops it. He doesn't start discussing the other person with a bunch of strangers in front of him. So, your lack of ill will seems to include a lack of awareness of the obvious consequences of your actions. From where I sit, ill will would be an improvement.

And Magons. Hi. I know well that this is not a "left attack right board." I know the right has been extremely venomous this whole time. I would even go so far as to venture that they may even be more venomous than the left, when it's all said and done. ;)

What I'm objecting to is embodied in KPO's thread "What's the deal with Jongstraw?" Nobody on the right is starting threads wondering why, say, Chrisisall got all nasty all of a sudden. They don't pretend to be all nice as pie when the left turns up the vitriol. But KPO did. And then folks started to earnestly speculate on Jongsstraw's mental state. I found it a little disgusting. An escalation of the problem disguised as friendly concern.

Oh, and no, KPO, my li'l sketch of why I would imagine ANYONE might turn nasty does not belong in your thread. To my mind, nothing belongs in that thread. I think that thread was a terrible idea.

Mal4, I got no beef with you. Shine on.

Signy, 1k: you guys are fine. You guys don't play particularly nice and you don't expect anyone to treat you nicely in return. I do think constantly demeaning other people with objectifying nicknames serves only to dehumanize the person you're talking to and creates a toxic environment. Nothing good comes of it and it makes you look like bullies, regardless of how much the other guy "deserves" it. Escalation is innevitable. But I've sung this song before. I'm sure you're tired of hearing it.

And oh, gosh, 1k, I'm not outraged at anyone for being nasty. Jongsstraw made his bed and he's gotta lie in it. The "What's the deal with Jongstraw?" thread struck me as so over-the-top condescending and "concerned" for poor, misguided, li'l Jongs that I had to say something.

And finally, to clarify, Byte: I wasn't apologizing to you in my last post. I don't make half-assed, backhanded apologies. Now that I'm one of the three most evil people in your cosmos, I don't think there's any room for, nor any call for an apology. I was expressing my sorrow that you are wasting so much of your energy hating me for something I simply didn't. Ever. Do.

You are absolutely free to believe whatever you please. You just made a big stink about it here in this thread, speaking of the horrible accusation I made against you as if it were a fact and. It ain't. It just ain't a fact.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 2:00 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

if you're really so insensitive that you would start a thread inviting Jongsstraw's enemies to psychoanalyze him

I asked 'What's the deal with Jongsstraw?', and speculated that there was some kind of sockpuppet behaviour going on. 'Inviting Jongsstraw's enemies...' -- you're over-dramatising.

Quote:

If you hang out with, joke along with and generally have a grand old time with Jongsstraw's enemies

'If' being the operative word here, because I've never done that. I started the thread out of curiosity about Jongsstraw and his erratic behaviour. Insensitive? Maybe. But I don't usually deal sensitively with trolls.

Quote:

Nobody on the right is starting threads wondering why, say, Chrisisall got all nasty all of a sudden.

But if he did, they might. Why can't you see that?

Quote:

And then folks started to earnestly speculate on Jongsstraw's mental state. I found it a little disgusting.

If Jongs doesn't want his issues speculated on, he shouldn't spread them all over our board. If there are no serious issues, there's no real harm done.

Quote:

Oh, and no, KPO, my li'l sketch of why I would imagine ANYONE might turn nasty does not belong in your thread.

It wasn't a reference to 'anybody' it was specific commentary on Jongs' behaviour. Go back and read what you wrote.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 3:48 AM

HKCAVALIER


One thing: Chrisisall did get extremely vituperative for a little while just this last year. And they didn't make such a thread.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 5:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

One thing: Chrisisall did get extremely vituperative for a little while just this last year. And they didn't make such a thread.
CHRIS didn't spam the board with zillions of threads he had no intention of discussing, after basically saying that if the threads don't get answered then the lefties here are hypocrites. I know, because I DID answer many of his threads, and where was Jongsstraw?? Nowhere, that's where.

By anyone's definition, HKC, that's trolling and an abuse of the board. That's beyond vituperative. And if it had gone on much longer, I would have emailed Haken- I had the email in my drafts folder, waiting and ready to go. Jongsstraw GOT THE ATTENTION HE WANTED and was so clearly asking for.

Now, personally, it seems to me that at least two of the righties here- rappy and lil jongsie- are here JUST to get attention. It's unconscious trolling, as far as I can tell. My personal suggestion is to deny them the attention and turmoil they so clearly crave, and simply put them in "time out". But it would take the cooperation of pretty much everyone here to make that effective, so I've taken to ignoring most of their posts most of the time.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 6:39 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

You are absolutely free to believe whatever you please. You just made a big stink about it here in this thread, speaking of the horrible accusation I made against you as if it were a fact and. It ain't. It just ain't a fact.


I can not BELIEVE, even now, that you're denying what you did, that you won't even admit that you CONTINUED making insinuations WELL after I dropped my F-bombs and I talked about my own experiences. I would take this to PM if I thought it would change anything. But it won't.

I'll admit that I said some things to you that weren't justified. Comparing my treatment to the way people who have been attacked are often silenced, disbelieved, and ridiculed for example, and my statements that kind of treatment can be just as bad as the original attack. And perhaps even the F-bombs, even though NO that WASN'T me promoting violence against you and it's still insulting you even said that.

Perhaps this is the reason it's as hard for you to apologize to me as me apologizing to you or saying words of support to you. I've known for a while just how broken things are, and so I avoided you and refused to talk to you.

That said, maybe before you go attacking KPO, you oughta look in a mirror.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 7:36 AM

MAL4PREZ


Byte, I seem to have been able to be a voice of reason to you in the past, I hope this post is taken that way too. First, I must repeat something I've told you before, though I don't think it gets through.

Everything we experience goes through a filter, and your filter has a pretty big "Byte is unlikeable" slant. You say you are friends to others but they aren't your friends back. I consider myself your friend, though I don't know if you'll accept it. My friendship does not gel with what you believe to be reality. You think you can't be liked, therefore me calling myself your friend must some other motive. Right? And perhaps you even take it to the next step that if I'm trying to be your friend, I must just not know you, so you'll show me. And then Bytemonster comes out!

Back to your filter: it has the unfortunate effect that just about any statement made on this board about you may seem like an attack. You just can't imagine that anyone would do anything but attack you. That isn't real, hon. You are in essence attacking yourself, and missing out on the large amount of good will there is toward you. Really, there is. I see tons of both respect and caring for you.

Regarding HKC, I see that your hackles are up and believe me I understand what happens when someone touches that particular nerve. But I was there for that thread, and I do not believe he had the intention of saying what you heard. I say this not to protect him (he doesn't need me for that) but in hopes that you will find a way to let this go. This grudge only makes your filter stronger and puts you deeper in that hole you're in.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 7:46 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

One thing: Chrisisall did get extremely vituperative for a little while just this last year. And they didn't make such a thread.
CHRIS didn't spam the board with zillions of threads he had no intention of discussing, after basically saying that if the threads don't get answered then the lefties here are hypocrites. I know, because I DID answer many of his threads, and where was Jongsstraw?? Nowhere, that's where.

By anyone's definition, HKC, that's trolling and an abuse of the board. That's beyond vituperative. And if it had gone on much longer, I would have emailed Haken- I had the email in my drafts folder, waiting and ready to go. Jongsstraw GOT THE ATTENTION HE WANTED and was so clearly asking for.

Now, personally, it seems to me that at least two of the righties here- rappy and lil jongsie- are here JUST to get attention. It's unconscious trolling, as far as I can tell. My personal suggestion is to deny them the attention and turmoil they so clearly crave, and simply put them in "time out". But it would take the cooperation of pretty much everyone here to make that effective, so I've taken to ignoring most of their posts most of the time.


What a load of crap! Just like everyone else here, I respond to those I want to, when I want to. If you're not getting a response...well that's just too damn bad. Grow up.


"Y'know, when I address a post of mine to Jongsstraw, he almost always replies and when he does, he does so with all the grace and civility I could hope for." - HKCavalier 5/29/13

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Friday, May 31, 2013 7:55 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Perhaps this is the reason it's as hard for you to apologize to me as me apologizing to you or saying words of support to you. I've known for a while just how broken things are, and so I avoided you and refused to talk to you.

Byte. It isn't hard for me to apologize to you. I've done it plenty of times over the years here. I'm simply not apologizing for this extraordinary distortion of yours. And as far as you apologizing to me, for what it's worth, I don't feel any need or desire for you to do so. You haven't wronged me, you have only been wrong about me.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 7:59 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Oh, and no, KPO, my li'l sketch of why I would imagine ANYONE might turn nasty does not belong in your thread.

It wasn't a reference to 'anybody' it was specific commentary on Jongs' behaviour. Go back and read what you wrote.

And this: KPO, you're missing my point by a mile. I wasn't sketching Jongs' behavior, I was imagining myself in his position. I was imagining that it might piss me off to be condescended to so unctuously. Anyone in that position might get pissed off. There's a big difference between what I did (empathizing) and what you're talking about.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 8:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


What a fascinating thread...sadly so, unfortunately, in my opinion. Byte, you are filled with so much hate, and you take things so personally, and judge people so determinedly, it amazes me.

Seriously, if anyone here had any right to bitch and moan about being "abused", who do you think it would be? Who has had NUMEROUS threads put up about them BY NAME, and had their mental state not just questioned, but QUITE blatantly challenged? Who has come in for the absolutely VILEST death wishes, rape wishes and other such things of anyone on this board?? I have never, ever, seen you attacked in anything like as serious a fashion as I have been, but somehow you've managed to amass a lot of "ferocious hate" and "enemies" and so forth; again, I sincerely wish you didn't take this place so to heart. I don't "hate" anyone here; the trick is to "hate" what someone says or does, not the person; there is good and bad in every single person here.

We have misunderstandings; sometime they lead to angry exchanges, but I've pointed out, quite clearly recently, numerous time when you've assumed things which simply weren't true. Given that, I keep wishing it might occur to you that something you perceive/remember might not be what the person intended, or even what they wrote, but how you perceived it at the time, and that perception got cemented into "memory". I've never seen Cav get truly nasty to anyone, so I think it's just possible that what you internalized might have been based on some misunderstandings which never got clarified. My attempts to clarify misunderstandings you've had with/about me has apparently no impact on you reading something, deciding not only what it is (even despite clarification that it wasn't), but what the person writing it was THINKING, and then labeling them "enemy" or "friend" or whatever, and obviously, carrying that forward.

I've never seen anyone here "ask" for "backup". I sometimes see those on the right AND left offering "backup" to those they agree with, but I don't see any one side as more supportive of those they agree with than the other. I don't see either side "bullying" (or attempting to bully) anyone more than any other. I tend to see more nastiness from the right, but that may have to do with the frequency of postings by some individuals, and the wording they employ; I certainly see it from the left as well.

I have agreed and disagreed with virtually everyone on this forum at one time or another, even those whose wording certainly indicates they despise me pretty viscerally. I wish you could stop keeping track quite so much and just take what people write as their response to something specific, not keep a list of "friends" and "enemies".

I wish we all could, but obviously things have gotten more vituperative than usual of late, and it's contributing to "sides" even more than it normally does. It's a shame; I'm hoping it passes, as this place goes through phases. But judging people on something we perceive, holding grudges, "hating" people "ferociously" and making no effort to work out what might be misunderstandings, doesn't help, it only makes things worse.

Just my two cents' worth. I tried to track this thread, but I've been unable to understand some of the back and forth, it just seems to me like everyone's trying to blame someone else and/or defend themselves. And that seems like a waste of time and energy. Maybe some of this stuff could be worked out in PM or e-mail or something, it's just gotten pretty weird.

Eh, whatever. JMHO.

ETA: Oops, I was writing/editing this, and I see the thread has moved on (I started writing it in reply to Byte's last post). I see I'm kind of duplicating Mal4. What she said is some of what I've been trying (poorly) to enunciate. For whatever it's worth.

And Cav, I'm afraid quite a few of us on both "sides" have been " condescended to so unctuously", many times, by someone on the other side. I'm not sure it's a valid point you made there.

Finally, just as an aside; while nobody started a THREAD about Chris abandoning his usual civility, it WAS commented on, and asked about, repeatedly, by several people, if anyone noticed. Just sayin', that's not a particularly valid argument either; the only difference is, nobody started a specific thread asking about it. NUMEROUS people here, in many threads, have questioned what's going on with Jong; his actions were a very dramatic change from the norm, kinda took over the board, and have continued unabated. I don't think starting a thread asking about it is inviting psychoanalysis--it had been discussed so many times in so many threads, it was already an issue.


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Friday, May 31, 2013 8:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

What a load of crap! Just like everyone else here, I respond to those I want to, when I want to. If you're not getting a response...well that's just too damn bad. Grow up.-Jongsstraw
That wasn't my point, which you evidently failed to grasp. Please go back and re-read what I wrote.

Quote:

Who has had NUMEROUS threads put up about them BY NAME, and had their mental state not just questioned, but QUITE blatantly challenged? Who has come in for the absolutely VILEST death wishes, rape wishes and other such things of anyone on this board??-NIKI
Indeed. And pointing out that the question about Jongsstraw was such a horrible violation of net ethics, while being silent about the treatment you've received, is a gasp-worthy example of one-sidedness. HKC: Ahem!

Quite frankly, what I see are a bunch of people posting ME! ME! ME! ME!.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 8:18 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

What a load of crap! Just like everyone else here, I respond to those I want to, when I want to. If you're not getting a response...well that's just too damn bad. Grow up.-Jongsstraw
That wasn't my point, which you evidently failed to grasp. Please go back and re-read what I wrote.



It's still all a load of crap, and the only point you have is the one at the end of your tail.



"Y'know, when I address a post of mine to Jongsstraw, he almost always replies and when he does, he does so with all the grace and civility I could hope for." - HKCavalier 5/29/13


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Friday, May 31, 2013 8:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

It's still all a load of crap, and the only point you have is the one at the end of your tail.
Wow, Jongsstraw. What an intelligent and on-point rebuttal! I really like that response... I forget who postd it, so with apologies to the original poster for lack of attribution:

GRASP!

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Friday, May 31, 2013 8:28 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Please don't start crying and telling sad stories about your hapless life again. I'm fresh out of apologies.



"Y'know, when I address a post of mine to Jongsstraw, he almost always replies and when he does, he does so with all the grace and civility I could hope for." - HKCavalier 5/29/13


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Friday, May 31, 2013 9:17 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I wish we all could, but obviously things have gotten more vituperative than usual of late, and it's contributing to "sides" even more than it normally does. It's a shame; I'm hoping it passes, as this place goes through phases. But judging people on something we perceive, holding grudges, "hating" people "ferociously" and making no effort to work out what might be misunderstandings, doesn't help, it only makes things worse.


IT WASN'T A MISUNDERSTANDING. That HK is claiming that's all it was now is just... INFURIATING.

Isn't it so interesting that when I get insulted about something, I'm just imagining it, or it was my FAULT for misunderstanding. I wonder if that would fly for any single other person on this board.

Mal4Prez, even you too? Fine then. Not even the point of the thread.

Continue discussing state of the board, that is what is important. Consider that maybe hating AURAPTOR and Jongstraw and Wulf also create a worsening situation. AND JONG AND AURAPTOR AND WULF SHOULD CONSIDER THE SAME. I will go back to saying nothing about HK - I know I can do that much.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 9:37 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Rappy and Jongsstraw have shown their moral worth, and quite frankly they're not worth shit. AFA what's going on between you and HKC, I haven't a clue. So when you tally up the board as YOU see it leave my view on this issue blank, because I have none.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 10:10 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
IT WASN'T A MISUNDERSTANDING. That HK is claiming that's all it was now is just... INFURIATING.

That's all I've ever claimed it to be. That's all it's ever been. You never ONCE inquired if I *meant* any of the things you accuse me of saying to you. Not once. You just *knew* what I was saying and what I was intending as you continue to do now. So, inspite of your having condemned me out of hand, I'm supposed to bow before whatever accusation you hurl at me and beg your forgiveness? Who died and made you Queen of the Internet?

Quote:

Isn't it so interesting that when I get insulted about something, I'm just imagining it, or it was my FAULT for misunderstanding. I wonder if that would fly for any single other person on this board.
Not terribly interesting actually. You've felt insulted, geez, hundreds of times, easily. And the reaction has varied accordingly. And plenty of folks have felt insulted and demanded an explanation, got one, and either accepted that there was a misunderstanding, or went on feeling insulted. It's happened to me more than once. It happens to all of us.

Don't trump this up into another conspiracy. Not a single, solitary soul on this board has it in for you, Byte.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 10:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Byte, have you ever noticed how often you are insulted? Have you ever contrasted that with how often numerous other people here say they're insulted? It might be something to think about. I can only vaguely remember a couple of times being insulted in all the time I've been here, and I can't now recall what the specific things were that insulted me. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd hazard a guess that not many people get insulted very often here...we just don't take it that seriously.

"Consider that maybe hating AURAPTOR and Jongstraw and Wulf also create a worsening situation." I've said it before, I'll keep saying it, but you seem incapable of hearing it: I DON'T HATE ANY OF THEM! I even RESPECT Rap when it comes to virtually all subjects outside of politics, and I quite highly respected Jong in a conversation we had some time ago. They are PEOPLE; I don't hate 99.9999% of the people on earth. The "hate" thing is something YOU think, and, from the hatefulness expressed and the "hate" they keep trying to ascribe to all "libruls", something in their minds too.

Now, considering that is true for me, can you even conceive of the possibility that there are others here, too, who don't "HATE" any of them? We disagree; we snark; we mock; we disrespect; I don't take it particularly personally and I KNOW there are others here who don't. So, when it comes to the sum total of people posting on this forum: You're wrong. Does that tell you ANYTHING???

PERCEPTION, Byte; yes, you have a problem with how you perceive things sometimes. It's a fact. I'm willing to lay odds that if you and Cav were to call back up whatever exchange it is that has you so infuriated, to sit down just the two of you and talk about it, you MIGHT well find that he didn't do anything as horrible as what you remember. Or not, I can't say, I don't recall the exchange; what I AM saying is yes, you get insulted comparatively a LOT, and I know from personal experience that you've been insulted by things I've written which were in no way intended to insult you...WE'VE EVEN WORKED SOME OF THEM OUT.

There is, by the way, NO FAULT in misunderstanding; it happens a million times a day to people. If it can be worked out, if the misunderstanding can be cleared up, that's wonderful. If not, bad feelings can go on for far longer than either person would like. That's why I work so hard at trying to sort things out with people. A misunderstanding can cause bad feelings--even, in just such a case as this, "HATRED"--which doesn't have to exist. That's a very sad thing.

Everything doesn't have to make someone right or wrote, bad or good...it's not that simple with humans. It's not your "fault" if you misunderstood something, it can be how it was written, what the person said just before that, or ...Omigawd, what am I doing. I just realized...I've got to get outta here, or I'll be trapped forever...!!!


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Friday, May 31, 2013 11:26 AM

BYTEMITE


Posting the thread here so that discussion can continue about the other MORE IMPORTANT subject. People can decide what they think of the HK vs. Me thing on their own, but I'd prefer not to hear the conclusions, and I'm sure HK feels the same way. http://blu.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=53888

I would however appreciate it if people would stop accusing me of making shit up.

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