REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A new kind of Ebola?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 16:42
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Sunday, August 3, 2014 11:45 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


More Than 100 Health Workers Fighting Ebola Have Contracted It Themselves

Quote:

But a number that is even more alarming was buried in the middle of a Reuters report on Friday. According to Reuters, “more than 100 health workers” that have been fighting Ebola in Africa have contracted the virus themselves. Considering the extraordinary measures that these health workers take to keep from getting the disease, that is quite chilling. We are not just talking about one or two “accidents”. We are talking about more than 100 of them getting sick... The health professionals that are on the front lines of the Ebola fight in Africa are going to extraordinary lengths to keep from getting the virus…

To minimise the risk of infection they have to wear thick rubber boots that come up to their knees, an impermeable body suit, gloves, a face mask, a hood and goggles to ensure no air at all can touch their skin. They are only allowed to work for between four and six weeks in the field because the conditions are so gruelling. At their camp they go through multiple decontaminations which includes spraying chlorine on their shoes.


http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/more-than-100-health-workers
-fighting-ebola-have-contracted-it-themselves?utm_source=feedly&utm_reader=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=more-than-100-health-workers-fighting-ebola-have-contracted-it-themselves


Local nurses are going on strike. They refuse to work with Ebola patients. One doctor who worked in Africa fighting Ebola talked about being in a ward with 70 Ebola patients, and there were just two people there: Himself and another foreign doctor.

There have been outbreaks of Ebola-related viruses, most specifically in Reston, VA. This particular Ebola variant showed up in infected macaque monkeys. However, in the research facility it showed a distressing new capability of becoming airborne. Monkeys in the facility became sick, even if the only thing they shared was the ventilation system.

This was all chronicled in the book The Hot Zone, which I read at the time. It was scary stuff.

Quote:

Here’s what happened:

In the fall of 1989, Hazelton Laboratories had a lab at 1946 Isaac Newton Square West, where KinderCare is now located. The lab did animal experiments. There were already about 500 macaque monkeys housed at the facility when 100 more were flown from the Philippines, according to an article in the Internet Journal of Preventative Medicine.

A month later, 29 of the 100 quarantined monkeys had died. During a necropsy, a veterinarian found one monkey’s spleen had tripled in size and hardened and there was blood in the intestines. After conducting several other necropsies he diagnosed the deaths as being caused by simian hemorrhagic fever virus (SHFV), the Journal article said.

The Hazelton facility veterinarian then sent samples of the monkey tissues to the United States Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) for a conclusive diagnosis. Meanwhile, Hazelton lab workers began euthanizing the remaining animals, but sporadic deaths began occurring in several other rooms. Soon, 30 monkeys from a different shipment were dead.

Back at USAMRIID another researcher discovered by electron microscopy that Ebola Zaire was responsible for the monkey deaths. On Nov. 28, 1989 nearly six weeks after monkeys began dying in Reston, USAMRIID verified the Ebola finding. The following day, representatives from USAMRIID, the CDC, and the Virginia Department of Health met and developed an action plan. The CDC would handle people; USAMRIID would handle the monkeys and the monkey facility. Because of the threat that Ebola might spread to staff, Reston, and the greater Washington, DC community, the Army determined that all remaining monkeys would be immediately euthanized. The first task was to determine how best to administer a solution to a building potentially full of Ebola.

Scientists came to Reston in hazmat suits in order to carefully euthanize monkeys and stop the spread of the disease. During the process one of the monkeys escaped.

“Several of us spent the better part of a day trying to catch it,” Dr. Jerry Jaxx said in a veterinary medical journal interview. “When we talk about the Reston incident, we compare the frustration of that day with the Hollywood version in the movie ‘Outbreak,’ in which an infected monkey was coaxed from a tree and captured within minutes. It is a great example of reality vs. Hollywood.’ ”

The runaway was later caught in the building. Then the decontamination efforts began — an 11-day operation of scrubbing and bleaching. That was followed by electric frying pans cooking formaldehyde crystals for three days to rid the air of all toxins.

In the end, researchers concluded that the new species of Ebola was highly contagious in monkeys but not in humans. They also learned that the disease was not only found in Africa, since the monkeys had come from the Philippines. The investigators determined aerosol transmission was particularly quick in a lab setting, because the virus appeared to pass between rooms to infect susceptible monkeys.


http://www.restonnow.com/2014/07/31/restons-link-to-ebola-nearly-25-ye
ars-later
/

Ebola virus constantly evolves. There are several known strains. The concern, of course, is that the virus might evolve into an airborne pathogen. If it did, that would be a nightmare scenario.


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Sunday, August 3, 2014 12:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


That is new and deeply troubling information. I had read about the one doctor and the two US aid workers. It didn't concern me because there are always a few accidental exposures. (I've read probably a half-dozen full sized books on Ebola - including The Hot Zone - and many papers. That some medical personnel get infected seems to be historically an unavoidable occurrence.)

That SO MANY have become infected is shocking. Something basically different must be happening.

I can imagine another explanation besides it having become airborne. Typically Ebola isn't thought of as being infectious until symptoms develop. It might have developed an infectious prodrome. Or there may be an earlier/ different stage where infection control procedures aren't being followed, for example handling of waste and contaminated articles.

We'll have to wait and see.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, August 3, 2014 1:29 PM

THGRRI



REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS


Peace Corps Pulls Out


http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=58420


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Monday, August 4, 2014 9:06 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/more-than-100-health-workers
-fighting-ebola-have-contracted-it-themselves?utm_source=feedly&utm_reader=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=more-than-100-health-workers-fighting-ebola-have-contracted-it-themselves





Hrmmm. You're quoting "End of the American Dream" web site? Nope, no agenda there....



I know the hate Sig has for this country is always present. I was looking back at other threads.

Roller coaster economics: 2007 redux?

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=58118.

She can't wait for this country to fail and never missises an opportunity to slander us.


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Monday, August 4, 2014 10:48 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hrmmm. You're quoting "End of the American Dream" web site? Nope, no agenda there....
She can't wait for this country to fail and never missises an opportunity to slander us.



Because a news story - about Ebola - in Africa- is ALL ABOUT the US. Or do you really not know that Africa is on a different continent than the US? Sheesh. You two - could you be any more full of crap?



Oh, yeah - better put Reuters on your list of news sources you refuse to accept.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/01/us-health-ebola-healthworker
s-idUSKBN0G14FR20140801


Exposure of health workers weakens Africa's Ebola fight
reuters.com
By Umaru Fofana, Daniel Flynn and Kate Kelland
More than 100 health workers have been infected by the viral disease




Yanno, it occurred to me she could be posting stories carried by major news agencies but linking minor sources. Just to make you do your Pavlovian thang and point and gibber about the SOURCE by god! And make you look even more stupid than you already do. If that's at all possible.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, August 4, 2014 11:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


THUGR is just mad because I said the only thing he brought to this forum was the ability to suck his own dick. Which is true.

He draws nice pictures, tho.

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Monday, August 4, 2014 12:26 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


G, the fact that 100 healthcare workers got Ebola was listed in other sites, but the one I linked had links to the other sources in one convenient place. YES, it is a scare-mongering site, but it did have quotes and links. If you can't separate out the information from the source... if you rely on the source to do your thinking for you... then it's you that has a problem, not me.

I would have liked more information on those 100 workers - local, foreign workers, and internal experts - all of whom have gotten sick.

Did the local healthcare workers have access to even SOME protective equipment? Did the foreign healthcare workers have access? If yes, did they ditch the hazmat suits - which make working so arduous that you have to spend the next 7 hours re-hydrating- in favor of being able to work longer hours? Many unanswered questions.

The outbreak so far as been represented with a rearview mirror outlook. Officials were warning as recently as last week that the epidemic "could" cross international boundaries, when the reality is that it already has.

Finally, they woke up. Experts at the WHO are deciding whether to declare this a serious health emergency, which would allow the suspension of international travel, for example. Sierra Leone has brought the military into play, restricting border travel and doing house-to-house searches. (Quite frankly, I think this will simply scatter people farther, along more surreptitious routes). Developed-world resources are being brought to bear, I feel that as long as they thought this represented yet another third-world disease in yet another third-world nation, NOTHING would be done. But once it looked to become a threat to the developed nations, the gears started moving.

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Monday, August 4, 2014 12:43 PM

THGRRI


The fact that you always go to these sites and quote them is the point here. It is always the point with you. You visit these sites because of their bias against America which fuels your hate. It is best for others aside from 1kiki to forgo your input and just research stories that interest them. What you provide is always tainted.

As for sucking dicks, it would be you that actually has experienced that Sig. My boat floats towards sane women.


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Monday, August 4, 2014 4:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It seems like yo judge the news by the source, rather than by the facts.

BTW, I don't 'judge' FOX news. I simply don't have time to sift through it. If one has a long history with a source - validating stories, getting the complete picture through many sources - it's possible to say whether, by your experience, a source is going to provide you with accurate and complete information. You haven't done that. You look at the name and make a bunch of assumptions. I challenge you to spend a week looking at the front page of RT. Note which stories are true and which are false by your ability to find the same information in other places.

Not that you will, of course. B/c you 'know' better.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, August 4, 2014 6:26 PM

THGRRI


G...your just beating your head up against a wall with this one. I can guaranty no matter what she will continue to say so you don't believe in the facts over and over again. She's too (fill in the blank)to bother with.


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Tuesday, August 5, 2014 5:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Per the CDC, almost 2 weeks after the doctors got sick, we STILL don't know how they were infected.

But all is well.

Remain calm.

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Wednesday, August 6, 2014 2:02 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


She's too (fill in the blank)to bother with.

Fill in the blank...

Intelligent?
Investigative?
Fact-driven?
Resistant to propaganda?

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Wednesday, August 6, 2014 9:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Why would someone who is any of those things get their "news" from a state run outlet? That's not very any of those.
That second sentence is so garbled, I have no idea what you're trying to say. But, as far as the first is concerned... what makes you think there are any news outlets that are NOT state controlled? As far as I'm concerned, since they're ALL state controlled, even you (yes, you) get your "news" from state-controlled outlets. You simply have decided to limit your news to a particular set of states.

Quote:

She's also been caught too many times making negative assumptions and simply wrong ones.
Um, I think the real point is that you've been caught too many times making positive assumptions, but just wrong ones. You have yet to show that either KIKI or I are wrong. What I get back from you is a lot of assumption-based emotion, but no analysis. Therefore, your assumptions remain undetected (by you).

Ebola isn't going to go out of control, it IS out of control. It might not spread across international boundaries, it ALREADY HAS. It might not establish itself in major cities, it's already there. As the epidemic gets bigger and bigger, the cost and effort to being it under control gets greater and greater, and right now, I don't see the international commitment necessary to stomp it out. And international commitment is necessary, because the nations in question are too poor (and in some cases, too corrupt) to do this on their own.

So, a dilemma. Health care workers have a chance to stop this in Nigeria, but the three nations already deeply involved.... ?


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Wednesday, August 6, 2014 10:03 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Per the CDC, almost 2 weeks after the doctors got sick, we STILL don't know how they were infected.

But all is well.

Remain calm.



I saw an article where someone suggested the material used to make a type of suit used in these situations is too porous and allows contaminant's in. It is to flimsy. There may also be a flaw in how they handle the suits when removing them.


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Wednesday, August 6, 2014 11:38 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

….Sig
what makes you think there are any news outlets that are NOT state controlled? As far as I'm concerned, since they're ALL state controlled, even you (yes, you) get your "news" from state-controlled outlets. You simply have decided to limit your news to a particular set of states.



This response from you to G shows your limited understanding of how the world works. You are assigning the same degree of governmental intrusion into the news to all entities that report the news globally. They all do this, they all do that, with little regard for the different degrees to which each state may practice something; like propaganda. In this country the state may imply something to spin a topic towards a frame of though they wish you to peruse, as will the news agency’s themselves more often than not. Most do tend to lean left or right but mostly it is what they exclude in their reporting that shows their biases. Still, other news outlets will make their own determination in a follow up (be it on air or in printed form). In this country our government may make a video they wish the news agency’s to run concerning any list of topics. Many times because it is news the news outlet will run it unedited. That is a form of propaganda but again there is always a dissenting voice that can be heard that follows by that very news provider or their competition. There is a very big difference between that and what has happened to the news in Russia with the presence of Putin. Or Iran and many of the other news sources you research for you arguments, which do little more than cast aspersions on the west. The world has many more dimensions to it than you are apparently able to grasp.

Quote:

….Sig
Um, I think the real point is that you've been caught too many times making positive assumptions, but just wrong ones. You have yet to show that either KIKI or I are wrong. What I get back from you is a lot of assumption-based emotion, but no analysis. Therefore, your assumptions remain undetected (by you).



I find this amusing. You and 1kiki have yet to be right unless we are talking global warming. When it comes to the Ukraine, wrong. When it comes to the Middle East, wrong. When it comes to America, wrong. Your belief system is tainted by the negative brush you use to paint everything but your beloved Socialism.

Sorry, but when you suggest G is coming from a place of assumption based on emotion, it is yourself and 1kiki you are describing not G. I can’t count the amount of times I have read G saying to 1kiki, that is not what I said read it again. It is a constant reminder to me of all the times she has chosen to ignore what I was saying and respond with something that established for me, chatting anything with her was pointless.

Lastly I would say I am torn between not responding to those hear who have an agenda, and letting the voices of reason stand unassisted in their attempts to keep these threads alive.. Alas, life has taught me the extremes on both sides are more likely to engage as I have witnessed here. My feeling is I should wean myself off of these threads entirely. I am sure there are half a dozen here that would love that which is of little concern to me. It’s just, this is fast becoming a place I do not wish to hang out.



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Wednesday, August 6, 2014 11:59 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Per the CDC, almost 2 weeks after the doctors got sick, we STILL don't know how they were infected.

But all is well.

Remain calm.



I saw an article where someone suggested the material used to make a type of suit used in these situations is too porous and allows contaminant's in. It is to flimsy. There may also be a flaw in how they handle the suits when removing them.




Great.

I guess the spokesman didn't think that worthy of discussion .

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Wednesday, August 6, 2014 12:37 PM

THGRRI


All your going to hear from them is smooth sailing for a bit longer.

Everything positive....


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Thursday, August 7, 2014 6:10 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by G:


Why would someone who is any of those things get their "news" from a state run outlet? That's not very any of those.



Actually the best news source in this country is government funded.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/vic/

Just thought I'd point that out.

Here are a few sources on the Ebola outbreak

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/06/health/africa-ebola-outbreak/index.h
tml


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/06/ebola-outbreak-nurse-nige
ria-dies





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Thursday, August 7, 2014 10:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
what makes you think there are any news outlets that are NOT state controlled? As far as I'm concerned, since they're ALL state controlled, even you (yes, you) get your "news" from state-controlled outlets. You simply have decided to limit your news to a particular set of states.-Sig

This response from you to G shows your limited understanding of how the world works... In this country the state may imply something to spin a topic towards a frame of though they wish you to peruse, as will the news agency’s themselves more often than not. ... In this country our government may make a video they wish the news agency’s to run concerning any list of topics. Many times because it is news the news outlet will run it unedited. That is a form of propaganda but again there is always a dissenting voice that can be heard that follows by that very news provider or their competition.

Huh.

One of the points I made in the Gaza thread was the internet censorship I stumbled across the other day, while looking for the number of rockets and mortars that Israel fires into Gaza. That censorship is absolute, and if you can find that data anywhere, hats off to you. (And be prepared for a knock on your door.)

The USA has done a LOT more than "spin" the news, the NSA/ FBI/ DOJ have "investigated" journalists and news outlets, taking away hard drives and boxes of info. Not small outlets, either, but FOX news and AP.

Quote:

Recent coverage of overbroad subpoenas for telephone records of Associated Press journalists and an inappropriate search warrant for a Fox News reporter are only the latest examples of abuse. In 2010 the Inspector General reported the FBI used an illegal “exigent letter” to obtain the telephone records of 7 New York Times and Washington Post reporters. And the FBI thwarts congressional oversight with excessive secrecy and delayed or misleading responses to questions from Congress


https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/unleashed-and-unaccoun
table-fbi-report.pdf


Reporters themselves have said that this inhibits their ability to investigate and report the news.

Quote:

There is a very big difference between that and what has happened to the news in Russia with the presence of Putin. Or Iran and many of the other news sources you research for you arguments, which do little more than cast aspersions on the west.
Funny thing is, our press does the same thing! It's been nothing but a lap dog every time some President wants to go to war. The most ridiculous "aspersions" (allegations, accusations) pass muster and are duly printed in our press. When I look at our press and the English-language outlets of foreign press, they look remarkably similar.

Quote:


Um, I think the real point is that you've been caught too many times making positive assumptions, but just wrong ones. You have yet to show that either KIKI or I are wrong. What I get back from you is a lot of assumption-based emotion, but no analysis. Therefore, your assumptions remain undetected (by you).-signy

I find this amusing. You and 1kiki have yet to be right unless we are talking global warming. When it comes to the Ukraine, wrong.


Please see my predictions about Ukraine, and tell me how "wrong" I've been.

Quote:

When it comes to the Middle East, wrong.

Because Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria are NOT great smoking clusterfucks, thanks to our "interventions"?

Quote:

When it comes to America, wrong.
Because we have NOT become an oligarchy, where the will of the people is thwarted whenever it crosses the interests of the wealthy? Because there are people (like you) who conflate corporate interests with American interests?

Quote:

Your belief system is tainted by the negative brush you use to paint everything but your beloved Socialism.
If I believe in anything, it's looking at facts - even painful ones. YOUR belief has caused you to put on rose-colored blinders (to mix metaphors).

Quote:

Sorry, but when you suggest G is coming from a place of assumption based on emotion, it is yourself and 1kiki you are describing not G. I can’t count the amount of times I have read G saying to 1kiki, that is not what I said read it again. It is a constant reminder to me of all the times she has chosen to ignore what I was saying and respond with something that established for me, chatting anything with her was pointless.
G says says one thing, and then says another. G pretends to be unbiased, but isn't.

Quote:

Lastly I would say I am torn between not responding to those hear who have an agenda, and letting the voices of reason stand unassisted in their attempts to keep these threads alive.. Alas, life has taught me the extremes on both sides are more likely to engage as I have witnessed here. My feeling is I should wean myself off of these threads entirely. I am sure there are half a dozen here that would love that which is of little concern to me. It’s just, this is fast becoming a place I do not wish to hang out.
Um, I don't know if you've noticed, but YOU have "an agenda". and it is not "the voice of reason" but to be a cheerleader for your beliefs. The question is... would you actually change your mind when presented with facts which consistently thwart your beliefs?

I doubt it.

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Thursday, August 7, 2014 10:22 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The point you are trying to make is the one I just made - it's not about America, so why is a End of America site using it? That site is so close to info wars - I've pointed that out before, so still true. It's obvious she didn't just happen by it.
You're right. I found some facts, and I searched them together, and THAT particular article had all of them nicely tied together, in one. With quotes and sources, which would allow the INVESTIGATIVE person to check the sources and find more info. I could have posted and linked a half-dozen articles from more "acceptable" sources with the same info, but that site was more convenient.

I don't get your point. Either the information is true, or it isn't. It doesn't matter what's surrounding it. And BTW, that was the first time I've even been to that website, and most likely will be the last. So whatever you're trying to imply... well, I don't "get it". I just chalk it up to "yet another inexplicable reaction from G".

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Thursday, August 7, 2014 10:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


MEANHILE

Quote:

With over 932 dead, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has issued its highest level alert for an all-hands on deck response to the crisis in West Africa (that is spreading across the world). While President Obama proclaimed we are prepared and itis "not easily transmitted," it appears that is not entirely true. Meanwhile, CDC Director Frieden's "deep concerns" have been confirmed as Nigeria’s health minister has declared a health emergency as the deadly Ebola virus gained a foothold in Africa’s most populous nation, according to news reports. Nigerian authorities moved quickly late Wednesday, gathering isolation tents as five more cases of the Ebola Virus were confirmed in Lagos (the world's 4th most populous city with 21 million people). Most international flights from West Africa are also now screening passengers.

As Yahoo reports, The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Wednesday issued its highest alert for an all-hands on deck response to the Ebola crisis in West Africa.

"Ops Center moved to Level 1 response to given the extension to Nigeria & potential to affect many lives," CDC chief Tom Frieden said on Twitter.

Level 1 is the highest on a 1-6 scale and signals that increased staff and resources will be devoted to the outbreak.

"Basically this activation allows us to pull resources from throughout the agency to respond to this," said CDC spokesman Tom Skinner. He said it was the first time since 2009 that the Level 1 alert had been issued. Back then it was in response to the outbreak of H1N1 flu.

As The Washington Post reports, Nigeria’s health minister has declared a health emergency as the deadly Ebola virus gained a foothold in Africa’s most populous nation, according to news reports.

“This is a national emergency. Everyone in the world today is at risk. The experience of Nigeria opens the eyes of the world,” Minister of Health Onyebuchi Chukwu told the country’s House of Representatives. Nigerian authorities moved quickly late Wednesday, gathering isolation tents as five more cases of the Ebola Virus were confirmed in Lagos, a city bursting with 21 million people.


All five people are believed to be health workers who had direct contact with one man traveling from Ebola-ridden Liberia to Nigeria — making this country the fourth now infiltrated by the deadly disease.

“Yesterday the first known Nigerian to die of Ebola was recorded,” Chukwu told reporters in Abuja on Wednesday. “This was one of the nurses that attended to the Liberian. The other five [newly confirmed] cases are being treated at an isolation ward.”

Idris said this is the time “for everyone to be vigilant, especially with regard to relating to people who are ill.”

As Bloomberg reports,

Most international airlines flying to West Africa in the grip of the deadly Ebola outbreak are counting on stepped-up passenger screening as they continue serving the region. Air France fliers in some cities must complete health questionnaires and be checked for symptoms, including an elevated temperature, before boarding cards are issued. Delta Air Lines Inc. said travelers are being checked at the airport in Monrovia, Liberia, one of the countries hit by Ebola. Only two airlines have suspended flights to West Africa so far, with British Airways opting yesterday to join Gulf carrier Emirates in pulling back.

U.S. carriers “that fly to the affected countries remain in steady contact with government agencies and health officials, and have procedures in place to monitor and quickly respond to potential health concerns,” said Victoria Day, a spokeswoman for the Washington-based Airlines for America trade group.


Barack Obama says that Ebola is "not something that is easily transmitted" and that everything is under control...

There is more panic-stricken commentary in the article, which may become true but isn't justified at the moment.

Also, Nigeria is going to portray this as a threat to "the world" in order to pull in more dollars. But on balance, the number of infections and deaths is now following an exponential curve up. With each passing day, the situation becomes exponentially more difficult and more expensive to control. It is probably at the point where it is impossible to control in Africa, given infrastructural and cultural limitations. There will be a tendency to isolate the affected nations and let it burn out.

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Thursday, August 7, 2014 10:35 AM

THGRRI


I clicked on reply Sig, but reply to your newest(same old) post, I will not. It would be like a dog chasing it's tail. I made my point and do not feel the need to repeat myself.



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Thursday, August 7, 2014 10:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I made my point and do not feel the need to repeat myself.
Because you can't actually refute anything I posted, with events that you can point to or demonstrate. I understand.

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Thursday, August 7, 2014 10:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

I am biased against liars and posers - whoever and wherever they are, US, Russia, RWED.
Me too!

There is a distinction that the english language makes difficult, and that is the distinction between telling "the truth" (corresponding to reality) and telling "the truth" (not lying). In one meaning, truth means corresponding to reality. In another sense, truth means sincerity, speaking from deep feelings.

We're not talking about the same kind of truth. But, in NEITHER sense am I telling a "lie".

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Thursday, August 7, 2014 10:48 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Now, can we get back to the discussion about Ebola?

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Thursday, August 7, 2014 5:44 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by G:


Actually Australia isn't Russia. And I'd still be distrustful. Would you trust that they would be forward and complete with any anti-government news? And because saying it 5 times is never enough around here: I am distrustful of all "news" outlets. They all have agendas.



Thanks for reminding me of that.

They are often accused by governments of being anti government, so that's kind of funny.

Yes, all news is inherintly biased, but being government funded doesn't necessarily make it more pro or anti government than a privately owned news source.

I give you Fox as an example of a blatantly biased news source.

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Thursday, August 7, 2014 6:37 PM

THGRRI


We also have a government funded station called(PBS) Public Broadcasting System. Or NPR, National Public Radio. I will let the conservatives explain because they enjoy them so much.

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Thursday, August 7, 2014 6:43 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by G:


Actually Australia isn't Russia. And I'd still be distrustful. Would you trust that they would be forward and complete with any anti-government news? And because saying it 5 times is never enough around here: I am distrustful of all "news" outlets. They all have agendas.



Thanks for reminding me of that.

They are often accused by governments of being anti government, so that's kind of funny.

Yes, all news is inherintly biased, but being government funded doesn't necessarily make it more pro or anti government than a privately owned news source.

I give you Fox as an example of a blatantly biased news source.



There's definite distinction between government run and gov funded, and certainly even more between either of those in Russia versus the same in AU.

Another update on freedom of speech in Russia:

https://twitter.com/NataliaAntonova
"According to @Izvestia - all access to public WiFi will now be regulated. Russians will have to input passport data in every cafe. OK, wow."

They took away their brie and now their wifi.... man, darker and darker.



Sounds wonderful....


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Thursday, August 7, 2014 7:12 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by G:



There's definite distinction between government run and gov funded, and certainly even more between either of those in Russia versus the same in AU.




Yeah there is, but that's not what you said earlier when you asked whether the ABC could be trusted to run anti government news. So perhaps you're getting clearer now.

Having seen snippets of American news, I can say that most of it appears to be SHOCKINGLY and ALARMINGLY biased in a way that is less common here. There seems to be a blurring between opinion and news, which often feels more distinct over here.

So it's no bad thing to look to different sources for information.

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Friday, August 8, 2014 4:41 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You must be pro Russian. Or anti American. Or both. Commie jihadist scum.

You will never ever be allowed to claim any facts ever again that won't be dismissed out of hand because - well - who they think you are is more important than what the facts are.

Their agenda is all. Facts are nothing. Get used to it.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, August 8, 2014 8:51 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I had to chuckle at Obama and his unbelievable hubris...

Quote:



Parsing Obama's Answer on the Unfairness of Giving Ebola Serum to Americans Before Africans

"And the countries that have been affected are the first to admit that what's happened here is that their public health systems have been overwhelmed."

But he's not gonna stand up and say, "We're not gonna share it." He's gonna stand up and say they know they don't want it. They know enough to know that they don't know what to do with it. They know enough to know that their health care systems are so shoddy that they wouldn't be able to use it anyway. So he's hiding behind them. These three African countries, he's gonna deny it to 'em. But he wants everybody to believe that they are telling him that they don't want it. That's what that means. When you hear him say anything like this ever, "And they'll be the first to admit, these countries that have been affected by this, they'll be the first to admit that what's happened here is that they're a bunch of hellholes and they don't know what they're doing and they're not worth saving and they can't get this."

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2014/08/07/parsing_obama_s_answer_on
_the_unfairness_of_giving_ebola_serum_to_americans_before_africans





Obama never is at fault, for ANYTHING. Every time, it's someone else who isn't getting the job done, who is obstructing, or who can't even handle the very drugs that may help stop this epidemic. Gee, Obama would love for nothing more than to hand over boxes and boxes of the drugs , fly them there himself, if he only could. But they don't want it. They know better, so we'll just abide by their wishes. He flipped it onto them, where if this were Bush, the media would be going bonkers at the SELFISHNESS of white Americans, saving their own, but not caring enough to help black Africans.


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Friday, August 8, 2014 10:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:


You must be pro Russian. Or anti American. Or both. Commie jihadist scum.

You will never ever be allowed to claim any facts ever again that won't be dismissed out of hand because - well - who they think you are is more important than what the facts are.

Their agenda is all. Facts are nothing. Get used to it.= KIKI


Are these quotes from THUGR from other threads? I confess, I find myself baffled. They seem to express THUGR's (or maybe G's) most ideological/ authoritarian moments, and they're very specific, but they're not from this thread.

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Friday, August 8, 2014 10:44 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

….Magon
Having seen snippets of American news, I can say that most of it appears to be SHOCKINGLY and ALARMINGLY biased in a way that is less common here. There seems to be a blurring between opinion and news, which often feels more distinct over here.
So it's no bad thing to look to different sources for information.



I agree with using many sources to form a conclusion, but I found a Dutch reporters take on American global involvements interesting.

Throughout the earlier goings on with the downing of the airliner a reporter from the Netherlands appeared on some news shows here. I saw him several times. He explained how this tragedy was different because his country was used to sitting back in righteous indignation, while reporting about the United States and our involvements globally. The little guy poking the big guy with a stick if you will. He spoke about the Dutch having a seat at the big boy table for the first time because of the fact that half or so of the 300 people killed were from there. He was very honest about the fact that they had very little capacity to do anything and was much more supportive of America’s role globally. His smugness disappeared.

Europe loves to judge America while depending on us for their continued security. Many times in the past few months, even years I have heard reporters from Europe stating the world has felt leaderless because Obama was not taking a leadership role. He may be leading everywhere but if they disagree with his level of involvement they criticize endlessly and stand around scratching their heads as to what to do.



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Friday, August 8, 2014 10:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Denmark having a seat at the big boy table for the first time because of the fact that half or so of the 300 people killed were from there.
I think you meant the Netherlands, commonly but incorrectly known here as "Holland".

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Friday, August 8, 2014 10:52 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:


You must be pro Russian. Or anti American. Or both. Commie jihadist scum.

You will never ever be allowed to claim any facts ever again that won't be dismissed out of hand because - well - who they think you are is more important than what the facts are.

Their agenda is all. Facts are nothing. Get used to it.= KIKI


Are these quotes from THUGR from other threads? I confess, I find myself baffled. They seem to express THURGR's (or maybe G's) most ideological/ authoritarian moments, and they're very specific, but they're not from this thread.



You are confused because that is what 1kiki does. She mixes up posts from others into her own and spews garbage off topic. In this case I do recognize this as a shot at me with the first part of a sentence mimicking a comment by me but the second half must be her. She always and I mean always suggests the other person ignores the facts even when she was just proven wrong. It's classic 1kiki.


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Friday, August 8, 2014 10:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Back to the topic of the thread....


WHO declares Ebola epidemic an international health emergency

Quote:

(Reuters) - West Africa's Ebola epidemic is an "extraordinary event" and now constitutes an international health risk, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Friday.

The Geneva-based U.N. health agency said the possible consequences of a further international spread of the outbreak, which has killed almost 1,000 people in four West African countries, were "particularly serious" in view of the virulence of the virus.

"A coordinated international response is deemed essential to stop and reverse the international spread of Ebola," the WHO said in a statement after a two-day meeting of its emergency committee on Ebola.

The declaration of an international emergency will have the effect of raising the level of vigilance on the virus.

"The outbreak is moving faster than we can control it," the WHO's director-general Margaret Chan told reporters on a telephone briefing from the WHO's Geneva headquarters.

"The declaration ... will galvanize the attention of leaders of all countries at the top level. It cannot be done by the ministries of health alone."

The agency said that, while all states with Ebola transmission - so far Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria and Sierra Leone - should declare a national emergency, there should be no general ban on international travel or trade.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/us-health-ebola-emergency-id
USKBN0G80M620140808


Ie quarantine the nations involved and let it burn itself out?

Quote:

After an experimental drug was administered to two U.S. charity workers who were infected in Liberia, Ebola specialists urged the WHO to offer such drugs to Africans. The U.N. agency has asked medical ethics experts to explore this option next week. [ID:nL6N0QB5UH]
The real issue is intellectual property. The company investigating the effectiveness of this drug ("forsythia" in the movie "Contagion") clearly can't produce enough for the need, but other companies can... if they're given the formula on how to make it. If there were some kind of deal reached- give us the formula to use for six months, and we'll be doing on-the-ground tests for your use later - then the relationship could be mutually beneficial.


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Friday, August 8, 2014 11:00 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Denmark having a seat at the big boy table for the first time because of the fact that half or so of the 300 people killed were from there.
I think you meant the Netherlands, commonly but incorrectly known here as "Holland".



The Dutch, Netherlands yes, I stand corrected.


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Friday, August 8, 2014 7:32 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by G:


Your first post, you said "actually" as if to correct my assertion that Gov influenced news was not to be trusted. You cited Aussie ABC. To me, that was not an equivalent, so I felt I needed to make distinctions even further - I wouldn't think I'd have to point out the differences between Russia & Aus, or between funded and controlled, but clarity is good.
Fox is horrible, it is known. They invented the "bias posing as news" format as far as I can tell. It's worse on our radio. If you have never listened to Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh then you have not heard just how bad it can be. Both of these people have a mind blowing number of listeners and their message is basically the same every day: "Obama Sucks!" I can only listen for a few minutes before it's just too much to take. If you REALLY want to hear how bad it can be, I suggest you have a quick listen.



A lot of countries have government run stations - they're not all bad. Sometimes that assertion gets made that they are nothing but big propaganda machines spewing lies. I was trying to assert that that is not always the case, nor is the opposite true that privately run agengies are automatically paragons of newsworthy virtue. I dont have anything to say about Russian news sites, not being places that I have visited, so they may have be more of less on a par with some of the US/ENglish sites which are pretty poor. In which case, referring to them as alternate source of information is no worse than referring to the Daily Mail, or Fox or any other news source frequently quoted on these boards.

I have had the misfortunue to listen/watch a few brief moments of Limbaugh and he sounds pretty insane. We have a few shock jocks here who get a bit of air time, but they tend to be agent provacateurs in the media world. I understand that is there role, to provoke an extreme response. That shoulld be different to the news. What's kind of shocked me about news in the US is how much opinion there is in there, newsreaders making partisan comments. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the concept of'news' over there.

Apart from the government run ABC and SBS news, the commercial channel news is for the lowest common denominator here. 20 minutes of sport, 20 of car crashes and murders and a snippet on world news if it is sensational enough. It's a waste of eye fluid.

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Saturday, August 9, 2014 11:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You obviously aren't comprehending (or reading my posts) - thanks you. The fact that those are Kiki's words makes it all the more funny. Wait for it... wait for Kiki to come in and spin her post to deflect her intentions. What really seems to have galled her is my belief that you shouldn't trust government controlled media. That's how absurd her line of thinking is.
G, your post is incomprehensible.

Also, I DO read and understand your posts. What I find, however, is that while you SAY you don't trust any news sources, you make it a feature of your posts ... totally trusting some sources and totally rejecting others. And it just wigs you out when others (such as myself) don't trust who you trust and reject who you reject. You get quite frothy about it. You're really source-oriented, not reality-oriented. So I don't know if you noticed how hypocritical you are? But you say one thing and do another almost all of the time, which makes your posts conflicted.

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Saturday, August 9, 2014 11:48 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The WHO website is nearly inscrutable. However, I found this, which is interesting

http://www.who.int/csr/don/archive/disease/ebola/en/

Each report, they indicate the new cases that have been reported in the interim. You have to take into account that the reporting periods are uneven - anywhere from 2 to 5 days - but then you can look at the approximate number of new cases per day.

It would a "trend" of only one point so far, but the last reporting period showed a lower "new case per day" than the two previous reporting periods.

It is thought that Ebola is under-reported by a factor of 5 to 10. (Heard some of that in an interview, I'll try to re-find that link.)


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Saturday, August 9, 2014 6:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


But then you get all wigged out by a source that I linked because of OTHER articles in it, because of the adverts next to it, because of the name of the site itself, when everything in that article could actually be traced back to other (what YOU would consider to be) "more credible" sources.

The reality is that you reject certain pieces of information, not because it doesn't make sense or provide any insight or can't be verified but JUST because of where it came from. And you accept information the same way.

When I posted the pictures of the victims in the Odessa Trades Union building, pictures which were too detailed to fake and which had a wealth of probative information, backed up by videos taken from multiple sources outside of the building, I got a ration of shit for posting PICTURES! Pictures with lines and circles drawn on them!

REALLY???

Also, you will notice that I almost never link to RT, so why the fuck do you keep bringing it up? What is wrong with you? You keep flogging a horse that's not dead, it doesn't even exist. You have this idee fixe - I can't tell if you really believe it yourself, or if you're trying out your skills of innuendo and strawmanning.

Finally, I've actually been pretty successful at predicting what's going to happen next.... certainly, much more than you, with all of your so-called caution about sources.

Afghanistan? Check
The collapse of Iraq? Check
The 2008 financial collapse? Check!


I think you wouldn't accept that gravity existed if a street-corner bum told you about it. You'd sniff his clothes and shut your ears, despite the fact that items reliably fall downwards.

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Saturday, August 9, 2014 7:34 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER




Quote:

In crisis situations, rumour mills – long a prominent feature of daily life in Nigeria – take on a frenetic urgency. Add the push and reach of social media and the impact grows exponentially. The least any responsible government can do is make available accurate and credible information.

Yet when I attended a briefing by senior officials of the Lagos state government on the rising threat of the deadly Ebola virus in Africa’s most populated city yesterday, I found journalists struggling to confirm exactly how many lives had been affected by the outbreak so far.

The Lagos commissioner put the total number of confirmed cases (including fatalities) at eight, but the number released earlier in the day by the federal authorities in Abuja, Nigeria’s capital, seven hundred kilometres away, was seven.

Given that the number victims of the worst Ebola outbreak in history had risen to at least 932 across four countries, according to the World Health Organisation, some might say a difference of one is a modest discrepancy.

But I imagine that not a few minds in the press briefing audience silently toyed with this thought: if there are two different figures, it must mean that at least one is wrong. And if one is wrong, then both could easily be wrong. If both are wrong, what else might be wrong?

A similar, albeit much worse scenario comes to mind. In the nine weeks it took Nigeria’s federal government to officially determine and announce the exact number of schoolgirls kidnapped by terrorists in northern Nigeria in April, several conflicting figures emerged. The profusion of different numbers permitted one false view to gain currency – the suggestion that perhaps it was all fiction, there were no girls missing, and the alleged abduction was a ruse meant to embarrass Nigeria’s president in front of the world.

Ten years ago, a number of Muslim-dominated states in northern Nigeria suspended polio vaccination programmes, alleging that the vaccines were a western strategy to render Muslim girls infertile. It took great effort by the federal government and the international community to mount an information campaign that would convince state governments and residents of those states that the rumours were false. By then of course the damage had been done – a sharp rise in polio infection rates followed.

Today, religion still holds great power in shaping crisis narratives. In response to the news that a Liberian man had brought the Ebola virus to Nigeria, a Pentecostal preacher took to Facebook to post a message claiming that “at the Name of Jesus, Ebola will bow out!”

The post drew loud condemnation, causing the preacher to add a clarification, insisting that he was “not in anyway an attempting to deny the existence of the virus in Nigeria, or to encourage anyone to seek interaction with the virus.”

But there was also strong support as well, for his views. One commenter posted: “God is not man, believe Him, He will defend His words.” Since then I’ve sighted at least one similar message circulating on mobile phones, saying that “Jesus brings life, Ebola brings death. Choose life!!!

In Liberia, where more than 300 people have been infected in the Ebola outbreak, President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf this week called for a three-day stint of fasting and prayer to ask for divine intervention against the disease.

The implications are obvious. If Ebola victims choose to believe that the solution to Ebola actually lies in churches, mosques or with traditional healers (which, in the absence of a medical cure, is not such a farfetched scenario), they will flock to these places in search of healing, dramatically raising the chances of an outbreak of a real epidemic.

In the earlier stages of the outbreak, confusion about the origins of the disease combined with distrust of Western medical intervention to trigger anger and mass protests in Sierra Leone. Some relatives of victims kidnapped their loved ones from hospital, apparently in an attempt to offer them better treatment at home from traditional healers.

Governments clearly have a role to play in decisively countering observed and impending misinformation with correct and timely information. Which would explain why the Lagos state government has since visited the headquarters of at least two prominent Pentecostal churches, to dissuade them from actions or teachings that might undermine efforts to check the spread of the virus.

Generally, the way a government manages information in a crisis is a proxy for its capacity to manage the crisis proper. It doesn’t take long for public perception to boil down to a single question: how does one expect a government that can’t properly manage a symptom (the flow of information) to convincingly manage the underlying condition (be it rampaging terrorists or a viral hemorrhagic condition like Ebola)?

So far the Lagos state and federal governments have held regular press briefings, and launched a telephone helpline, and Twitter and Facebook pages – all of these are much welcome, as is the assurance by the state government to cooperate with the federal government.

If the discrepancy over victim numbers is put aside, the unusual urgency, honesty and transparency demonstrated thus far in managing information has been impressive, but will need to be kept up in the weeks and months ahead, as the temptation to succumb to a habitual official tardiness or tightlipped-ness mounts.

In theory, accepting that lying to the public or obfuscating issues is not an option should serve to encourage governments to refrain from action they might have to lie about. The net effect of that stance for Nigeria’s governments would be a greater quality of action; the very thing the country needs the most to stand a fighting chance in the face of an enemy as lethal as Ebola.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/truth-about-ebola-accurat
e-information


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Saturday, August 9, 2014 10:04 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


So don't you think the 'my sources and more trustworthy than your sources' argument has been kind of thrashed to death now?


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Saturday, August 9, 2014 11:27 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


G's focus on 'sources' rather than facts strikes me as quintessential RWA.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 9, 2014 11:57 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
G's focus on 'sources' rather than facts strikes me as quintessential RWA.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.


Actually G has shown his search for the truth no's no Ideologies. As for me I see every debate you engage in has you accusing the other "so you don't believe in facts then". For a while now the debate about who posts bull here has been solved 1kiki and it's you.


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Sunday, August 10, 2014 2:22 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You linked to a "End of America" web site as providing definitive information - "REALLY???" You really trust those obvious nut job sites?


No, I don't trust those websites and I don't expect you to, either. I DO expect you to validate the information using background knowledge, search routines, and your powers of observation and reason.

Quote:

You really trust that just because they cite Reuters that they haven't manipulated the info?

Actually, I DID check Reuters, and I expected you to do the same.

Quote:

I don't trust any media outlet, but

Well, you can stop right there. Do you know what "No... but" means? It means Yes". So, what you're saying is... I don't trust any media outlet but - yes, I do trust some.

I know what you're going to say: There are different levels of trust. That some sites are just more "reliable" than others. That you're not really "trusting", it's just based on your "experience", some sites are just more consistent.

Save your breath. According to you, there's no way to tell what's really going on, no way to predict the future, and therefore no way to judge whether a news source is reflecting reality or not. So all you have to go on is whether news sources agree with other mainstream sites, as far as I can tell.

Quote:

It wasnt necessarily for you, not everything is for you.
It builds a picture of the Russian press and what their civilians are being told. I would think you might be interested in that.

RT in English is definitely NOT for Russian audiences. Because Russian audiences don't read English, correct? So ... what's your point?

Quote:

Christ, you keep coming back to "I predicted..." get over yourself. These are real events affecting real people and you keep wanting brownie points for guessing. You are so far removed and safe you act like they only exist to help you prove what a brilliant person you are. It's not about you - do you get that?
No, of course it's NOT about me, altho you somehow keep making it that way!

Do you know anything about the scientific method? Prediction is at the heart of demonstrating whether a hypothesis is false, Here are predictions, based on hypotheses:

If you drop an apple, it will fall down.
NASA calculates where a planet will be next year.
A designed molecule should have a desired effect on a bacterium.
This economy will collapse in one year.
A quantum particle should exist with these specific properties.
The next species examined should show similar progression in evolutionary development.
Earthquakes occur where crustal plates collide.
Tomorrow will be warm and sunny.
The earth's temperature will rise 2 deg C in 20 years.

To the extent that a predictive model reflects reality, its predictions will be accurate. The use of predictions is to test the strength of the model. When I point out that my predictions HAVE come true (despite your insistence that nothing of the sort can be done) I'm simply trying to tell you that the models that I use are consistent enough with reality to be somewhat reliable. Where they fail is where they need to be corrected.

If you're at all interested in the assumptions and processes used for predictions (although I doubt it) I'd be happy to discuss them.


--------------
THUGR is a tyrant-loving pro-jihadist.

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Sunday, August 10, 2014 2:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So don't you think the 'my sources and more trustworthy than your sources' argument has been kind of thrashed to death now?
TOTALLY!



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THUGR is a tyrant-loving pro-jihadist.

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Sunday, August 10, 2014 11:00 AM

THGRRI


To read how some here claim they are not using unreliable sources is laughable. I will predict here and now it will take no time at all, for them to post opinions gathered from these propaganda sites they deny quoting. It is remarkable to me how in the last two months or so they have spewed the lies and misinformation coming from these sources to us who have been debating them, only to watch them be allowed to make an argument they do not. Bullshit….G, we have been seeing them follow the story lines coming from these news sources and pointing it out as we go. What’s to argue about? There is no discussion to be had. It is what they do and for them to say otherwise fits their profile and style of posting.

I will give you a hint. Whatever geopolitical policies the west and our allies pursue they will be countering with policies coming from the East. In order for them to learn what those policies are they will resource these corrupted news sources. Let’s not forget they post links to sites that if you follow them and read the story, you will see it does not say what they claim at all. Does that ring a bell with anyone here? They don’t even represent what we say to them accurately. Does that ring a bell with anyone here? Ever have to say I did not say that read it again? I don’t care what Sig or 1kiki posts about being fair. They are not even fair and honest in what they say about what we posted. Give me a break…..



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Sunday, August 10, 2014 11:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


THUGR, you still don't get it, do you?

Huh. How can I make this pellucidly clear? This has been the pattern of our so-called discussions since they started:

"America has created great smoking clusterfucks in the mideast"- SIGNY
"You just hate America"- THUGR

"You can't develop a nation with bombs"- SIGNY
"You're a Russian-lover"- THUGR

"America shipped arms to jihdists"- SIGNY
"You're unpatriotic"- THUGR

"Here is a list of nations where we overthrew democracies and installed tyrannies"- SIGNY
"You just hate America" -THUGER


You never actually address the points that are being made. Instead, you derail the discussion using personal attacks. I think MAGONS said it best
Quote:

BTW Ad hominem means to attack the man (or woman) rather than address the argument. It doesn't mean you are right or wrong, but you've chosen to get personal rather than discuss the subject.

You use ad hominens and they're a well-recognized rhetorical trick around these parts. So welcome to the land of ad-hominems! I'll be bringing out several of them so you can try them on for size. After all, if you're not playing fair, why should I?



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THUGR is a jarhead.

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Sunday, August 10, 2014 11:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


G

Quote:

I read your entire post thinking it was pretty well reasoned
So, I take it you agree with me?

Quote:

and then I get to the end and you add: "THUGR is a tyrant-loving pro-jihadist." That just takes the cake.

Or is this your attempt to run away, by objecting to something you never objected to from THUGR? (See above) Because (pssst!) your bias is showing.

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