REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Countdown to Freedom

POSTED BY: JCKNIFE
UPDATED: Sunday, November 20, 2022 12:41
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Sunday, June 27, 2004 5:24 PM

JCKNIFE


78 Days now until the sunset of the Clinton gun ban. On September 13th, that particular piece of legislation will end unless renewed by congress, which only has a few working days left between now and then because of their sizeable summer recess. Surely Feinstein will try some last-ditch effort, but all signs are pointing to a sunset.

This means the end of another piece of the Clinton legacy but also a nice step forward for the Second Amendment. Ultimately, it's really not that big a deal because mostly the net effect of the ban was to remove certain cosmetic features that were "too scary" for civilian guns. Anyone remember the last bayonetting? Me neither.

The end of the Clinton gun ban does NOT put AK-47's and Uzi's back on the streets as Feinstein and her kind would have you believe. Machine guns have been regulated since the 1930's and that is not changing. Any deer rifle is as powerful or more powerful as any gun affected by this dying ban.

Anyway, I'm just excited about the countdown and saving up for the "evil features" that I'll now be allowed to add to my collection.

"It's my very favorite gun."

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 6:17 PM

CALIGARI


Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

If one is part of a standing militia (which is unnessary, given the role of the National Guard), then the aforementioned would have relevence. But given that one _does_ have the right to keep and bear arms, I completely agree. One has the right to buy a firearm, and keep it in their residence, and _hopefully_ get training with it, and _hopefully_ keep it in a place that it will not be available to violent indivduals (over half of all domestic firearm incidents occur between individuals who know each other), and given all this, one must recognize that firearm technology has far exceeded the dreams of the Founding Fathers, wherein someone can empty a clip of 9mm into a body faster than a minuteman can plug the same body with a round with a muzzleloader. Hence, to take a life is a hell of a lot easier to do than it was back in the day. To this end, one, I feel, is privilaged to own one or more handguns of a suitable level of domestic power, a suitable of "sporting" rifles and shotguns for one's proposed intentions, this is, to my mind, in the "spirit" of the Second Amendment, but to have on hand something that can chew through a human body in half in less than a couple of seconds, I have only one thing to say about that; If you need such a thing in your home to feel safe, you need to move....

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 6:20 PM

VISIONARY




I fear for the United States.

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you finish criticizing him, you are a mile away....and you have his shoes."

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 6:23 PM

VISIONARY


Hey, I just noticed that the little blue vomit guy sends some spray out his nose too.

That's funny !

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you finish criticizing him, you are a mile away....and you have his shoes."

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Monday, June 28, 2004 2:14 AM

JCKNIFE


Quote:

Originally posted by Caligari:
If one is part of a standing militia [...blah blah blah U.N. Press Release crap...]



These couple of quotes should help you understand the "Spirit" of the Second Amendment:

"The tree of liberty must from time to time be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots."
--Thomas Jefferson

"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the Peoples' Liberty's Teeth." -- George Washington

"Americans need not fear the federal government because they enjoy the advantage of being armed, which you possess over the people of almost every other nation." James Madison.

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution (1788).

Finally, the fact that firearms are more advanced today has no bearing on the argument. Their efficiency is more than offset by the efficiency of their opposition.


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Monday, June 28, 2004 2:44 AM

JCKNIFE


Just noticed--the "Sponsored links" over on the side are all "pricing guns" and "caulking guns." Too funny!

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Monday, June 28, 2004 2:47 AM

SOUTHERNMERC


Noticed that as well. BTW, didn't Ben Franklin say something like "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote." ?

Jayne: "See, Vera? You get dressed up, you get taken someplace fun!"

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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 8:59 PM

MACBAKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JCKnife:
Quote:

Originally posted by Caligari:
If one is part of a standing militia [...blah blah blah U.N. Press Release crap...]



That "milita is the national guard" argument that the gun grabbers use is so tired! The second amendment is a part of the Bill Of Rights. The Bill Of Rights lists individual rights! Why would the second ammendment be included in the that section, if it wasn't referring to an individual right? The gun grabbers can never answer that question!! :)

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:24 PM

DRAKON


The Bill of Rights is not an innumeration of the rights of the citizens. It is a limitation on the powers of the government. While the second amendment is framed with regard toward a militia, it is generally been regarded as a limitation on the government's power to take such weapons away from individuals. (Yes there is disagreement here, but frankly, the opposition really does not have much of a precident to stand on.)

Now think about this for a moment. Do you really want a government so powerful it can determine whether you are allowed to defend yourself or not?

I am familiar with all the scare stories about nut jobs with guns. But I am also familiar with even more stories of guns being used to prevent death, robbery, rape and other crimes. Usually without being fired.

Without the right to self defense, the right to life, as recognized by the Declaration of Independence is meaningless. By granting power to a government to determine the means of self defense, you are placing a limitation on the individual's right to life. And worse, rendering those rights a mere whim of the governing party.

As long as the citizens are armed, that gives the government reason to stay within it's proper limitations. Without that element, the government has the power to do whatever it wants, to the detriment of its citizens. You don't like it, tough, they can and will just shoot you.

And considering the fact that continued and constant police protection is neither doable nor really desirable in a free society, an unarmed citizenry is simply aiding and abetting thieves, murderers and rapists. Not a good idea at all.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 6:54 AM

JCKNIFE


Down to 75 days now...

http://home.att.net/~jcknife/joe/Waxman.bmp

*How do you make it parse the URL and just show the picture?

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 7:14 AM

HERO


Just thought I'd mention that while the 2nd Amendment to the US COnstitution is all well and good it is not the sole limitation on the power of government to regulate the right to bear arms.

"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security" Ohio Constitution.

Most states agree and don't always have that pesky "well regulated militia" part.

Just got my concealed carry permit. I'm carrying the permit, but not a gun yet somehow I feel safer.

H

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 7:24 AM

JCKNIFE


Congrats, Hero! I've had my CHL for a little over a month. I'm carrying a Para-Ord Tac Four and I love it. YMMV.

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 8:10 AM

SGTGUMP


Quote:

Originally posted by Caligari:
...one must recognize that firearm technology has far exceeded the dreams of the Founding Fathers, wherein someone can empty a clip of 9mm into a body faster than a minuteman can plug the same body with a round with a muzzleloader. Hence, to take a life is a hell of a lot easier to do than it was back in the day.



That is true. And I support the removal of mass media; Television, Radio, Internet Etcetera. When the first amendment was written, it was written with quill pens and parchment paper in mind. This "improvement" and "progress" stuff has got to go.

"And you've figured it out?" - Dante

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 8:21 AM

SGTGUMP


OMG someone was using my screen name above and managed to sound very sarcastic.

"Reefer!" - Thorny
"Reavers!" - Mal

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 8:27 AM

JCKNIFE


Quote:

Originally posted by sgtgump:
And I support the removal of mass media; Television, Radio, Internet Etcetera. When the first amendment was written, it was written with quill pens and parchment paper in mind.



That is brilliant. I'm using that from now on.

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 5:32 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by JCKnife:
Congrats, Hero! I've had my CHL for a little over a month. I'm carrying a Para-Ord Tac Four and I love it. YMMV.



Thanks, I've got a nice little 9mm S&W and a couple large capacity mags that should make my next trip to Cleveland so much more (satisfying, enjoyable, meaningful, productive...hmmm how bout...) safe.

H

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Thursday, July 1, 2004 6:31 PM

TIGER


Drakon,

Wonderful post. You took the words right out of my keyboard. Anyone involved in this thread should read it.

---------------------------------------------
...In pleasant peace and security
How suddenly the soul in a man begins to die.
He shall look up above the stalled oxen
Envying the cruel falcon,
And dig under the straw for a stone
To bruise himself on.

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Thursday, July 8, 2004 2:41 AM

JCKNIFE


Hmmm, I just read that a bill allowing law enforcement officers to practice nationwide concealed-carry (presumably off-duty) has passed both houses of congress and is headed to the president's desk. Some of my friends at AR15.com are calling it "class warfare" but to me it's a reversal of the same incrementalism that has been used against gun rights since the 30's. If cops can have national CCW, maybe us regular folks can too, soon (we have it in 46 states, for crying out loud).

And just for the icing on the cake, the bill passed both houses WITHOUT a renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban tacked on--we're down to 66 days!

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Sunday, November 20, 2022 12:24 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


‘You did it!’: Biden basks in midterms afterglow after beating expectations

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/20/joe-biden-midterms-dem
ocrats-presidency

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Sunday, November 20, 2022 12:41 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
‘You did it!’: Biden basks in midterms afterglow after beating expectations

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/20/joe-biden-midterms-dem
ocrats-presidency




Hollow "victory". Nancy is gone. Hunter Biden will finally be investigated. J6 theater is over. Fauci/Big Pharma will finally be investigated. Biden* will be impeached. Republicans will show Democrats how ballot harvesting is done in states where they allowed it going forward. GenZ and Millennials won't be getting their $10k student debt buyoff that they voted for. Etc, etc, etc.



--------------------------------------------------

Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

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