REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Republican or Democrat

POSTED BY: TIGHTPANTS
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Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:06 AM

CONSCIENCE


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
I think Zoe has always been a realist.



SoupCatcher, how exactly would you define a Realist?

Because this is how the Christian Science Monitor describes it.

Realists…

* Are guided more by practical considerations than ideological vision
* Believe US power is crucial to successful diplomacy - and vice versa
* Don't want US policy options unduly limited by world opinion or ethical considerations
* Believe strong alliances are important to US interests
* Weigh the political costs of foreign action
* Believe foreign intervention must be dictated by compelling national interest

Historical realist: President Dwight D. Eisenhower
Modern realist: Secretary of State Colin Powell

http://www.csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/neoConQuiz.pl

Or did you mean realist in a non-political way?

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Sunday, September 19, 2004 8:33 AM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by Conscience
SoupCatcher, how exactly would you define a Realist?

Because this is how the Christian Science Monitor describes it.

Realists…

* Are guided more by practical considerations than ideological vision
* Believe US power is crucial to successful diplomacy - and vice versa
* Don't want US policy options unduly limited by world opinion or ethical considerations
* Believe strong alliances are important to US interests
* Weigh the political costs of foreign action
* Believe foreign intervention must be dictated by compelling national interest

Historical realist: President Dwight D. Eisenhower
Modern realist: Secretary of State Colin Powell

http://www.csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/neoConQuiz.pl

Or did you mean realist in a non-political way?


I'm not sure what you provided is a definition so much as a set of attributes that the CS Monitor thinks are generalizable for realists. Of those attributes, the first one is probably closest to what I meant with that description of Zoe.
Realist - One who is inclined to literal truth and pragmatism. {dictionary.com}
Idealist - One whose conduct is influenced by ideals that often conflict with practical considerations. {dictionary.com}

Basically, I was trying to add some dimension to the discussion of the politics of our BDHs (rampant speculation coming up) by trying to delve into their motivations. I think that we have enough information about Mal, and CrevanReaver's suggestion of Anarcho-Capitalist looks like a good fit to me. But I don't think we have enough information about Zoe so I was starting to pull together what we do know. The only backstory we have about Zoe is that she served in the war with Mal. I think Mal saw the war as more of a crusade. He passionately believed in the cause of the Independents, that the cause was right, just, etc. That's why I labeled him as an idealist. There's nothing quite like an idealist getting smacked upside the head by reality, and that's exactly what happened to Mal in Serenity Valley. He also made the unfortunate mistake of believing that God was on the side of the Browncoats. It's not that he doesn't believe in God anymore, it's that he is PISSED off at God for the loss of the war (there's been some good discussion on this topic in the archives if you're interested). So that's why I labeled him as a reformed idealist. His response to the war was to retreat, to maintain existence and go through the motions, but he's not fighting for any big cause, he just wants to take care of him and his own. The arrival of River threatens to upset that equilibrium. Now he's starting to care again.

I'm not sure why Zoe fought for the Browncoats. And it doesn't really matter. But she took a very practical approach - she became the most efficient killer she could be. I personally don't think Zoe waxes nostalgic for the cause, the war is over and she has moved on. While Mal is just maintaining, Zoe appears to have the attitude of, "This is where I am in life, so I will live my life here." Getting married. Caring about the crew. Wanting to have a child. She seems to me to be a perfect example of a realist.

I find the relationship of Mal and Zoe one of the most fascinating in the Firefly 'verse. But I've rambled long enough. So that's what I meant by my quick throw away line, Conscience. I think the flashback to the battle of Du Khang (sp?) highlights the differences between how a realist and an idealist practice war.

editted to add: So, Conscience, have you given any thought to the question I posed earlier to you in regards to Kaylee's morality?


I shaved off my beard for you, devil woman!

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Sunday, September 19, 2004 8:41 AM

STANDING8


democrat.

-Soul Rebel-

a love supreme dreaming...

http://www.livejournal.com/users/standing8

updated: 9/17/04!

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Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:49 AM

IAMJACKSUSERNAME

Well, I'm all right. - Mal


Mal's a thief, so not so much with the 21st century capitalist libertarianism. A CL would only take someone else's property if it's legal to do so, or war.

Of course some of 'em'd like it to be legal for a rich person to buy a pauper's lung so the pauper can afford an air filter...
--
I am Jack's asbestos suit

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Saturday, September 25, 2004 6:26 PM

NEUTRINOLAD


What some of you are misapprehending (and some of you ain't) is that the Alliance is the Republicans AND the Democrats.
I would say they are akin to, if anything, the BullMoose Party.
Those that are the the joing kind, that is.

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Saturday, September 25, 2004 6:26 PM

NEUTRINOLAD


What some of you are misapprehending (and some of you ain't) is that the Alliance is the Republicans AND the Democrats.
I would say they are akin to, if anything, the BullMoose Party.
Those that are the the joining kind, that is.

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Saturday, September 25, 2004 6:30 PM

NEUTRINOLAD


Reminds me of an old old joke.
A Democrat with integrity, a self-reliant Republican, Santa Claus, and the Easter Bunny all pull up to a 4-way stop simultaneously. Who goes first?

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Thursday, October 7, 2004 10:06 AM

CREVANREAVER


Libertatis Æquilibritas

One thing a know for certain is that either Mal or Zoe would wipe the floor with Kerry, Bush, Cheney or Edwards in a debate!

If anyone's interested here is some info about the various incarnations of the BullMoose Party that Neutrinolad mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_moose_party

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Saturday, October 9, 2004 3:53 AM

FIREFLEW


How about the Constitutionalist Party?

___________________________________
Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Saturday, October 9, 2004 12:11 PM

CREVANREAVER


Yeah, maybe!


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Saturday, October 9, 2004 1:04 PM

FIREFLEW


Quote:

Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
Yeah, maybe!




Let this be known: I know jack all about American politics .

___________________________________
Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Tuesday, October 12, 2004 1:53 PM

ROCKETJOCK


Quote:

Originally posted by spikeandjezebel:
I just want to say that I'm very pleased that this thread has not devolved into the usual "Republicans suck! No, you're stupid, Democrats suck!" type of dialogue. Once again proving that, whatever your political affiliation, a Browncoat is generally smarter than the average citizen!



Actually, being a registered member of the "A curse on both your houses!" party (i.e., Libertarian), I think the Republicrats and the Demigogs suck more or less equally. Or if not suck, at least inhale very deeply.

Seriously, the essentually identical nature of the two major parties is a source of constant amusement for me. And the current dead heat race for president is frighteningly reminiscent of the 2000 election -- if it gets down to a recount of the Florida vote again this year, I'm seriously going to look into obtaining Canadian citizenship. They aren't any more free than U.S. citizens, but at least they're more polite about it...

"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein

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Tuesday, October 12, 2004 2:32 PM

CREVANREAVER


Quote:

Originally posted by RocketJock:
I'm seriously going to look into obtaining Canadian citizenship.



RocketJock, I'm also a Libertarian and I have to tell you, that although we have our problem in this country we are still much better a country than that socialist nation up north.

http://www.negativepositive.org/fuck-canada.html

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Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:56 AM

ROCKETJOCK


Geez, I thought I was just being sardonic. Maybe I should have picked Australia instead. No idea what their personal freedom index is like, but at least there's plenty of outback to go hide in...

hy-larious web site though. "Blame Canada, Blame Canada..."



"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein

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Friday, June 13, 2008 10:52 PM

SOOKA5


I think everyone in this thread is missing the mark. You cannot make observations on serenenty's crew and their political affiliation. The reason being that they do not live in the same world we do. You could call them libertarians despite the fact that they tend to care about a lot of the good people they meet and share what is theres with them hence inviting shepard and simon/river onboard. This makes them more socialist than anything. One person made a point about them not being liberal because democrats tend to be against "second amendment rights." This statement is stupid because they do not live in todays world. Believe it or not but liberals during the civil war era all caried guns. These people live in a westen style "free for all" existance. Everyone has to carry a weapon merely to survive. You have to hate big government (not because they are republican), but because the big government we are talking about is a fascist dictatorship. My best guess as to what the political standing of the serenety crew: is the absence of political judgement. They dont have politics on their mind. They live in a world of survival and little more matters to them. Sure there are parallels to the civil war and them being on the conf. side, however because race is not an issue here, you cannot clearly make that connection. That jerk in this thread that keeps saying "confederates were morally surperior(except for slavery)" is an idiot. Except for slavery!!!! Slavery is a pretty freakin big deal ass! That said, obviously Joss wanted connections to coincide with the western essence of the show, but in no way can you clearly make a modern connection to any sort of political faction today be it liberal, conservative, libertarian, socialist or w/e. this show isnt political, it is merely an homage to the essence of the western civil war period with some vast differences. You could also make the connection with the colonies vs. the british in the revolutionary war, but w.e its not part of the show.....sorry for all the typos its late and im typing fast.

-I want a spaceship so i can leave this place.

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 1:34 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Gotta be independents. No way are Browncoats recognizable to either GOP or Democrats, not of the currant variety. Mal puts it best... " That's what governments are for. Get in a man's way." If you're going to be strict and make a " either or " edict, then it'd have to be the GOP. The Republicans are less for Big Gov't, centralized authoritarian control. Mal in his shipping business would fare better if the Alliance were more GOP than Democratic.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 5:32 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

The Republicans are less for Big Gov't, centralized authoritarian control.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHH!!!!

LESS for Big Government? LESS for centralized, authoritarian control? Republicans are for LESS of these things? Their track record of the past 8 years clearly says otherwise. You've created entire new agencies with Cabinet-level authority, you've tried to centralize ALL the power in government in the hands of a single person (the "unitary Executive" theory of the Presidency). You've decided to listen in on the phone calls of every American, you've expanded the use of warrantless searches in direct contravention of the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, you've repeatedly taken the side of big corporations and trampled on the rights of the little guy, and you've dramatically expanded military spending and the mission of that military.

Don't try to say that you're "for" less government and less authoritarianism when your deeds clearly contradict such a baseless claim. In the scenario of Firefly, THIS government is the Alliance, all fascism and control. Our little crew is like a tiny band of survivalists trying to stay out of the government's way.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 9:08 AM

RALLEM


I'm not a very big fan of the browncoats, which I understand might be a dangerous thing to say here, but while I agree with the initial goal of the rebellion, I have to remember it was the Browncoats who dropped all of those units into Serenity Valley to do the impossible and failed to assist or even attempt a rescue of those troops when needed.



http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:27 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Libertarian, Independent, Reform.
The Browncoats didn't give up at BOSV, the high command of the Independent Army did. Polititians.

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Thursday, November 10, 2022 8:08 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Progressive group preemptively blames Manchin for likely Democratic losses in midterms

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/progressive-group-preemptively-blames
-manchin-likely-democratic-losses-midterms

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