State of the Union 2018 by SIGNYM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Signym, your either/or choice does not cover what the Pentagon is doing- SECOND
So, you admit there IS a deep state, which does what IT wants to do irrespective of the President?

That's an utterly silly interpretation of what I wrote. The "Deep State" complained about by Trump and his White House and Congressional Republicans are the long term employees who investigate financial crimes, the same people who are investigating Trump.

It has been clear that the "Deep State" Pentagon has the same motive today as it did since bombing cities in WWII: murdering 1 civilian for every 1 enemy soldier it kills and shrugging it all off as the physics of shock waves. With atom bombs the Pentagon can get the kill ratio up to 100 or even 1,000 civilians for every 1 dead enemy soldier. Such efficiency is a Deep part of the American way!

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 5:59 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
second - not continued because NK broke agreements it had signed up for and oh yeah, the US was knee deep in trying to retaliate against al-Qaeda by then. But the owus was on NK, not the GOP. Nice try.

Not the GOP's fault? Bush was too busy with al-Qaeda? Bush had a specialist working on N Korea. Do you remember John Bolton, Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and, later, US Ambassador to the UN? If you want to claim he wasn’t working for the GOP, that is fine with me, but if you do, you will never understand why the deal with N Korea fell apart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Bolton#Under_Secretary_of_State

Bolton sabotaged every agreement about weapons of mass destruction, including the one with N Korea. He told Congress, the World, anyone who would listen, what his opinion was in the strongest, most undiplomatic words. Because Bolton was shouting it, N Korea heard that the US would not keep its bargain. Congress made that a fact by not funding the new power generating plants in N Korea.

Because the US also wasn’t providing the heavy fuel oil it had agreed to for power generation, thanks to the GOP Congress, N Korea kept operating the old power plants, the ones that made electricity and large quantities of plutonium for bombs. Over the decades those plants have made enough plutonium for a hundred bombs. Thank you, John Bolton and the GOP for the job not well done ending the proliferation of nukes.

Trump would have hired Bolton, except for the walrus mustache. Be thankful Bolton won’t shave it off. "He's a bomb thrower. And a strange little f---er." The nuclear agreement with N Korea was ended by the Under Secretary of State for Arms Control who was a strange little fucker working for George Bush.
www.businessinsider.com/john-bolton-mustache-cost-him-trump-cabinet-po
st-fire-and-fury-claims-2018-1

Trump is doing to the Iran Nuclear deal what Bush did to the N Korea Nuclear Deal:

www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-nuclear-iran/irans-rouhani-raps-new-u-s
-nuclear-plan-as-threat-to-russia-idUSKBN1FO074
The review of U.S. nuclear policy published on Friday has riled Russia, which viewed the document as confrontational, and raised fears that it could increase the risk of miscalculation between the two world powers.

“The Americans are shamelessly threatening Russia with a new atomic weapon,” Iranian President Hassan Rouhani, a pragmatist who opened the way to Tehran’s 2015 nuclear deal with world powers including longtime adversary Washington, said in a speech.

“The same people who supposedly believe that using weapons of mass destruction is a crime against humanity ... are talking about new weapons to threaten or use against rivals,” he said in his televised address.

Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif earlier warned in a tweet that the U.S. policy document posed the risk of “bringing humankind closer to annihilation”.

Zarif also said in his tweet: “(U.S. President Donald)Trump’s obduracy in killing the #JCPOA (Iran’s nuclear deal with world powers) stems from the same dangerous imprudence”.

Trump gave the Iran nuclear deal, negotiated before he took office, a final reprieve last month but warned that U.S. would exit.

---

For more John Bolton (you know you want to read about him screwing the nuclear deal with N Korea) see "A History of the Korean Peninsula Energy Development Organization (KEDO) 1994-2006" http://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/A_History_of_KEDO-1.
pdf

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 9:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Signym, your either/or choice does not cover what the Pentagon is doing- SECOND

So, you admit there IS a deep state, which does what IT wants to do irrespective of the President?

That's an utterly silly interpretation of what I wrote. The "Deep State" complained about by Trump and his White House and Congressional Republicans are the long term employees who investigate financial crimes, the same people who are investigating Trump.

Wrong. As usual. But I digress...

Quote:
It has been clear that the "Deep State" Pentagon has the same motive today as it did since bombing cities in WWII: murdering 1 civilian for every 1 enemy soldier it kills and shrugging it all off as the physics of shock waves. With atom bombs the Pentagon can get the kill ratio up to 100 or even 1,000 civilians for every 1 dead enemy soldier. Such efficiency is a Deep part of the American way!- SECOND

First you say that I'm utterly silly pointing out YOUR interpretation of the Deep State, then you go on to repeat what I said about the deep state! The Pentagon ... are they not long-term employees who persist through Presidency after Presidency, Congress after Congress? Do they not have a budgetary interest to maintain and expand their funding and power? Do they not ... as YOU pointed out .... have an agenda which is (at least sometimes) divergent from that of the President (whoever that might be) when you posted

Quote:
your either/or choice [about Trump] does not cover what the Pentagon is doing

?

As far as I can tell, you just made the case for the Pentagon being "a" part of the deep state, and all YOU'RE doing now is quibbling about who is part of the deep state and who isn't.

Child, I have never said that the deep state is a unified, monolithic interest bloc. In fact, I believe that I've pointed out, numerous times, that there is a current power struggle going on between ONE part of the deep state (CIA/ State Dept/ NGOs) and ANOTHER part of the deep state (formal military/ Pentagon).

In fact, I would also say that there is a pattern becoming apparent: Lately, Republicans tend to support the formal military while the Dems rely more on the CIA/ State Dept/ NGOs to do their destabilizations for them. For example, Bill cut the Pentagon budget in a big "peace dividend" budget-saving move; Bush II opted for big, boots-on-the-ground/ tanks/ airplanes invasions; and Obama - averse to "boots on the ground" losses/ optics- relied on the secret CIA program of drone warfare; and NGOs, State Dept and the CIA to justify, cover, and arm/fund/train jihadists and other proxies.

In fact, I see Syria as something of a test case. In the beginning, the CIA/ State Dept set up a "rat line" of arms from Benghazi, Libya to Syria while the Army set up a formal training camp in Jordan. Early defections from the Jordanian training camps ... where Arabs took their training and arms from the Jordanian camps straight to al Qaeda ... led to the Syria project being given over the the CIA. (The CIA leaked the Pentagon's failures to the press, btw.)

But once the CIA's proxies (which were also supported by Saudi Arabia and Qatar) were bested by the Syrian/ Russian/ Iranian/ Hezbollah military....

... and the CIA failed to destabilize/ overturn Turkey and Lebanon in quick succession, Saudi Arabia went rogue, and all of the dominoes fell in the wrong direction ... Trump withdrew funding from the CIA project in Syria.

So YOUR characterization of Trump being against financial regulators in 100% off the mark and deliberately misleading.

Trump is against the CIA/ State Dept/ NGO nexus. He has chosen the formal military as his paladin, because in THIS game you can't stand naked and undefended (literally).

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 10:06 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Wrong. As usual. But I digress...

First you say that I'm utterly silly pointing out YOUR interpretation of the Deep State, then you go on to repeat what I said about the deep state!

Signym, I am always thrilled by your extremely long responses. I can't match your length, but I can point you to a comic on the topic of the FBI morphing into the "Deep State" at least per GOP partisans:

www.thenation.com/article/trusty-republicans-unearth-deep-state-conspi
racy/
Trusty Republicans Unearth Deep-State Conspiracy. Take that, FBI!

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 10:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Signym, your either/or choice does not cover what the Pentagon is doing- SECOND

So, you admit there IS a deep state, which does what IT wants to do irrespective of the President?- SIGNY

That's an utterly silly interpretation of what I wrote. The "Deep State" complained about by Trump and his White House and Congressional Republicans are the long term employees who investigate financial crimes, the same people who are investigating Trump.- SECOND

Wrong. As usual. But I digress...

Quote:
It has been clear that the "Deep State" Pentagon has the same motive today as it did since bombing cities in WWII: murdering 1 civilian for every 1 enemy soldier it kills and shrugging it all off as the physics of shock waves. With atom bombs the Pentagon can get the kill ratio up to 100 or even 1,000 civilians for every 1 dead enemy soldier. Such efficiency is a Deep part of the American way!- SECOND

Quote:
your either/or choice [about Trump] does not cover what the Pentagon is doing

?

As far as I can tell, you just made the case for the Pentagon being "a" part of the deep state, and all YOU'RE doing now is quibbling about who is part of the deep state and who isn't.

Child, I have never said that the deep state is a unified, monolithic interest bloc. In fact, I believe that I've pointed out, numerous times, that there is a current power struggle going on between ONE part of the deep state (CIA/ State Dept/ NGOs) and ANOTHER part of the deep state (formal military/ Pentagon).

In fact, I would also say that there is a pattern becoming apparent: Lately, Republicans tend to support the formal military while the Dems rely more on the CIA/ State Dept/ NGOs to do their destabilizations for them. For example, Bill cut the Pentagon budget in a big "peace dividend" budget-saving move; Bush II opted for big, boots-on-the-ground/ tanks/ airplanes invasions; and Obama - averse to "boots on the ground" losses/ optics- relied on the secret CIA program of drone warfare; and NGOs, State Dept and the CIA to justify, cover, and arm/fund/train jihadists and other proxies.

In fact, I see Syria as something of a test case. In the beginning, the CIA/ State Dept set up a "rat line" of arms from Benghazi, Libya to Syria while the Army set up a formal training camp in Jordan. Early defections from the Jordanian training camps ... where Arabs took their training and arms from the Jordanian camps straight to al Qaeda ... led to the Syria project being given over the the CIA. (The CIA leaked the Pentagon's failures to the press, btw.)

But once the CIA's proxies (which were also supported by Saudi Arabia and Qatar) were bested by the Syrian/ Russian/ Iranian/ Hezbollah military....

... and the CIA failed to destabilize/ overturn Turkey and Lebanon in quick succession, Saudi Arabia went rogue, and all of the dominoes fell in the wrong direction ... Trump withdrew funding from the CIA project in Syria.

So YOUR characterization of Trump being against financial regulators in 100% off the mark and deliberately misleading.

Trump is against the CIA/ State Dept/ NGO nexus. He has chosen the formal military as his paladin, because in THIS game you can't stand naked and undefended (literally). - SIGNY

Signym, I am always thrilled by your extremely long responses. I can't match your length

You also can't rebut my points. You're wrong. You DID admit that there is a deep state, you attempted to mischaracterize who is acting against Trump (no, it is not "financial regulators"), and you have to resort to a comic - which is your usual response once you've been cornered - to patronize what someone else posts.

So, yeah, your comic ...

Quote:
I can point you to a comic on the topic of the FBI morphing into the "Deep State" a least per GOP partisans

You'll excuse me if I patronize you.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 10:57 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Signym, you wrote

Quote:
Trump is against the CIA/ State Dept/ NGO nexus. He has chosen the formal military as his paladin, because in THIS game you can't stand naked and undefended (literally).

Signym, what do you mean? Do you want Trump to order the Pentagon to send troops to check ID badges at the CIA headquarters in Langley Virginia and the Harry S Truman building of the State Dept.? What are you really saying, Signym? How can the military step into the Trump/Russian investigation? What role do you imagine the Pentagon playing while defending naked "(literally)" Trump?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:30 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Bolton sabotaged...

Good grief.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:33 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Bolton sabotaged...

Good grief.

I suspect you won’t read what Bolton did, nor understand if you did read, but for the record:

http://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/A_History_of_KEDO-1.
pdf
Ambassador Jack Pritchard
“The Agreed Framework finally had been hung out to dry. Certainly John Bolton was just ecstatic that they had finally found a way to kill it.

“I actually thought it (KEDO) would die faster than it did. I think most people in the US attempted to kill it faster. I think Jim Kelly and others had a notion that you turn the light switch off and walk away. They didn’t have an appreciation for the fact that we had people on the ground, that we had enormous investments from South Koreans and subcontractors, that there was equipment — some of which could have been deemed relatively sensitive or important ... and not available elsewhere. The United States was all too willing and ready to write it off and move on; this nasty experience of the Agreed Framework was finally over with and had come to a close. In reality, the process took much longer.

“It was the South Koreans who were unwilling to let it die, (arguing) that we needed to give the North the opportunity to come back and resolve the HEU problem and that could revive KEDO and the Agreed Framework.

“The Executive Board (judged that) if we suspended operations the North Koreans would immediately know and that would be the signal that we have abandoned this (project) and there’s no hope of returning; therefore, it had to be a slow walk to the death rather than jumping off a cliff. There was a slowdown in operations, not a termination of operations there. There was a good deal of resistance in the US government to continuing to support any kind of activity in North Korea knowing that the ultimate goal was termination, but we reminded those who had that view that it (KEDO) was a consensus organization and the consensus had not yet been established for the final termination of KEDO - it was going to be a slightly slower process.

“There was an attempt in 2002 to cut off funding. And there was language put forward that really made it difficult to provide funding and I was up on the Hill talking with Chairman (Henry) Hyde and others in terms of keeping options open, that it was important to maintain KEDO as an organization and that whatever ultimate resolution there was on HEU there may very well be the recreation of a KEDO-like organization as part of the solution. I requested $3 million just to pay our share of administrative costs, not for HFO, and got $5 million. And that was the last money that ever went to KEDO (from the US).

“(But arguing to keep options open) ran into a great deal of difficulty (at State and NSC) ... ‘No, the Agreed Framework and KEDO are dead and should be terminated.’ It came out of both the White House and the State Department. From that point on it was very difficult to even interact with the North Koreans, to go to New York to visit KEDO or see the North Koreans and talk with them. There was a shutting down that was taking place in 2002-2003 that said: ‘The North Koreans are in violation. There’s nothing to be gained: retrench.’”

Ambassador Jack Pritchard
“The first inklings that I got (of trouble for KEDO) were the views of (Under Secretary of State) John Bolton and the decision not to waive the certification process (in 2001) ... Certain activities were coming to light that the Clinton Administration had chosen not to certify but to waive. The very first indication I got was from the conversations and the input from John Bolton ... that the North Koreans were not in compliance with the technical aspects of all terms of the Agreed Framework, and therefore the administration would not waive, and therefore would not seek funding for KEDO.

“I think this was early enough in the administration when there was a solid majority on this: the White House with Counter-proliferation (at NSC) under Bob Joseph and a very weak Asia (NSC office); the Vice President’s office; Doug Feith in the Pentagon - all backing this particular view. The early views of the State Department under Powell were to pick and choose your battles, and this was one that you were not going to win. Therefore, while there may have been some objections or requests for review, it was at the Korea Desk level and not much beyond that.

“Because of the (US intelligence) about the North Koreans’ highly enriched uranium program, there was a reluctance to allow me, as the US representative to KEDO, the US Board member, to attend what was being billed as a celebration: the concrete-pouring ceremony at Kumho. From the administration’s point of view, this was not going to happen. This was a program that was going to be turned off, or it was conceptually in violation, not in compliance with the Agreed Framework, and therefore we shouldn’t be involved in this concrete pouring. The reasons why we were reluctant to be involved were not (yet) publicly known. Most of the Japanese, the Koreans, and the Europeans simply believed that it was a continuation of our general reluctance to do business with the North Koreans.

“It was harder for them to accept because this was a US-dominated KEDO, with an (American) Executive Director and Board member ... If (the US) representative failed to go ... for both the Europeans and Japanese it would call into question whether their representatives should be there. There was a good deal of pressure, particularly by the South Koreans who had the chairmanship of the KEDO Board. This was a situation in which I and others tried to press — because the actual rationale of why the administration didn’t want to do this was not public — that this should be executed in the 'Cuban Missile' style in which normal interaction with the North Koreans should take place without signaling any particular or newfound intelligence concerns about North Korea.

“The draft of the remarks that I was to deliver there (in Kumho) ... had an extraordinarily difficult time in the Pentagon, which wanted to rewrite this in 'Attila the Hun’ language ... I finally got permission from Colin Powell ... an hour before I was to leave home and go to the airport. No one really knew whether I was going to show up or not to this concrete-pouring event. Once I got to Seoul, I ended up having to do an over-the-phone with John Rudd at the NSC ... and getting the NSC’s approval, which in my mind trumped any of the objections or concerns by the Pentagon. I took that as a final OK rather than a complete interagency approval process and that’s essentially what I delivered when I arrived at Kumho.”

----

The GOP killed a nuclear deal with N Korea and replaced it with nothing at all, leaving the problem that Trump now faces 16 years later.

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Signym, you wrote
Quote:
Trump is against the CIA/ State Dept/ NGO nexus. He has chosen the formal military as his paladin, because in THIS game you can't stand naked and undefended (literally).
Signym, what do you mean? Do you want Trump to order the Pentagon to send troops to check ID badges at the CIA headquarters in Langley Virginia and the Harry S Truman building of the State Dept.? What are you really saying, Signym? How can the military step into the Trump/Russian investigation? What role do you imagine the Pentagon playing while defending naked "(literally)" Trump?

Sometimes sig forgets this is America not russia. Still, that doesn't stop her from hoping our democratic institutions will give way, to the assult being waged against them by the alt right deep state conspiracy theorist.

To them I say

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:02 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND:
The "Deep State" complained about by Trump and his White House and Congressional Republicans are the long term employees who investigate financial crimes, the same people who are investigating Trump.

Do you even remember the excuse given for investigating Trump? It has nothing to do with "financial crimes".

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:13 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND:
The "Deep State" complained about by Trump and his White House and Congressional Republicans are the long term employees who investigate financial crimes, the same people who are investigating Trump.
Do you even remember the excuse given for investigating Trump? It has nothing to do with "financial crimes".

I remember the accusations that Trump was a crook because he kept his tax returns secret, despite promising many times to make them public after the imaginary audit that had already completed. And I remember accusations of Trump being a crook when he did not place his businesses into an actual blind trust, rather than the fake trust where he gave his sons the power to sign business contracts that Trump normally signs. I remember.

I also remember Trump saying that anybody investigating the Trump family businesses has crossed a line. He'd fire them, which makes me not think he has no crimes to hide. The Pentagon would probably lockup Mueller in Guantanamo if Trump asked in the right way: that it must be done to protect American Freedom.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/342845-trump-warns-mueller-
against-investigating-his-familys-finances-beyond

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:34 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

But back to the sotu. When you cut out the bombast, the self-promotion, the pandering, the formulaic cheerleading, you end up with this:

Quote:

2.4 million new jobs, including 200,000 new jobs in manufacturing
rising wages
Unemployment claims have hit a 45-year low. African-American unemployment stands at the lowest rate ever recorded, and Hispanic American unemployment has also reached the lowest levels in history.
Small business confidence is at an all-time high
The stock market has smashed one record after another, gaining $8 trillion in value
biggest tax cuts and reforms in American history provide tremendous relief for the middle class and small businesses, A typical family of four making $75,000 will see their tax bill reduced by $2,000 -- slashing their tax bill in half.
We repealed the individual mandate
We slashed the business tax rate from 35 percent all the way down to 21 percent
Small businesses can now deduct 20 percent of their business income
Apple has just announced it plans to invest a total of $350 billion in America, and hire another 20,000 workers
we are appointing judges who will interpret the Constitution as written
a new Supreme Court Justice
more circuit court judges than any new administration in the history of our country
historic actions to protect religious liberty
landmark VA Accountability Act
I call on the Congress to empower every Cabinet Secretary with the authority to reward good workers -- and to remove Federal employees who undermine the public trust or fail the American people
we have eliminated more regulations in our first year than any administration in history
We have ended the war on American Energy
We are now an exporter of energy to the world
Many car companies are now building and expanding plants in the United States
last year the FDA approved more new and generic drugs and medical devices than ever before in our history
patients with terminal conditions should have the "right to try"

priorities is to reduce the price of prescription drugs
decades of unfair trade deals
rebuild our crumbling infrastructure $1.5 trillion for the new infrastructure investment
streamline the permitting and approval process
great vocational schools
paid family leave
reforming our prisons to help former inmates who have served their time get a second chance
calling on the Congress to finally close the deadly loopholes that have allowed MS-13, and other criminals, to break into our country
proposed new legislation that will fix our immigration laws, and support our ICE and Border Patrol Agents
bipartisan approach to immigration reform, path to citizenship for 1.8 million illegal immigrants who were brought here by their parents at a young age, fully secures the border, ends the visa lottery, ending chain migration
helping get drug treatment for addicts
fully fund our great military
modernize and rebuild our nuclear arsenal
coalition to defeat ISIS has liberated almost 100 percent of the territory
directing Secretary Mattis to reexamine our military detention policy and to keep open the detention facilities at Guantánamo Bay
asking the Congress to ensure that, in the fight against ISIS and al-Qa'ida, we continue to have all necessary power to detain terrorists -- wherever we chase them down
recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel
America stands with the people of Iran
asking the Congress to address the fundamental flaws in the terrible Iran nuclear deal
tough sanctions on the communist and socialist dictatorships in Cuba and Venezuela
We are waging a campaign of maximum pressure on North Korea to prevent nuclear capability

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:37 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki
Do you even remember the excuse given for investigating Trump? It has nothing to do with "financial crimes".

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
I remember the accusations that Trump was a crook because he kept his tax returns secret, despite promising many times to make them public after the imaginary audit that had already completed.

Do you even remember the excuse given for investigating Trump? It has nothing to do with "financial crimes".

I'm repeating the question, because - as usual - you failed to answer it.

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:45 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

But back again to the sotu. When you cut out the bombast, the self-promotion, the pandering, the formulaic cheerleading, you end up with the summary below. In it are PAST CLAIMS, and FUTURE PROJECTIONS AND DIRECTIONS.

Quote:

PAST CLAIMS
2.4 million new jobs, including 200,000 new jobs in manufacturing
rising wages
Unemployment claims have hit a 45-year low. African-American unemployment stands at the lowest rate ever recorded, and Hispanic American unemployment has also reached the lowest levels in history.
Small business confidence is at an all-time high
The stock market has smashed one record after another, gaining $8 trillion in value
We repealed the individual mandate
We slashed the business tax rate from 35 percent all the way down to 21 percent
Small businesses can now deduct 20 percent of their business income
a new Supreme Court Justice
more circuit court judges than any new administration in the history of our country
historic actions to protect religious liberty
landmark VA Accountability Act
we have eliminated more regulations in our first year than any administration in history
We have ended the war on American Energy
We are now an exporter of energy to the world
last year the FDA approved more new and generic drugs and medical devices than ever before in our history
reversed decades of unfair trade deals
coalition to defeat ISIS has liberated almost 100 percent of the territory
recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel

FUTURE PROJECTIONS AND DIRECTIONS
biggest tax cuts and reforms in American history provide tremendous relief for the middle class and small businesses, A typical family of four making $75,000 will see their tax bill reduced by $2,000 -- slashing their tax bill in half.
Apple has just announced it plans to invest a total of $350 billion in America, and hire another 20,000 workers
we are appointing judges who will interpret the Constitution as written
I call on the Congress to empower every Cabinet Secretary with the authority to reward good workers -- and to remove Federal employees who undermine the public trust or fail the American people
Many car companies are now building and expanding plants in the United States
patients with terminal conditions should have the "right to try"
priorities is to reduce the price of prescription drugs
rebuild our crumbling infrastructure $1.5 trillion for the new infrastructure investment
streamline the permitting and approval process
great vocational schools
paid family leave
reforming our prisons to help former inmates who have served their time get a second chance
calling on the Congress to finally close the deadly loopholes that have allowed MS-13, and other criminals, to break into our country
proposed new legislation that will fix our immigration laws, and support our ICE and Border Patrol Agents
bipartisan approach to immigration reform, path to citizenship for 1.8 million illegal immigrants who were brought here by their parents at a young age, fully secures the border, ends the visa lottery, ending chain migration
helping get drug treatment for addicts
fully fund our great military
modernize and rebuild our nuclear arsenal
directing Secretary Mattis to reexamine our military detention policy and to keep open the detention facilities at Guantánamo Bay
asking the Congress to ensure that, in the fight against ISIS and al-Qa'ida, we continue to have all necessary power to detain terrorists -- wherever we chase them down
America stands with the people of Iran
asking the Congress to address the fundamental flaws in the terrible Iran nuclear deal
tough sanctions on the communist and socialist dictatorships in Cuba and Venezuela
We are waging a campaign of maximum pressure on North Korea to prevent nuclear capability

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:56 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Do you even remember the excuse given for investigating Trump? It has nothing to do with "financial crimes".

I'm repeating the question, because - as usual, you failed to answer it.

You never understood anything but the title of the order making Mueller a Special Prosecutor. The order does not mean Mueller investigates only Russian interference and nothing more. If you need help understanding the entire order, hire a lawyer:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3726381/Robert-Mueller-Spec
ial-Counsel-Russia.pdf

ORDER NO. 3915-2017

APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COUNSEL TO INVESTIGATE RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE WITH THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND RELATED MATTERS

By virtue of the authority vested in me as Acting Attorney General, including 28 U.S.C. §§ 509,510, and 515, in order to discharge my responsibility to provide supervision and management of the Department of Justice, and to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the Russian government’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election, I hereby order as follows:

(a) Robert S. Mueller III is appointed to serve as Special Counsel for the United States Department of Justice.

(b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James B. Comey in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).

(c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters.

(d) Sections 600.4 through 600.10 of Title 28 of the Code of Federal Regulations are applicable to the Special Counsel.

Rod J Rosenstein
Acting Attorney General

Date 5/17/17

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 2:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND:
The "Deep State" complained about by Trump and his White House and Congressional Republicans are the long term employees who investigate financial crimes, the same people who are investigating Trump.
Do you even remember the excuse given for investigating Trump? It has nothing to do with "financial crimes".
I remember the accusations that Trump was a crook because he kept his tax returns secret, despite promising many times to make them public after the imaginary audit that had already completed. And I remember accusations of Trump being a crook when he did not place his businesses into an actual blind trust, rather than the fake trust where he gave his sons the power to sign business contracts that Trump normally signs. I remember.

I also remember Trump saying that anybody investigating the Trump family businesses has crossed a line. He'd fire them, which makes me not think he has no crimes to hide. The Pentagon would probably lockup Mueller in Guantanamo if Trump asked in the right way: that it must be done to protect American Freedom.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/342845-trump-warns-mueller-
against-investigating-his-familys-finances-beyond

You've got it right second. Except the part about the military being willing to lock Mueller up. That will never happen. We're not all citizens of Russia yet.

T

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 2:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki
Do you even remember the excuse given for investigating Trump? It has nothing to do with "financial crimes".

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
I remember the accusations that Trump was a crook because he kept his tax returns secret, despite promising many times to make them public after the imaginary audit that had already completed.
Do you even remember the excuse given for investigating Trump? It has nothing to do with "financial crimes".

I'm repeating the question, because - as usual - you failed to answer it.

You being stupid or deceptive still brings us to the same conclusion. You won't be factual. Mueller needs to know if Trump has financial ties to Russia. Mueller needs to know this because if Trump does, he may be susceptible to manipulation by Putin. Especially if those financial transactions were illegal. Trump being president makes it imperative we know.

Not surprised kiki, your less than high functioning mind, can't figure things like this out. Glad to be of help.

T

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 2:27 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

You've got it right second. Except the part about the military being willing to lock Mueller up. That will never happen. We're not all citizens of Russia yet.

We will get a test of your notion. The Pentagon might disappoint you. In a few years, after all the shouting has died down, we will read the books about how close particular Generals came, before other Generals argued them out of it, to making us all citizens of an authoritarian state.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 2:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

You've got it right second. Except the part about the military being willing to lock Mueller up. That will never happen. We're not all citizens of Russia yet.
We will get a test of your notion. The Pentagon might disappoint you. In a few years, after all the shouting has died down, we will read the books about how close particular Generals came, before other Generals argued them out of it, to making us all citizens of an authoritarian state.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]

For a soldier to even consider this is treasonous. No second, only the radicals would consider doing this. While they exist everywhere, not in the numbers needed in our military for something like this to happen.

T

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 2:35 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3726381/Robert-Mueller-Spec
ial-Counsel-Russia.pdf

ORDER NO. 3915-2017

APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COUNSEL TO INVESTIGATE RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE WITH THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND RELATED MATTERS

By virtue of the authority vested in me as Acting Attorney General, including 28 U.S.C. §§ 509,510, and 515, in order to discharge my responsibility to provide supervision and management of the Department of Justice, and to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the Russian government’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election, I hereby order as follows:

(a) Robert S. Mueller III is appointed to serve as Special Counsel for the United States Department of Justice.

(b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James B. Comey in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).

(c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters.

(d) Sections 600.4 through 600.10 of Title 28 of the Code of Federal Regulations are applicable to the Special Counsel.

Rod J Rosenstein
Acting Attorney General

Date 5/17/17

Not seeing financial crimes in there.

So, apparently, you DID forget the original reason to investigate Trump - the non-crime of 'collusion' with Russia.

How's that whole 'collusion' thing going? Found any 'collusion' yet?

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 2:43 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

For a soldier to even consider this is treasonous. No second, only the radicals would consider doing this. While they exist everywhere, not in the numbers needed in our military for something like this to happen.

You should listen to how retired officers talk with each other. It would scare you how much they hold civilians, especially Democrats, in contempt. The Republic will be saved by the mistake Trump makes of asking the Pentagon for personal protection of the Trump family from law enforcement, when he should have asked, if he was clever and clear thinking, for the Pentagon to save American Freedom.
https://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/23/is-a-culture-war-between-
american-soldiers-and-civilians-inevitable/

Robert E Lee swore to protect the US. Then he joined the Confederacy and made war on the US. Here in Baytown Texas, there is a Lee High School and a Lee College. Lee is esteemed by Texans. They don't look upon him as a traitor. There are many Republican military officers from Texas and when a Republican is President, their oath to protect the US is identical to protecting the GOP. When a Democrat is President, they are still protecting the GOP, but they might very well join a Confederacy, as did Robert E Lee, if the President is an Obama-type, born in Kenya, a guy they didn't vote for. Since Robert E Lee didn't vote for Abraham Lincoln, Lee didn't commit treason in the eyes of modern day Texas Republicans, whose moral outrage depends on the political party involved.

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 2:46 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, apparently, you DID forget the original reason to investigate Trump - the non-crime of 'collusion' with Russia.

How's that whole 'collusion' thing going? Found any 'collusion' yet?

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 2:51 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Not seeing financial crimes in there.

So, apparently, you DID forget the original reason to investigate Trump - the non-crime of 'collusion' with Russia.

How's that whole 'collusion' thing going? Found any 'collusion' yet?

You did not take my suggestion to hire an attorney, did you? But line (c) covers any crime that Mueller finds, even ones Trump does not want prosecuted: "If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters."

If you recall, Paul Manafort was indicted by Mueller for money laundering. You won't find the word launder anywhere in the order naming Mueller as Special Counsel. The laundering happened years before Trump started his campaign.

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 2:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Not seeing financial crimes in there.

So, apparently, you DID forget the original reason to investigate Trump - the non-crime of 'collusion' with Russia.

How's that whole 'collusion' thing going? Found any 'collusion' yet?
You did not take my suggestion to hire an attorney, did you? But line (c) covers any crime that Mueller finds, even ones Trump does not want prosecuted: "If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters."

If you recall, Paul Manafort was indicted for money laundering. You won't find the word launder anywhere in the order naming Mueller as Special Counsel. The laundering happened years before Trump started his campaign.

I'm enjoying watching you dismantle 1kiki's argument. I would add the word conspiracy is the term 1kiki is looking for not collusion. Trump and his cronies are the only ones using the term collusion. Trump is not being investigated for collusion. He is being investigated for conspiracy, amongst other things.

T

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 3:12 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

I'm enjoying watching you dismantle 1kiki's argument. I would add the word conspiracy is the term 1kiki is looking for not collusion. Trump and his cronies are the only ones using the term collusion. Trump is not being investigated for collusion. He is being investigated for conspiracy, amongst other things.

It will be hard for Mueller to prove "collusion" with Russia, unless Putin volunteers to testify under oath before an American Grand Jury to collusion. Anything less than Putin is hearsay or complicated reasoning that the jury has trouble understanding from bits of evidence.

If Putin did volunteer to testify, I think Trump would not approve a visa for Putin to enter the US.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 3:24 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Anything less than Putin is hearsay or complicated reasoning that the jury has trouble understanding from bits of evidence.

What evidence?

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 3:30 PM

25 new posts in half a day? Is Signym back?

And, uh, is this the Collusion thread? The Memo thread? The "evidence" thread? The No Evidence Found thread?
What trolls keep hijacking threads to spew their delusional contagion among rational discussion?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 3:34 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Anything less than Putin is hearsay or complicated reasoning that the jury has trouble understanding from bits of evidence.
What evidence?

Ask Mueller for the details:

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 3:43 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

But back AGAIN to the sotu. When you cut out the bombast, the self-promotion, the pandering, the formulaic cheerleading, you end up with the summary below. In it are PAST CLAIMS, and FUTURE PROJECTIONS AND DIRECTIONS.

Quote:

PAST CLAIMS
2.4 million new jobs, including 200,000 new jobs in manufacturing
rising wages
Unemployment claims have hit a 45-year low. African-American unemployment stands at the lowest rate ever recorded, and Hispanic American unemployment has also reached the lowest levels in history.
Small business confidence is at an all-time high
The stock market has smashed one record after another, gaining $8 trillion in value
We repealed the individual mandate
We slashed the business tax rate from 35 percent all the way down to 21 percent
Small businesses can now deduct 20 percent of their business income
a new Supreme Court Justice
more circuit court judges than any new administration in the history of our country
historic actions to protect religious liberty
landmark VA Accountability Act
we have eliminated more regulations in our first year than any administration in history
We have ended the war on American Energy
We are now an exporter of energy to the world
last year the FDA approved more new and generic drugs and medical devices than ever before in our history
reversed decades of unfair trade deals
coalition to defeat ISIS has liberated almost 100 percent of the territory
recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel

With very few exceptions, most of these claims need significant fact-checking. And that is one of the things that struck me about these claims: most weren't, or were only briefly, in the news. These are all significant items - things we need to know to understand which way our country is going.

As a specific example, let's look at the very first claim - 2.4 million new jobs, with 200,000 manufacturing jobs.

During the Obama administration, all new jobs were service jobs, part-time jobs, temp jobs, and 'gig' jobs. The economy lost overall 300,00 manufacturing jobs. And during the Obama administration, real wages continued to fall.

That background would make Trump's claims remarkable. But are they true? Given how much (none) coverage given to this topic by the MSM over the last year - we'll just have to guess.

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 3:50 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND:
many unsupported, or discounted, claims

Apparently, SECOND, you are under some kind of delusion that just because someone claims something, it counts as evidence.

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 3:59 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
With very few exceptions, most of these claims need significant fact-checking. And that is one of the things that struck me about these claims: most weren't, or were only briefly, in the news. These are all significant items - things we need to know to understand which way our country is going.

As a specific example, let's look at the very first claim - 2.4 million new jobs, with 200,000 manufacturing jobs.

During the Obama administration, all new jobs were service jobs, part-time jobs, temp jobs, and 'gig' jobs. The economy lost overall 300,00 manufacturing jobs. And during the Obama administration, real wages continued to fall.

That background would make Trump's claims remarkable. But are they true? Given how much (none) coverage given to this topic by the MSM over the last year - we'll just have to guess.

There is no need to guess. Look it up at: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=i747
You can download the Excel data for every month going back to 1939/01/01.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 4:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND:
many unsupported, or discounted, claims
Apparently, SECOND, you are under some kind of delusion that just because someone claims something, it counts as evidence.

I think the question here kiki, is why are you and others here so against law enforcement looking into it?

Oh yeah right. Because to you and these others it's law enforcement that's the problem. Not the Russians and Trump, the corrupt carnival barker.

T

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 6:46 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
There is no need to guess. Look it up at ...

Sadly, St Louis Fed didn't have annual data at all for 2017, and only 3 of 4 quarters for 2017.

I could, and did look it up elsewhere. BUT THAT'S NOT MY JOB. Isn't the MSM supposed to be bringing us the facts?

https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/employment-levels-by-i
ndustry.htm

Manufacturing Jan 2017, thousands (12,369)

Manufacturing Jan 2018, thousands (12,555)

Manufacturing net diff, thousands ( + 186)

Not quite 200,000. Also, about on par with the previous year. The Obama administration lost 2,272 (*1,000) manufacturing jobs and only VERY slowly clawed back 1,087 (*1,000). However, Trump's progress is on par with the last few years.

Technically true, but misleading.

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 6:49 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
strawman, trolling, and lies

THUGGER IS A DEEP STATE TROLL

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 7:10 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
There is no need to guess. Look it up at ...
Sadly, St Louis Fed didn't have annual data at all for 2017, and only 3 of 4 quarters for 2017.

I could, and did look it up elsewhere. BUT THAT'S NOT MY JOB. Isn't the MSM supposed to be bringing us the facts?

https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/employment-levels-by-i
ndustry.htm

Manufacturing Jan 2017, thousands (12,369)

Manufacturing Jan 2018, thousands (12,555)

Manufacturing net diff, thousands ( + 186)

Not quite 200,000. Also, about on par with the previous year. The Obama administration lost 2,272 (*1,000) manufacturing jobs and only VERY slowly clawed back 1,087 (*1,000). However, Trump's progress is on par with the last few years.

Technically true, but misleading.

"BUT THAT'S NOT MY JOB. Isn't the MSM supposed to be bringing us the facts?" Who told you that? And have you not noticed that long columns of numbers drive the readers of MSM crazy? They won't read the numbers.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=i747
This is the month-by-month employment in thousands. The numbers are not "seasonally adjusted" to smooth out the hiring for Christmas followed by the firing for New Years:

Example - On 2018-01-01 there were
145,473,000 total nonfarm Employees
22,181,000 Government Employees
12,459,000 Manufacturing Employees

The columns are
All Employees: Total Nonfarm Payrolls
All Employees: Government
All Employees: Manufacturing

2005-07-01 134011 20650 14250
2005-08-01 134261 20682 14288
2005-09-01 134889 21707 14234
2005-10-01 135617 22183 14224
2005-11-01 136174 22334 14218
2005-12-01 135973 22225 14222
2006-01-01 133320 21727 14093
2006-02-01 134245 22194 14104
2006-03-01 135226 22307 14141
2006-04-01 136140 22315 14172
2006-05-01 136946 22306 14187
2006-06-01 137449 21875 14303
2006-07-01 136273 20779 14215
2006-08-01 136479 20827 14246
2006-09-01 137149 21919 14192
2006-10-01 137849 22424 14114
2006-11-01 138234 22558 14060
2006-12-01 138124 22454 14036
2007-01-01 135334 21974 13898
2007-02-01 136026 22445 13886
2007-03-01 136923 22550 13887
2007-04-01 137730 22568 13875
2007-05-01 138673 22585 13901
2007-06-01 139175 22176 13987
2007-07-01 137778 20963 13919
2007-08-01 137890 21077 13927
2007-09-01 138455 22086 13886
2007-10-01 139198 22657 13812
2007-11-01 139510 22799 13795
2007-12-01 139297 22738 13776
2008-01-01 136268 22250 13619
2008-02-01 136787 22736 13578
2008-03-01 137378 22840 13559
2008-04-01 137914 22849 13516
2008-05-01 138488 22881 13530
2008-06-01 138682 22497 13580
2008-07-01 137203 21346 13472
2008-08-01 137094 21436 13459
2008-09-01 137148 22373 13376
2008-10-01 137442 22937 13214
2008-11-01 136761 23051 13085
2008-12-01 135732 22917 12883
2009-01-01 132042 22471 12450
2009-02-01 131808 22870 12266
2009-03-01 131675 22960 12112
2009-04-01 131859 23094 11957
2009-05-01 132132 23025 11829
2009-06-01 131950 22564 11791
2009-07-01 130353 21280 11704
2009-08-01 130231 21349 11722
2009-09-01 130589 22291 11685
2009-10-01 131188 22905 11607
2009-11-01 131236 23007 11550
2009-12-01 130690 22840 11494
2010-01-01 127820 22376 11357
2010-02-01 128255 22765 11340
2010-03-01 129089 22913 11367
2010-04-01 130212 22992 11425
2010-05-01 131330 23399 11499
2010-06-01 131448 22738 11613
2010-07-01 130111 21327 11614
2010-08-01 130175 21239 11651
2010-09-01 130669 22101 11638
2010-10-01 131641 22657 11619
2010-11-01 131947 22767 11610
2010-12-01 131641 22607 11604
2011-01-01 128778 22128 11524
2011-02-01 129592 22505 11542
2011-03-01 130499 22595 11588
2011-04-01 131715 22617 11640
2011-05-01 132399 22525 11690
2011-06-01 132889 22094 11801
2011-07-01 131615 20767 11813
2011-08-01 131890 20868 11863
2011-09-01 132636 21848 11840
2011-10-01 133558 22359 11826
2011-11-01 133893 22441 11790
2011-12-01 133718 22290 11800
2012-01-01 131113 21810 11735
2012-02-01 132067 22271 11751
2012-03-01 132971 22348 11822
2012-04-01 133854 22349 11852
2012-05-01 134667 22300 11913
2012-06-01 135005 21850 12024
2012-07-01 133795 20624 12037
2012-08-01 134175 20830 12058
2012-09-01 134802 21798 12023
2012-10-01 135649 22258 11994
2012-11-01 136039 22358 11954
2012-12-01 135964 22245 11958
2013-01-01 133081 21732 11880
2013-02-01 134120 22217 11901
2013-03-01 134918 22273 11935
2013-04-01 135923 22290 11945
2013-05-01 136816 22242 11995
2013-06-01 137226 21785 12086
2013-07-01 136052 20524 12054
2013-08-01 136488 20753 12107
2013-09-01 137096 21728 12091
2013-10-01 138019 22193 12080
2013-11-01 138543 22314 12080
2013-12-01 138292 22179 12084
2014-01-01 135488 21679 11987
2014-02-01 136229 22110 12019
2014-03-01 137187 22225 12061
2014-04-01 138325 22274 12079
2014-05-01 139237 22227 12139
2014-06-01 139824 21837 12254
2014-07-01 138745 20590 12259
2014-08-01 139125 20794 12296
2014-09-01 139812 21810 12276
2014-10-01 140866 22307 12274
2014-11-01 141331 22421 12283
2014-12-01 141326 22307 12294
2015-01-01 138511 21823 12203
2015-02-01 139343 22259 12219
2015-03-01 140099 22348 12254
2015-04-01 141283 22409 12267
2015-05-01 142224 22365 12319
2015-06-01 142700 21949 12423
2015-07-01 141747 20784 12426
2015-08-01 141939 20973 12434
2015-09-01 142497 21973 12395
2015-10-01 143645 22446 12374
2015-11-01 144066 22557 12355
2015-12-01 144063 22460 12368
2016-01-01 141088 21980 12293
2016-02-01 141919 22413 12290
2016-03-01 142814 22552 12288
2016-04-01 143909 22579 12300
2016-05-01 144557 22540 12316
2016-06-01 145222 22106 12440
2016-07-01 144248 21000 12444
2016-08-01 144502 21203 12438
2016-09-01 145168 22239 12383
2016-10-01 146049 22658 12358
2016-11-01 146482 22780 12338
2016-12-01 146270 22639 12354
2017-01-01 143393 22171 12277
2017-02-01 144423 22625 12315
2017-03-01 145078 22693 12340
2017-04-01 146101 22713 12349
2017-05-01 146937 22650 12389
2017-06-01 147578 22238 12508
2017-07-01 146486 21047 12498
2017-08-01 146801 21273 12555
2017-09-01 147177 22273 12509
2017-10-01 148203 22687 12509
2017-11-01 148783 22813 12522
2017-12-01 148558 22673 12545
2018-01-01 145473 22181 12459

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=i747
Units: Thousands of Persons, Not Seasonally Adjusted

Frequency: Monthly

All Employees: Total Nonfarm, commonly known as Total Nonfarm Payroll, is a measure of the number of U.S. workers in the economy that excludes proprietors, private household employees, unpaid volunteers, farm employees, and the unincorporated self-employed. This measure accounts for approximately 80 percent of the workers who contribute to Gross Domestic Product (GDP). This measure provides useful insights into the current economic situation because it can represent the number of jobs added or lost in an economy. Increases in employment might indicate that businesses are hiring which might also suggest that businesses are growing. Additionally, those who are newly employed have increased their personal incomes, which means (all else constant) their disposable incomes have also increased, thus fostering further economic expansion. Generally, the U.S. labor force and levels of employment and unemployment are subject to fluctuations due to seasonal changes in weather, major holidays, and the opening and closing of schools. The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) adjusts the data to offset the seasonal effects to show non-seasonal changes: for example, women's participation in the labor force; or a general decline in the number of employees, a possible indication of a downturn in the economy. To closely examine seasonal and non-seasonal changes, the BLS releases two monthly statistical measures: the seasonally adjusted All Employees: Total Nonfarm (PAYEMS) and All Employees: Total Nonfarm (PAYNSA), which is not seasonally adjusted.

The series comes from the 'Current Employment Statistics (Establishment Survey).'

The source code is: CEU0000000001
Suggested Citation:

U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, All Employees: Total Nonfarm Payrolls [PAYNSA], retrieved from FRED, Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis; https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PAYNSA, February 4, 2018.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 7:56 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Who told me the MSM is supposed to bring facts?

It's in the name: NEWS.

Also, apparently, somewhere between the BLS and the St. Louis Fed, they bobble a few thousand people. Since the BLS is the original source, I'm going with the BLS link.

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 8:01 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

But, to get back again to the sotu. The PAST CLAIMS were woefully underreported in the NEWS, leaving large question marks over most of them, and a big fact-checking job for somebody. That leaves FUTURE PROJECTIONS AND DIRECTIONS to consider.

FUTURE PROJECTIONS AND DIRECTIONS

biggest tax cuts and reforms in American history provide tremendous relief for the middle class and small businesses, A typical family of four making $75,000 will see their tax bill reduced by $2,000 -- slashing their tax bill in half.
Apple has just announced it plans to invest a total of $350 billion in America, and hire another 20,000 workers
we are appointing judges who will interpret the Constitution as written
I call on the Congress to empower every Cabinet Secretary with the authority to reward good workers -- and to remove Federal employees who undermine the public trust or fail the American people
Many car companies are now building and expanding plants in the United States
patients with terminal conditions should have the "right to try"
priorities is to reduce the price of prescription drugs
rebuild our crumbling infrastructure $1.5 trillion for the new infrastructure investment
streamline the permitting and approval process
great vocational schools
paid family leave
reforming our prisons to help former inmates who have served their time get a second chance
calling on the Congress to finally close the deadly loopholes that have allowed MS-13, and other criminals, to break into our country
proposed new legislation that will fix our immigration laws, and support our ICE and Border Patrol Agents
bipartisan approach to immigration reform, path to citizenship for 1.8 million illegal immigrants who were brought here by their parents at a young age, fully secures the border, ends the visa lottery, ending chain migration
helping get drug treatment for addicts
fully fund our great military
modernize and rebuild our nuclear arsenal
directing Secretary Mattis to reexamine our military detention policy and to keep open the detention facilities at Guantánamo Bay
asking the Congress to ensure that, in the fight against ISIS and al-Qa'ida, we continue to have all necessary power to detain terrorists -- wherever we chase them down
America stands with the people of Iran
asking the Congress to address the fundamental flaws in the terrible Iran nuclear deal
tough sanctions on the communist and socialist dictatorships in Cuba and Venezuela
We are waging a campaign of maximum pressure on North Korea to prevent nuclear capability

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 8:05 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Bolton didn't let NK skate, as per Dem modus operandi , so yeah, it's HIS fault ?

Utter and complete nonsense.

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 10:10 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Bolton didn't let NK skate, as per Dem modus operandi , so yeah, it's HIS fault ?

Utter and complete nonsense.

You are overlooking that the two nuclear power plants that S Korea was building with U.S. money for N Korea would make perfect bargaining chips with N Korea, chips that Trump could cash in today against Kim.

When Bush arrived in 2001, he did not want to pay for those power plants. Bolton did the dirty work to get them canceled.

If the plants had been actually finished and started generating, N Korea would have gotten dependent on the electricity from those plants. Those plants make excellent hostages to force Kim to live up to his nuclear agreements.

The first thing the U.S. could do is cut the power lines out of those plants. If that wasn't enough to convince Kim to continue following the agreement, then blow up the transformers. Those things take a year to build new ones and install.

If Kim gets more obstinate, blow up a steam turbine building. All this stuff is right on the coast and completely defenseless against the U.S. Navy. It would seem very fair and square to Kim if the U.S. destroys what it paid for and S Korea built. N Korea would be only sadder and wiser.

But if Trump blows up stuff N Korea paid for and N Korea built, Kim will justifiably attack S Korea and destroy property worth 1,000 times more than those power plants the U.S. paid for. This is the bad negotiating position Bush left Trump at.

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND:
The "Deep State" complained about by Trump and his White House and Congressional Republicans are the long term employees who investigate financial crimes, the same people who are investigating Trump.
Do you even remember the excuse given for investigating Trump? It has nothing to do with "financial crimes".

Unrelated non-answer #1:
Quote:
I remember the accusations that Trump was a crook because he kept his tax returns secret, despite promising many times to make them public after the imaginary audit that had already completed.
Unrelated non-answer #2:
Quote:
And I remember accusations of Trump being a crook when he did not place his businesses into an actual blind trust, rather than the fake trust where he gave his sons the power to sign business contracts that Trump normally signs. I remember.
Unrelated non-answer #3:
Quote:

I also remember Trump saying that anybody investigating the Trump family businesses has crossed a line. He'd fire them, which makes me not think he has no crimes to hide.
Unrelated non-answer #4:
Quote:
The Pentagon would probably lockup Mueller in Guantanamo if Trump asked in the right way: that it must be done to protect American Freedom.
And polished off with an unrelated non-answer link:

Quote:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/342845-trump-warns-mueller-
against-investigating-his-familys-finances-beyond

Apparently the answer is "No, second cannot remember" but a concise coherent answer would not adequately provide diversions, deflections, red herrings, and links to other unrelated topics.

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:09 PM

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:22 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Apparently the answer is "No, second cannot remember" but a concise coherent answer would not adequately provide diversions, deflections, red herrings, and links to other unrelated topics.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller can investigate anything that Acting Attorney General Rod Rosenstein will allow. Mueller and Rosenstein do not follow the orders given by JewelStaiteFan or Donald J Trump about what is a crime and what shall be investigated.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3726381/Robert-Mueller-Spec
ial-Counsel-Russia.pdf

Neither JewelStaiteFan nor Trump are lawyers. JewelStaiteFan and Trump might be criminals. Prosecutors do not take advice from criminals and non-lawyers about what is lawful.

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Monday, February 5, 2018 12:25 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
JewelStaiteFan and Trump might be criminals. Prosecutors do not take advice from criminals and non-lawyers about what is lawful.

Second might be an axe murderer who's taxidermyed Texas Republican mom yells at him from her rocking chair to get his ass out of the basement and take out the gorram trash.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 5, 2018 10:31 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
JewelStaiteFan and Trump might be criminals. Prosecutors do not take advice from criminals and non-lawyers about what is lawful.

Second might be an axe murderer who's taxidermyed Texas Republican mom yells at him from her rocking chair to get his ass out of the basement and take out the gorram trash.

Real cute, 6ix, but the point was that Special Counsel Robert Mueller and Acting Attorney General Rod Rosenstein decide what will be investigated. No prosecutor anywhere in the US allows the person being investigated, Trump in this case, to give the prosecutor directions on what can and cannot be prosecuted. 6ixStringJack knows this, I believe. Maybe Trump knows this or somebody could remind him.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 5, 2018 10:57 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Well yeah, I know that. Although I'm not sure how true that is in the case of the President. Especially since, as you always point out, the Republicans are running everything right now and checks and balances aren't ideal ATM.

I think I've said on numerous occasions that I want the investigation to be done. It's just a shame we have to hear speculation about it from people who don't know anything every single day of our lives in the mean time.

Assuming it goes to trial at this point, how do you think you could ever get anything close to resembling an impartial jury? Maybe Klingons will finally make their presence known, or we will finally create AI sophisticated enough for the task?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 5, 2018 2:58 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Well yeah, I know that. Although I'm not sure how true that is in the case of the President. Especially since, as you always point out, the Republicans are running everything right now and checks and balances aren't ideal ATM.

I think I've said on numerous occasions that I want the investigation to be done. It's just a shame we have to hear speculation about it from people who don't know anything every single day of our lives in the mean time.

Assuming it goes to trial at this point, how do you think you could ever get anything close to resembling an impartial jury? Maybe Klingons will finally make their presence known, or we will finally create AI sophisticated enough for the task?

I don't know any Republican in Texas who wants Mueller to proceed. They want the Special Counsel to stop work immediately. There will not be a trial. What will happen is that the voting population will shift one or two percent depending on what becomes public knowledge about the investigation. That slight shift will either give Democrats a slim majority in the Senate or Trump will be reelected for another 4 years.

For all I know, Trump never laundered money for Russian mobsters investing in real estate and Trump never cheated on his taxes and his soul is pure and without sin. But I know for sure that Trump acts like a guilty man every time he says anything about Mueller's investigation. He protests too much his innocence being tarnished by an unfair Mueller.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 5, 2018 9:01 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Well yeah, I know that. Although I'm not sure how true that is in the case of the President. Especially since, as you always point out, the Republicans are running everything right now and checks and balances aren't ideal ATM.

I think I've said on numerous occasions that I want the investigation to be done. It's just a shame we have to hear speculation about it from people who don't know anything every single day of our lives in the mean time.

Assuming it goes to trial at this point, how do you think you could ever get anything close to resembling an impartial jury? Maybe Klingons will finally make their presence known, or we will finally create AI sophisticated enough for the task?
I don't know any Republican in Texas who wants Mueller to proceed. They want the Special Counsel to stop work immediately. There will not be a trial. What will happen is that the voting population will shift one or two percent depending on what becomes public knowledge about the investigation. That slight shift will either give Democrats a slim majority in the Senate or Trump will be reelected for another 4 years.

For all I know, Trump never laundered money for Russian mobsters investing in real estate and Trump never cheated on his taxes and his soul is pure and without sin. But I know for sure that Trump acts like a guilty man every time he says anything about Mueller's investigation. He protests too much his innocence being tarnished by an unfair Mueller.

Well... I want the investigation to be seen through. I guess that's just another reason why I'm not part of the GOP.

The only thing I could do without is the 24 Hour News Network cheerleading section and all the mindless proles who parrot out the MSM bullshit in the meantime. It's literally been going on every single day now since November 9th, 2016. It's gross.

I also agree that he comes off as a guilty man for a lot of his actions, and I've said as much before. I, however, don't think he's a stupid man, or surrounded by stupid people. That's a mistake that Democrats make every time.

I dunno. He said he was going to drain the swamp. There have been a lot of high ranking officials that have either been fired or quit since he's been in. I'm not going to say one way or another how I think any of that is going to play out in the end because I can only speculate at this point. I did say maybe half a year ago in here though that he might be playing everybody for a fool right now.

Too early to tell. Would be nice if these government types would do their job. If they worked in the public sector, they would have all been 6 Sigma'd out of a job years ago for low performance.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, February 6, 2018 1:30 AM