REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Civility

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 21:56
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Friday, June 29, 2018 2:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I heard a show on NPR about civility. One of the participants was talking about how Trump supporters are racist, and that the only way to confront them and "make progress" is to be uncivil. What I heard as a constant subtext was win at all costs. Another participant who is an AIDS activist, who could never agree to participate in the ACT UP confrontations - but who nonetheless understood what they were trying to do - disagreed with the first participant. He kept saying that the current incivility (by liberals) seems to be purposeless.

I think was he was driving at was that the ACT UP confrontations were targeted and had specific goals in mind, whereas the personal incivility advocated by the first participant merely hardened positions and made thing worse.

I agree with him. When someone is driven out of a restaurant, what has that crowd/ mob accomplished? Will that person change their POV? Doubtful.

It's as RF said: no matter HOW civil you are, you will not convince anyone to be vegan. OTOH, the other side of the coin is: No matter how UNcivil you are, you will never convince anyone to give up meat. In fact, you will probably only harden them in their POV.

******

I have, at times, expressed the same thought as participant No 1. I know of several very large, peaceful demonstrations of somewhere in the realm of a million people (the 1976 pre-ERA demonstration in Washington was one such) that made absolutely no difference at all. Sometimes, it seemed to me, that you just gotta pick up some rocks to put pressure on the power structure.

On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. What does the aggressor hope to accomplish, other than getting a "lift" by expressing their own anger? Does it change anyone's POV ... except to the negative? Does it do anything to future encounters other than fuel future violence? When it's just a case of people talking to people, hurling insults may feel good temporarily but it doesn't really create progress, all it creates is division.

Now, I personally believe that we Americans face far larger problems than the ones that we're distracted by, and that being divided amongst ourselves is a fools' game.

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Friday, June 29, 2018 3:53 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I heard a show on NPR about civility. One of the participants was talking about how Trump supporters are racist, and that the only way to confront them and "make progress" is to be uncivil. What I heard as a constant subtext was win at all costs. Another participant who is an AIDS activist, who could never agree to participate in the ACT UP confrontations - but who nonetheless understood what they were trying to do - disagreed with the first participant. He kept saying that the current incivility (by liberals) seems to be purposeless.

I think was he was driving at was that the ACT UP confrontations were targeted and had specific goals in mind, whereas the personal incivility advocated by the first participant merely hardened positions and made thing worse.

I agree with him. When someone is driven out of a restaurant, what has that crowd/ mob accomplished? Will that person change their POV? Doubtful.

It's as RF said: no matter HOW civil you are, you will not convince anyone to be vegan. OTOH, the other side of the coin is: No matter how UNcivil you are, you will never convince anyone to give up meat. In fact, you will probably only harden them in their POV.

******

I have, at times, expressed the same thought as participant No 1. I know of several very large, peaceful demonstrations of somewhere in the realm of a million people (the 1976 pre-ERA demonstration in Washington was one such) that made absolutely no difference at all. Sometimes, it seemed to me, that you just gotta pick up some rocks to put pressure on the power structure.

On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. What does the aggressor hope to accomplish, other than getting a "lift" by expressing their own anger? Does it change anyone's POV ... except to the negative? Does it do anything to future encounters other than fuel future violence? When it's just a case of people talking to people, hurling insults may feel good temporarily but it doesn't really create progress, all it creates is division.

Now, I personally believe that we Americans face far larger problems than the ones that we're distracted by, and that being divided amongst ourselves is a fools' game.

How do you imagine ACT UP was any different, in real terms - as opposed to different slogans. Weren't they really just as pointless as today, and equally ineffective?
I'm sure NPR spun their standard narrative, but I mean in Real World terms.

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Friday, June 29, 2018 8:19 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I think "How to Win Friends and Influence People" should be required reading for every kid in high school.

Quote:

Criticism is futile because it puts a person on the defensive and usually makes them strive to justify themselves. ~Dale Carnagie




Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, June 29, 2018 8:58 AM

REAVERFAN


Why are Blumpists so violent?

Man yells, "Make America Great Again!" Before shooting 6 people dead.

Man wearing, "Make America Great Again" hat murders 2 strangers for no reason.

A Trump supporter murders 2 police officers because they told him he couldn't wave a Confederate flag at a high school football game.

Two men beat a homeless man with a metal bar and urinate on him screaming, “Donald Trump was right, all these illegals need to be deported,” When asked for a comment about the incident Trump defends them saying, "My supporters are very passionate. They love this country and they want this country to be great again."

Trump supporter attacks a Hispanic man and a Muslim student at a gas station while yelling, "Trump! Trump! Trump!"

Trump supporter stabs a black man unprovoked because he was holding hands with a white woman, tells police they need to release him so he can attend a Trump rally that night.

Trump supporter attacks Muslim woman at airport.

A Trump supporter punches a 70 year old protester in the face.

Trump supporter arrested for brutally beating protester.

3 Trump supporters arrested planning terrorist attack to kill Muslims.

Trump supporter confuses an Indian man for a Muslim at restaurant and says, "Things are different now, I don't want you sand n*ggers sitting next to me." Before attacking the man.

"We got a new President you fucking f*ggots." Men yell as they attack gay man.

Trump supporters track down and brutally beat an artist because she made a painting of Trump with a small penis.

Trump supporter who sucker punched protester: “Next time, we might have to kill them.”

Trump is asked to comment on his supporters brutally beating a black man, he responds with, “He was obnoxious! Maybe he should have been roughed up,”

"You fucking gorillas and baby monkeys, We voted for Trump. Trump's building a wall, beaners, and you'll be going back to where you belong." Man yells at black elementary school children unprovoked before he swerves his car at them attempting to hit them.

Trump supporter assaults woman at rally and then says he wouldn't of done it if Trump didn't inspire him to attack her.

Trump supporter recognizes famous anti-Trump playwright, walks up to him in a restaurant and says, “Sieg Heil! Fuck you, you Jew cunts, we’re gonna kill all of you." before attacking him.

Trump supporters beat black man so badly he’s hospitalized for concussion and call him the n-word.

Trump supporter pepper sprays a 15-year-old girl point-blank in the face after another Trump supporter groped her breasts, shouting “n*gger lover” as she attempted to run away.

Trump supporter walks up to a black man in the middle of a downtown area and says, "Donald Trump will deport you." Before punching the black man.

“Trump is going to win and if you don’t like it I’m going to beat your ass,” Trump supporter yells at random black woman outside of convenient store.

Man attacks and kicks Muslim airport employee shouting, "Trump is here now, he will get rid of all of you."

In 8 months Trump supporters attacked protesters at 20 different rallies.

Trump supporter tracks down a local Latino Democratic political candidate and tries to run him and his elderly mother over with a car. (The Latino candidate is also a former marine.)

"This is for Donald Trump!" man yells as he runs up a Latino person and punches them in the head.

Trump supporter goes to Hillary Clinton rally to disrupt the event, ends up punching someone when asked to leave.

Trump supporter punches, chokes and slaps protesters on video during rally.

An angry mob of Trump supporters brutally beat and grab a mans genitals because he held up a, "Republicans Against Trump" sign.

A Trump supporter yells, "Get your black kids out of here. Do you even have a job? Do you know what a job is, n*gger?" Before physically attacking a black man who had come to the hospital to get help for his sick 2 week old daughter.

Local Republican Politician sexually assaults a woman by, "grabbing her pussy." and then says he is allowed to do it because now that Trump is president he doesn't have to be politically correct.

Canadian man who was a vocal Trump supporter both online and in person goes into a mosque and murders 6 people.

Trump supporter physically assaults Comedian on stage for making Anti-Trump Joke.

Man yells, "Trump" while beating African immigrant cab driver.

A Trump supporter is arrested for burning a Mosque down.

A Trump supporter sees a car has pro-gay bumper stickers on it and then follows the car, waiting for the 75 year old driver to get out before brutally attacking him while screaming, "My new president says we can kill all you f*ggots now."

A Trump supporter is arrested after brutally attacking gay men outside a McDonald’s. Witnesses describe the aftermath as, "There was blood everywhere."

A Muslim refugee gay rights activist is kidnapped and raped by two men in retaliation for, "Trump being mocked."

A Trump supporter is arrested on terrorism charges for building bombs he was going to use to kill Muslims.

Person spray-paints a transgender veterans car with the word "Trump" then sets it on fire.

A Trump supporter attacks two Muslim women and tries to push over a stroller with a baby in it while screaming, "Get the fuck out of America"

2 Trump supporters write on Facebook that they can't wait to crack liberals skulls when they go to Milo event. They show up to the event in MAGA hats drunk and walk up to a crowd of people and spray them with tear gas, when one man tries to intervene they shoot him in the stomach.

A Trump supporter tells a random Muslim woman he sees on the street, "I'm voting for Trump because he said he would send all of you terrorists out of this country.” Before attacking her.

Man shoots out the windows of two businesses from a car while shouting, "Hail Trump."

A Trump supporter storms into building on college campus, asks random students if they are liberals, when they say yes he pulls out a machete and attacks them.

From November 9 to December 12, 2016. Trump supporters who mentioned Trump by name during their attacks committed 418 reported hate crimes, in that same time period only 24 hate crimes were perpetrated against Trump supporters.

Self proclaimed Trump fan and online alt-right fanatic, murders black Army Lieutenant in unprovoked hate crime.
https://np.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/675rlh/why_are_leftists_so_
violent
/

Don't talk to me about civility.


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Friday, June 29, 2018 8:59 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Now, I personally believe that we Americans face far larger problems than the ones that we're distracted by, and that being divided amongst ourselves is a fools' game.

Signym, sorry to piss all over your worthless argument, but there is The Case Against Civility, In Five Charts.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/27/the-case-against-civili
ty-in-five-charts/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.eab5226fe254


Chart #2 is particularly interesting because it points to an extremely unfair disadvantage for Democrats compared to Republicans. And it is built into the Constitution. There will need to be some extreme rudeness to take the unfairness back out. But you could go all the way to the Civil War for another example where the pro-slavery South believed that the North was being hideously rude about the institution of slavery. To remove the unfairness to slaves from the Constitution required extremely rude killing. Americans weren't smart about ending slavery, unlike the British, for example. The Southen Americans could have learned from the British, but the Southerners refused to give in on the point during debate that blacks are human.
Slavery Abolition Act 1833
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_Abolition_Act_1833

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. What does the aggressor hope to accomplish, other than getting a "lift" by expressing their own anger? Does it change anyone's POV ... except to the negative? Does it do anything to future encounters other than fuel future violence?

Sometimes, Signym, a slave-owner crossed a line he does not recognize or refused to even acknowledge could exist and the slave killed the owner. I know it didn't end slavery for tens of millions in the Antebellum South, but many, many slave-owners were deserving of death long before the Civil War began. Some slave-owners got what they deserved during the war. Many others did not because they survived. Just a personal opinion. Opinions differed widely before 1860 about limits on what a slave-owner rightly could do to his property. Nowadays opinions differ on what a Republican rightly can do to an alien.

Chart #2. The Senate

Similar dynamics are increasingly at play in the U.S. Senate. Each state gets two senators regardless of population. With the U.S. population becoming ever more concentrated in urban areas, residents of states with large populations have seen their clout in the Senate diminish, relative to residents of smaller states.

One way to think of this is in terms of the minimum share of the U.S. population you would need to elect a majority of seats in the U.S. Senate. As political scientists Frances E. Lee and Bruce Oppenheimer illustrate in their book “Sizing Up the Senate,” that share has been steadily declining.

In 1810, for instance, you needed well over 30 percent of the population to elect a majority of senators. Today, that share has shrunken to just 17 percent. While this is a theoretical minimum value, it serves to illustrate Lee and Oppenheimer's point: “With a few brief exceptions, the Senate has become more malapportioned, and therefore less representative, over the course of American history,” they write.

Today, California's two senators represent the same number of people as the 44 Senators from the country's 22 least-populous states. Wyoming's 579,000 mostly conservative residents effectively cancel out the Senate representation of 40 million predominantly liberal people in California. That makes it much more difficult for residents of liberal states to enact their preferred policies via the Senate.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 29, 2018 9:02 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


And on the topic of diets, nobody is going to change theirs unless they want to. If you had told me a year ago I'd be gluten free I would have laughed at you.

I've broken that diet 3 times since it has started. I've decided that if I'm out with people or somebody is cooking for me I'm not going to put any restrictions on them, since this is a lifestyle choice and it's not because I'm allergic to it (well... I've never been diagnosed with anything, but if I am it's not a life or death thing).

I can't speak for everyone, but making the change in my diet was not really that hard. It was certainly easier than giving up booze or pot, and infinitely easier than giving up coffee or cigarettes.

The pains are still there, but my job is very labor intensive and I'm not kid anymore. I've also done a lot of damage to my body over the years. I do hope that by continuing down the path I'm on that I can get rid of the pains without resorting to any drugs, even over the counter ones. The one thing positive I can say about being gluten free though is that I haven't had this much energy since I was in my early 20's. If my feet didn't hurt so much after 8 hours of work I could easily do another 4 hours of work before I went home.

I'm actually hoping I can get to that point because I'm sure there wouldn't be any arguement from management if I were to put in 12 hour days and then I could get in a 36 hour work week and still have four days off. :)

One day at a time baby.



I cannot stress enough how great a gluten free diet is. If you can will yourself to start it and stick with it for a month or two, you will be amazed at how much more energy you will have.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, June 29, 2018 11:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Now, I personally believe that we Americans face far larger problems than the ones that we're distracted by, and that being divided amongst ourselves is a fools' game. - SIGNY

Signym, sorry to piss all over your worthless argument, but there is The Case Against Civility, In Five Charts.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/27/the-case-against-civili
ty-in-five-charts/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.eab5226fe254

Your link doesn't work because I need a subscription to access the material, so if you really want a response to this material, you'll have to copy it here.

Quote:

Chart #2 is particularly interesting because it points to an extremely unfair disadvantage for Democrats compared to Republicans. And it is built into the Constitution.
There was a point being made on NPR about this, and what I heard was how the Senate gave too much representation to rural states, and "gerrymandering".

Well, as far as the first point is concerned, our government was formed the way it was formed to get the "buy-in" of the original colonies. If you want to change THAT, you will need a Constitutional Amendment. Being personally uncivil to me, SIX, KIKI, or individual Trump supporters or staff members is not going to get you very far. NOT IF YOU INTEND TO PROCEED DEMOCRATICALLY, ANYWAY.

As far as fixing "gerrymandering" ... Democrats, when they were in power, gerrymandered district lines right up there with Republicans. If you want to gerrymander the lines back in Democrat's favor, then you will have to make sure that you have control of State Legislatures in 2020, after the Census is done. That might mean... yanno... appealing to a wider set of voters, and representing EVERYBODY's interests .... farmers as well as city-dwellers, whites as well as blacks, men in addition to women, citizens but not illegal immigrants, and religious people along with agnostics. That means finding the CORE INTERESTS of what draws America together, interests that we all have IN COMMON, and NOT playing off one group against another with increasingly fragmented identity politics, or focusing on baloney like RUSSIA!!. Maybe you can start by not characterizing a large number of Americans as "deplorables"? THAT sort of incivility really doesn't work in your favor.

Quote:

There will need to be some extreme rudeness to take the unfairness back out.
I think I just pointed out how extreme rudeness doesn't work in your favor. Not if you intend to proceed democratically, anyway.

Quote:

But you could go all the way to the Civil War for another example where the pro-slavery South believed that the North was being hideously rude about the institution of slavery.
THIS from the person who castigated KIKI for going back to 1869 for a legal opinion on immigrants' rights? Dood, you invalidated anything else you might have to say on the topic if you reference anything that far back!

Quote:

On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. What does the aggressor hope to accomplish, other than getting a "lift" by expressing their own anger? Does it change anyone's POV ... except to the negative? Does it do anything to future encounters other than fuel future violence? - SIGNY
Sometimes, Signym, a slave-owner crossed a line he does not recognize or refused to even acknowledge could exist and the slave killed the owner. I know it didn't end slavery for tens of millions in the Antebellum South, but many, many slave-owners were deserving of death long before the Civil War began. Some slave-owners got what they deserved during the war. Many others did not because they survived. Just a personal opinion. Opinions differed widely before 1860 about limits on what a slave-owner rightly could do to his property. Nowadays opinions differ on what a Republican rightly can do to an alien.- SECOND

Well, like I said: IF references that far back in time are irrelevant as far as you're concerned, your argument is a moot point.


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Friday, June 29, 2018 11:27 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

And on the topic of diets, nobody is going to change theirs unless they want to. If you had told me a year ago I'd be gluten free I would have laughed at you.

I've broken that diet 3 times since it has started. I've decided that if I'm out with people or somebody is cooking for me I'm not going to put any restrictions on them, since this is a lifestyle choice and it's not because I'm allergic to it (well... I've never been diagnosed with anything, but if I am it's not a life or death thing).

I can't speak for everyone, but making the change in my diet was not really that hard. It was certainly easier than giving up booze or pot, and infinitely easier than giving up coffee or cigarettes.

The pains are still there, but my job is very labor intensive and I'm not kid anymore. I've also done a lot of damage to my body over the years.

Have you gotten that canola oil?? It's very VERY necessary in order for you body to make anti-inflammatory hormones.

Quote:

I do hope that by continuing down the path I'm on that I can get rid of the pains without resorting to any drugs, even over the counter ones. The one thing positive I can say about being gluten free though is that I haven't had this much energy since I was in my early 20's. If my feet didn't hurt so much after 8 hours of work I could easily do another 4 hours of work before I went home.
It it your heels or your whole foot? Because if just your heels, you have plantar fasciitis, and SIX, I had it... tried everything (anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen, stretching, foot soaks, RX'ed heel cups, staying off my feet) and I found a pair of $10 inserts that really worked.

Quote:

I'm actually hoping I can get to that point because I'm sure there wouldn't be any argument from management if I were to put in 12 hour days and then I could get in a 36 hour work week and still have four days off. :)

One day at a time baby. I cannot stress enough how great a gluten free diet is. If you can will yourself to start it and stick with it for a month or two, you will be amazed at how much more energy you will have.

Gluten-free here too, SIX. I was dxed with a number of food allergies (altho allergic to a crap-ton of OTHER foods not allergic to wheat, per test) and also specifically tested for gluten sensitivity (not gluten sensitive either, per test) but when I took wheat out of my diet the arthritic aches and pains almost went completely away. I sleep a zillion times better now that my shoulders and hips don't hurt. I can't explain it, but it works for me.

Quote:

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Good words to live by.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, June 29, 2018 12:14 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive.



From the person who posts graphic images of mutilated children you would be the authority of what incivility is - good one.

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Friday, June 29, 2018 12:29 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
THIS from the person who castigated KIKI for going back to 1869 for a legal opinion on immigrants' rights? Dood, you invalidated anything else you might have to say on the topic if you reference anything that far back!



Completely different argument.

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Friday, June 29, 2018 12:30 PM

JJ


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive.



From the person who posts graphic images of mutilated children you would be the authority of what incivility is - good one.



Good one G. I'd add that what you I and others do here is post reality and logic. We deal in facts. That reality, logic and facts are then rebuffed. Rebuffed by people who may actually be Flat Earthers, or at least suffer from the same affliction called an aversion to facts. A disdain for the truth. Same as Trump.

T


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Friday, June 29, 2018 1:19 PM

REAVERFAN


Yeah, the left isn't civil.

THE RIGHT WING
The United States Is Witnessing a Shocking Rise in Alt-Right Violence
A new report reveals the crisis is much bigger than Charlottesville.
https://www.alternet.org/right-wing/united-states-witnessing-shocking-
rise-alt-right-violence


Is it really all that shocking, though? Hitler had his brownshirts. Trump has the alt-right.

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Friday, June 29, 2018 1:56 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

THIS from the person who castigated KIKI for going back to 1869 for a legal opinion on immigrants' rights? Dood, you invalidated anything else you might have to say on the topic if you reference anything that far back!- SIGNY

Completely different argument. - RF

Really? How so?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, June 29, 2018 2:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. - SIGNY

From the person who posts graphic images of mutilated children you would be the authority of what incivility is - good one.- G

Good one G. I'd add that what you I and others do here is post reality ...

Except the parts you don't want to acknowledge, like the half-million or more children that we've killed in the last 30 years or so?

Posting pictures of terrible events isn't "uncivil", as far as I can tell. I wasn't being nasty to you, was I? I was bringing FACTS to the table; FACTS that we could both look at and discuss, presumably in a civil manner.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, June 29, 2018 3:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:


Yeah, the left isn't civil.

THE RIGHT WING
The United States Is Witnessing a Shocking Rise in Alt-Right Violence
A new report reveals the crisis is much bigger than Charlottesville.
https://www.alternet.org/right-wing/united-states-witnessing-shocking-
rise-alt-right-violence


Is it really all that shocking, though? Hitler had his brownshirts. Trump has the alt-right. - RF



And the so-called left has its ANTIFA, who themselves have been videoed inciting and committing violence.

Do you think that because someone has committed violence, that gives you the right to commit violence against some unrelated third party? If you're going to "do something" about alt right violence, how does driving someone from a restaurant ... or being nasty to someone online ... or calling half of your fellow citizens "deplorables" .... really help your cause? What is your target supposed to do in response to your incivility? Never go out to eat? Stop posting their opinion? How does that further your cause? Are you trying to raise people up to your level, or sink to theirs?

Hey, I'm all for self-defense. Nobody is saying "Turn the other cheek". If you see someone beating up on someone else, nail the bastard. Self-defense and the immediate defense of others is a legitimate use of violence. But if you go after some random third party because of something that happened some place else, then all you're doing is acting like a mob.

As long as the context is DISCUSSION, then incivility/ rudeness/ threat of violence really is counterproductive.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, June 29, 2018 3:38 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Now, I personally believe that we Americans face far larger problems than the ones that we're distracted by, and that being divided amongst ourselves is a fools' game. - SIGNY

Signym, sorry to piss all over your worthless argument, but there is The Case Against Civility, In Five Charts.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/27/the-case-against-civili
ty-in-five-charts/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.eab5226fe254

Your link doesn't work because I need a subscription to access the material, so if you really want a response to this material, you'll have to copy it here.

Quote:

Chart #2 is particularly interesting because it points to an extremely unfair disadvantage for Democrats compared to Republicans. And it is built into the Constitution.
There was a point being made on NPR about this, and what I heard was how the Senate gave too much representation to rural states, and "gerrymandering".

Well, as far as the first point is concerned, our government was formed the way it was formed to get the "buy-in" of the original colonies. If you want to change THAT, you will need a Constitutional Amendment. Being personally uncivil to me, SIX, KIKI, or individual Trump supporters or staff members is not going to get you very far. NOT IF YOU INTEND TO PROCEED DEMOCRATICALLY, ANYWAY.

As far as fixing "gerrymandering" ... Democrats, when they were in power, gerrymandered district lines right up there with Republicans. If you want to gerrymander the lines back in Democrat's favor, then you will have to make sure that you have control of State Legislatures in 2020, after the Census is done. That might mean... yanno... appealing to a wider set of voters, and representing EVERYBODY's interests .... farmers as well as city-dwellers, whites as well as blacks, men in addition to women, citizens but not illegal immigrants, and religious people along with agnostics. That means finding the CORE INTERESTS of what draws America together, interests that we all have IN COMMON, and NOT playing off one group against another with increasingly fragmented identity politics, or focusing on baloney like RUSSIA!!. Maybe you can start by not characterizing a large number of Americans as "deplorables"? THAT sort of incivility really doesn't work in your favor.

Quote:

There will need to be some extreme rudeness to take the unfairness back out.
I think I just pointed out how extreme rudeness doesn't work in your favor. Not if you intend to proceed democratically, anyway.

Quote:

But you could go all the way to the Civil War for another example where the pro-slavery South believed that the North was being hideously rude about the institution of slavery.
THIS from the person who castigated KIKI for going back to 1869 for a legal opinion on immigrants' rights? Dood, you invalidated anything else you might have to say on the topic if you reference anything that far back!

Quote:

On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. What does the aggressor hope to accomplish, other than getting a "lift" by expressing their own anger? Does it change anyone's POV ... except to the negative? Does it do anything to future encounters other than fuel future violence? - SIGNY
Sometimes, Signym, a slave-owner crossed a line he does not recognize or refused to even acknowledge could exist and the slave killed the owner. I know it didn't end slavery for tens of millions in the Antebellum South, but many, many slave-owners were deserving of death long before the Civil War began. Some slave-owners got what they deserved during the war. Many others did not because they survived. Just a personal opinion. Opinions differed widely before 1860 about limits on what a slave-owner rightly could do to his property. Nowadays opinions differ on what a Republican rightly can do to an alien.- SECOND

Well, like I said: IF references that far back in time are irrelevant as far as you're concerned, your argument is a moot point.


Are you saying Gerrymandering gives unfair advantage to Senators?

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Friday, June 29, 2018 3:38 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:


And the so-called left has its ANTIFA, who themselves have been videoed inciting and committing violence.


No one has ever been killed by Antifa. Ever. Reichwing terrorists murder more people than any other terrorist group in the US, including Muslims.

And every single one of them ADORES Trump. They are his brownshirts.

You lost yet another point again.

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Friday, June 29, 2018 3:44 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

And on the topic of diets, nobody is going to change theirs unless they want to. If you had told me a year ago I'd be gluten free I would have laughed at you.

I've broken that diet 3 times since it has started. I've decided that if I'm out with people or somebody is cooking for me I'm not going to put any restrictions on them, since this is a lifestyle choice and it's not because I'm allergic to it (well... I've never been diagnosed with anything, but if I am it's not a life or death thing).

I can't speak for everyone, but making the change in my diet was not really that hard. It was certainly easier than giving up booze or pot, and infinitely easier than giving up coffee or cigarettes.

The pains are still there, but my job is very labor intensive and I'm not kid anymore. I've also done a lot of damage to my body over the years.

Have you gotten that canola oil?? It's very VERY necessary in order for you body to make anti-inflammatory hormones.

Quote:

I do hope that by continuing down the path I'm on that I can get rid of the pains without resorting to any drugs, even over the counter ones. The one thing positive I can say about being gluten free though is that I haven't had this much energy since I was in my early 20's. If my feet didn't hurt so much after 8 hours of work I could easily do another 4 hours of work before I went home.
It it your heels or your whole foot? Because if just your heels, you have plantar fasciitis, and SIX, I had it... tried everything (anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen, stretching, foot soaks, RX'ed heel cups, staying off my feet) and I found a pair of $10 inserts that really worked.

Quote:

I'm actually hoping I can get to that point because I'm sure there wouldn't be any argument from management if I were to put in 12 hour days and then I could get in a 36 hour work week and still have four days off. :)

One day at a time baby. I cannot stress enough how great a gluten free diet is. If you can will yourself to start it and stick with it for a month or two, you will be amazed at how much more energy you will have.

Gluten-free here too, SIX. I was dxed with a number of food allergies (altho allergic to a crap-ton of OTHER foods not allergic to wheat, per test) and also specifically tested for gluten sensitivity (not gluten sensitive either, per test) but when I took wheat out of my diet the arthritic aches and pains almost went completely away. I sleep a zillion times better now that my shoulders and hips don't hurt. I can't explain it, but it works for me.

Quote:

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Good words to live by.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

A decade ago I started using canola oil in my cookies, and everybody has been surprised that they taste just as good as with other - no real detectable difference for us shlubs.

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Friday, June 29, 2018 4:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

No one has ever been killed by Antifa. Ever. Reichwing terrorists murder more people than any other terrorist group in the US, including Muslims.
One of the things Id like to know is whether their figures include some of the nutcases who sound like they're off their rocker; 'cause those I'd put in the "nutcase" category.

Also, don't forget that the biggest category of violent crimes are nonwhite on nonwhite. There have also been some pretty spectacular jihadist-inspired mass killings in the USA. SPLC tends to focus on only one kind of victim and one kind of crime.

Quote:

And every single one of them ADORES Trump. They are his brownshirts.
First of all, I'm not sure that this is true. Secondly, even if all violent white supremacists 'adore' Trump, that doesn't mean that all Trump supporters are violent white supremacists.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, June 29, 2018 4:17 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

No one has ever been killed by Antifa. Ever. Reichwing terrorists murder more people than any other terrorist group in the US, including Muslims.
One of the things Id like to know is whether their figures include some of the nutcases who sound like they're off their rocker; 'cause those I'd put in the "nutcase" category.

Also, don't forget that the biggest category of violent crimes are nonwhite on nonwhite. There have also been some pretty spectacular jihadist-inspired mass killings in the USA. SPLC tends to focus on only one kind of victim and one kind of crime.

Wrong again. There's crime, then there's terrorism, and nobody does more of that in the US than your Nazi heroes. Fact.

Quote:

And every single one of them ADORES Trump. They are his brownshirts. First of all, I'm not sure that this is true. Secondly, even if all violent white supremacists 'adore' Trump, that doesn't mean that all Trump supporters are violent white supremacists.
It's absolutely true. They ALL worship him. Every. Single. One. Fact.



Do Nazi salutes bother you, I wonder?


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Friday, June 29, 2018 4:25 PM

REAVERFAN


Maryland shooting: NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch said journalists 'need to be curb-stomped', in resurfaced footage
'They are the rat bastards of the earth. They are the boil on the backside of American politics,' Ms Loesch previously said
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/maryland-shooting-la
test-nra-dana-loesch-journalists-gazette-gun-control-a8422566.html?utm_source=reddit.com


Dana Loesch, calling for violence against journalists.

How civil.

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Friday, June 29, 2018 4:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I don't have to go very far to find incivility among so-called liberals:

FREM threatened violence against Trump supporters.
THUGR's [imaginary] "friend" supposedly sent my particulars to the FBI.
SECOND was calling for violence against me.
THUGR, G, WISHY, and SECOND routinely libel Kiki and me.

That's not very civil either, is it?

There are an awful lot of examples here of YOUR incivility towards other posters ... people who you never met, who you really know nothing about. Do you really think they (we/I) deserve your incivility?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, June 29, 2018 7:06 PM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:


FREM threatened violence against Trump supporters.
THUGR's [imaginary] "friend" supposedly sent my particulars to the FBI.
SECOND was calling for violence against me.
THUGR, G, WISHY, and SECOND routinely libel Kiki and me.




Hmmm. If everyone hates you, you ever think maybe there's a reason for that?? That maybe your obsession with wars that none of us could do a damn thing about is really obnoxious and over the top? That communism is a truly horrible idea and no one here wants it, yet you still push it... because like 6ix you think you are a genius? That you constantly excuse Russians for their manipulative crap, maybe because you are full of manipulative crap??

Btw, I didn't know someone actually turned you in... to that though. Seriously, nothing you talk about is in the best interest of this country. Either something is very, very, VERY wrong with you, or you are here specifically to subvert... I don't care which it is, but I think you need to seriously leave this country and go where you think it is soooo much better for your "ideals" 'cause it ain't HERE.

I think it's funny. I came here one day for idle chat and you made me be anti-communist, JSF made me become anti-Republican, and 6ix made me into a feminist. It's seeing into the depths of human obliviousness here that's made me realize what's truly important....


PS. You do know it's not illegal to be a communist in the US, right? If you are encouraging a violent overthrow of the government, yeah they can do something about that, but if you are just pushing dumb communist ideals they aren't going to do anything more than question you (AND THEY SHOULD).

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Friday, June 29, 2018 8:57 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:


FREM threatened violence against Trump supporters.
THUGR's [imaginary] "friend" supposedly sent my particulars to the FBI.
SECOND was calling for violence against me.
THUGR, G, WISHY, and SECOND routinely libel Kiki and me.




Hmmm. If everyone hates you, you ever think maybe there's a reason for that?? That maybe your obsession with wars that none of us could do a damn thing about is really obnoxious and over the top? That communism is a truly horrible idea and no one here wants it, yet you still push it... because like 6ix you think you are a genius? That you constantly excuse Russians for their manipulative crap, maybe because you are full of manipulative crap??

Btw, I didn't know someone actually turned you in... to that though. Seriously, nothing you talk about is in the best interest of this country. Either something is very, very, VERY wrong with you, or you are here specifically to subvert... I don't care which it is, but I think you need to seriously leave this country and go where you think it is soooo much better for your "ideals" 'cause it ain't HERE.

I think it's funny. I came here one day for idle chat and you made me be anti-communist, JSF made me become anti-Republican, and 6ix made me into a feminist. It's seeing into the depths of human obliviousness here that's made me realize what's truly important....


PS. You do know it's not illegal to be a communist in the US, right? If you are encouraging a violent overthrow of the government, yeah they can do something about that, but if you are just pushing dumb communist ideals they aren't going to do anything more than question you (AND THEY SHOULD).



Wow. lol

My drunken ramblings turned you into a feminist? I wasn't aware I had so much power.


I could dig up some horrible things you've said about your husband in the past. I suppose I'm to blame for your relationship problems as well then?


I'd say that I was flattered, if your entire statement here wasn't flagrant hyperbole.


I'm trying to figure out which person you would have been in high school if the internet was around back then? Would you be the one cyber bullying other kids until they killed themselves, or would you have been on this list?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicides_that_have_been_attribut
ed_to_bullying


Hard to say.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, June 29, 2018 9:00 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Hey Sigs...

Stop conversing with RF. He's an idiot.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, June 29, 2018 9:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I guess WISHY votes for "no civility" then.

Hey WISHY: FWIW I wouldn't say that all of these disparate (yes, disparate, not desperate) people "made you" into what you are today. That portrays you as a weak-minded person who doesn't have control over their own reactions.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, June 29, 2018 9:53 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Hey Sigs...

Stop conversing with RF. He's an idiot.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



I think that RF and I have a lot more in common than most people think.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, June 29, 2018 10:09 PM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Wow. lol

My drunken ramblings turned you into a feminist? I wasn't aware I had so much power.


I could dig up some horrible things you've said about your husband in the past. I suppose I'm to blame for your relationship problems as well then?


I'd say that I was flattered, if your entire statement here wasn't flagrant hyperbole.


I'm trying to figure out which person you would have been in high school if the internet was around back then? Would you be the one cyber bullying other kids until they killed themselves, or would you have been on this list?






Yep, you made me realize how some men still marginalize all women out of raging insecurity. It made me look around at all the women in my life and take stock of today and the past.

My husband knows and freely admits his faults, takes pills and therapy to become a better man. He's a thousand times a better person than you will ever be, faults and all.

Still trying to push the "evil woman" theory, huh? If I'm sooo evil, why hasn't he left? Why does my kid want to homeschool for another year? Hmmm?

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Saturday, June 30, 2018 2:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

If I'm sooo evil, why hasn't he left? Why does my kid want to homeschool for another year? Hmmm?- WISHY
Stockholm Syndrome?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, June 30, 2018 7:45 AM

REAVERFAN


Bill Deagle: Liberal Protesters Who Harass Conservatives Are ‘Going To Get Death’
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/bill-deagle-liberal-protesters-who-
harass-conservatives-are-going-to-get-death
/

“People need to start realizing they’re going to get a lot more than they bargained for if they want to harass us, supporters of Donald Trump and conservatism,” Deagle stated. “They’re not going to get just a little helter skelter and yelling, they’re going to get death.”

Deagle also issued a warning to Democratic candidates and lawmakers who are calling for the abolishment of the Department of Homeland Security’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) branch.

“We’ll ice them, how’s that?” he said. “We’ll put them on ice.”

“I’ve reached my limit now,” Deagle fumed. “They want to bring it on? You’re going to get a lot more than you bargained for, believe me. The destroyer is not the devil, it’s God and we’re his proxy. You want to bring it on? You’re going to bring on your own devastation and destruction. Don’t push it.”

Death threats from a reichwing nutjob on the air. We've seen plenty of them already. Well, he's God's proxy, so I guess that makes him civil.

Fat fuck.


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Saturday, June 30, 2018 7:56 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

If I'm sooo evil, why hasn't he left? Why does my kid want to homeschool for another year? Hmmm?- WISHY
Stockholm Syndrome?



LOL

I think that might be the single greatest post on fireflyfans.net ever.



Never said you were evil Wishy. Just that you've sadly become a hard core bitch and borderline loon.

I don't recall if you remember way back in the day when I implored you to stay out of the RWED. (Yes. I did use the word implore).

I'd like to think that it wasn't actually the RWED that turned you into the spiteful and angry person that you've become today, but maybe it is possible seeing as how you just blamed everyone on this board for it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 30, 2018 8:11 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

And on the topic of diets, nobody is going to change theirs unless they want to. If you had told me a year ago I'd be gluten free I would have laughed at you.

I've broken that diet 3 times since it has started. I've decided that if I'm out with people or somebody is cooking for me I'm not going to put any restrictions on them, since this is a lifestyle choice and it's not because I'm allergic to it (well... I've never been diagnosed with anything, but if I am it's not a life or death thing).

I can't speak for everyone, but making the change in my diet was not really that hard. It was certainly easier than giving up booze or pot, and infinitely easier than giving up coffee or cigarettes.

The pains are still there, but my job is very labor intensive and I'm not kid anymore. I've also done a lot of damage to my body over the years.

Have you gotten that canola oil?? It's very VERY necessary in order for you body to make anti-inflammatory hormones.

Quote:

I do hope that by continuing down the path I'm on that I can get rid of the pains without resorting to any drugs, even over the counter ones. The one thing positive I can say about being gluten free though is that I haven't had this much energy since I was in my early 20's. If my feet didn't hurt so much after 8 hours of work I could easily do another 4 hours of work before I went home.
It it your heels or your whole foot? Because if just your heels, you have plantar fasciitis, and SIX, I had it... tried everything (anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen, stretching, foot soaks, RX'ed heel cups, staying off my feet) and I found a pair of $10 inserts that really worked.

Quote:

I'm actually hoping I can get to that point because I'm sure there wouldn't be any argument from management if I were to put in 12 hour days and then I could get in a 36 hour work week and still have four days off. :)

One day at a time baby. I cannot stress enough how great a gluten free diet is. If you can will yourself to start it and stick with it for a month or two, you will be amazed at how much more energy you will have.

Gluten-free here too, SIX. I was dxed with a number of food allergies (altho allergic to a crap-ton of OTHER foods not allergic to wheat, per test) and also specifically tested for gluten sensitivity (not gluten sensitive either, per test) but when I took wheat out of my diet the arthritic aches and pains almost went completely away. I sleep a zillion times better now that my shoulders and hips don't hurt. I can't explain it, but it works for me.

Quote:

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Good words to live by.




Funny you mention Canola oil again. I finally did remember to pick it up this week and today will be my third time cooking with it. How long would you suggest before I start seeing any possible improvements? Do I have to use it everyday?


I thought being gluten free in and of itself would be what I needed to get rid of the inflammation, but I obviously need more than that at this point. I still don't want to use any drugs, even OTC stuff like Aleve like everyone says I should take.

The pains are in my whole foot, at least the underside of it as well as the heels. Pretty much every fleshy part that makes contact with the ground when you walk except the toes. My first night back usually has very little pain by the end of the shift. After 3 nights it's starting to get pretty bad about 1 1/2 hours before the end of the shift. I've got a 6 day stretch coming up soon that I'm not looking forward to. It's great getting a super long span of time off after doing a 6 day shift, but by the 5th and 6th day it's murder walking on them.

I bought a pretty pricey set of Scholl's inserts that are made for work, but they don't really seem to help all that much. I think I'm going to have to break down and spend big bucks on a really good pair of shoes.



I'm glad that gluten free diet is working for you even though you didn't test positive for gluten intolerance. I'm an avid fan of the Joe Rogan podcast and he's had quite a few health "experts" on there and they've talked about that among other diets. He himself is gluten free and can't say enough about how good it is. That's why I decided to give it a shot. Even though the foot pain hasn't gone away yet, the other benefits are pretty staggering and I have no intention to stop eating this way.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 30, 2018 1:10 PM

REAVERFAN


CNN plays montage of Trump attacking media after he praised reporters
http://thehill.com/homenews/media/394955-cnn-plays-montage-of-trump-at
tacking-media-after-he-praised-reporters


And you want civility? LOL!

Now, imagine your average rabid cult following Donald supporter hearing things like that over and over from your President...

Also keep in mind, Donald is attacking freedom of the press for not one thing more than to cover up his mistakes and misdoings. Period. He has the thinnest skin of anyone I've ever known, President or otherwise, and will attack anyone that suggests he isn't perfect.

Just like most dictators... and weak, spoiled two year olds.

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Saturday, June 30, 2018 1:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

And you want civility? LOL!- F
From you, here is this forum? YES, I DO.

I'm not Trump. I'm not a Trump follower. I'm not a white racist. I'm not a "Russian troll"(!). I'm not a communist. I'm not ANYthing of those categories that you deem so frightful that they deserve to be blasted with both barrels. More importantly, I'm not DOING ANYTHING that deserves to be defended against. I'm merely posting MY OPINION, which seems to be too much "free speech" and "free thought" for some around here.

You see people, groups and activities and you become so agitated that you turn around and blast people here?? You've conflated a discussion board with real life, and you seem to think that trolling people who are NOT YOUR ENEMIES is some sort of effective political action?

Quote:

Now, imagine your average rabid cult following Donald supporter hearing things like that over and over from your President...
The average rabid cult that you refer to is, as you said, imaginary. I know quite a few Trump voters, even here in deep blue southern CA, and they are overwhelmingly well-educated, nonwhite immigrants, and at least half of them are women. Maybe if I lived someplace else I'd get a different view of the people that you imagine that you're talking about, but so far your statements and my experience don't square up.

So instead of responding to IMAGINARY ENEMIES, why don't you respond to the real people who are actually posting here? READ what they post, and stop imputing motives to them that they don't have.

Quote:

Also keep in mind, Donald is attacking freedom of the press for not one thing more than to cover up his mistakes and misdoings.
The press is critical of Trump, but one thing it is NOT is "free", it is owned by giant transnationals and is more or less hostage to their interests. Also, it certainly isn't unbiased. The so-called "free press" gave Obama and Hillary giant free passes on all of their corrupt, imperialistic, Constitution-shredding behaviors. It's too bad that we can't count on the socalled "free press" to do it's job of giving us the news about important events and trends.

I'm all up for discussion; I want to know what you think and why, but the truly rabid, hate-filled people that I've experienced lately are all here - people who claim to be liberals who are deeply concerned about "freedom".

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, June 30, 2018 4:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Funny you mention Canola oil again. I finally did remember to pick it up this week and today will be my third time cooking with it. How long would you suggest before I start seeing any possible improvements? Do I have to use it everyday? - SIX
I think the person who discovered that they were short of one of those essential fatty acids took canola oil every day ... maybe a tablespoon or so each time ... and that it took about a week to have an effect. Considering it's a nutritional approach, I think one week is pretty darn fast for a response. Most people wind up waiting a month or more for a new food or supplement to have an effect. I sure hope it works for you!

But even if it doesn't help, please keep taking it. When nutritionists call something "essential", they're not kidding.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, June 30, 2018 5:46 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

And you want civility? LOL!- F
From you, here is this forum? YES, I DO.



Now THAT is the most ironic statement ever posted on FFF.net

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm not Trump. I'm not a Trump follower. I'm not a white racist. I'm not a "Russian troll"(!). I'm not a communist. I'm not ANYthing of those categories that you deem so frightful that they deserve to be blasted with both barrels. More importantly, I'm not DOING ANYTHING that deserves to be defended against. I'm merely posting MY OPINION, which seems to be too much "free speech" and "free thought" for some around here.



Nah, you're a troll who posts images of mutilated children. Worse than that, you post them over and over and then come up with some phony outrage to justify being a troll. And you post those images without any regard for the victim or their family and without any knowledge or real concern for how the person actually died. You really can't be more uncivil or a bigger pos troll than that.
Hey, you never did answer how you'd feel if it was your daughter in those images - how come?

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Saturday, June 30, 2018 5:50 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Apparently GSTRING votes against civility, too: He just can't stop himself from attacking, even in a thread about civility.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, June 30, 2018 6:09 PM

JJ


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

And you want civility? LOL!- F
From you, here is this forum? YES, I DO.



Now THAT is the most ironic statement ever posted on FFF.net

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm not Trump. I'm not a Trump follower. I'm not a white racist. I'm not a "Russian troll"(!). I'm not a communist. I'm not ANYthing of those categories that you deem so frightful that they deserve to be blasted with both barrels. More importantly, I'm not DOING ANYTHING that deserves to be defended against. I'm merely posting MY OPINION, which seems to be too much "free speech" and "free thought" for some around here.



Nah, you're a troll who posts images of mutilated children. Worse than that, you post them over and over and then come up with some phony outrage to justify being a troll. And you post those images without any regard for the victim or their family and without any knowledge or real concern for how the person actually died. You really can't be more uncivil or a bigger pos troll than that.
Hey, you never did answer how you'd feel if it was your daughter in those images - how come?



Well put G, well put.

T


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Saturday, June 30, 2018 7:23 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Signy

You have to remember that GEEBERS was deeply, throughly confused about why his thread - posted and titled for the sole purpose of attacking two people - could possibly be sent to troll country.

'Ya figure that out yet, GEEBERS?




SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Sunday, July 1, 2018 12:04 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh, I still wonder what GSTRING's role was in that south-of-the-border movie that apparently involved torture. He CLAIMED to have had a part in it. I wonder how much "civility" was involved.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, July 1, 2018 12:28 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I guess I haven't been keeping up that well. No loss. I have better uses for my time.

But if you can manage to have a productive, civil discussion with certain people here, I will think of you as a miracle worker.




SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Sunday, July 1, 2018 12:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Libertarian? Conservative? Classic Liberal? Leftivists don’t just believe you’re a bad person — they WANT to believe it

I’m not a social media person, but a few days ago, I posted my very first comment on Instagram, in response to a woman whose site I had read for years. Enraged by the border story, she had just posted an Instagram ordering those who didn’t see the world her way to take a hike.

It puzzled me at first. Hers is not a political site – far from it. And though she claimed she didn’t care about likes, I know that she has struggled for years with the classic insecurity bloggers often face when confronted with the popularity contest that is the Internet. She was posting in order to vent — and to let others know that she was, unlike half the country, kind, good-hearted and moral.

She was, in essence, although genuinely (and understandably) angered by the idea of children in distress, virtue signaling… another common symptom found on Internetitis.

“Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, jabronis!” she wrote. (I had to look that one up; it’s cool kid slang for ignorant.)

Was she kicking non-leftists — conservatives, libertarians and classic liberals — off her Instagram? I decided to ask.

We’ve had lunch together years ago (a prelude to an interview I did with her). When her first child was born, I sent her a gift, and when her husband started a small business, I supported their young, gutsy entrepreneurial spirit by purchasing some merchandise.

She doesn’t “know” me, but she should know me well enough to see that I am not the “monster” she thinks all those not on the left to be.

I posted. My comment was polite, respectful and pointed out that she might not have the whole story. (Although I shouldn’t have to say this, the audio we all heard broke my heart and angered me as well. No compassionate human being alive can be immune to the sounds of a child in distress. But that wasn’t my point in my comment. My point, in response to her post, is that she was vilifying people outright based on a very narrow version of that story… and that furthering the divide doesn’t exactly engender progress towards solutions.)

You can imagine what happened next: All remnants of “inclusiveness” and “LoveTrumpsHate” went out the window. Other commenters railed at me, calling me self-righteous, IGNORANT, and other names. And the blogger herself showed me the door: I wasn’t good enough for her. In the face of my terribleness, she told the crowd, she would “draw the line.”

She was superior to me. Period.

It wasn’t a great shock. These are the same types of people who shunned conservative family members the Thanksgiving after Donald Trump won the election. In the extreme, this is the same type who opened fire on a group of Republican Congressmen (a story the media quickly dropped, which would not have happened if they’d been Democrats). The same type who openly wish horrible fates on the wife and child of the president.

I tried to post another comment, in response to some of the attacks.

It wouldn’t post. I’d been blocked. And demonized. For stating that she might not have the whole story, and that it might be good to listen to each other.

The lessons here:

1) The campaign to control people by keeping them in a [permanent] state of agitated, enraged crisis is working — really, really well;

2) The campaign to demonize the other side through such means truly is embroiling us in, as ethicist Dennis Prager has said for years, a (thus far non-violent) civil war; and, in short,

3)They WANT to believe we’re evil.

This may be why so many posters here ROUTINELY put words in my mouth, claiming that I want things that I really don't, or promote policies that I in fact disagree with, or that I'm something that I never have been.

Quote:

Leftism, as Mr. Prager has stated for years, is the world’s fastest growing religion. It is a tribe. A belief system. An identity.

People like to belong to something. In the absence of traditional religion in the West, Leftism has filled that vacuum in the form of identity politics.

When Barack Obama won his second election, I was upset. After having covered him in the 2008 Presidential Campaign, and having voted for him then, I’d seen how recklessly and deliberately he had run up the debt – in what Dinesh D’Souza calls the ultimate weapon of mass destruction – and how he had fomented race wars in a way not seen before in my lifetime.

But did I shun my leftist friends? Did I demonize them for wanting kids to be confused about what chromosomes they had? Did I “ghost” them – the way a number of acquaintances did me when they found out I wasn’t part of their tribe?

Of course not. But politics isn’t my identity. If someone disagrees with me, I’m not under the illusion that they are rejecting who I am.

Not so on the left. (And I’m not talking about classic liberals here — those JFK types who share many conservative values but think that bigger government is the answer to society’s problems.)

If I don’t think a man who happily baked for gay people should be forced to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple, then I am a homophobic bigot. (Tell my best friend of 25 years, who is gay, and whose wedding I’ve offered to plan.)

If I think that voting for someone simply because it’s “time” for a woman to be president is a silly reason to do so, I am anti-woman. (I’m a woman.)

If I know, from having worked in the news media for 15 years, that the press is, by and large, top-down, lock-step on the left, then I am an alt-right fringe conspiracy theorist… and a fascist at that.

The blogger in question didn’t want to discuss the story. Didn’t want to discuss issues. Didn’t want to discuss solutions. What she wanted was to feel good about her position, and to signal it to all those around her. (My husband calls it — forgive the crudeness — virtubating.)

She wants to tell everyone she’s in the right tribe. She wants to believe that all not in that tribe are terrible, horrible, no good, very bad people. That reinforces her belief that her tribe — her identity – is correct.

That’s why they truly believe that anyone not on the left want children in cages and treated like animals. And if there’s a question that this is about identity — let this blogger be an example. Earlier, she had posted that she’d lost a lot of her patriotism after Trump’s election.

In other words — her tribe had lost. So she didn’t like the country anymore.

Or her fellow citizens either, much like SECOND who has expanded his circle of hate from Trump to the Trump administration to Trump supporters to Texas Republicans to ALL Republicans to roughly half of the country to anyone who isn't in the top 1%.

Quote:

But then she started getting into genealogy and found out that her ancestors were on the Mayflower. And that — being Northerners — they’d been on the correct side during the first Civil War. That made her patriotic again.

Note — it wasn’t the tenets of America, the freedoms upon which we were founded, the extraordinary courage of the Founding Fathers and those who fought with them — that made her patriotic. It was her family’s identity. See – the Left doesn’t believe in American exceptionalism. It believes in its own.

The author herself has expanded HER circle of hate to from one jerk on Instagram to ALL "leftists", imputing motives to "them" that "they" all might not all share.

Doing this is madness. It is driving our nation apart, when IN REALITY we have far more in common than what separates us.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, July 1, 2018 12:35 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JJ:
Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

And you want civility? LOL!- F
From you, here is this forum? YES, I DO.



Now THAT is the most ironic statement ever posted on FFF.net

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm not Trump. I'm not a Trump follower. I'm not a white racist. I'm not a "Russian troll"(!). I'm not a communist. I'm not ANYthing of those categories that you deem so frightful that they deserve to be blasted with both barrels. More importantly, I'm not DOING ANYTHING that deserves to be defended against. I'm merely posting MY OPINION, which seems to be too much "free speech" and "free thought" for some around here.



Nah, you're a troll who posts images of mutilated children. Worse than that, you post them over and over and then come up with some phony outrage to justify being a troll. And you post those images without any regard for the victim or their family and without any knowledge or real concern for how the person actually died. You really can't be more uncivil or a bigger pos troll than that.
Hey, you never did answer how you'd feel if it was your daughter in those images - how come?



Well put G, well put.

T




Well put garbage.

You two, along with RF are constantly abusive to others, but especially to Signy. I'm pretty sure that RF is one of your alter-egos that allow you to be even more terrible than you usually are.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, July 1, 2018 12:42 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Rather than being upset by the FACT that we've tortured and killed people in their own nations, or trained and paid someone to do it for us ... GSTRING and THUGR object to PICTURES of our activities? As if "pictures" were the real problem, and not ignorance?

Still, GSTRING claims to have been part of "that movie". So if he isn't making a claim about something that never happened, what WAS his role in that south-of-the-border snuff film? Maybe his objection to the picture is that he recognized his own handiwork? So far, he's refused to answer that question, despite claiming direct experience.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, July 1, 2018 1:37 AM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Rather than being upset by the FACT that we've tortured and killed people in their own nations, or trained and paid someone to do it for us ... ]




You are never going to GET the irony of your own claptrap...

Blathering about how horrible people are (and have always been and will always be... barring the creation of a truly magic wand) and yet expecting people to get along enough to share EVERYTHING.



YOU CAN'T FIX PEOPLE.

I mean, you're proof!

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Sunday, July 1, 2018 1:47 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:

YOU CAN'T FIX PEOPLE.

I mean, you're proof!





Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, July 1, 2018 2:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Rather than being upset by the FACT that we've tortured and killed people in their own nations, or trained and paid someone to do it for us ... - SIGNY

You are never going to GET the irony of your own claptrap... Blathering about how horrible people

No, dearie, I'm not blathering about how horrible "people" are ... that kind of bias is YOUR specialty ... I'm just expressing how horrible I think YOU are. I'm pretty specific about where I direct criticism.

Quote:

... and yet expecting people to get along enough to share EVERYTHING. - WISHY
Once again, your brain seems to have gotten stuck. YOU'RE the person who thinks we should "share EVERYTHING", particularly if we are sharing with a few million of our closest illegal alien buddies. Did you not read what's posted with my avatar? Or did you fail to understand it?

If I quote myself here, will that help? Here it is
Quote:

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them


Maybe you should try reading with comprehension before you post; it might help.

ETA: I can do this all day long, WISHY. But if you should ever decide that civility is your better option, just let me know.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, July 1, 2018 7:15 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

And you want civility? LOL!- F
From you, here is this forum? YES, I DO.

I'm not Trump. I'm not a Trump follower. I'm not a white racist. I'm not a "Russian troll"(!). I'm not a communist. I'm not ANYthing of those categories that you deem so frightful that they deserve to be blasted with both barrels. More importantly, I'm not DOING ANYTHING that deserves to be defended against. I'm merely posting MY OPINION, which seems to be too much "free speech" and "free thought" for some around here.

You see people, groups and activities and you become so agitated that you turn around and blast people here?? You've conflated a discussion board with real life, and you seem to think that trolling people who are NOT YOUR ENEMIES is some sort of effective political action?
Quote:

Now, imagine your average rabid cult following Donald supporter hearing things like that over and over from your President...
The average rabid cult that you refer to is, as you said, imaginary. I know quite a few Trump voters, even here in deep blue southern CA, and they are overwhelmingly well-educated, nonwhite immigrants, and at least half of them are women. Maybe if I lived someplace else I'd get a different view of the people that you imagine that you're talking about, but so far your statements and my experience don't square up.

So instead of responding to IMAGINARY ENEMIES, why don't you respond to the real people who are actually posting here? READ what they post, and stop imputing motives to them that they don't have.

Quote:

Also keep in mind, Donald is attacking freedom of the press for not one thing more than to cover up his mistakes and misdoings.
The press is critical of Trump, but one thing it is NOT is "free", it is owned by giant transnationals and is more or less hostage to their interests. Also, it certainly isn't unbiased. The so-called "free press" gave Obama and Hillary giant free passes on all of their corrupt, imperialistic, Constitution-shredding behaviors. It's too bad that we can't count on the socalled "free press" to do it's job of giving us the news about important events and trends.

I'm all up for discussion; I want to know what you think and why, but the truly rabid, hate-filled people that I've experienced lately are all here - people who claim to be liberals who are deeply concerned about "freedom".

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

From an old school perspective, I have no idea how you keep the CapsLock off.

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Sunday, July 1, 2018 8:01 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Apparently GSTRING votes against civility, too: He just can't stop himself from attacking, even in a thread about civility.



You think me strongly disapproving of you posting images of mutilated children is an attack? How so?

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Sunday, July 1, 2018 8:07 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I still wonder what GSTRING's role was in that south-of-the-border movie that apparently involved torture. He CLAIMED to have had a part in it. I wonder how much "civility" was involved.



Hey you edited out where you said I was a torturer! You have a conscience in there some where?

The "movie?" Hehehe... It's amusing how far off you are - just shows the lies you will even tell yourself. What I was referring to was the Russia Invades Ukraine thread. My point was I'd seen so much of your lying and deflections and denials that I didn't need to go down that path again. I know who you are and why you post, "I've seen the movie."

You keep embarrassing yourself.


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