REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Can you prioritize?

POSTED BY: WISHIMAY
UPDATED: Sunday, July 21, 2019 22:46
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Friday, July 19, 2019 9:53 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


So...

Are you going to apologize to me for the "Muh Whaman" stuff, Kiki?

I don't treat you any different than I do JSF or CC or any of the other guys when we're arguing here. I'd say that overall I try to be more polite to you. Not because you're a woman, but because we're friendly in the Garden and Rain thread. But sometimes that is hard when you start dropping personal insults in your replies.

Even though we don't agree on a lot regarding the male/female stuff in general, I don't consider you to be a modern pink haired weirdo millennial feminist type. But comments like the one you gave me last night show a little of that peeking through.


I don't ever recall a time where I called you a misandrist because you didn't agree with my point of view on something. That's just not my go-to frame of mind on things. Honestly, the only woman I know in real life or online that I would say that about is Wishy. She doesn't even have to be having an argument with somebody to say something shitty about men in general. She wears her hatred for men like it's a badge of honor.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, July 19, 2019 12:12 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I drink my tap water, but even tho it's pretty good it's probably not good for me.

My fair city relies 100% on well water. They don't fluoridate it, they don't even chlorinate it, it's super "hard" so its chock-full of calcium and magnesium, and since it comes from underground it doesn't have algae. Overall, it tastes a little salty and "sweet" compared to lake or river water but (when I could smell) I never detected any "funk".

So, why don't I trust it?

This area has been industrialized for decades. Parts of the aquifer have been contaminated with industrial solvents seeping into the ground. Sure, they test for the common solvents, but what about the ten-thousand (or more) industrial chemicals in use?

The aquifer is actively managed by a regional agency, and they keep it bumped up by recharging it with heavily-purified "recycled water" (i.e. sanitary sewer water). Yep, they can filter out the shit and squeeze out the excess salt (reverse osmosis) and kill most of the pathogens with chlorine and even ozonate it, but there is a whole series of persistent chemicals including PFOS that they don't even test for which could in theory be concentrated more and more each time they percolate recycled water into the aquifer.

And finally, my water contains a completely natural hazard: radium. Along with the beneficial calcium and magnesium, the rocks around here contain radium. Other places potentially contain arsenic, or asbestos, or any number of natural hazards.

Anyway, I've been drinking tap for for decades now. If there's a health risk associated with it, I guess I'm toast.

My suggestion would be, for people who live in areas where water is known to be contaminated or where it smells bad, is to buy a filter and filter your own. That's all the commercial companies do anyway (unless it says "distilled" in which case it's been boiled and recondensed.) Commerically "purified" water isn't even all that clean unless they sanitize the ion exchage resins (doubtful) or disinfect the water on the way out (doubtful); when I was told to rinse my nose I was also told to only use DISTILLED water, as "purified" water could contain organisms like psuedomonas or legionella. At least at home you can keep on top of how often you change the filter and wash the container.

Then use washable sports bottles to carry around with you They even have nice ones made of stainless which won't leach plastic into your drining water.

I'm sure this has been discussed already, so this may be a completely redundant post.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, July 19, 2019 2:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Jack, you're an ass.

I'll start calling you Jackass, OK?

During the exchange UNLIKE YOU I was EXTREMELY fact-focused, backed up all my claims, addressed your points directly, and posted not even the littlest bit of snark. Though I can't tell you have MANY times I had to metaphorically bite my tongue and NOT reply to your snark with my own, and to address your unsupported claims with carefully researched replies AS IF you had made some kind of legitimate argument, and to follow your many argument dodges without criticism.

Despite you being treated to every single courtesy, your behavior wasn't just a post or two. It was literally every single fucking post to me. Not only that, it didn't escape my notice that your reply to CC, who made very similar arguments to mine, was courteous and on point. Why is that, Jackass?

So STFU. And BTW, you can kiss my ass.

Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Anybody who buys a bottle of water that doesn't live in a place like Flint, Michigan or somewhere else that the water is unsafe or at least absolutely unpalatable IS the problem.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
... Please try to address the totality.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
UNSUPPORTED ASSERTIONS cough bullshit cough Unless somebody lives in an area where perfectly fine tap water isn't available for free ... available everywhere ... Unless you're out running a marathon in Flint Michigan ... perilous trek between a kitchen faucet and a water fountain.
STRAWMAN ARGUMENTS Trying to compare this to putting petrol in your gas tank is beyond apples and oranges.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
ADDRESSES YOUR CLAIMS DIRECTLY WITHOUT SNARK OR INSULT I can't generally think of outdoors places with water. Out on the sidewalks in the suburbs? On the streets in the city? In a park or rural area? The only outdoor place that I can think of that had free water was Toronto, where there were free water fountains on the sidewalks every few blocks. And I don't consider having to buy a meal to pay for the water to be free water. And I can't imagine anyone walking into a restaurant and getting just water for free without ordering anything.
Who buys bottled water, and why ... Aside from people exercising or working outdoors, or working out of their cars all day, and of course people with toxic or foul-smelling water (blue-green algae makes a terrible smell when mixed with chlorine), I can't imagine who would be buying bottled water. Maybe you can tell me? Why do people buy bottled water for reasons other than potability and portability?
Which gets us to the plastic bottle. Maybe people ARE too lazy to clean those suckers out and reuse them. But I can attest that a week of reuse is enough to build up a poop-smelling biofilm. Sooner or later you're going to have to buy a new bottle. So you can reduce the problem of the plastic water bottle, but not eliminate it, not even with more effort.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
UNSUPPORTED ASSERTIONS We've got them (water fountains) everywhere.
BACKTRACKS ARGUMENT ABOUT 'WASHING THEM' OUT I never said anything about reusing the plastic bottles I'm saying that most people shouldn't be buying in the first place. I'm talking about buying a bottle at a store that doesn't come with any beverage inside of it that is designed with plastics that are safe for reuse and are also easy to wash.
COMPLETELY UNCALLED FOR SNARK You don't have those out in California either?


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
CALLS FOR SPECIFICS TO BACK YOUR CLAIMS, SNARK AND INSULT-FREE Water fountains EVERYWHERE?

Say you're a suburban jogger and you're jogging along suburban streets in Madison WI. Are there water fountains along the sidewalks? Say you're in Grant Park in Chicago, or Delaware Park in Buffalo. Are there water fountains out in those parks? How about if you're moseying along Rodeo drive to gawk at the sights. Are there water fountains out on the sidewalk? Or say you're driving out in the country, with farms and all. Are there fountains along the roads?

Come on Jack. Give me SPECIFIC examples of those water fountains EVERYWHERE.




Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Growing up in the south suburbs of Chicago there were parks littered everywhere for the kids and there was always at least 1 water fountain by them. Bike trails galore tied into quite a few of these where joggers would run and they had them. If you're going on a trip, all of the rest stops in Illionis have them.
COMPLETELY UNCALLED FOR SNARK and fails to address my personal observations about suburban streets as in Madison WI, large parks as in Grant Park in Chicago, or Delaware Park in Buffalo, city streets as in Rodeo Drive, or rural areas.
But if you want, I won't argue that point any further since maybe I just grew up in Waterworld in the south suburbs of Chicago.
It still doesn't negate the fact that you can buy plastic sports bottles nearly anywhere for a few bucks that are completely safe to drink out of, are dishwasher safe, are easy to clean by hand, and can be reused a billion times. You can even easily add ice to them, which isn't so easy to do in store bought bottled water.
UNSUPPORTED ASSERTION
Many places actually have stricter government rules on the purity and filtration than the companies selling bottled water do. BACKS AWAY FROM ORIGINAL UNPALATABILITY EXCEPTION AND UNSUPPORTED (AND UNTRUE BTW) ASSERTION If you have a little funk taste in your water at home in any of these areas, it's most likely the old pipes you have in your house, and not any fault of the city or water reclamation department. A simple water filter attached to the kitchen sink takes care of that, easy peasy.
If we can't even agree that for at least 90% of Americans that purchase bottled water today that UNSUPPORTED (AND UNTRUE BTW) ASSERTION it's just as safe and almost as easy to have great tasting water on the go instead of being lazy and buying bottled water for the convenience, then how are we ever going to make any progress doing better as a species in the bigger picture?
https://sciencing.com/carbon-footprint-plastic-bottle-12307187.html
Quote:

There's more to a plastic water bottle than meets the eye. Knowing its environmental impact just might make a person think twice about grabbing bottled water from the grocery store shelf. The Pacific Institute, a nonprofit research organization, estimates that the energy used in the production and use of plastic bottles is equivalent to filling the bottles one-quarter full with oil. (Oil affects global warming by producing high quantities of greenhouse gases when it's burned.) Here's a deeper dive into the carbon footprint of a plastic water bottle.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
DISPUTES CLAIMS TAP WATER IS SAFE (LIST OF ~120 HARMFUL CONTAMINANTS IDENTIFIED BY THE EPA BUT NOT YET REGULATED)
DISPUTES CLAIMS "funk taste ... most likely the old pipes" with 7 links showing 20 states have cyanobacteria blooms that put the funk in the water (as well as toxins)
DISPUTES CLAIMS "A simple water filter attached to the kitchen sink takes care of that, easy peasy." WITH 3 LINKS INDICATING FUNK AND TOXINS ARE DIFFICULT TO REMOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
AD HOMINEM Well... I figured with how forcefully you were defending those that drink bottled water, I was pretty sure that you did yourself and weren't just arguing on their behalf.
UNSUPPORTED ASSERTION They're voting with their wallet that the status quo is just fine by them.
ASSERTION ALREADY DISPROVED BY FACTS
If you actually have legitimate cause for concern that your local water is contaminated, then you safely fall in the minority of people in America that have valid health concerns about what's in their water.
Pulling it up, treating it and then UNSUPPORTED ASSERTION transporting it around the world UNSUPPORTED ASSERTION More than half of bottled water IS tap water. UNSUPPORTED ASSERTION Unlike municipalities, the big corporations that make bottled water are not required to release their testing results to the public (why is that, I wonder?)
UNSUPPORTED ASSERTION I'm not going to agree with you that the corporations here are culpable for how the bottles are made. The people have spoken. UNSUPPORTED ASSERTION, AD HOMINEM They have voted with their wallet, and any concerns they pretend to have about the environmental impact of their choices have been negated by those very same choices. They're happily willing to pay an absolutely ridiculous amount for water that's free out of their tap. UNSUPPORTED ASSERTION because as lazy as they already were they can't even fucking be bothered to do that.

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Friday, July 19, 2019 2:11 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



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Friday, July 19, 2019 11:44 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


You can go back and re-read the exchange. You're mistaken.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, July 20, 2019 12:16 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


lol :)

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Saturday, July 20, 2019 1:18 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I agree with Sigs on the issue.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, July 21, 2019 6:07 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I agree with Sigs on the issue.



Of course you do!

Inspite of:
DISPUTES CLAIMS TAP WATER IS SAFE (LIST OF ~120 HARMFUL CONTAMINANTS IDENTIFIED BY THE EPA BUT NOT YET REGULATED)
DISPUTES CLAIMS "funk taste ... most likely the old pipes" with 7 links showing 20 states have cyanobacteria blooms that put the funk in the water (as well as toxins)
DISPUTES CLAIMS "A simple water filter attached to the kitchen sink takes care of that, easy peasy." WITH 3 LINKS INDICATING FUNK AND TOXINS ARE DIFFICULT TO REMOVE

Some things I don't think are being considered:

- How many people who buy water in plastic are buying it away from their house tap? If you are buying it for home use then recycling is easy and those bottles are not part of the problem.

- How many people are buying it instead of the over priced sugar water? That's a win.

- How do those plastic bottles get into the ocean or landfill in the first place? If you buy any liquid in plastic to be consumed away from your house then you have a definite recycle problem. I bet most people just through those bottles in the trash. Does the trash company separate? Why not?

- Tap versus bottled - the source is important. Filtering a bad source doesn't work for me. I buy only spring water.

- There are no guarantees. Like I said, it's a conundrum. You could be getting scammed by anyone of these options: bottle, tap, filter.

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Sunday, July 21, 2019 9:04 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


CC, do you have me and KIKI mixed up?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:06 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
CC, do you have me and KIKI mixed up?



Never! You're voices are very unique to me. Why do you ask?

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Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:46 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
CC, do you have me and KIKI mixed up?



Never! You're voices are very unique to me. Why do you ask?



Ask Ask? Bullshit Trump artists? Did you go away?

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