REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Ann Rice Has Gone Crazy!!!!!!!!!

POSTED BY: SPOOKYJESUS
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 23:34
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 10668
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Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:13 AM

SPOOKYJESUS


Since we're a bunch of people that have pimped the hell out of Amazon's reviews I was wondering what you guys make of this madness.

Here's the story as best I can figure. Ann wrote a crap book. People went onto Amazon and clicked the amount of stars they felt appropriate (i.e.1 or 2) and Amazon being Amazon the reviews weren't particularly balanced or what have you - they were just user comments.

One Day Ann pops onto amazon and decides to read her feedback. Ann's not happy and posts this....

"Seldom do I really answer those who criticize my work. In fact, the entire development of my career has been fueled by my ability to ignore denigrating and trivializing criticism as I realize my dreams and my goals. However there is something compelling about Amazon's willingness to publish just about anything, and the sheer outrageous stupidity of many things you've said here that actually touches my proletarian and Democratic soul. Also I use and enjoy Amazon and I do read the reviews of other people's books in many fields. In sum, I believe in what happens here. And so, I speak.

First off, let me say that this is addressed only to some of you, who have posted outrageously negative comments here, and not to all. You are interrogating this text from the wrong perspective. Indeed, you aren't even reading it. You are projecting your own limitations on it. And you are giving a whole new meaning to the words "wide readership." And you have strained my Dickensean principles to the max. I'm justifiably proud of being read by intellectual giants and waitresses in trailer parks,in fact, I love it, but who in the world are you?

Now to the book. Allow me to point out: nowhere in this text are you told that this is the last of the chronicles, nowhere are you promised curtain calls or a finale, nowhere are you told there will be a wrap-up of all the earlier material. The text tells you exactly what to expect. And it warns you specifically that if you did not enjoy Memnoch the Devil, you may not enjoy this book. This book is by and about a hero whom many of you have already rejected. And he tells you that you are likely to reject him again. And this book is most certainly written -- every word of it -- by me. If and when I can't write a book on my own, you'll know about it.

And no, I have no intention of allowing any editor ever to distort, cut, or otherwise mutilate sentences that I have edited and re-edited, and organized and polished myself. I fought a great battle to achieve a status where I did not have to put up with editors making demands on me, and I will never relinquish that status. For me, novel writing is a virtuoso performance. It is not a collaborative art.

Back to the novel itself: the character who tells the tale is my Lestat. I was with him more closely than I have ever been in this novel; his voice was as powerful for me as I've ever heard it. I experienced break through after break through as I walked with him, moved with him, saw through his eyes. What I ask of Lestat, Lestat unfailingly gives. For me, three hunting scenes, two which take place in hotels -- the lone woman waiting for the hit man, the slaughter at the pimp's party -- and the late night foray into the slums --stand with any similar scenes in all of the chronicles. They can be read aloud without a single hitch. Every word is in perfect place.

The short chapter in which Lestat describes his love for Rowan Mayfair was for me a totally realized poem. There are other such scenes in this book. You don't get all this? Fine. But I experienced an intimacy with the character in those scenes that shattered all prior restraints, and when one is writing one does have to continuously and courageously fight a destructive tendency to inhibition and restraint. Getting really close to the subject matter is the achievement of only great art. Now, if it doesn't appeal to you, fine. You don't enjoy it? Read somebody else.

But your stupid arrogant assumptions about me and what I am doing are slander. And you have used this site as if it were a public urinal to publish falsehood and lies. I'll never challenge your democratic freedom to do so, and yes, I'm answering you, but for what it's worth, be assured of the utter contempt I feel for you, especially those of you who post anonymously (and perhaps repeatedly?) and how glad I am that this book is the last one in a series that has invited your hateful and ugly responses.

Now, to return to the narrative in question: Lestat's wanting to be a saint is a vision larded through and through with his characteristic vanity. It connects perfectly with his earlier ambitions to be an actor in Paris, a rock star in the modern age. If you can't see that, you aren't reading my work. In his conversation with the Pope he makes observations on the times which are in continuity with his observations on the late twentieth century in The Vampire Lestat, and in continuity with Marius' observations in that book and later in Queen of the Damned.

The state of the world has always been an important theme in the chronicles. Lestat's comments matter. Every word he speaks is part of the achievement of this book. That Lestat renounced this saintly ambition within a matter of pages is plain enough for you to see. That he reverts to his old self is obvious, and that he intends to complete the tale of Blackwood Farm is also quite clear.

There are many other themes and patterns in this work that I might mention -- the interplay between St.Juan Diago and Lestat, the invisible creature who doesn't "exist" in the eyes of the world is a case in point. There is also the theme of the snare of Blackwood Farm, the place where a human existence becomes so beguiling that Lestat relinquishes his power as if to a spell. The entire relationship between Lestat and Uncle Julien is carefully worked out. But I leave it to readers to discover how this complex and intricate novel establishes itself within a unique, if not unrivalled series of book. There are things to be said. And there is pleasure to be had. And readers will say wonderful things about Blood Canticle and they already are.

There are readers out there and plenty of them who cherish the individuality of each of the chronicles which you so flippantly condemn. They can and do talk circles around you. And I am warmed by their response. Their letters, the papers they write in school, our face to face exchanges on the road -- these things sustain me when I read the utter trash that you post. But I feel I have said enough.

If this reaches one reader who is curious about my work and shocked by the ugly reviews here, I've served my goals. And Yo, you dude, the slang police! Lestat talks like I do. He always has and he always will. You really wouldn't much like being around either one of us. And you don't have to be. If any of you want to say anything about all this by all means Email me at Anneobrienrice@mac.com. And if you want your money back for the book, send it to 1239 First Street, New Orleans, La, 70130. I'm not a coward about my real name or where I live. And yes, the Chronicles are no more! Thank God!"

--


Ann Rice everybody -

I find the above to be really pretentious and not doing herself any favors. An artist shouldn't resort to the above to defend there art. If they honestly feel that they did there best work and that their creation was complete as they envisioned it that should be enough for them.

I find it messed up.


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Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:34 AM

WILLOWY


She doesn't sound crazy at all. Just incredibly pissed off.

I agree she shouldn't have vented in that forum, though. I'm sure there is a more appropriate place that she could have let her feelings be known.

I feel sorry for her. She obviously let the flamers really get to her.

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Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:55 AM

RADHIL


If that's crazy, sign me up.

I've read a few of her novels, and I don't find her bad at all, but I'm not really a fan. I can understand completely why some don't like her. I know some go out of their way to bash her work. This isn't a reaction to dislike - it's a reaction to rudeness. And it's far more articulate and pointed than those kind of people deserve, really (possibly more articulate than they can understand).

Pretentious? Arrogant? Quite possibly. But then, I imagine, so were the rude reviews.

EDIT - You know, it might be helpful to put up a link, so we could see for ourselves what you're talking about. Really, you need what she was reacting to to provide context. I'm just guessing here, and I hate guessing.

Radhil Trebors
Persona Under Construction

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Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:25 AM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by Spookyjesus:
I was wondering what you guys make of this madness.



actually the title of this thread indicates that you think that this blog shows she has recently gone crazy, but in fact she is no more or less crazy than she has ever been...

How many years ago did they make 'Interview With a Vampire' into a movie? Maybe you don't remember but she went so far as to take out a full page ad in the NYTimes to bitch and moan about the casting of Tom Cruise. Now I can understand her not wanting him, but in fact it was a VERY successful movie and she was forced to apologize over and over again for the ad.

And were you aware that for years now she has threatened to sue fans who write fanfic based on her work? These people aren't trying to sell her characters, they are just devoted fans who want to spend more time with the characters, and she threatens them with legal action....

So personally I'm pretty sure that Ann Rice is a bit unstable and quick to make the big public display of her anger.... But I still wouldn't bother to read that book that her own fans didn't enjoy!

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Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:40 AM

RABIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Spookyjesus:
I find the above to be really pretentious and not doing herself any favors. An artist shouldn't resort to the above to defend there art. If they honestly feel that they did there best work and that their creation was complete as they envisioned it that should be enough for them.

I find it messed up.

And you're welcome to your opinion. I think that she responded in kind to people who were being rude and offensive. She wasn't complaining about people who didn't like the book, she was complaining about how people who didn't like the book were presenting that fact. It's one thing to say "I didn't like it at all." It's something completely different to say the things that people were saying about the book - and about her (which is completely inappropriate).

The impression I get from her message was that she's very tired of something that I am also tired of: rude people hiding behind the blanket of anonymity. People post hateful and rude reviews on Amazon with little care for the consequences of these reviews, as though it is somehow funny or something.

I'll stop there before I get into my own rant...

Rabit

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Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:10 AM

GEORDIESTEVE2003


In the words of the great Kevin Smith, paraphrasing from Jay and Silent Bob, The Internet is tool where people can come together and share ideas, and instead they've used it to slag off movies and read what they believe are insider comments about scripts.

Its the same all over, people love the anonimity of the Internet, they can say whatever they want and hide behind names that make them sound cool. I find it amazing that Anne Rice has even bothered to reply. She doesnt write for the money anymore, she doesnt need it, and she is very popular, so why she bothers to read bad reviews is beyond me. I dont think she is mad, I think she is a bit silly to have bothered to respond to what are probably reviews made by people with the intelligence of boiled cabbage, or hormonal teenagers who think the world owes them everything and they know better than everyone else. She really shouldnt have bothered, it makes her look odd and it will incite more insults from those who feel slighted, and from others who want to try and drag her back into posting another response. Crazy, no. Odd, yes, if only for making all her vampires turn homo-erotic after a while for some reason. Weird.


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Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:19 AM

FIREFLEW


The original post on Amazon had no paragraph breaks - thank you, SpookyJesus for making it much more readable.

You would have thought that a best-selling author (of admittedly, fairly purple prose) would learn to use paragraph breaks.

___________________________________
Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:22 AM

FIREFLEW


Quote:

Originally posted by geordiesteve2003:
In the words of the great Kevin Smith, paraphrasing from Jay and Silent Bob, The Internet is tool where people can come together and share ideas, and instead they've used it to slag off movies and read what they believe are insider comments about scripts.

Its the same all over, people love the anonimity of the Internet, they can say whatever they want and hide behind names that make them sound cool. I find it amazing that Anne Rice has even bothered to reply. She doesnt write for the money anymore, she doesnt need it, and she is very popular, so why she bothers to read bad reviews is beyond me. I dont think she is mad, I think she is a bit silly to have bothered to respond to what are probably reviews made by people with the intelligence of boiled cabbage, or hormonal teenagers who think the world owes them everything and they know better than everyone else. She really shouldnt have bothered, it makes her look odd and it will incite more insults from those who feel slighted, and from others who want to try and drag her back into posting another response. Crazy, no. Odd, yes, if only for making all her vampires turn homo-erotic after a while for some reason. Weird.




The woman is weird. On the launch of, "Interview with a Vampire", she kicked up a fuss because it was in Horror and not in Literature apparently.

Also, I hear that she, on book tours, claims that her books will become the next great pieces of literature (in that she'll be regarded on a par with Steinbeck, Hemingway)

She's well... arrogant is kind, bat-crazy is true.

___________________________________
Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:57 AM

STARPILOTGRAINGER


I've never read any Anne Rice. I've seen the Interview with the Vampire movie and it was okay, some interesting concepts there. Still, all in all, 'not my thing' comes to mind.

However, she comes off as really pretentious and arrogant. Now, I'm able to separate the creator from the creation- some of my favorite works are by people that hold views I really detest, or are egomaniacs. However, I really detest this kind of ego, where she seems to say that she considers her works absolute masterpieces, above criticism (that if you don't like it, it's either something that's a matter of taste, or you simply 'didn't get it', that every sentence is in perfect place and no editor should dare touch it!). If I were considering reading her novels, I might hesitate that much longer because of it. If you already think you're great, you're less likely to force yourself to be better.

(Back to Editors for a moment: If she said something like, 'It's really important to me that everything I write is my own words, not touched by anyone else, so even though it might not be the absolutely best way to put together a sentence, I don't want an editor telling me to change it', to me, that's absolutely fine, and her perogative. But to say that she doesn't _need_ an editor because her prose is the best it could be, a work of genius, then that's another entirely, and it's the latter that annoys me).




Star Pilot Grainger
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/newnumber6
http://www.unreachablestar.net - Comics & SF News/Reviews/Opinions

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Thursday, September 23, 2004 12:06 PM

FIREFLEW


Quote:

Originally posted by StarPilotGrainger:


However, she comes off as really pretentious and arrogant.



I'll quote one phrase which is indicative of this:

"Every word is in perfect place."

Plus. If I recall correctly, she describes writing her novels as, "a virtuoso act... not an ensemble piece."

___________________________________
Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Thursday, September 23, 2004 12:13 PM

PERIDIDDLE


I have to say that I've never read an Anne Rice book in full, but I've never particularly liked the woman herself. I can understand her not liking fanfic, but I don't really agree with her going as far as to take it down off sites when she sees it. If she doesn't like it, she doesn’t have to read it...it's fan written material, I myself would be flattered if someone who read my characters liked them enough that they wanted to continue the story of their lives...

But, hey, it's her stuff, so she can do what she wants with it. But this post is just plain rude. I know the reviewers were getting annoying and stupid, but to go as far as to b!tch out her readers, while reviewing her OWN book on Amazon...that's, IMHO, wrong. And she didn't realize how ignorant she made herself look. Misusing words, giving the enter key none of the love it deserves…doesn't need an editor. *Snorfle* Sorry, but everyone needs an editor. It makes me sick to think that she's written some outrageously good books.

Plus, she was stupid enough to supply her e-mail address, home address, and her real name, which can be typed into Google for her phone number. I can't wait to see what happens out of that.

(Fandom Wank, on um journalfen.com, I think, absolutely tore this post apart. It's kinda funny to read what they said about it)

"Bwaa...it's kind of a warrior...strikes fear into the hearts of..."

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Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:25 PM

SHEPPARD


Quote:

Originally posted by Spookyjesus:
I find the above to be really pretentious and not doing herself any favors.

I don't think 'pretentious' or 'arrogant' are the right words here. She's not making any unjustified claims; she's not being any more extravagantly outwardly showy than any of the other people posting there; she's not making any claims in that message as to her superiority or worth towards anything other than her own creation. She's making a solid statement on her own work. There's no one more qualified to do that - no one more qualified to voice how they feel about the importance and perfection of their own work to themselves - as she is the one who created these characters and stories. If she thinks her words are perfect, then that's what they are. For her. For her work. I can't imagine that she's writing this for anyone else.
Quote:

Originally posted by Spookyjesus:
An artist shouldn't resort to the above to defend there art.

An artist shouldn't have to resort to it. But then again, the people posting reviews shouldn't resort to making unsubstantiated claims against her novel and her person. I didn't read all the posted reviews, but from what I saw and from her own words, it appears as though some people are making false accusations against her and what she was or was not thinking or doing when she was writing this novel. Buying the book or watching the movie doesn't make you an expert in anything when it comes to the creator's intentions, characters, motivations, or stories.

I think she has every right to defend herself, and while fueling the troll fire may not be a great idea, I can't make a summary judgement against her for doing what she believes is the right thing to do for herself and her work. Let's face it, whether we like it or not, being a fan doesn't give us any ownership to the characters or stories she's written. She is the sole owner of her ideas, characters, and stories. (There are plenty of "fans" who will and do disagree with that, but I doubt they've ever created something of their own.)

Sure, she's a bit odd (go to New Orleans and see for yourself ), but who isn't? Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. There's no stopping that and there's sure no percentage in trying to change that. But I would react exactly the same way if readers were being pretentious and assuming they know my own mind better than I do.

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Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:04 PM

FLYINGTAMS


Normal people can feel very hurt when others piss on them. This seem to be have has happened here.

You have to be really self centered (like Joss ;-) ) to have the cool calm grace under pathetic flamage.

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Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:14 PM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by FlyingTams:
You have to be really self centered (like Joss ;-) ) to have the cool calm grace under pathetic flamage.



Joss has the advantage of being as brilliant as he thinks he is...
but he is also a lot more tolerant of his fan's extremes and knows that those who hate him for killing Tara (for instance) still love his work, and those who write crazy fanfic (which are many) are actually paying him a compliment....

Anne Rice not only wants to control her work and her characters, she would also like to control her reviews!

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Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:28 PM

SUCCATASH


Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
Anne Rice not only wants to control her work and her characters, she would also like to control her reviews!

Looks like she has succeeded. I read her review on Amazon earlier today, but now it's gone. There's a few reviews from today, but mine didn't show up, and everything is suddenly deleted back to April 2004. Weird.


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Thursday, September 23, 2004 10:43 PM

KERNELM


Say what you will about the rest of the rant, but her saying that she doesn't need an editor is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard. _Everybody_ needs an editor. To think you don't need an editor is the height of arrogance.

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Friday, September 24, 2004 12:59 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


If I wasn't a Ann Rice fan before, I certainly won't be now. Oh, wait.. I never was a fan of hers.

Quote:

I'm justifiably proud of being read by intellectual giants and waitresses in trailer parks,in fact, I love it, but who in the world are you?


Yep, that pretty much sums it up for me.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, September 24, 2004 1:11 AM

WINTERFELL


just wondering, but how do we know it was even really her? yes it was longwinded like her, but i mean ... this is the internet you know?

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Friday, September 24, 2004 1:58 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by KernelM:
Say what you will about the rest of the rant, but her saying that she doesn't need an editor is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard. _Everybody_ needs an editor.

Why? I don't understand why people keep saying this.

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Friday, September 24, 2004 2:14 AM

WREN


Everytime a bad review for Firefly appears on Amazon people on this board jump up and down, slag off the reviewer and sink the review as quickly as possible. Why shouldn't an author have the right to do the same?

I have read her books. I enjoyed some, but not others. I would never dream of insulting her work though, it is her world and she has the right to take the story where she wants.

I am confused as to why she is arrogant for saying she no longer requires an editor. Do the people who made that comment still require their mummy to wipe their bottoms? I'm guessing the answer is no, because they learnt to do it on their own. Why shouldn't an author have learnt to manage on their own?

I can also understand her getting upset during the filming of Interview with a vampire. Her daughter died at a young age and Anne wrote the character of Claudia in memory of her daughter. She felt strongly about the portrayal of the story because she had a lot of emotion invested in the book. At least she had the guts to admit she was wrong. (Plus look at all the free publicity the film got)

I don't personally know the woman so I won't comment on her personality. If she is arrogant then good for her. She has suffered a lot in her life and instead of choosing to wallow in self pity she has got on with living. I applaud her for standing up to the reviewers, especially if they were writing falsehoods.

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Friday, September 24, 2004 4:26 AM

GAVIDA


Quote:

Originally posted by Spookyjesus:
I'm justifiably proud of being read by intellectual giants and waitresses in trailer parks,in fact, I love it, but who in the world are you?



Now, what other person does this statement remind me of? *cough*georgelucas*cough*

And like to the guy who messed up Star Wars I would like to tell this "unfailable" author:

"I am a guy who spent his money on your stuff, helped make you rich and famous and got a kick in the butt as a "Thank you" "

Well, only my two cents.

Keep flying,
Gavida


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Friday, September 24, 2004 6:02 AM

NEEDLESEYE


Quote:

Originally posted by Fireflew:
Quote:

Originally posted by StarPilotGrainger:
However, she comes off as really pretentious and arrogant.



I'll quote one phrase which is indicative of this:
"Every word is in perfect place."
Plus. If I recall correctly, she describes writing her novels as, "a virtuoso act... not an ensemble piece."



I agree.
When I read Anne's comments it sounded like Lestat talking. Could we consider her alter ego made the response? Oh vanity! thy name is Anne Rice.
To me it sounds like Lestat has finally possessed her entirely. ...kookoo.

A virtuoso act? Take a bow Anne. :P

oh boy



Keeper of Jayne's goggles. 8)

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Friday, September 24, 2004 6:17 AM

WREN


Quote:

Originally posted by Gavida:
Now, what other person does this statement remind me of? *cough*georgelucas*cough*

And like to the guy who messed up Star Wars I would like to tell this "unfailable" author:

"I am a guy who spent his money on your stuff, helped make you rich and famous and got a kick in the butt as a "Thank you" "

Well, only my two cents.

Keep flying,
Gavida



This attitude that Mr Lucas, or for that matter Ms Rice, owe their fans amuses me. You paid money to read/see their product. No one forced you, you did it of your own free will. You got to read/see their product, and hopefully enjoyed it. Now you seem to think that ten dollars (or whatever you paid) entitles you to a say in their lives. In your line of work would you appreciate people thinking they had a right to tell you what to do? After all their money is contributing towards your wages.

Plus, Ms Rice did not tell her fans to get lost. She told a few rude people who were spreading lies, and didn't even have the courage to use their own names, to get lost.

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Friday, September 24, 2004 6:23 AM

KERNELM


Quote:

Originally posted by Wren:
I am confused as to why she is arrogant for saying she no longer requires an editor. Do the people who made that comment still require their mummy to wipe their bottoms? I'm guessing the answer is no, because they learnt to do it on their own. Why shouldn't an author have learnt to manage on their own?


Have you ever written professionally? Nobody's perfect. Are you going to tell the 99.9% of authors out there who do use editors that they're just being big babies?

Editors aren't perfect either, but they're there to help guide you. Be a sounding board, at least. She sure could have used a copy editor for that rant too. :-P

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Friday, September 24, 2004 7:36 AM

FIREFLYGAL


I have read and enjoyed many of Anne Rice's books. The Vampire Chronicles being one. I have stood on line twice to have her autograph her works. She was extremely cordial and polite, but I enjoy her works. I believe her venting was a human response. What Firefly fan has not wanted to thrash Fox up and down because they didn't "get" Firefly. Can we deny Ms. Rice the same privilege of thrashing those who don't "get" her writing? On another note, I do believe she has a bit of eccenticity about her. Which is certainly no crime. By the way, her phone number is no secret and she leaves updates for her fans. As for her personal phone number, I hope that remains personal.

As for editing, I have written news articles professionally and I have got to say, it is ANNOYING AS HELL to have an editor change a word to a similar word. Why did they change it in the first place??? That was a rhetorical question, by the way. I understand completely what she is saying (no I'm not so egoistic that I don't need an editor) but she has lived her writing and her characters and has a fine writing ability and KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTS TO SAY AND HOW TO SAY IT so in her defense (as well as many other capable writers) I believe an editor can do more harm than good. But they are necessary for probably 99% of the writers out there (myself included of course, but I don't have to like it).

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Friday, September 24, 2004 8:37 AM

WREN


Quote:

Originally posted by KernelM:
Have you ever written professionally? Nobody's perfect. Are you going to tell the 99.9% of authors out there who do use editors that they're just being big babies?

Editors aren't perfect either, but they're there to help guide you. Be a sounding board, at least. She sure could have used a copy editor for that rant too. :-P



I would never dream of telling authors who use editors that they are babies. I respect their right to write their book in anyway they see fit. That includes Anne Rice. I am still waiting for someone to explain to me why the fact that she does not want to use an editor makes her such a bad person. You state 'nobody's perfect', in which case she might as well go it alone. At least any mistakes will be hers.

Can you tell me that 99% of authors out there want to use editors? You have to be well known and successful to call the shots on your work. If an author has reached that stage and wants to take advantage of the situation why does that make them arrogant?

A book is a little different to a rant. We are all guilty of sloppy grammer, punctuation and spelling in our everyday writings, particularly when they are emotionally driven. However, we make more effort in our work.

Yes, I have written professionally. Yes, my work was edited. I realised my work required editing, Ms Rice feels hers doesn't. I don't consider that the fact my work required editing makes me a better person than her. I am interested to know why others reacted negatively to her decision.

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Friday, September 24, 2004 9:08 AM

SPOOKYJESUS


I've just heard that people who've taken Ann up on her offer of a refund have had there books returned marked "return to sender" on the envelope.

So not only is she up her own ass - she's dishonest.

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Friday, September 24, 2004 9:53 AM

GHOULMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Anne Rice:
And you have strained my Dickensean principles to the max.

lol! Oh that Anne, she's a pistol!

Good for her.

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Friday, September 24, 2004 10:26 AM

SHEPHERDQ


When I read the post, I had to re read it several times to keep track with what was being said... It looks like I have taken a different veiw of the rant.
IF it was in fact Ann doing the writting....
It looks like more of a blurb on a book jacket to get you to read the book. Hints of who did what and why which is in the book anyway.. and a touch of, " I gotta explain the characters a bit so people will like them " tossed in.
The " I don't need an editor bit" now that is an intersting one. WHY is an editor so important to modify , change an authors work? Have we ever seen an author's original work and the edited version printed side by side and let the people decide which is better?
So who decided that an editor does a better job?
edit for spelling, context etc, but no real point to change words or even title. Some may like an editor to do so and that is fine too.
Still the whole rant seemed to be.. aren't the characters great , go buy a copy.
I always wondered why, if she thinks every word she writes is so great, why she dis-owned ( except for the money ) the Beauty series she wrote that got her started and Exit from Eden. After she made enough money to write full time and have publishers print her stuff.. of a sudden only Vampires count?
I am not a Vampire fan and every time I have tried to read her Vampire books, I have flashbacks of Darkshadows and give up. Yep there is a great number of people that love those Vampire books, and more power to em, and yep, even bought some as Christmas presents.
In short... ignore the rant, buy em if ya like em, don't if ya don't, and if you are afraid you will waste a buck when you buy a book,,, get a library card. The library WANTS the books back and gee, no charge.

The Journey is the worthier part.
www.southdownabbey.com

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Friday, September 24, 2004 10:26 AM

GEORDIESTEVE2003


Quote:

Originally posted by KernelM:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wren:
I am confused as to why she is arrogant for saying she no longer requires an editor. Do the people who made that comment still require their mummy to wipe their bottoms? I'm guessing the answer is no, because they learnt to do it on their own. Why shouldn't an author have learnt to manage on their own?


Have you ever written professionally? Nobody's perfect. Are you going to tell the 99.9% of authors out there who do use editors that they're just being big babies?

Editors aren't perfect either, but they're there to help guide you. Be a sounding board, at least. She sure could have used a copy editor for that rant too. :-P



Gotta agree with this. Everyone does need an editor, and the comment about wiping bottoms is not relevant. To suggest she doesnt need one is to suggest that she is inhuman and beyond mistakes and infallible, and absolutely perfect, and sorry kids, she isnt. I like her books, didnt like others, but wont slate her personally, I just think it is very arrogant and a bit cuckoo of her to go this far. Also saying you learn t do it by yourself shows ignorance of publishing, writing and the industry. News flash, even Stephen King, perhaps the greatest living author alive still has proof readers and editors!!! Also agree with earlier comments about not having to like the person to enjoy their work. Authors dont have to defend themselves, and shouldnt, and for her to do so at this stage suggests something is wrong. She cant be insecure after all her success, so why bother? People who personally slag her off are obviously a bit weird themselves, so not siding with them. I just find the whole situation most odd.

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Friday, September 24, 2004 10:28 AM

GEORDIESTEVE2003


double post.

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Friday, September 24, 2004 10:30 AM

MYCROFT2


Quote:


This attitude that Mr Lucas, or for that matter Ms Rice, owe their fans amuses me. You paid money to read/see their product. No one forced you, you did it of your own free will. You got to read/see their product, and hopefully enjoyed it. Now you seem to think that ten dollars (or whatever you paid) entitles you to a say in their lives. In your line of work would you appreciate people thinking they had a right to tell you what to do? After all their money is contributing towards your wages.



What exactly do the readers owe Ms Rice besides the ten dollars?
They did not like the book and they wrote a review to that effect. If she does not want to read criticism of her work she should not read reviews.

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Friday, September 24, 2004 11:08 AM

TRAGICSTORY


From reading all the reviews it seemed the gist of them was:

Anne turned Lestat into a voicepiece for her to complain at the readers who didn't like her previous books. Then she tried to include all of the characters in her universe in 300 some pages. The results were less than successful. Who wants to be spend money to be told "You suck. You don't understand what I am doing." followed by drivel.

Dear Ms. Rice literature is open to interpretation.

Finally, for someone who claims not need an editor, its LIBEL you ****, NOT SLANDER.

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

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Friday, September 24, 2004 7:00 PM

SHINY


Quote:

Originally posted by Wren:
Now you seem to think that ten dollars (or whatever you paid) entitles you to a say in their lives.



Who's asking for a say in their lives? People are just expressing their dissatisfaction with the product they purchased.

Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

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Friday, September 24, 2004 7:26 PM

11THHOUR


Quote:

TragicStory wrote:

From reading all the reviews it seemed the gist of them was:

Anne turned Lestat into a voicepiece for her to complain at the readers who didn't like her previous books. Then she tried to include all of the characters in her universe in 300 some pages. The results were less than successful. Who wants to be spend money to be told "You suck. You don't understand what I am doing." followed by drivel.



This made me laugh out loud... thanks.

I haven't read an Anne Rice novel since The Vampire Armand. Talk about a book that really needed an editor... whoa doggies. The first part went along fine, and then the last part seemed slapped together in a rush... like Ms. Rice had to jet off to some far flung land to research her next book. Story arcs were left to whiter in mid arc and the conclusion was an exercise in taking the more outlandish tendencies of her writing style and running wild with them... but not in a good way...

I'm saying this as an Anne Rice fan from waaaaaay back... I'm talkin' waaaaaay back. I have a first edition Interview with the Vampire that I bought new, with my "own money", as a school kid... and I've kept up fairly well with her work since then. I've even stood hours in a long line to meet her and have books signed. I was thrilled to meet her and treasure those autographed books to this day.

However, some brilliant and creative people can fall victim to their own style and fame. The attention of legions of "worshipful" fans who will praise an artist's work no matter what, can ultimately do a disservice to that artist. This artist's already eccentric tendencies will be given free rein and run wild, exaggerate, and eventually the creations become a caricature of their former brillance.

There is a balance that needs to be struck with creative individuals. Artists need the freedom to explore, give their ideas room to run and take chances. However, artists also need trusted friends, editors, whatever, to let them know when their creativity has gone from daring, to a mutated version of itself.

Perhaps that's the trap of being super successful... those close to the person hesitate to tell them "no" and risk leaving the inner circle... and the artist distrusts critical outsiders as being ignorant, jealous or dim. After all, if the artist is super successful, who are these complainers to talk?

It's tricky.... Too much criticism and self doubt, and an artist can become locked up. Not enough helpful feedback, and an artist can feel they can do no wrong.

11thHour

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Saturday, September 25, 2004 3:14 AM

NEDWARD


Quote:

Originally posted by 11thHour:
There is a balance that needs to be struck with creative individuals. An artist needs the freedom to explore, give their ideas room to run and take chances. However, the artist also needs trusted friends, editors, whatever, to let them know when their creativity has gone from daring, to a mutated version of itself.

What she said. Rice's views on editors can be perceived as "arrogant" or similar, because she comes across as suggesting that editors are for feeble writers, who will need less editing as they become good writers, and at the very top you have great writers who have cast their editors aside.

This is false.

Some of the very best writers' work is enhanced by their editors. Some of the very best writers don't use editors, and their work might well suffer if they were forced to use editors. (It depends on the writer.) As a general rule, a good writer will always benefit from a good editor. Is it possible that Rice had a bad editor early on, from which experience she has concluded that editors are evil?

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Saturday, September 25, 2004 11:09 PM

11THHOUR


Quote:

Originally posted by nedward:What she said. Rice's views on editors can be perceived as "arrogant" or similar, because she comes across as suggesting that editors are for feeble writers, who will need less editing as they become good writers, and at the very top you have great writers who have cast their editors aside.

This is false.



Yep.

A writer who achieves great book sales is in a position of some power and can make demands. Such as, "No editor may touch a word of my work!"

However, great sales numbers is not automatically the same thing as never, ever, having one's work benefit from a skilled and perceptive editor.

Quote:

Some of the very best writers' work is enhanced by their editors. Some of the very best writers don't use editors, and their work might well suffer if they were forced to use editors. (It depends on the writer.) As a general rule, a good writer will always benefit from a good editor. Is it possible that Rice had a bad editor early on, from which experience she has concluded that editors are evil?


When Anne Rice first hit the scene she, naturally, was unknown. Her style and approach to the fantastical subject material she chose was bound to meet with some resistance... and most likely, endeavors to "rein her in". This is infuriating to an artist with a unique vision who is just starting and working to make her way. She did use the term "mutilate" in conjunction with the subject of editors. So yes, it seems her prior experiences were not positive.

Even excellent writers can go off on tangents. No creative individual is immune to this. Having the assistance of an editor who has the right feel and understanding of the writer's style, and has the valuable position of objectivity, can be of enormous benefit.

Even the most beautiful trees can have unhealthy or "crazy growing" branches. Having someone who knows what parts need to be trimmed to help shape the tree and preserve the best of it, is a good thing.

But in the end, the artist needs to have final say. The hope is that the artist can keep his/her ego in check enough to be able to listen to others when the advice is needed.

11thHour

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Monday, September 27, 2004 2:22 AM

GHOULMAN


This is the best thread ever.

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Monday, September 27, 2004 4:58 AM

EMBERS


I agree, it is an entertaining thread....
but I'm wondering, those of you who are fans
and agree w/Anne Rice that every word is precious.
Are you really telling me that you don't skip a few paragraphs
when she REALLY gets going on her 'Philosophy'
because I can tell you, I was skipping pages
and pages, at a time!

Not need an editor! Ha! She only thinks every word is perfect,
and she is really wrong.

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Monday, September 27, 2004 4:58 AM

EMBERS


bugger, another double post...
what is the problem here?? sigh

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Monday, September 27, 2004 5:21 AM

HADITNUIT


Did anyone see her "guest appearance" on Something Positive? it was a few days back on www.somethingpositive.net ...I believe the direct link is
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp09212004.shtml

It just amused me, after seeing all of the reactions to her self-review.




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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 11:31 PM

11THHOUR


Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
This is the best thread ever.



It is fun isn't it?

I find the subject of what happens to creativity, when exposed to great wads of money and fame, a fascinating subject.

11thHour

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 11:34 PM

11THHOUR


Quote:

Originally posted by haditnuit:
Did anyone see her "guest appearance" on Something Positive? it was a few days back on www.somethingpositive.net ... I believe the direct link is
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp09212004.shtml

It just amused me, after seeing all of the reactions to her self-review.



heh... heh...

hmmmm... looks like someone else has noticed that a certain writer can get really intense...

11thHour

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