Firefly's Villians Discussion; Not Firefly Eulogy by Zero

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Firefly's Villians Discussion; Not Firefly Eulogy

POSTED BY: ZERO
UPDATED: Friday, January 3, 2003 00:21
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Saturday, December 28, 2002 4:00 PM

I thought we could start a discussion about some of the Firefly villians, and try to steer away from the Firefly cancellation speculations for a second.

One of the main things Ive noticed about some of the Firefly villians so far, is that their fates we never truely revealed. Saffron from "Our Mrs. Reynolds", Adelei Niska from "The Train Job" & "War Stories", Jubel Early from "Objects In Space", Stitch from "Jaynestown", Crow from "The Train Job" & The 2 Blue-Hand Men from "The Train Job" & "Ariel"; are all the major villians that Ive noticed so far, and the first 3 were all conveniently brushed aside at the end of each of their respective episodes. In episode 3, Mal catches up with Saffron and knocks her out. But then when Inara asks "So, does the vixen live?", Mal just says, "If you can call it that..." and thats it. In episode 10, at the end, Jubel is just cast out into space, floating away. And in episode 9, at the end, when Mal escapes from the torture, he goes after Niska, but then one his cronies steps in and they end up killing him in the end. Later the crew is amazed that Mal spares Niska, which they never explained or even showed. Other than Crow and Stitch which both got the axe, there is only the 2 Blue-Hand men left, which I think will be elaborated later on. So what do you guys think REALLY happened to Niska, Saffron and Early, and how do you think they could possibly make a return??

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Saturday, December 28, 2002 6:47 PM

SERGEANTX

Cool thread.

I was thinking a while ago about the Reavers. In 'Bushwacked' they brutalized the colonists but didn't take any of their valuable supplies. This was noted but never explained. I was thinking about this:

What if the Reavers are something like state sponsered terrorists? Perhaps the Alliance secretly finances their operations to keep the frontier planets in fear, i.e. in need of protection.

Just a thought.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Saturday, December 28, 2002 8:06 PM

HJERMSTED

Here's my take on the villains:

Niska- Like the weasel he is, escaped trough a hatch of some kind at the end of "War Stories". He'll be back, but don't be surprised if the crew of Serenity is forced to work with that sadistic mofo someday.

Mrs. Saffron Reynolds- has already returned. That episode (entitled "Trash") has been filmed but not aired.

Blue Hand Dudes- Like the Terminator, they'll be back. I'd love to see these guys become afraid of River someday (around the same time River stops fearing them).

Jubal Early- I suspect built into his suit Jubal had a remote way of communicating with and guiding his little ship. Either that or he has some kind of beacon to alert another ship. He's too cool a character not to have back on the show.

The Reavers- The most enigmatic of the Firefly baddies. Certainly they are dreaded and feared but consider this: They can't be all 100% deranged. Somehow they operate spaceships and keep them running (although they seem to ignore environmental and safety regulations). We have an idea what they're like when they're mean and nasty but there is much to learn about the day-to-day existence of the Reavers. I'm certain their lifestyle is fascinating. Perhaps there is a Jem'Hadar-like thing going on with them.

Stitch- I'm certain this dude is dead. I'm betting that Jayne has far more interesting enemies throughout the 'verse.

This show must come back so we can find out!!!!

mattro

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Saturday, December 28, 2002 9:08 PM

HKCAVALIER

Did I dream this or did somebody on this board suggest that the Reavers might be failed proto-Rivers that the Alliance just really

up and couldn't terminate so they just sent them out into the black and now THEY'RE BA-ACK! They could opperate their ships pretty automatically a la River and still be utterly mad. Later on, say season 3 or so, River could heal them with her super powers and become their queen, and bring down the Alliance! Yeah...that's the ticket!

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Saturday, December 28, 2002 11:28 PM

HKCAVALIER

Just got to see "Ariel" again (thank you KaZaA). Some thoughts on the blue hand guys: what's with the sonic wand thingy? First of all they had to kill everybody simply for talking to River? This suggests to me that River is a "carrier" of somekind, that somehow River has "contaminated" these men with her speach (thoughts?). Secondly, the blue wand is not the most efficient means to kill someone is it? If I were going to use an ultra-high tech Pixie Stick of Death, I think I could get one that worked instantaneously and without my victims screaming in agony and I'd get one that didn't tend to leave large pools of blood anywhere. Which all suggests that the blue wands are not used merely to kill someone, but to somehow deal with the "agent" that has "infected" these men, rendering it inoperative and/or irretrievable. In a few seconds they somehow erase all mental functioning in the subject or something. Now I'm using a disease metaphor but I think whatever River communicates to people is some kind of holographic, subconscious information or activation code or, hell, I don't know what! Just trying to make sense of the blue wand...

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey. Don't be mean, we don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Sunday, December 29, 2002 4:02 PM

MARK

The Raver/Terrorist idea is pretty interesting... But unlikely I think. If the alliance wanted to scare the outer worlds, then they'd fund a bunch of pirates. Reavers would be too uncontrollable, too wild... They wouldn't want what happened in Bushwacked, to happen. They wouldn't want their boys fighting with the crews of their own cruisers. They'd pay the pirates to turn tail and run at the first sight of one of their ships as proof that they could control the problem.

I think Early's dead. It always annoys me when people say that having your air run out is a horrible, painful way to die. It isn't. It's peaceful and quiet. Besides, I think having one recurring character on the show who's nuts is enough. If Joss makes all the bad guys crazy, and River too, well they might as well start calling it "The Shiny".

The Blue-Hands... With their translucent pixie-stick (Whatever they are) of death... I think they're part of a secret government branch that operates outside of the law and is seeking a way to make the population more pliable and easy to control. The alliance doesn't like free will and rebellious elements. They want to train people like River as their Enforcers. But they also cannot allow any hint of their work to get out, hence the tradition of eliminating anyone who might have aquired dangerous information. By the sound of it, the device is an ultrasonic generator that bursts the capillaries in the ears, eyes, mouth and brain. This leads to massive Hemmorhaging and death. Re: Suffocating to death not being so bad... Concussive sonic disruption, now that is an horrendous way to die. Ask anyone who's ever been into the Bell chamber of St. Pauls while a Peal is being rung.

Saffron... She'll never mess with Serenity again... But she might just go on playing the game. Or I can see her coming back, tail between her legs, needing Mal's help or protection. And you know he'd give it to her too.

Twelve spheres of unendurable brightness spalled the velvety blackness of space.
The silence on Lester Tourville's flag bridge was absolute
And then the spell was broken as Shannon Foraker looked up from her console from where she had just sent a seemingly innocent command to the main computers of State Security's finest Superdreadnoughts.
"Oops." She said.

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Sunday, December 29, 2002 8:16 PM

KURUKAMI

Quote:
Originally posted by Zero:
... Adelei Niska from "The Train Job" & "War Stories"...

... And in episode 9, at the end, when Mal escapes from the torture, he goes after Niska, but then one his cronies steps in and they end up killing him in the end. Later the crew is amazed that Mal spares Niska, which they never explained or even showed.

I wasn't under the impression that Mal "spared" Niska at all... more that Niska slipped away and made his escape while Mal was grappling with the mook. What are you pointing to that suggests Mal "spares" Niska?

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Monday, December 30, 2002 2:33 AM

ZERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurukami:
I wasn't under the impression that Mal "spared" Niska at all... more that Niska slipped away and made his escape while Mal was grappling with the mook. What are you pointing to that suggests Mal "spares" Niska?

Well at the end Inara says, "I just wish you'd have killed that old bastard." and then Mal says something about regret. I just thought that since they never showed his death and Mal talked of regret, that he'd just spared him. But, now that I think about it, it could go either way. In either case, they glazed over Niska's fate and thats what I was really trying to get at. They never showed him getting in an escape pod or running away or anything, all of a sudden he's just not in the scene.

As for the other posts about the Blue-Hand Men, personally I think they are the like the MIBs, top-secret government work. The so-called "pixie-sticks of death" looked quite abit like the memory erasor things that they had in Men In Black. Leave no evidence: I think they killed all those people for that reason. The one thing, though, that I was curious about in Ariel, was why werent the Blue-Hand Men affected by the death-sticks? It emitted some kind of sound or frequency or something which doesnt exactly seem directional, like they wouldnt be able to point it AT someone, just kinda flip the switch and the area is affected. Do they have some kind of an immunity to it? Are they breed for it? Do they have some kind of implant or device on them that renders them immune? Can earplugs render you immune? I dunno, what do u ppl think?

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-=ZERO=-
Check me out on WinMX, I have all the episodes in SVCD format. Any Firefly fans get free starts, just msg me.

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Monday, December 30, 2002 6:22 AM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by Zero:
Leave no evidence: I think they killed all those people for that reason.

Leave no evidence? Leave no evidence! Six blood-soaked bodies rotting on the floor isn't evidence? 500 years in the future if they wanted to vaporize these people and leave no trace I think they could do it. What they did made a lot less sense than that.

And yeah, the blue wand had this devastating effect to which the MIBg (men in blue gloves) were entirely immune. We need more information, damn it! For the love of all that is holy they must bring Firefly back!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, Don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Monday, December 30, 2002 7:17 AM

HJERMSTED

Quote:

Leave no evidence? Leave no evidence! Six blood-soaked bodies rotting on the floor isn't evidence? 500 years in the future if they wanted to vaporize these people and leave no trace I think they could do it. What they did made a lot less sense than that.

Yeah, but who's going to testify against the Blue Hands when your own personal puddle of blood awaits?

Methinks it's all about the fear and intimidation with those cats (though the theory that River may be spreading some kind of disease or mutation of some kind has merit at this point).

mattro

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Thursday, January 2, 2003 1:42 AM

ZERO

Quote:
Originally posted by HKcavalier:
Leave no evidence? Leave no evidence! Six blood-soaked bodies rotting on the floor isn't evidence? 500 years in the future if they wanted to vaporize these people and leave no trace I think they could do it. What they did made a lot less sense than that.

Dead bodies cant talk. Mysterious blood-soaked bodies lying around leave more questions then answers, if you ask me. As for the vaporizing, this show isnt frickin' Star Trek. If they had whipped out a phaser or something, I think it would've been very cliche.

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-=ZERO=-
Check me out on WinMX, I have all the episodes in SVCD format. Any Firefly fans get free starts, just msg me.

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Thursday, January 2, 2003 6:41 AM

NADJA

Quote:
Did I dream this or did somebody on this board suggest that the Reavers might be failed proto-Rivers that the Alliance just really up and couldn't terminate so they just sent them out into the black and now THEY'RE BA-ACK

I haven't heard that theory before--I love it! But the only problem is that this theory allows for the possibility of River going Reaver, and I just couldn't take that!

Keeper of Companion Academy Training & Jayne's loogie

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Thursday, January 2, 2003 10:02 AM

CARDIE

Quote:

I haven't heard that theory before--I love it! But the only problem is that this theory allows for the possibility of River going Reaver, and I just couldn't take that!

"River" does sound an awful lot like "Reaver!" I thought this theory a bit far-fetched, but the sound-alike gives me pause.

If the Blue Glove guys are a rogue faction of the Alliance, how do we account for their connection to Blue Sun, which seems to be more Big Business than Big Government?

Cardie

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Thursday, January 2, 2003 6:42 PM

SENSOU

Quote:
Originally posted by Cardie:
If the Blue Glove guys are a rogue faction of the Alliance, how do we account for their connection to Blue Sun, which seems to be more Big Business than Big Government?

Cardie

They work for Blue Sun, and occasionally are contracted out by the government. Like computer repair men, only deadly.

Sensou
Sweet is love when all is sane
Sweet is death to end the pain
Cruel is death when all is well
Cruel is love when all is hell

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Friday, January 3, 2003 12:21 AM

GREYWOLFWOOD

the verse: if things were to go as planned I think...

Book - was a former Bounty Hunter.
Til he refused a job and his son was killed

Blue Hand Men - They're Robots

Jubel Early - not dead of course.
He'll probably have some storyline with Book if the show continues.

Niska - Hires Jubel Early to kill Mal.

REAVERS - The Big Bad

The Alliance - not a real problem, just an annoyance. Oh, except for the whole genetic engineering, human testing thing.
The alliance is actually "the federation" gone bad. They'll be a big war between them and the Reavers. All just for River, who is held up as a god.

Actually, I'm just spouting the first thing that comes to mind so I'm probably now just saying nonsense.
Oh well, good journey.

-GWW

-'Til the end of the World

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