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Originally posted by dietcoke:
Okay, I loved the old Star Trek (how old was I?), the first three Star Wars and the first five years of X-Files. But I am not a Sci/Fi fan.../B]

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dietcoke,
Diagnosis: you are in denial.
Treatment: therapy required
Prescription: watch more Firefly until denial has subsided

now go get that filled.

Keeper of Jayne's goggles. 8)

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Originally posted by zoid:


P.S.
zoid thinks he's got more than a little Lazarus Long mixed into his mindset. (Alliteration anyone?) Now where'd I put those faxes?

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Originally posted by dietcoke:
Okay, I loved the old Star Trek (how old was I?), the first three Star Wars and the first five years of X-Files. But I am not a Sci/Fi fan, so why do I love this show so much? Is it just me? Any other non-sci/fi people who love this show?

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Originally posted by zoid:
Q'pla, shinyhappyklin:

One of my favorite things about Firefly is that it is -- by my definition -- arguably the first true science fiction ever on television.

True science fiction isn't space battles and ray guns and hostile aliens. That's 'space opera'; with explosions of planets, and disintegration of alien lifeforms, and other action genre eye candy. True science fiction is an exploration of human nature, as it comes in contact with advancing technologies.

By prognosticating the ways in which human behavior -- both individually and societally -- will change as our technology grows more miraculous, we can also see the ways in which human behavior remains unchanged; this provides us with insight into what is basic about being human, stripped of the veneer of external adaptations.

The science fiction author first asks her/imself, "Where does current technology appear to be heading?" "What new technologies may follow from current cutting-edge scientific research?" With this vision in mind, s/he is ready to tackle the next phase of the story.

Technological progress is valued in Machine Age societies; such progress means working less and accomplishing more. However, there are frequently as many or more problems associated with technological advance as there are benefits: we have automobiles, but we get smog and other pollutions. We have 700 channels on television and a virtually infinite source of entertainments available on the Internet (which is becoming ubiquitous), but at what price to real human interaction? In addition, traditional societal institutions may be resistant to Technological Advancement, sometimes violently so. How have religious organizations reacted to the advances in medicine, cloning and T-cell research; how have religions all over the world reacted to the 'threat' of the empowerment of females? Are they necessarily wrong, simply because they are afraid of these radical changes? History supports their views that Change can be disastrously destabilizing. On the other hand, will we remain in an ethical backwater simply because we are afraid we are not equal to the challenge?

So, the science fiction author ponders these implications of her/is forecasted technological advances. S/He must try to determine the basic human animal response to these challenges, and craft a story that leaves the reader with a believably human character, albeit in extraordinary circumstances. The result -- if the story is good -- is a deeper insight into what is integral, what is important about being human.

Firefly looks at a future in which technological advancement has destroyed Earth-That-Was (it wasn't aliens, we know); what roots in our present day make that outcome believable? Technological advancement is not equally shared in the Firefly future; what evidence does the story present that logically explains why there is not a more even distribution of technological wealth? River is menaced by a number of foes, not the least of which is a highly advanced medical science that makes cerebral microsurgery possible; current medical procedure, extrapolated 500 years forward, makes it plausible. What are the implications for medical ethics, and for human patients? Then you've got the government, big business, the role of religion... The list, in Firefly, goes on and on.

But the most important question is this: Do we believe in these characters and their behavioral responses to the technologically advanced society in which they live? Are these characters believable people? For me, the answer is a resounding, "Yes!"

Star Trek, of which I know you are a devotee, skirts the concept of science fiction by removing most of the ethical considerations of scientific advancement. A good Star Trek story would be about the era which preceded the adoption of the Prime Directive. And I'm not just talking about actors dressed in 'retro' outfits, firing 'retro' weapons at aliens (as in 'Enterprise'). Rather, I'm talking about those encounters and outcomes -- the hard ethical lessons learned -- that drove humanity to invent the Directive. Even in its first and best incarnation, Star Trek viewers were presented with multiracial teams, women in roles of responsibility and the Prime Directive as a given. The interesting story -- and an untold one -- is how technological progress prompted societal adaptation and led to those worthy accomplishments.

The fact that Star Trek showed this country how racial and sexual diversity could work in our society, is not lost on this observer. I will always love it for that. Star Trek was great television, even if it did wimp out by not showing the atrocities that led to the Utopia it did show us.

...that and the fact that Kirk would f*ck anything that moved, as long as it bore a passing resemblance to a female. (zoid thus proves his point about human animal instincts, if basely so)


Analytically,

zoid

P.S.
I wonder how many alien 'trannies' Kirk ran into. Don't I remember him getting involved with some creature that was female or male based on the environment it was in? I know -- in the first episode ever aired -- the salt-sucking monster appeared to be a human female to the planetary scientist, McCoy and Kirk, and changed its appearance to human male while infiltrating the sick bay. (God, that's an old memory) And they was all grapplin' with it?!
_________________________________________________

WASH
Psychic, though? That sounds like
something out of science fiction!

ZOE
You live in a spaceship, dear.

WASH
So?

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These are illusions of popular history which a successful religion must promote: Evil men never prosper; only the brave deserve the fair; honesty is the best policy; actions speak louder than words; virtue always triumphs; a good deed is its own reward; any bad human can be reformed; religious talismans protect one from demon possession; only females understand the ancient mysteries; the rich are doomed to unhappiness . . .
From the Instruction Manual: Missionaria Protectiva
Children of Dune 66

Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristocratic forms. No government in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, government tends more and more to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class -- whether that class be hereditary royalty, oligarchs of financial empires, or entrenched bureaucracy.
Politics as Repeat Phenomenon
Bene Gesserit Training Manual
Children of Dune 190

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Originally posted by zoid:

I didn't say Firefly was the first sci-fi ever. I said it was the first true sci-fi on TV.

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Complicated. My interpretation:

It's all but officially admitted that the studio disliked having Michael O'Hare as the central character (not a big enough draw), so they pushed to have him replaced at the end of the first season.

Simultaneously jms decides that his central character has too much to "do" in story terms (run the station; go back in time to become the Minbari messiah; fall in love with and marry Delenn; discover, fight and defeat the Shadows; fight and defeat Earth; fight and defeat the telepaths; etc.), so he lets Sinclair take the Valen plot and dumps the rest on the new commander, Captain Sheridan. The Valen arc thus takes place with Sinclair conveniently off-screen as ambassador to Minbar (with the exception of the pivotal two-parter in the third season).

(Which of these desires - the studio's and jms's - was cause and which was effect is "undetermined" and your belief reflects your individual sympathies, IMO.)

Amusingly, Delenn was supposed to transform into a male Minbari, not a female Human, but they couldn't handle the technical side of making Mira Furlan's voice sound convincingly "male". So, does this mean Sinclair "turned gay" in jms's original outline? At this point I usually start questioning jms's much-vaunted "I first plotted out all five years in minute detail" claim, shrug, and go back to watching it. (Don't get me wrong, I love the show, it's probably my second-favorite TV show ever, but... huh.)

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Apparently, Mira performed both "the title roles in Sophocles Antigone" , so maybe she's more comfortable with gender-bending than one might presume...

Yes, I think (but can't confirm) that that item on her resume played a part in her getting the B5 gig. (I've just checked the relevant bit of the DVD commentary and it's not mentioned, but I'm sure I read it somewhere. Checking jmsnews.com could take forever, so I won't bother.)

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Originally posted by dietcoke:
Okay, I loved the old Star Trek (how old was I?), the first three Star Wars and the first five years of X-Files. But I am not a Sci/Fi fan, so why do I love this show so much? Is it just me? Any other non-sci/fi people who love this show?

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Originally posted by MacBaker:

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Originally posted by dietcoke:
Okay, I loved the old Star Trek (how old was I?), the first three Star Wars and the first five years of X-Files. But I am not a Sci/Fi fan, so why do I love this show so much? Is it just me? Any other non-sci/fi people who love this show?

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One of the reasons I couldn't contiune to watch the X-Files, was Skully's continued denial of Fox's beliefs, despite overwhelming evidence. You are in even bigger denial! You say you loved the old Star Trek, the first three Star Wars movies and the first five years of X-Files, and you love Firefly, yet you claim not to be a Sci-Fi fan? LMAO! Sorry, you have all of the symptoms! You have the desease! You ARE a Sci-Fi fan!You don't have hang out at conventions dressed as a Klingon, or have a Tribble on your night stand, to be a Sci-Fi fan! :)

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Originally posted by zoid:
...and won't respond so lengthily any further.

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Bullsh*t.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by MacBaker:

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Originally posted by dietcoke:
Okay, I loved the old Star Trek (how old was I?), the first three Star Wars and the first five years of X-Files. But I am not a Sci/Fi fan, so why do I love this show so much? Is it just me? Any other non-sci/fi people who love this show?

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One of the reasons I couldn't contiune to watch the X-Files, was Skully's continued denial of Fox's beliefs, despite overwhelming evidence. You are in even bigger denial! You say you loved the old Star Trek, the first three Star Wars movies and the first five years of X-Files, and you love Firefly, yet you claim not to be a Sci-Fi fan? LMAO! Sorry, you have all of the symptoms! You have the desease! You ARE a Sci-Fi fan!You don't have hang out at conventions dressed as a Klingon, or have a Tribble on your night stand, to be a Sci-Fi fan! :)

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Now, if you have to ask "What's a Tribble" , I might believe you're NOT a SciFi fan. But it's clear, there are degrees to which folks enjoy their SciFi. I'm almost 40 and attended my 1st DragonCon just past Sept. And the main reason I went was to check out our BDH and commune w/ other Browncoats.

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Originally posted by nedward:

Amusingly, Delenn was supposed to transform into a male Minbari, not a female Human, but they couldn't handle the technical side of making Mira Furlan's voice sound convincingly "male". So, does this mean Sinclair "turned gay" in jms's original outline?

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Does it change how you feel about me if I tell you that I am kneeling in the photo because I am saying my rosary??

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Originally posted by terryo:
What I am in denial of is that I like ~Westerns~.

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