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Originally posted by PurpleBelly:

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Originally posted by ReeQueen:
... why else would you mention "European sensibility" as if there was such a thing?), which I think is bloody ridiculous, to tell you the truth.

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sensibility: peculiar susceptibility to a pleasurable or painful impression (as from praise or a slight) -- often used in plural

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Used in this thread to emphasise that the opinion is not based on a moral stance alone. The choice of adjective is explained elsewhere; it is an acknowledgement that sensibility may vary with education and experience.

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[\B]I find this to be a form of geographical snobbery which, given the vast amount of information any individual can pick up from many different sources, is a little insular. You may not be judging, per se, but there is a sneaking suspicion that you find yourself, and your sensibility, just that much better than those of us who enjoy War Stories. Which, again, a bit silly to base such an opinion of us on a single episode of television.

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Originally posted by ReeQueen:

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Originally posted by PurpleBelly:

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sensibility: peculiar susceptibility to a pleasurable or painful impression (as from praise or a slight) -- often used in plural

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Which of these definitions do you mean?

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Originally posted by ReeQueen:
I find this to be a form of geographical snobbery which, given the vast amount of information any individual can pick up from many different sources, is a little insular.

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Originally posted by ReeQueen:
I am perfectly aware of my inability to be concise, please bear with me....

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Originally posted by ReeQueen:
And I always watch the history of torture shows, not to mention Wild West Tech and it's episode on hangings.

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Originally posted by jenchrissym:
And Purplebelly, in your reply to me you mentioned a reversed scene and your fears were correct, I have no idea what you were referring to.

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Originally posted by PurpleBelly:

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Originally posted by teraph:
This show is a drama. Bad things are going to happen. In this case, really bad things.

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There appears to be a consensus that the depiction of torture is acceptable entertainment. Is the level of violence which is acceptable dependent on the characters involved? Would Zoe and Kaylee have been acceptable victims?

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Thanks for saying this ReeQueen, part of what I was getting at before.

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Having European sensibilities, I genuinely do not understand the majority audience in this case.

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Sorry to possibly go O/T on this one but what do you mean by "European sensibilities" in this context because I'm European and not following you here at all?

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Ditto that Hotpoint, you just beat me to it. I am European and I don't get it either. Dying to know what "European sensibilities" are. I didn't think we had many left. How are they different from American ones (which I assume you must compare them to)?

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regardless of domicile, I have the sensibilities of a middle-aged pinko-liberal of moderate education without a TV

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I cannot really be said to speak on behalf of three quarters of a billion Europeans but personally I do not object to "torture as entertainment"* specifically because I am a Liberal and therefore believe there should be no limits of freedom as long as the exercise of that freedom does not infringe upon the liberty of others.

* simulated torture of course

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The definition in my original which is Merriam-Webster. You quote my original, but appear not to have read it. If you are asking me to choose another, I decline.

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Except that I can't resist this one. Does this sort of TV exist, or are you being ironic across the whole paragraph? The History Channel doesn't extend its reach to Scilly Sussex; one of those geographical things, I expect.

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Please follow the direction to elsewhere in this thread contained in my original. In addtion to an explanation of the choice of adjective, you will find a reply from a UK resident who fully approves of the depiction of torture as entertainment.

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Originally posted by ReeQueen:
Here is your definition:

PurpleBelly

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regardless of domicile, I have the sensibilities of a middle-aged pinko-liberal of moderate education without a TV

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Nice backpedalling, I give it an 8.5.

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Originally posted by ReeQueen:
I think what happened was that I was writing my post on the definition when you posted yours, which therefore showed up before my post, and thus I did not even see your post until this afternoon. I suppose that's really my bad, but I am disinclined to take the blame for this one. File it under Stuff Happens.

I wouldn't dream of asking you to pick another definition. Only you can know what you really mean, I was merely making a guess as to what your intention was in the original post.

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Originally posted by ReeQueen:

Hotpoint:

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I cannot really be said to speak on behalf of three quarters of a billion Europeans but personally I do not object to "torture as entertainment"* specifically because I am a Liberal and therefore believe there should be no limits of freedom as long as the exercise of that freedom does not infringe upon the liberty of others.

* simulated torture of course

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I agree. I absolutely believe in free speech, even unto the expression of things I find hurtful and hateful. I personally like to know what the bastards are thinking, and where they are.

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I'm also not favourable towards your language in stating that this same person "fully approves" of what you deem the "depiction of torture as entertainment."

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Originally posted by ReeQueen:
Yes, the History Channel has a show it repeats every several months on the history of torture, complete with visuals of torture implements and descriptions (with illustrations, no re-enactments) on how they were used.

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Originally posted by Hotpoint:
There is a difference in implied tone between my own words "do not object to" and your spin that I "approve" of torture as entertainment.

Toleration of something for artistic reasons is not the same as enthusiastic ringing endorsement of that concept on general principle.

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Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
And there's difference between approve and endorse. I spy a kettle

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Originally posted by Hotpoint:
Nice try but it was the tone of your post that equated the notion of acceptance with approval at the level of endorsement. If you don't think it does you need to read your own words more carefully.

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you will find a reply from a UK resident who fully approves of the depiction of torture as entertainment

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Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Must be a problem with the dialect

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Originally posted by Hotpoint:
I cannot really be said to speak on behalf of three quarters of a billion Europeans but personally I do not object to "torture as entertainment"* specifically because I am a Liberal and therefore believe there should be no limits of freedom as long as the exercise of that freedom does not infringe upon the liberty of others.
...
* simulated torture of course

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Originally posted by PurpleBelly:

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Originally posted by Hotpoint:
I cannot really be said to speak on behalf of three quarters of a billion Europeans but personally I do not object to "torture as entertainment"* specifically because I am a Liberal and therefore believe there should be no limits of freedom as long as the exercise of that freedom does not infringe upon the liberty of others.

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Seems non-empty to me

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Originally posted by maugwai:
Okay, Purplebelly, let's all get it straight on just how morally superior you really are. I gather then, that you find each of the following items offensive?

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Originally posted by Hotpoint:
Because I would not limit freedom of speech or expression does not mean I "fully approve" of everything anyone has to say merely that I'll tolerate it

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Originally posted by SimonWho:

Not least because of all the other questions you could ask of yourself in a similar vein.

*adopts rubbish German accent*

"So, you like this show set in the future, yes? Are you unhappy in the present? Do you wish to be hundred of miles and years away from here, yah? Tell me about your mother."

It's a TV show, to say we're there to enjoy torture is tenuous beyond belief.

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Originally posted by Cardie:
From PB's statements, I'd guess that this is where he's coming from. To tolerate "War Stories" is tantamount to approving of bear-baiting, or cockfighting, or giving thumbs down to the gladiators in the arena, even though no real pain is felt or real blood shed.

If this is the case, I have to say I don't understand it. There's a huge difference between being able to tolerate torture or human combat in a fictional setting, and being able to tolerate it in actual life. I for one won't watch things where the pain is real -- Jackie Chan tends to make me queasy, as he's still doing all his own stunts last I checked. Actually, if I know it's even based on reality, it bothers me -- war movies being the obvious example.

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PB, the way you have phrased all your questions about "the demographic" and "torture as entertainment," you have seemed to imply a) a moral deficiency on the part of those who do not for whatever reason turn away from those scenes in "War Stories" and b) to relate it to some alarming quality inherent in, at various points, non-Europeans, non-liberals, people younger than you, people who own televisions (and thus are under the sway of mass culture?)

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it may be that, regardless of domicile, I have the sensibilities of a middle-aged pinko-liberal of moderate education without a TV

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I guess the most obvious question I would have that I haven't seen asked (and sorry if I missed it & am repeating)is "How on earth did you watch/are you watching Firefly if you don't own a TV?"
It doesn't bother me if people have those "Kill Your TV" stickers -- hey, that's your right. But if you say you don't own a TV, then proceed to become a member of a website specifically dedicated to a fairly recent TV show, taking a screenname that's slang within that show's universe, a show that is only currently available on DVD, which you need a TV to view-- well, you've already undermined a large part of your image or arguement. Sure, you could be going to a friend's house to watch it, but that would be rather hypocritical,as if you were saying, "I only watch TV at other people's houses, cause I won't have an idiotbox in mine." (insert upturned nose here) That's like saying I'm not a smoker because I only bum smokes off of other people.

"I know your name, jackass!"

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Originally posted by Ankhagogo:
I guess the most obvious question I would have that I haven't seen asked (and sorry if I missed it & am repeating)is "How on earth did you watch/are you watching Firefly if you don't own a TV?"

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Originally posted by Ankhagogo:
But if you say you don't own a TV, then proceed to become a member of a website specifically dedicated to a fairly recent TV show, taking a screenname that's slang within that show's universe, a show that is only currently available on DVD, which you need a TV to view--

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Originally posted by Cardie:
PB, the way you have phrased all your questions about "the demographic" and "torture as entertainment," you have seemed to imply a) a moral deficiency on the part of those who do not for whatever reason turn away from those scenes in "War Stories" and b) to relate it to some alarming quality inherent in, at various points, non-Europeans, non-liberals, people younger than you, people who own televisions (and thus are under the sway of mass culture?), or "The majority audience" (who are by definition not those of refined sensibilities, because refined sensibilities are always the attribute of the few?)

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Originally posted by Cardie:
--Does taking any one of the above positions on torture in the Jossverse relate to one's political beliefs, age, or place of residence. I'd have to say that it is much more a case of individual sensibilities. Had PB simply said, "I couldn't bear watching those scenes again, how did you others manage?" we would have had a very different thread.

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Originally posted by Cardie:
I don't think I'm the only one on this board who took your original statement as insinuating, "Of course, I'm not one of those yahoo Yanks with their vulgar, violence-saturated popular culture who just re-elected that dangerous, stupid cowboy George W. Bush."

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Originally posted by Cardie:
As to whether the Purplebelly construct has anything to do with who is really posting messages under that screen name, of course none of us can be certain about that.

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Originally posted by PurpleBelly:

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EDIT: that's not to say I don't own a TV

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What you said was "it may be that, regardless of domicile, I have the sensibilities of a middle-aged pinko-liberal of moderate education without a TV", which would lead one to believe that you yourself do not own a TV. But if this is an incorrect assumption, then that would lead me to assume also that you're neither middle-aged nor a pinko-liberal, have less or more than a "moderate education", and are not European, geographically or biologically. Oh, and that your posts on this thread are all a big wind-up.

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I use one of those computer thingees

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I would find not owning a TV yet watching shows on your computer more hypocritical than not owning a TV yet watching shows at a friend's house. People who are against TV are not against the actual physical piece of technology that the media comes through, they object to the media itself (which, admittedly, is mostly crap). My dad hates current TV programming -- in fact destroyed our TV when I was small -- but he does have one now to watch movies, etc. But he rarely, if ever, watches anything but tapes or DVDs.
BUT he does have TV shows on DVD/tape. If he's watching a show produced for television broadcast,he's still watching TV. And even if he were watching it on a computer, he would still be watching TV -- he's watching a TV show. He's just not watching it on a TV. It's not as if that, in owning a computer, you don't have access to more total crap than is available through the television industry. Implying that you don't have a TV is just trying to be elitist. :sanctimonious:

Oh, there's not a smiley for that?

"I know your name, jackass!"

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Originally posted by Ankhagogo:
... that would lead me to assume also that you're neither middle-aged nor a pinko-liberal, have less or more than a "moderate education", and are not European, geographically or biologically.

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Originally posted by Ankhagogo:
I would find not owning a TV yet watching shows on your computer more hypocritical than not owning a TV yet watching shows at a friend's house.

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Originally posted by Ankhagogo:
My dad ...

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Originally posted by Gorramreavers:
31 M

Maine, USA

ReeQueen


"..it is my very favorite gun."

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Originally posted by maugwai:
If PB thinks that's immoral, so be it.

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Originally posted by ReeQueen:
Not that I don't believe PurpleBelly is sincere ...

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