Book Is A Monastic Warrior by BrowncoatMonk

1)When Book says that he's been out of the world for a long time, he's talking about 20+ years(probably more like 30+), think about what he says to Kayleigh in Serenity, not the 6 years ago that the war was.
2)Also, he has been following this chaste/celebate life since he was a teenager--think about the likelihood of somebody in the military completely controlling one's sexual urges since for as long as that would take to get to that high ranking status, or to even get married as most militaries have an unspoken rule to get to high rank of being/appearing respectible (i.e. not a potential embarrassment) which includes being married.
3)His combat skills were way too sharp to have been left over from 20+ years prior, including hand-to-hand, and hip shooting a rifle and accurate hitting knees--that would take an exceptional marksman in constant practice. As a side note he chose a target/hunting rifle even though it was an inclose battle. Not an automatic or a pistol which is what normally be used for that sort of combat.
4)The church is clearly very powerful in the Verse and has been powerful since the early days of colonization, hence the high presence of Church ideals and people in the settled worlds. Powerful entities (good and bad) need intelligence about their domain/sphere of control.
5)Monastical orders are things that have and need long histories to be useful (for whatever purpose that might be, also the ones in Western Europe have evolved since their foundings). I forgot another aspect earlier is that as the language of the Verse is influenced and permeated by the language of China, why not by some of the monastical traditions (even the rare ones) of the Eastern world. To put it in media terms combine the Franciscans of Dumas (modeled after the ones of his day versus that of the Sun King's time) and the Shaolin monks of Kung Fu the tv series. An order that's been around a long time (probably 200-300 years+) and is an important part to a powerful Church would command a lot of respect (maybe by imperial edict) hence the concern/fear of the Alliance officers.

Browncoat Monk

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Wednesday, January 15, 2003 1:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrowncoatMonk:
He has never had sex. Ever.
--evidence: 'I'm not a grandpa, I've never married' implying he doesn't have sex outside of marriage and so he has never had the opportunity to have sex.

The other evidence here being his conversation with Jayne about how, despite never having had sex, he's "for the most part" still all there.

I hadn't considered that when I made my own theory thread titled "The Deal with Book".

Hmmm.

Our guy Book is quite the paradox, isn't he?

Maybe he was a...part of the problem is that we've been given so little (relatively speaking) information about the distinctions between worlds in Firefly. That's why it was supposed to run 6 or 7 years...

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 6:26 AM

I think that is the most important piece of info that has been ignored in all of the other threads about Book. Yet it is significant.

Oh well, maybe Joss/ME will do a book series.

Browncoat Monk

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 7:34 AM

LOSTANGEL

I think you are jumping to conclusions. When he said he never got married...he never got married. Also, we don't know how long he was in the monastery. Just because he was in a stricter sect where they are celibate, that doesn't mean that he was a holy man from childhood.

There were not enough scenes devoted to fleshing out Book. I still think that given time we would have seen that a Shepard was just his last occupation, and only a small part of who he is.

______________________
Lost Angel

WASH: Psychic, though? That sounds like something out of science fiction.
ZOE: We live in a space ship, dear.
WASH: So?

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:23 AM

He may have been injured (nerve damage etcetera) so he can't have sex. Maybe in combat or the like, but definitely a long time ago. But he does make it very clear that there is NO chance that he is a grandpa.

Browncoat Monk

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:13 AM

ILOVEJAYNE

Interesting theory. I had kinda thought he was talking about circumcision.

I like the whole warrior-priest concept. It would explain why a Shepherd knows so much about crime.

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 10:23 AM

Another thing I want to mention about Book's knowledge about crime and the such. He has very current information about that subject. It takes a lot of military/police type 'intelligence' research to stay current in the world of crime. In real life drug kingpins (and the like) get killed by police or other rivals, get arrested, get pushed out to smaller and smaller domains ('turf'), etc. Think of his (implied) knowledge of Niska. Also he mentions in 1x03 (Mrs. Reynolds), speaking about 'Carrion Houses', that (not exact sorry) 'the new ones just stun the ...'. This is not something he would know from a long time ago (i.e. before going in to the monastic life), clearly since he's refering to current states. So he had some sort of recent intelligence about the state of the frontier. My theory is that he got it from the church.

Browncoat Monk

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 10:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrowncoatMonk:
My theory is that he got it from the church.

Browncoat Monk

Do you mean that the church he is in works for the Alliance or in crime?

Sensou
The difference betwwen sports fans and sci-fi fans is that sci-fi fans have never trashed a train, booed Canada, or torn a man apart limb from limb.

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 11:30 AM

SERGEANTX

double post sorry.. :)

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 11:30 AM

SERGEANTX

I can't remember where I saw it posted, but my favorite Book theory is that he was somekind of Alliance operative during the war. This would explain his familiarity with combat and vice in general. The really interesting idea in this theory was that he had sort of an opposite experience from Mal.

Mal fought the good fight, trusting his faith that being on the right side was enough.... when it wasn't he lost his faith (and I think that's more a lost faith in general, as well as religion but that's another topic).

The idea is that Book was on the winning side, but saw and perhaps did things that he just couldn't live with. Perhaps he was even at the Battle of Serenity as well... anyway to deal with the ugliness he saw, and was perhaps even involved in, he turned to religion as penance. (anyone here seen 'The Mission'?) Five years later the Church sees him as reformed and encourages him to walk in the world for awhile.

This would explain his knowledge of combat, his free health insurance with the Alliance as well as his knowledge of the Battle of Serenity, for those of you who saw the original unaired pilot.
It also makes a very interesting counterpoint to Mal's story.

If the originator of this theory is still with us, please take credit!

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:07 PM

Being a member of a powerful church doesn't necessarily mean that he works for the Alliance. Does the Pope work for Italy?

Browncoat Monk

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Friday, January 17, 2003 6:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:

This would explain his knowledge of combat, his free health insurance with the Alliance as well as his knowledge of the Battle of Serenity, for those of you who saw the original unaired pilot.
It also makes a very interesting counterpoint to Mal's story.

If the originator of this theory is still with us, please take credit!

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

What if Book was a crime lord, somewhere between Badger and Niska, who fought for the Browncoats because the Alliance interfered too much with his business? That would explain his knowledge of crime, weaponry, and the war. He could have found God after some horrible battle, probably not Serenity, or after the war in general.
As for the ID card, is there anything else linking him to the Alliance? It is very possible that the card is stolen or has been illeagally modified. The Alliance is most likely so secure in its power that such an idea would not occur to a ship commander, and even if he did, the margin of error would be enough to have him treat Book anyways.

Sensou
The difference between sports fans and sci-fi fans is that sci-fi fans have never trashed a train, booed Canada, or torn a man apart limb from limb.

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Friday, January 17, 2003 6:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrowncoatMonk:
Being a member of a powerful church doesn't necessarily mean that he works for the Alliance. Does the Pope work for Italy?

Browncoat Monk

Sorry, I'm stupid. I still don't understand if you mean the church is working for the Alliance, against the Alliance, or if it works for/against the Alliance depending on how much it will profit.

Sensou
The difference betwwen sports fans and sci-fi fans is that sci-fi fans have never trashed a train, booed Canada, or torn a man apart limb from limb.

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Friday, January 17, 2003 9:33 PM

Quote:

If the originator of this theory is still with us, please take credit!

That was me, Sarge, in the thread, "The Deal with Book". What I forgot was his life-long lack of sex -- a real monkey-wrench in my theory -- unless there's some sort of bizarre warrior caste that practices celibacy...

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Saturday, January 18, 2003 1:57 AM

SERGEANTX

Yeah, I don't get why everyone is saying 'life-long'. All I got from OIS is that he never has sex now. But not as in he's never had it. I'll watch it again. hmmmm

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Saturday, January 18, 2003 5:36 AM

CARDIE

Book is insistent that he never married, so never had children, so never could be anyone's grandpa. I'm assuming that they have pretty good contraception available in the Alliance, and if there are strong regulations against having children if you aren't married, then this says nothing about whether or not Book had sex before taking a vow of celibacy.

The real question we should be asking is why he chose not to marry and father children.

Cardie

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Saturday, January 18, 2003 5:49 AM

Quote:
SergeantX wrote:
Saturday, January 18, 2003 01:57
Yeah, I don't get why everyone is saying 'life-long'. All I got from OIS is that he never has sex now. But not as in he's never had it. I'll watch it again. hmmmm

...and once again, I'm right there with you, Sarge. It's in the teaser to OIS, so, pretty easy to find...

It was the best day ever.

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Saturday, January 18, 2003 6:07 AM

I mean the Church works for the Church, and also hopefully for the spiritual salvation (if not the physical salvation) of its followers (or all men, depends on how embracing they are). This is not a given--think of the medieval Catholic Church (well really into the late 1800's even).

I said what I said, because people are relegating the idea of an organized Church to a mere bureau of the Alliance, placed between the Department of Reconciliation with Secessionist Planets and the Department of Reaver Diplomatic Relations.

Is the concept of a strong organized religious body too out of line here?

Browncoat Monk

Ain't no place I can be since I found Serenity...

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Saturday, January 18, 2003 6:09 AM

But contraception can fail which would lead to the possibility of being a grandpa. A good point though.

Browncoat Monk

Ain't no place I can be since I found Serenity...

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Saturday, January 18, 2003 8:47 AM

Quote:
SergeantX wrote:
Saturday, January 18, 2003 01:57
Yeah, I don't get why everyone is saying 'life-long'. All I got from OIS is that he never has sex now. But not as in he's never had it. I'll watch it again. hmmmm

OK, second reply to Sarge's query, only now I've relistened (and transcribed) the scene with Jayne & Book:

JAYNE:
So like, never?

BOOK:
Well, no.

JAYNE:
Not ever, never?

BOOK:
Some orders allow Shepherds to marry, But I follow a narrower path.

JAYNE:
But you still got the urge...they don't...cut it off or nothin'...

BOOK:
No. I'm more or less intact. I just directed my energy elsewhere.

JAYNE:
Like masturbatin'?

BOOK:
I hope you're not thinking of taking orders yourself?

JAYNE:
Heh! Yeah, that'll be the day.
(A beat, then)
I got stupid. The money was too good.

BOOK:
I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?

So, what does this scene tell us? Are they talking about marriage, and then sex, two separate topics? Does Jayne's question imply that there's a Mrs. Cobb floating around out there (maybe literally)?

If they're talking about marriage, then Book is NOT a life-long virgin as I and others have presumed. And if that's the case, if we're just talking about his sexual habits at the abbey, well, then my original theory about Book's past starts looking pretty good...

It was the best day ever.

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Saturday, January 18, 2003 10:19 AM

CARDIE

The above conversation seems to deal only with the sexual practices of those who have taken orders as a Shepherd, leaving their sexual experience prior to taking orders out of the equation. I do find "more or less intact" quite intriguing. Does Book mean that he was circumcised? That he suffered an injury to his private parts?

I hope there's some way to find out his secret!

Cardie

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Saturday, January 18, 2003 10:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cardie:
I do find "more or less intact" quite intriguing. Does Book mean that he was circumcised? That he suffered an injury to his private parts?

I hope there's some way to find out his secret!

Cardie

I'm thinking circumcision, common enough practice in various religions...or nothing different at all. I think our Mr. Book has been more than a little coy with us all.

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Friday, January 24, 2003 5:08 PM

GREYBARD

Of course, there's one extremely simple possible answer to any of these question.

Book might be lying.

Now, I'm not saying that he is. The church millitant idea is cool and possible, and I like it. Just like I like the Alliance spy or ex-Alliance General theories.

But everything we know of Book's past is hearsay, and comes from Book. So really, nothing is for sure except that which we see on screen. Thus opening us to even wider speculation!

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Saturday, January 25, 2003 11:09 AM