Sincerest form of flattery by SergeantX

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Sincerest form of flattery

POSTED BY: SERGEANTX
UPDATED: Friday, January 17, 2003 21:21
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VIEWED: 3434
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Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:16 PM

I saw a link to this a little while ago on Buffistas. I don't recall seeing it here. Interesting as well as annoying.

http://www.filmjerk.com/archives/0212/021208galactica.html

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:40 PM

LOSTANGEL

yes, I see the similarities....
Too bad no one in a position to do anything about it did.

______________________
Lost Angel

WASH: Psychic, though? That sounds like something out of science fiction.
ZOE: We live in a space ship, dear.
WASH: So?

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:43 PM

STRAYCAT

Exactly the same reaction as you.

The thing that gets me is - they're describing this way of shooting a show as if it were a novel idea - whereas we've all watched it being done superbly by ME in Firefly.

Wonder if they've seen the show.

Well - that's mostly Firefly's approach. I can't imagine it being bettered. If the Galactica lot do better Firefly good luck to 'em - and I hope they don't get screwed over like Firefly, Farscape or any of the others.

My gut feeling is they won't even get close - I can't justify that, but something's really missing there...

But Serenity was still first.

Andy (possessive and proud of it)

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 1:17 PM

SERGEANTX

Personally I think we'll see a lot more of this. People in the industry who pay attention (surely there must be few) know how good Firefly was, and they'll be likely to try and incorporate its innovations in their own 'original' work. Its a tribute of sorts, hmmmmm, not a very satisfying one though.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 5:56 PM

SELNYC

This Hollywood doing business as usual. Instead of allowing fresh and innovative programming, the suits have always found it easier to copy some else's formula.

Look at all the clones of Friends, Everybody Loves Raymond or NYPD Blue (most of these actually copied by Bochco himself).

Joss has even said some of the shows that influenced him as a writer were Hill Street Blues and Wiseguy. Its not difficult to see this in his shows, especially in terms of story-arc structure.

I'm a big fan of Alias, but it doesn't take too much squinting to see that this is clearly a Buffy clone, with a change in setting. A constant threat from forces in the world-wide espionage community is not so different from a constant threat from the forces of hell.

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Thursday, January 16, 2003 10:43 PM

STRAYCAT

Ouch - I was tired when I typed my last post - on rereading, it makes very little sense

Quote:
Originally posted by selnyc:
This Hollywood doing business as usual. Instead of allowing fresh and innovative programming, the suits have always found it easier to copy some else's formula.

But what so often happens is that they force said formula onto writers and directors that don't feel it at gut level, and shows that it doesn't suit - and then you have another mediocre show that maybe could have been good.

Quote:

I'm a big fan of Alias, but it doesn't take too much squinting to see that this is clearly a Buffy clone, with a change in setting. A constant threat from forces in the world-wide espionage community is not so different from a constant threat from the forces of hell.

Ya know - I've seen all of Alias season 1, and hadn't seen that analogy - it works well. But they did have the sense to personalise Alias with a few distinct signatures of its own - so it does feel like a very different show

Of course - the cleverest of those - and at times the most annoying - is the constant cliffhangers... as a device to get the audience to come back and find out what happens next, it's one of the old tried and tested greats (I first saw this on the old Flash Gordon series) - but BOY is it draining...

That's one gag that I hope not to see copied on many other series...

Andy

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Friday, January 17, 2003 2:21 PM

SELNYC

Quote:
Ya know - I've seen all of Alias season 1, and hadn't seen that analogy - it works well. But they did have the sense to personalise Alias with a few distinct signatures of its own - so it does feel like a very different show

Joss has said about Buffy Sommers (paraphrase) that you can't hurt this girl physically, but the wrong word from the right person makes her crumble. Sydney Bristow works pretty much the same way. I didn't watch more than one or two episodes, but it appeared to me that Dark Angel tried to use that same formula.

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Friday, January 17, 2003 3:33 PM

GUAILO

Well, I think BUffy as a concept was created with that notion in mind: teenage girl vs. evil, just like an occult secret agent. The similarities are superficial, but I think more enhanced because both BUffy and Alias have female leads that work with a close-knit group to solve all their problems against the greater evil.

The huge conglomerate of SD groups in Alias is watched over by the small group of über-baddies like Sloan which is call The Allience. Firefly had the Allience too....hmmmm....

To me, the prospectus sounds a lot like another series that butted it's proverbial head against the wall for season after season only to be canceled, shuffled around and eventually subdued into TV history and syndication.

Babylon 5.

In other words, I wish them the best of luck, but people have tried this before and it doesn't seem to work. Networks are just not open to the expense of maintaining a long-term SciFI series. "Reality TV" is so much more palatable because (A) people watch it because they don't have to think and (B) it's friggin cheap to make. And that's pretty much the same sad truth that creamed Firefly, Farscape and countless others (anyone remember a show with D.B. Sweeny called Strange Luck?)

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Friday, January 17, 2003 3:44 PM

HKCAVALIER

It really sounds like they back-engineered this from watching Firefly, doesn't it? I don't think it's gonna work though.

I think the problem they're gonna run into when they try to do sci-fi naturalism is the basic larger than life vastly mythic story of the progenitors of the human race trekking across the unknown to find a home they've only dreamed of blah, blah, blah. Also, people trekking across unknown country in hope of finding a new home, naturalistically speaking, is pretty dull: "Day thirteen: saw eight tumble weeds today."

The gritty underworld of outlaws and criminals in Firefly lends itself to naturalistic treatment. It's precisely Badger's lack of mythic resonance that makes him dangerous. You have no idea who the guy is really. Friend, foe, useful, dangerous? It all depends. I mean the worlds of Firefly are hundreds of years old and the socio-political issues complicated and mysterious.

How much mystery or levels of intrigue can you drum up on a wagon train? "C'mander Adama, some the folks in back don't think we should go through this here quazar. They're a-thinkin' mebbe it'd be a smoother ride through that gravity well over yonder." "Sorry, Starbuck m' boy, just who do they think's runnin' this chere outfi-yut, anyhoo?"

And I think about the vaguely egyptian motifs of the original series that seemed to suggest that the ancient egyptian culture grew directly from the culture of these spacefarers. I thought that was a nice idea, little cheesy, but nice. Made me think of that whole "Search for Ancient Astronauts" thing. All very mythic. So what are they gonna do? Cut all that and have folks wearing jeans and t-shirts? But that wouldn't make any sense.

If they wanna do "Science Fiction Naturalism" so bad I got some writers and some gorgeous sets and some the best actors you'll ever see, hell, I even got ten or twelve episodes to get 'em started!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, January 17, 2003 6:32 PM

KETHRYVERIS

I loved "Strange Luck" (not to mention D.B. Sweeney)!!!! Fox has a bad history of cancelling interesting sf. Remember "VR5" and "Alien Nation"? They cancelled "Alien Nation" in the middle of a cliff hanger. Yes I know they did movies but really!

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Friday, January 17, 2003 9:15 PM

SELNYC

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
...The gritty underworld of outlaws and criminals in Firefly lends itself to naturalistic treatment. It's precisely Badger's lack of mythic resonance that makes him dangerous. You have no idea who the guy is really. Friend, foe, useful, dangerous? It all depends. I mean the worlds of Firefly are hundreds of years old and the socio-political issues complicated and mysterious...

Badger is a good example of the banality of evil; when you think about it, both Buffy and Angel are rather matter-of-fact about all these vampires and demons walkin' around.

Quote:
...And I think about the vaguely egyptian motifs of the original series that seemed to suggest that the ancient egyptian coulture grew directly from the coulture of these spacefarers...

I liked the Egyptian references in the old show, too; I kinda wanted them to do different influences in all the different colonies, y'know, Roman, Native American, Norse, etc. I mean, we're all Firefly fans, we're used to the combo of SF & western, right? I also wanted to see some of these influences on other planets in the Firefly solar system.

And, hey, everyone's speaking Chinese, so where are all the Asian people?

It was the best day ever.

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Friday, January 17, 2003 9:21 PM

SELNYC

Quote:
Originally posted by Guailo:
Well, I think BUffy as a concept was created with that notion in mind: teenage girl vs. evil, just like an occult secret agent. The similarities are superficial, but I think more enhanced because both BUffy and Alias have female leads that work with a close-knit group to solve all their problems against the greater evil.

No, what I was saying only refers to the characters of Buffy & Sydney -- I would not try to draw any sort of parallels between specific characters on each show. That both major characters are going up against forces much larger than themselves is the way both of these fantasy shows work.

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