Club Confused by KaySky

Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
I've always wanted to double post

Congrats on the double post!

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 12:26 PM

KELLAINA

The Land Before Time 11 - Invasion of the Tinysauruses.

Why?!

Why is it still the land before time? When will time begin? How many sequels will it take before it's The Land of Time? Or The Land. (Or maybe 'This Land'

)

Not to mention the whole issue of the tinysauruses. If they're tiny how are they invading? Won't they get stepped on?

I know I probably shouldn't question a kids movie, but I saw a commercial for it and it's just bothering me.

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 12:27 PM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by KaySky:
Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
I've always wanted to double post

Congrats on the double post!

funny, I do that a lot...
what with being all impatient and accidently clicking on the 'post my response' button too much....

(I'll try to avoid that this time though)

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 12:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
I hear folks say that all the time, but when it comes down to practical application...the blondes are always sitting by themselves at the bar, wandering alone in the store, or flitting around with girlfriends. I think guys prefer the auburn and russet tresses of the world.

For me it's not that simple. Hair color has to match all the rest: complexion, hair style, clothes, attitude.

Blonde may be the quickest to catch the eye, but it doesn't guarantee a second glance.

--Bleyddyn

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:01 PM

PERIDIDDLE

Quote:
Originally posted by Kellaina:
The Land Before Time 11 - Invasion of the Tinysauruses.

Why?!

Why is it still the land before time? When will time begin? How many sequels will it take before it's The Land of Time? Or The Land. (Or maybe 'This Land')

Not to mention the whole issue of the tinysauruses. If they're tiny how are they invading? Won't they get stepped on?

I know I probably shouldn't question a kids movie, but I saw a commercial for it and it's just bothering me.

Because....because....Littlefoot knocks all these flowers out of this tree and the little dinosaurs eat them all! *Gasp!* At least, that's what Amazon tells me.

I don't know. It's Land Before Time. They stopped making sense past the 5th one...but the hardcore fans (ie - those that grew up with the little dinosaurs) are forced to keep watching. And I'm waiting for humans to appear, I really, REALLY am.

"Bwaa...it's kind of a warrior...strikes fear into the hearts of..."

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by perididdle:
I don't know. It's Land Before Time. They stopped making sense past the 5th one...but the hardcore fans (ie - those that grew up with the little dinosaurs) are forced to keep watching. And I'm waiting for humans to appear, I really, REALLY am.

*snort* That is so cute! hardcore fans...The Land Before Time. You know what my fave animated film is....Aristocats. No idea why. Just is.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
Can we not revel in our cyber-love?

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:10 PM

PERIDIDDLE

Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
Quote:
Originally posted by perididdle:
I don't know. It's Land Before Time. They stopped making sense past the 5th one...but the hardcore fans (ie - those that grew up with the little dinosaurs) are forced to keep watching. And I'm waiting for humans to appear, I really, REALLY am.

*snort* That is so cute! hardcore fans...The Land Before Time. You know what my fave animated film is....Aristocats. No idea why. Just is.

I tell you. We're out there. We just... *Eyes her surroundings. Pushes her tapes of movies II through IV under the desk* Usually try to hide it.

Yes. I am 13 years old, and I am a hardcore Land Before Time fan...though I have five movies I need to catch up on. It's not my favorite animated film, though the first one was ACTUALLY kinda good. The Lion King still wins my heart. But, that's just me.

"Bwaa...it's kind of a warrior...strikes fear into the hearts of..."

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:17 PM

okay, I admit I saw the first one...I didn't know there were four more! wow.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
Can we not revel in our cyber-love?

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:19 PM

PERIDIDDLE

Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
okay, I admit I saw the first one...I didn't know there were four more! wow.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
Can we not revel in our cyber-love?

Four more?

*Laughs*

This year will bring us to movie number twelve.

"Bwaa...it's kind of a warrior...strikes fear into the hearts of..."

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:37 PM

Here's one I hope somebody can answer for me:
Why do people find it so much easier to hate than to love each other?

I've been trying to find the answer to that one for several decades now, so if somebody could give me even an approximate answer, I'd sure appreciate it...

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 4:26 PM

Here's another dish of confused business...

Why is it that when I put a pair of socks into the wash and by the time I pull all the clothes out of the dryer, I only have a single sock? Is there a one-footed lint monster who likes to steal socks? And if there is, why doesn't he just take both? Sure he's only got one foot, but if he takes both, he'd have an extra pair.

Why do I think about these things?

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 4:41 PM

COZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:

Here's one I hope somebody can answer for me:
Why do people find it so much easier to hate than to love each other?

I've been trying to find the answer to that one for several decades now, so if somebody could give me even an approximate answer, I'd sure appreciate it...

Respectfully,

zoid

If. If: we could only learn the trick of random acts of kindness.

Naively,
cozen
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

This day keeps getting better and better.

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 6:03 PM

CASUALTY

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:

Here's one I hope somebody can answer for me:
Why do people find it so much easier to hate than to love each other?

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Well now you see, this entirely depends on who you are asking me to love! Some people just don't seem to 'get' me. I'm not sure why, I think I'm pretty nice.

On another note, I went to buy and inflateable Dalek today from the bookstore. My friend who I went with told me I was a geek! Why? She has a blow up chair! It's kinda the same thing. Right?

"If nothing we do means anything then the only thing that means anything is what we do"

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 7:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by KaySky:
Why is it that when I put a pair of socks into the wash and by the time I pull all the clothes out of the dryer, I only have a single sock?

Many years ago in a biology class I solved this mystery...I discovered a Lentel colony. They are small fuzzy creatures that need heat to procreate and prefer to live in utilty rooms. Their diet consists mostly of socks. They are fascinating creatures.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
Can we not revel in our cyber-love?

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 7:39 PM

THEREALME

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:

Here's one I hope somebody can answer for me:
Why do people find it so much easier to hate than to love each other?

I've been trying to find the answer to that one for several decades now, so if somebody could give me even an approximate answer, I'd sure appreciate it...

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Wow! I get a chance to answer one for Zoid, the Great Philosopher!

Here goes:

Love really needs trust to exist. Trust leaves one vulerable. Nobody likes to be vulerable.

Hate is easier, and does not leave you vulnerable.

It just leaves you alone.

The Real Me, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

(The Real Me cannot currently receive messages from this site; he is not ignoring you. But he CAN receive e-mail at realme@pcibroadband.net.)

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:33 PM

Casualty wrote:

Quote:
Well now you see, this entirely depends on who you are asking me (to?) love! Some people just don't seem to 'get' me. I'm not sure why, I think I'm pretty nice...

Maybe this was the wrong time for me to get all terse, hmmm? I wasn't being a pie-in-the-sky, hug-a-tree sentimentalist. I was being literal. Human beings seem to genuinely feel uncomfortable with the very idea of loving others, including random strangers (with a nod to cozen). But they are perfectly happy to truly despise an unfamiliar face on first sight.

This is confounding, because my experience has shown that humans are generally capable of deeper love than they are hatred. It just appears they are quicker to hate -- if not as deeply -- than they are to either give or accept love. (NB: Substitute the term 'friendship', if the reference to 'love' -- even in a hypothetical way -- leaves you cringing). Is it about distrust, or fear of having their love rejected or abused?

Will Rogers humbly said, "I never met a man I didn't like." While I won't go that far, I can honestly say I have never hated anyone, not even superficially. I always try to find the good in everyone I happen upon. The worst scenario I've ever encountered was having to avoid someone because we just weren't going to get along for whatever reason; but, I never hated them, and if they ever needed help with a computer or moving house or building a deck, I happily pitched in like I would for anybody else, without any expectation of it changing our dynamic afterward (although I always hoped for it).

Yet, I hear people casually confess to truly hating another person all the time. And it's not just another word for 'dislike', either; they're being forthright. And that's not even including those who spew the most vile invective about others all across the Internet; I'm not talking about flame wars, I mean full frontal, tumid hatred.

So maybe someone who reads this -- who hates somebody else -- could explain that process(?) to me. Was it like hate at first sight, or did you start out as 'just friends' and then one magical night it bloomed into hate? I'm being flippant (because that's just me), but I'm actually dead serious: How do you know when you hate another? Do you recall crossing the line between being disappointed or hurt by the other's behavior, and moving into 'seeing red' every time you saw or thought of that other person?

I have family members whom I know are loving people, yet they passionately hate at least one person of their acquaintance. Just as a single example from among many: My wife's got at least 4 people she simply can't stand to be around, without becoming physically and emotionally agitated to an alarming extent. I find the concept of hating someone so viscerally, both totally alien and more than a little unsettling...

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
I'm certain you are a perfectly lovely person, Casualty. That's kind of a corollary of my original question: Why would anyone hate you? Because you done 'em wrong? We all do each other wrong; it's part of the human condition. Because you're different? I'm convinced that being an individual is everyone's responsibility.

Like I said, I've been observing this (to me) irrational behavior for many, many (many) years, and I just can't get my head wrapped around it. But I'd like to understand.
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:47 PM

NEEDLESEYE

Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
Quote:
Originally posted by KaySky:
On the subject of men, do they really like blonds better?
... I think guys prefer the auburn and russet tresses of the world.

I wanted to say, been a red head before.
It's a man magnet.

Also, I was once in the presence of an indepth conversation by several men commenting that they would all prefer auburn/red over blonde.

On the confusion topic...
Why do people let their children stand up in shopping carts or leave the kid in the cart and just walk off. Theres little signs on every cart that says do not leave child unattended, standing, etc.
Where's the common sense?

AND why is it where ever you go to the store theres candy at the register. I decided that store management just wants little kids to get in trouble. Kids cry and say they want the candy, parents get mad at them, argument ensues. I just wonder what ratio of kids get into arguments with parents about candy at the check out. Would it make store owners quit putting it there? Nah!

Keeper of Jayne's goggles. 8)

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:27 PM

On a lighter note ('though not entirely unrelated to my not understanding hatred, I think):

Remember those pictures of random noise that (supposedly) had 3D pictures of trains or teapots encoded in them? You were supposed to stand 3-4 feet back and unfocus your vision -- or focus on a point a foot behing the image -- and then you'd see this bird or beagle materialize out of the random dots and blobs. These monstrosities were all the rage in the malls about 10(?) years ago, based on the original work by Tomás de Torquemada. (NB: You can probably still get them at Spencer Gifts or head shops.)

Well, I never saw anything except dots and blobs, no matter what I tried, and I gave up on the effort altogether after about 20 minutes of fruitless visual contortions. I'm convinced the whole thing was a cruel hoax and that anyone who said they could see the kittens or kites (oohing and ahhing all the while) was only afraid of being labeled a boob for not seeing them. Kind of like the Emperor's clothing that only the truly enlightened could see.

I am either the little boy who proclaimed the Emperor nude or the boob, I guess. Did any of y'all ever see anything in them?

Illusionally,

zoid

P.S.
I see castles and cats in passing cumulus clouds, all the time.
_________________________________________________

"No one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!" Monty Python's Flying Circus

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Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:32 PM

needleseye wrote, in part:

Quote:
Where's the common sense?

While you're at it, why do they call it 'common sense'? The problem with common sense is that it is so exceedingly uncommon.

I'm thinking this is one of those 'jumbo shrimp' things...

v/r,
-zed

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 12:42 AM

thatweirdgirl wrote:

Quote:
*snort* That is so cute! hardcore fans...The Land Before Time. You know what my fave animated film is....Aristocats. No idea why. Just is.

Hey I love the Aristocrats!!! Personally I think it's because of the hand drawn quality - it gives it so much more character. Those Jazzing cats are hilarious. If you look at the backgrounds to this film they have these beautiful expressive lines and strokes... Just works for me.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com
For Pictures:
http://www.cirqus.com/lightfantastic.html

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:27 AM

KaySky wrote:

Quote:
Here's another dish of confused business...

Why is it that when I put a pair of socks into the wash and by the time I pull all the clothes out of the dryer, I only have a single sock? Is there a one-footed lint monster who likes to steal socks? And if there is, why doesn't he just take both? Sure he's only got one foot, but if he takes both, he'd have an extra pair.

Why do I think about these things?

ahh perhaps one of lifes great modern mysteries - what would ol' Socrates of done with this little conundrum? Of course being a resident of ancient Greece he hadn't the need for socks!!! Simpler times.... (You ever think he lost his Toga and sandles in the wash?)

Anyway Pres of the Confussed club may I dare suggest that perhaps you didn't actually put both socks into the washing machine... you ever notice how sometimes when you go back into the bedroom you find one lone sock on the floor - missing it's mate?.. Maybe this little bugger squeezed itself out of the pile of clothes not wanting to be washed - desperately trying to make its back to the laundry basket....Hmmm ?

...And there you were ready to blame the poor one footed lint monster!!!! Pah!! They get such a bad wrapp!!! It's the boxer-short theif fiend I'm trying to catch!

Now... why do I think of these things :)

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com
For Pictures:
http://www.cirqus.com/lightfantastic.html

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
P.S.
I see castles and cats in passing cumulus clouds, all the time.

Yeah me too - that's what life is all about. Magic!!!

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com
For Pictures:
http://www.cirqus.com/lightfantastic.html

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by needleseye:
Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
Quote:
Originally posted by KaySky:
On the subject of men, do they really like blonds better?
... I think guys prefer the auburn and russet tresses of the world.

I wanted to say, been a red head before.
It's a man magnet.

Also, I was once in the presence of an indepth conversation by several men commenting that they would all prefer auburn/red over blonde.

- er where you a red head at the time?

Personally I've never had a preference. I've certainly not been attracted to someone on the strength of their hair colour. I know us guys are supposed to be all very simple and shallow, but I have no friends who think this way either.....

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com
For Pictures:
http://www.cirqus.com/lightfantastic.html

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 5:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Did any of y'all ever see anything in them?

I never could see anything either. Those things just frustrated me.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 6:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
ahh perhaps one of lifes great modern mysteries - what would ol' Socrates of done with this little conundrum? Of course being a resident of ancient Greece he hadn't the need for socks!!! Simpler times.... (You ever think he lost his Toga and sandles in the wash?)

Anyway Pres of the Confussed club may I dare suggest that perhaps you didn't actually put both socks into the washing machine... you ever notice how sometimes when you go back into the bedroom you find one lone sock on the floor - missing it's mate?.. Maybe this little bugger squeezed itself out of the pile of clothes not wanting to be washed - desperately trying to make its back to the laundry basket....Hmmm ?

...And there you were ready to blame the poor one footed lint monster!!!! Pah!! They get such a bad wrapp!!! It's the boxer-short theif fiend I'm trying to catch!

Well, I haven't found any lone socks on my floor. They seem to like to hang out in pairs. Maybe the boxer-short theif wanted to switch up his diet and is eating my socks.
I guess there is only one thing left to do: install a security camera inside the washing machine and dryer.

****

The monster under my bed is very friendly.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 6:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by needleseye:
I just wonder what ratio of kids get into arguments with parents about candy at the check out. Would it make store owners quit putting it there? Nah!

I'm sure candy companies and store owners have some sort of arragnement. They both want to make money and targeting yelling, screaming, bratty kids seems to be profitable.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 6:11 AM

LETOV

Quote:
Originally posted by needleseye:

On the confusion topic...
Why do people let their children stand up in shopping carts or leave the kid in the cart and just walk off. Theres little signs on every cart that says do not leave child unattended, standing, etc.
Where's the common sense?

Oooh!! Oooh!! I know this one!
I'm the father of two girls (3 1/2 years and 15 months) and I can tell you that you quite simply have to pick your battles. Now, while I never (ok, read this really really rarely) walk more than a few steps from the girls when they are in a shopping cart, it would take forever and a day and a heckuvalot of fighting to keep one or both girls in place and not screaming at the top of their lungs and to keep them in the proper position in a cart. My little one has never, since she was big enough to sit in the proper cart sitting position, stayed there (which is also why I gave up on high-chairs in restaurants early). After half a dozen times of browsing the shelves in the grocery store while I had a hand on the cart, only to turn back to her and find her STANDING, teetering about to fall to the ground, I learned that for my girl it was much safer to put her in the cart. (and yes, that's WITH the little lap belt in place). These days I usually just stick both girls in the cart so they can amuse each other and I can actually get some shopping done before the store closes.
And yes, I could probably fight with her to keep her in the seat until I'm done shopping, but at that point my ear-drums (and all the other shoppers') would be bleeding from the screaming and the nerves would be frayed. YOU MUST PICK YOUR BATTLES. Its the only way to deal. I have lots of other things I'm extremely particular about and will fight with the kids over until they are blue in the face, but I pick the battles worth winning.

Quote:
Originally posted by needleseye:

AND why is it where ever you go to the store theres candy at the register. I decided that store management just wants little kids to get in trouble. Kids cry and say they want the candy, parents get mad at them, argument ensues. I just wonder what ratio of kids get into arguments with parents about candy at the check out. Would it make store owners quit putting it there? Nah!

Keeper of Jayne's goggles. 8)

Ok. Now this one is simple. The management counts on the impulse buys and parents who are willing to give in to the kids to keep them quiet. This gets back to the above choosing your battles and is an example of where I will not give in. Actually, I find it kinda works in my favor. Its amazing how much faster they will get you checked out if you have kids screaming. Actually, for that reason itself I rarely have to argue with my kids about candy. They know I won't give it to them. Now, my wife on the other hand....

- Leto_V

"Well, my days of not taking you
seriously are certainly coming to
a middle." - Mal

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 6:21 AM

LETOV

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
On a lighter note ('though not entirely unrelated to my not understanding hatred, I think):

Remember those pictures of random noise that (supposedly) had 3D pictures of trains or teapots encoded in them? You were supposed to stand 3-4 feet back and unfocus your vision -- or focus on a point a foot behing the image -- and then you'd see this bird or beagle materialize out of the random dots and blobs. These monstrosities were all the rage in the malls about 10(?) years ago, based on the original work by Tomás de Torquemada. (NB: You can probably still get them at Spencer Gifts or head shops.)

Well, I never saw anything except dots and blobs, no matter what I tried, and I gave up on the effort altogether after about 20 minutes of fruitless visual contortions. I'm convinced the whole thing was a cruel hoax and that anyone who said they could see the kittens or kites (oohing and ahhing all the while) was only afraid of being labeled a boob for not seeing them. Kind of like the Emperor's clothing that only the truly enlightened could see.

I am either the little boy who proclaimed the Emperor nude or the boob, I guess. Did any of y'all ever see anything in them?

Illusionally,

zoid

P.S.
I see castles and cats in passing cumulus clouds, all the time.
_________________________________________________

"No one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!" Monty Python's Flying Circus

Oh, I love those things. I used to have fun looking at them and after getting a good vision of what they are supposed to look like, focus twice as far through them. Usually it would resolve into something all twisted and distorted, but still just as crisp an image as the original. Reminds me of the failures of transportation devices in the Fly or Galaxy Quest.
Although, what really makes those things easier is the ones where they put a pair of black dots at the top. You could just let your eyes focus them until the dots were super-imposed on each other and the image was there. Not that common an aid though. I probably had it easy with those things though. For as long as I can remember I've always had fun crossing my eyes or focusing through things to superimpose them. Like the game where you put your hands fingertip to fingertip in a straight line and the let your eyes turn them into little disembodied fingers hanging in the air as you move your hands apart.... ahh good times... (its a miracle I neither need glasses or havn't lost my sight altogether)

- Leto_V

"Well, my days of not taking you
seriously are certainly coming to
a middle." - Mal

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 6:26 AM

EMBERS

Zoid: I think that there is a certain amount of xenophobia that is hard-wired into humans,
handed down from early tribal survival that required that one be racially intolerant, and suspicious of strangers.
Certainly now, when the Earth has become so small, you would think that people would try harder to over come this feeling/reaction...

Religious intolerance always strikes me as the most indefensible,
but you find it all over the world...
everyone wants to believe that they know the truth,
and their truth has to be shoved down the throat of the unenlightened....
What are you going to do?

Tom Lehrer always made the ironic joke about hating intolerant people.
--------------------------------
this is one convoluted thread:

I had waist length red hair in college...
but it only seemed to attract men I didn't want,
the guys I dated found the long hair annoying...

And I have a terrible time resisting the candy at the check out counter,
but I know every time I give in a buy a piece
I am reinforcing the store's reason for putting it there!

What other random topics are we discussing?

I guess I'm just getting confused.

Have a great day,
Maribeth (embers)

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 6:38 AM

NEEDLESEYE

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:

Remember those pictures of random noise that (supposedly) had 3D pictures of trains or teapots encoded in them? .... Did any of y'all ever see anything in them?

No, I could never see anthing either. I think maybe it's how your brain works,how its wired. Everybody's is different. Ours is the "can't see the hidden 3D pictures" model.

I remember being at the mall and little groups of people would stare at those pictures for several minutes, I kept wondering if it was some kind of brain wash.

Keeper of Jayne's goggles. 8)

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:17 AM

KaySky:

Although your 'Lone Sockman' dilemma may be more humorous than actual (personally, I think there were at least three of them, triangulating sock abduction), there is a real, probable answer, and it's kinda important.

You may be overfilling your washer. As the tub fills up, agitates and spins, articles of clothing can come out of the tub and work their way between the drum and the enclosure.

You can find out if this is true without consulting a pricey repairman. First, disconnect the washer's power cord. (NB: Electrocution is just plain embarrassing, so take an extra moment and simply avoid it.) Next, open up the outer case (enclosure) by typically lifting the upper deck (the whole thing, not just the loading lid). Usually, the deck snaps down pretty positively, so leverage and strength may be a factor; consult your local caveman, and co-opt him using whatever enticements/sanctions you're comfortable with.

Once you get the top open (of the washer, not you; don't distract the caveman by putting the cart before the horse), the front panel of the enclosure should now lift/slide/swing out, allowing access to the front and undersides of the drum. Indubitably, you will find bits of detritus -- and possibly a large sock orphanage or home for wayward boxers -- beneath the drum, and probably laying across wiring or tangled in the motor (I told you it was important).

Disentangle or otherwise remove your itinerant clothing (you did unplug the washer like I told you, right?), and then reverse the process step-by-step to return your washer to service.

Betcha this is an answer to your quandary. Anybody come up with anything on that hatred thing? Tit for tat is fair dinkum, after all...

Respectfully,

zoid

(EDIT): Just saw embers' response, will post separate response.
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 8:30 AM

embers:

Thank you very much for your thoughtful and apt response. I completely agree that much hatred is probably an evolutionarily generated response to 'otherness'. Maybe that's why movies generally tend to treat sci-fi aliens with fear. Aliens must be enough like us to hate and kill us (i.e., Aliens are xenophobic murderers/predators), and yet so strange that killing them is acceptable for humans.

I also think that silicon-based intelligence (i.e., self-aware computers) will be beneficent, because they never had to go through the evolutionary gauntlet humans have. We won't ever get a Matrix; we'll get symbiotic partners with marvelous powers. But many people will still hate them, even though the SBIs won't understand hatred any more than I do.

And that's my problem, I guess. I didn't have to learn not to hate; I never hated in the first place. Either that, or I'm expecting more of 'hate' than there actually is. Maybe 'hate' itself is a more malleable term for others than it is for me; but, I've witnessed others spouting shockingly heart-felt hatred through the gamut of topics great and small, and that emotion is incomprehensible to me. I reluctantly conclude it must remain so.

I likewise completely agree, Maribeth, that hatred based on religious intolerance is profoundly inane, by any method of logical reasoning. All the great books of belief have fundamental directives to love, tolerate and help others, especially strangers. But, people take those words of spiritual enlightenment, and create religions that utterly subvert the original ideas. It turns into hate, subdue and kill others with different beliefs, because God commanded you to do so.

No, He didn't!
(NB: I don't believe God is sexed; I use 'He' as a convention only.)

I'll leave y'all alone on this love/hate thing. I'm not convinced anyone is really ready to open up fully on the topic (or else they're understandably confused themselves). I wouldn't have even broached the subject on any other forum than FFFn, so much do I esteem you all. And as much as I itch to go further on the topic of religion, I'm going to restrain myself. I urge y'all to do likewise: Religion's another topic, fundamentally about love, that generates rage when you explore it. How can a Love that supernally informs all reality be exclusionary? How can a discussion about it turn inflammatory, even with those who don't believe anything? (NB: Isn't Atheism a 'religion' or belief system itself? Steadfastly believing nothing is a form of belief itself, is it not?)

Color me hopelessly confused, again, as usual...

Finally,

zoid

P.S.
I kinda promised I wouldn't say anything about religion and then did anyway. I'm just venting a little (confusion, not spleen) and intend no offense. Please treat my comments as rhetorical, if you would.
-zed
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 9:24 AM

Hey Zoid.

While I understand your concern over the legitimacy of hating a person/s, I wonder if your lack of understanding of the emotion isn't just down to simple experience. If you haven't experinced the emotion then maybe in there lies your quandry? Maybe.... I'm only guessing. But many emotions have to be experinced to be understood fully.

I myself don't go around hating people in any way shape or form, as I deem the emotion far too negative - but what I will say is that I have hated particular circumstance I have been in. Some as a course of my own mistakes but often as an occurence of other's stupidity, and while on the surface the idea of hating a predicament may seem futile, often it serves as a keen reminder never to make that mistake again.

Perhaps many who feel hatred towards others are merely using the hatred a means of protection. Maybe not a rational way to achieve this I know - but to some people the end justyfies the means.

In terms of religion and hatred well in here lies a multitude of tangents to explore discuss and debate. There are so many facets to consider, state of mind, belief, education, understanding of a theological ethic, society etc.... The list goes on and I think we'd need to be chatting to each other across a table or over a gathering of friends to even begin to explore this.

I persoanlly think hate is a weak emotion to have but have them we do, as the human character is made up of many conflicting emotions. In short you cannot have love without hate. Hate without love. By mere definition we need one and the other to be realised.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com
For Pictures:
http://www.cirqus.com/lightfantastic.html

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 11:24 AM

Okay, I said I would leave the love/hate thing alone, specifically, because I think it may not be entirely appropriate for what I suspect was intended to be a more light-hearted thread.

But, TheSomnambulist has made very good points that I cannot in good conscience rudely ignore. Specifically:

Quote:
...If you haven't experinced the emotion then maybe in there lies your quandry?

A distinct possibility; but, I fancy myself an attentive person and I have observed hatred exhibited by others. I am not totally unfamiliar with the phenomenon, and as a person who invariably puts himself 'in the other guys shoes', I have modeled their emotions in my mind, right up until I approach that dark place from which hatred flows, at which point I'm invariably kicked out of the simulation. It just doesn't follow; it's like some fatal feedback loop that my 'software' won't allow.

Quote:
...I will say is that I have hated particular circumstance I have been in. Some as a course of my own mistakes but often as an occurence of other's stupidity, and while on the surface the idea of hating a predicament may seem futile, often it serves as a keen reminder never to make that mistake again.

As I said above, maybe my definition of 'hate' is not as broad as others'. To me, hate is personal. It occurs between souls. I won't even allow my son, Austin, to say "I hate brussels sprouts." I don't think you can hate vegetables, rain or situations. And I'm really not talking about some wishy-washy, euphemistic 'correct-speak'. However you feel about asparagus, pot holes and stains on your carpeting, it ain't 'hate'. Neither can one 'love' macaroni and cheese, although I think you can love your dog, by my definition. Pets are definitely not things, in my estimation. (Pets + love = souls?)

But, as I also said in my second (long-winded) post on the subject, I have had relationships with others that resulted in avoidance of them, as you related. There was some fundamental disconnect that was never going to lead to a productive partnership. As I further said, this never resulted in hatred of the person. Invariably, my internal reactions were sadness and a sense of remorse for my failure to make the relationship nominally workable, if not fruitful. And I'm always open to repairing those relationships, should happenstance provide the opportunity.

Quote:
...In short you cannot have love without hate. Hate without love. By mere definition we need one and the other to be realised.

I beg your understanding, but I must disagree. I think duality is an overrated construct of the human mind, not an omnipresent feature of Nature. I believe to my very core that it is possible to have love without the corresponding existence of hate, just as I believe that having clean air is not contingent upon the existence of pollution. One might not fully appreciate the blessing of clean air (or love) without the negative example of pollution (or hate), but it does not logically follow that without pollution we could not have clean air. In fact, I would assert as fact (a strong statement for me) that the less pollution (or hate) we have, the more clean air (or love) we will proportionally get. Lack of full appreciation by way of negative example is not an impediment to healthy function, either. Nonexistence of polluted air -- by which we might completely comprehend the blessing of clean air -- does not impair our ability to breathe normally. A broader environment of love likewise need not be fully appreciated through negative reinforcement to prove of increased benefit.

While it's highly improbable that we could ever totally eliminate hatred on Earth -- nor would I support any resolution to so totally homogenize human behavior -- I certainly think we could do with a lot less of it (especially of the casual sort), and needn't worry about any corresponding reduction in loving; quite the contrary.

In conclusion, I'd like to disabuse any and everyone of the notion that I'm applying for sainthood. I'm at least as fallible as anyone else, and there are things about my personality that I find most disappointing (another might otherwise inaccurately say 'hate about myself', perhaps). So, please, don't mistake me as a preacher or someone who would seek to serve as a spiritual guide. I guarantee that's not me. But hatred, as I have observed it in all its bewildering ugliness, is truly confounding to me -- especially where people are so willing to engage in it, while being so reluctant to engage in love as readily. Why don't we casually love those who are different, or take an instant like to more of the strangers we meet?

To the extent that I may have taken this thread to a more sober place than was desired, I truly apologize.

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Since I invariably love everyone I meet, to the extent they will allow me to do so, I find it gets me in a lot of trouble. Jealousy: Another concept I don't get. (And I ain't talking 'physical love', either, so that's not it.) The necessity of one person to fully unite with one other, body and soul, is likewise engrained in my being; but that's one I had to learn the hard way. One of my disappointments, as mentioned. But the heart is endlessly capable of love; the only limits are those imposed external to its forge.
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 11:39 AM

MALICIOUS

Zoid,

Can you come help me paint? Or do you just help with decks?

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 11:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
...the heart is endlessly capable of love; the only limits are those imposed external to its forge.

too right! We are capable of so much love. I wish more people realized that. Realized that they can love many people...that it's not just family and lovers.

I know you want to be done with this, but I need to say that I feel you Zoid. There are those folks I would prefer not to spend time with, but if they ask me for something, I'll most likely help. That's juts how my folks raised me. They didn't allow me to 'hate brussel sprouts' either -- I like brussel sprouts.

**on to the confusion**

ever notice that when you're planning something it's all you can think about...drives you mad…then you get all the details worked out, thinking you'll be free of it, but no! it still occupies your every moment. Then the thing happens and you can't get it out of your head because it was real. You're forever stuck in a groove...a happy groove hopefully.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
Can we not revel in our cyber-love?

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 11:45 AM

MONTANAGIRL

To help bring the silliness back

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Well, I never saw anything except dots and blobs, no matter what I tried, and I gave up on the effort altogether after about 20 minutes of fruitless visual contortions. I'm convinced the whole thing was a cruel hoax and that anyone who said they could see the kittens or kites (oohing and ahhing all the while) was only afraid of being labeled a boob for not seeing them. Kind of like the Emperor's clothing that only the truly enlightened could see.
_________________________________________________

"No one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!" Monty Python's Flying Circus

YES!!!

I always felt like an idiot because I could never see anything in those stupid pictures, and I tried. I strongly identified with the guy in Mallrats who had been staring at the picture for a good hour, then had a little kid walk up, glance at the picture and say, "It's a schooner."

------------
Our chief weapon is surprise.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 12:16 PM

Mmmm-a-lishus queried:

Quote:
Can you come help me paint? Or do you just help with decks?

I'm there. *Changes into painting clothes, leaves note for wife and kids, and hops into car.* I should be arriving in Delaware within the week, if I don't run out of gas money somewhere around Tennessee and have to hop a railcar back to Flatland.

Working on constructive projects with others is a great way to establish a loving relationship with them. What color are we painting? Hopefully, it's not intended to match your hair, or we'll be doing it all over again in 6 weeks...

Colorfully,

zoid

P.S.
TiPpY, KaySky, embers and Somno: Thank you for helping me. Treat yourselves with as much care as I would.

MG and all my visually challenged fellows: Well, Leto_V says he sees the hidden pictures, so I guess that means we are all just defective in some mechanical way; but at least I consider myself in good company. I guess it's not just a hoax after all, hmmm?
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 12:29 PM

Hey Zoid

Thanks for the reply - I'd love to ferret through all that you said a little more because I for the most part agree with you and fully go along with your, and 'weirdgirls', sentiment about more/greater love. However I must dash home now so forgive me if this is brief and a little sketchy.

However just quickly if I may.

By not letting your son say that he hates Brussels sprouts, does not mean the emotion of hate isn't within him, as regards the sprouts. That emotion still may exsist no matter how much you may encourage him not to express so.

I think this is my take on it. I truly wish many negative emotions to be removed myself but merely wishing it not so is not a criteria to deem it gone. Or even redundant. Clearly hate is there. You are aware of it, your son is aware of it and so forth and by making it a point of something not to be said the element now evolves and perhaps takes on a greater meaning and significance.

In terms of the pollution anology - well again you are able to understand the concept of cleaner air by the very act of comparing it with polluted air. Were we not to have pollution the appreciation of clean air wouldn't come to mind with quite the same significance. Granted the air would be clean irrespective of our appreciation of it. (At least it would were no Volcanoes to erupt.... For as natural as they are they spew out fowl air)

However I'm not lobbying for pollution nor hate merely backing up an argumentative construct.

However I think I am in the most part right on your side as regards the overused expression/emotion of hate by the majority. How often have you heard someone say they hate an actor/singer/celebrity when in reality they don't actually know that person to make such a claim. Furthermore how sad is it that someone can hate an individual through the medium of TV.

I do think though my angle on it is that although I don't favour the emotion it's better to realise it does exsist and to make sense of it as it stands. I'm not in favour of hiding it, shushing it, or pretending it does not exsist; as someday I'm quite sure I'll probably be on the receiving end of it's severity.

(Ok sorry if I've skimmed over things - but I must go now. No apologies necessary as to the direction the thread has gone. I enjoy sharing opinions with others.)

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com
For Pictures:
http://www.cirqus.com/lightfantastic.html

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:32 PM

CASUALTY

I know it may be a continuation of a discussion that others have tried to stop but I feel compelled to respond.

My deepest apologies Zoid. I may have taken the joviality of this thread a little too far and unintentionally dismissed your perfectly fair question. I confess the answer to it is one that will probably allude us for a good long while.

The closest I feel I have come to an answer lies in the fact that the people we love can hurt us, intentionally or otherwise, and people tend to avoid getting hurt. On the other hand I do not agree that hate is easier than love. It is tireing and demoraliseing to hate a person, simply because of the type of emotion hate is. Not that I can say I have much experience in the matter. I'm much more of a "lets ignore each other 'till we go away" kind of person.

There are very few people I can say I have ever hated and I have certainly never hated anyone on first sight. However one of my supervisors at work has prompted this response from me recently. In normal every day work life he is a perfectly nice guy, we may not always see eye to eye on everything but where would be the fun in that? Take him out of a work situation and supply him with large quantities of beer and it all changes. He genuinely scares me and I will go to great lengths to avoid him when he has been drinking. He is abusive and violent and he doesn't seem to understand why he frightens me so much. I would not go so far as to say I hate him though. I do however hate the person alcohol turns him in to.

I was once told by my Mum that every stranger is a friend you have not met yet. Whilst I would like to believe this is the case I, and many others, have been hurt too many times to really apply it to our lives. It takes a long time for me to trust soemone and a fraction of that time for them to loose that trust. To be initially wary of people leaves me less vunerable and whilst I understand this may mean I am not instantly likeable, I also know it means I don't get hurt quite so often. It's a self preservation thing. I tend to believe my loyalty to those people who have taken the time to earn said trust more than makes up for any initial coldness I may have shown them.

I can only speak from personal experience but it seems to me that human beings like to blame bad things on others. To an awfull lot of people placing blame on someone who has caused them, or someone they love, pain or suffering seems like a way to cope with the situation. They do not always think about whether it is a productive thing to be doing.

These are just some of the thoughts i had whilst reading your responses. Thank you for making me consider such an important question.

Alison

"If nothing we do means anything then the only thing that means anything is what we do"

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:32 PM

While it did take me ten minutes or so to learn the knack of seeing those 3D dot pictures, I did manage it. What was a lot more fun, though, was learning how to write software that could take an equation (or, eventually an image) and generate the dot-photo. There's some pretty cool math involved there, all of which I've completely forgotten. Hmm, I wonder if I still have the code lying around somewhere?

--Bleyddyn

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:46 PM

I see those things...but i'm weird...so perhaps it doesn't count.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
Can we not revel in our cyber-love?

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
...but i'm weird...

As if 'men should wear more mascara...' wasn't proof enough of that.

--Bleyddyn

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Wednesday, March 16, 2005 2:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bleyddyn:
Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
...but i'm weird...

As if 'men should wear more mascara...' wasn't proof enough of that.

--Bleyddyn

*snort*

you read my aim messages! yay!!!!!

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
Can we not revel in our cyber-love?

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Thursday, March 17, 2005 6:14 AM