Great Songs That Couldn't Be Made Today by 6ixStringJack

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Great Songs That Couldn't Be Made Today

POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
UPDATED: Sunday, May 31, 2026 15:37
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Thursday, May 14, 2026 9:11 PM

I heard this song back from my high school days on the radio today. I never really cared for it much back then, but I suppose something about aging 30 years makes you give things you passed by in your youth a 2nd chance whenever they cross your path.

I know why I didn't like it when I was a kid, and I'm kind of glad that I've grown to appreciate it as an adult. It's just so good.

But look at the lyrics...

And then think about everything in the news and the media over the last 6 years or so, and tell me that a 26 year old Lisa Loeb today wouldn't be destroyed on Twitter for putting a song like this out.

I'm sure I'll think of more to add here, or just bump into them randomly as I did with this one.

Feel free to add any of your own here.

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Thursday, May 14, 2026 11:34 PM

That's a great song SIX.

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Friday, May 15, 2026 2:52 AM

On this fact, there will be no disagreement.

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Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

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Friday, May 15, 2026 3:12 AM

This song always hit hard for me from the first time I'd heard it...

I don't consider this to be a song that couldn't be made today, but I believe in the 3rd verse Anna was singing about what The Internet would do to Lisa Loeb for releasing that song today when she sings the words "2AM and I'm still awake writing a song, if I get it all down on paper it's no longer inside of me, threatening the life it belongs to. And I feel like I'm naked in front of a crowd, because these words are my diary screaming out loud, and I know that you'll use them, however you want to.

Anna may have been the first artist to sing about it, possibly not even realizing that if she were to have been born just several years earlier she would have a much different memory of what life as a teenager and young adult was before the internet became central to everyone's lives.

Even if it wasn't the Feminists relentlessly bashing the song and Lisa herself for being weak and staying in a relationship that clearly has problems and the whole thing being a bad role model for girls, she'd probably have a bunch of people making fun of her on Twitter for it. For staying in what appears to be a pretty solid relationship that didn't magically fix all of her problems that she's very aware of and struggling with. And it should be noted that she didn't let him entirely off the hook either. It's a one-sided story and we don't know if we have a reliable narrator, but with the amount of self-depreciation on display here, I think it's more than fair to accept that her beau was not Mr. Perfect himself.

I think this song would be attacked for weakness today. That she didn't just stand up and walk out on that guy. But that would be completely missing the point. I think it's a song about strength. Weathering the bad times and navigating through all the emotions while keeping focused on the fact that ultimately the relationship brings you more than it takes away from you... or, at very least, achieves equilibrium.

It's easy to quit and walk away. It's hard to put in the work to keep something worth keeping. But what nobody tells you is that it's even harder being alone and looking back and wondering what things would have been like had you made a different choice. If you fought for something worth fighting for instead of always taking the easy way out. That you might just wake up one day realizing that not only isn't there anything left worth fighting for, but that the days where those opportunities just seemed to fall into your lap don't come around all too often anymore either.

--------------------------------------------------

Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

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Friday, May 15, 2026 5:23 AM

maybe you are starting to hear something I already noticed many many years ago

Culture seems dead now
X-Factor America's Got Talent ruined the show

maybe some Spanish Disco Nightclub music or Rap or sad romantic song or something about drugs would make it today...the skill of playing rock and pop is gone

but Common, the so-so, mediocre vocalists with massive egos and their backing track perhaps also destroyed the old tradition of music making...and the record company and editors and audio engineers and magazines and social media promoters and mixers and producers told the singing artist with a big ego that 'this is the correct way'

I believe the solo guitarist also helped kill it, you know you get one of those head up their own asshole, the USA or Canada or British singer-songwriter and musician...some of them with holier than thou attitudes and start talking religion and political garbage and suddenly they replace all their band members with a keyboard backing track, a drum machine, a fake plastic bass but they still got their 'hit' and their money

the old way bands did it?

"Bohemian Rhapsody"
Length almost 6 mins

Any song 4 mins long could not be made today

also most 'Bands' would not exist today, people do not listen to a band, they follow a DJ for example...not that electronic music can not be done well, it can be great but it is mostly done bad.

if you look at soundclouds, youtubes, the tiktoks, spotify hits its mostly solo artists
I cant really name any I could guess maybe try but I dont liosten to modern pop or whatever the radio is I could guess Drake, Kate Perry, Rihanna, Justin Bieber, maybe Michael Jackon is back in the chart with that movie?...Rick Beato listens to the Top-10 so I dont have to
Are bands dead?
You will still find 'bands' out there listen to in the Top100, Beatles, Linkin Park, Queen etc but these guys are nostalgia listeners with band members dead

I think ColdPlay still sells, however that's kind of unusual as most 'bands' will not sell as they used to

People want to watch this Karaoke X-Factor America's Got Talent type of singing music with backing tracks

The audience want the words and voice next Freddy Mercury or next Rapper or next Donna Summer, Dolly Patron, Whitney Houston, they want words and a beat Vanilla_Ice
Vanilla Ice, they Barbra Streisand but not the art of mixing and instruments behind it
that's just nice background noise they dont really understand
the audience can now as AI to give them beats and chords without learning anything of music theory a Chatbot can deliver a backing track.
The audience wants a stage and words it wants a vocal show on the social media but it doesnt want the actual band that helped glue all that melody and rhythm and harmony together

Music in this world has changed, does the audience and consumer know whats different?
The audience is missing something but does not know what sound it is missing, the audience doesnt watch bands playing off each other like they used to
the bass players Flea Red Hot Chili Peppers, uncredited session musicians like Carol Kaye who would inspire groovy jams in studio, Leland Sklar, Jack Bruce, Sting, John Wetton, Tina Weymouth, John McVie, Louis Johnson, Geddy Lee, Bootsy Collins, James Jamerson, Paul McCartney, Geddy Lee, Phil Lesh, Jack Cassidy, Tony Levin, John Paul Jones, George Porter Jr, David Hood, Jaco Pastorius, the drummers Roger Taylor from Queen, Neil Peart, John Bonham, Taylor Hawkins, Stewart Copeland, Bill Bruford, Mick Fleetwood, Phil Rudd, Mike Portnoy, Steve Smith, Jimmy Chamberlin, Michael Shrieve, Steve Jordan, Tito Puente, Clyde Stubblefield, Shela E, Jeff Porcaro, Terry Bozzio, Phil Collins, Vinnie Colaiuta, Ian Paice, Steve Gadd and the guitarists Ritchie Blackmore, Prince, David Gilmour, Jimi Hendrix, Brian May, Clapton, Jimmy Page, John McLaughlin, Mark Knopfler, Joe Perry, Frank Zappa, James Hetfield, Pat Metheny, Joe Walsh, Angus Young, Malcolm Young, John Petrucci, Carlos Santana, Jeff Beck...some of the great backing from other instrumentalists Keyboards etc
Not all skilled 'Rock' guys got big mainstream hits, Dream Theatre was maybe too busy or complex for people but Jordan Rudess was awarded "Best Keyboard Player" many times.
Most who listened to Rush were listeners of music and I would think 'Tool' are very skilled musicians but they have their own small cult following never really 'made it' into the Top10 of anything mainstream.
Some people are skill with instruments but also just not loved by the public, I know some who think Joe Satriani is too much of a show man or a wanker or something annoying but he has great talent.

Music the group and the band is also strange chemistry, some people can have amazing individual talent but for some reason the band might never 'glue' and mix well together you cant just randomly replace band members and expect it all do groove the very same way.

People's ears have changed and the way they consume music and entertainment has changed.

I think some parts of the world maybe some skilled Guitarist, Drummer, Bass player could make it as a 'New Band' I think in some parts of the world they still look for new talents, the record labels are somewhat 'indie' like real labels used to be independent and in some parts of the world and towns and some cities people still have money to spend on gigs and they are still into their Rock Metal Classic Rock sound in some parts of Europe or Asia maybe Japan and some parts of the Latin world are still into that Spanish guitar virtuoso sound

I would like to think a group that had talent like The Beatles or American rock band Kansas or Led Zeppelin or Creedence Clearwater Revival or 'James Brown' or Fleetwood Mac or 'Prince' would make it today but I'm not sure

Songs dont become radio hits like the used to the Aussie and British wave is over. I think the days of Italy being cool and hip or Germany or Japan or French are over, no more Kyu Sakamoto, “Sukiyaki” no more Nel Blu Dipinto Di Blu and no more Red Balloons the Cold War song 99 Luftballons

Korea suddenly became 'cool' and South Korean pop can go viral fast

maybe some Spanish Mexio folk song like "La Bamba" could go into a movie and go viral , or something like Hey Macarena Dance or Las Ketchup Asereje could be made into a hit

Silly Rap and silly Pop sells, most of the tradition in old music the old fashioned creativity in making songs with bands is gone

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Friday, May 15, 2026 5:35 AM

Django Reinhardt he was in an actual band and played with only two fingers, his hand was damaged when he was a kid left hand fingers were badly burned. Nobody listens to this set up today with Violin and a big old Double Bass.

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Friday, May 15, 2026 2:19 PM

Come In From The Cold

Joni Mitchell

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Friday, May 15, 2026 2:20 PM

I was going to say that you missed the point, Jaynez, but then I realized that you're coming at it from the same space that Beato does when he talks about how basic and simple most music is today. Or those videos that explain the phenomena by comparing music today to that of the 60's and the devolution that occurred in between then and now.

I'm talking about the lyrics themselves, and the fact that Lisa Loeb would be tortured online for putting Stay out in 2026.

I don't want to make this just another "Music" thread since we already have 4 of them.

You're making this just another Music thread.

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Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

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Friday, May 15, 2026 2:20 PM

a world before 911 attacks....25 years ago

'Tool'

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Friday, May 15, 2026 2:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I was going to say that you missed the point, Jaynez, but then I realized that you're coming at it from the same space that Beato does when he talks about how basic and simple most music is today. Or those videos that explain the phenomena by comparing music today to that of the 60's and the devolution that occurred in between then and now.

I'm talking about the lyrics themselves, and the fact that Lisa Loeb would be tortured online for putting Stay out in 2026.

I don't want to make this just another "Music" thread since we already have 4 of them.

You're making this just another Music thread.

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Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

Here... let me give you another example. This one is directly on the nose, so nobody should be confused about what the point of the thread was...

NOTE: This song doesn't fit the thread either because, though it's worth a chuckle, it's objectively not a great song.

And I had to post a link to a re-upload because the channel where the guy was playing and singing songs from the late 1800's and early 1900's was banned. Just kind of proving my point here.

--------------------------------------------------

Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

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Friday, May 15, 2026 7:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
This song always hit hard for me from the first time I'd heard it...

I don't consider this to be a song that couldn't be made today, but I believe in the 3rd verse Anna was singing about what The Internet would do to Lisa Loeb for releasing that song today when she sings the words "2AM and I'm still awake writing a song, if I get it all down on paper it's no longer inside of me, threatening the life it belongs to. And I feel like I'm naked in front of a crowd, because these words are my diary screaming out loud, and I know that you'll use them, however you want to.

Anna may have been the first artist to sing about it, possibly not even realizing that if she were to have been born just several years earlier she would have a much different memory of what life as a teenager and young adult was before the internet became central to everyone's lives.

Even if it wasn't the Feminists relentlessly bashing the song and Lisa herself for being weak and staying in a relationship that clearly has problems and the whole thing being a bad role model for girls, she'd probably have a bunch of people making fun of her on Twitter for it. For staying in what appears to be a pretty solid relationship that didn't magically fix all of her problems that she's very aware of and struggling with. And it should be noted that she didn't let him entirely off the hook either. It's a one-sided story and we don't know if we have a reliable narrator, but with the amount of self-depreciation on display here, I think it's more than fair to accept that her beau was not Mr. Perfect himself.

I think this song would be attacked for weakness today. That she didn't just stand up and walk out on that guy. But that would be completely missing the point. I think it's a song about strength. Weathering the bad times and navigating through all the emotions while keeping focused on the fact that ultimately the relationship brings you more than it takes away from you... or, at very least, achieves equilibrium.

It's easy to quit and walk away. It's hard to put in the work to keep something worth keeping. But what nobody tells you is that it's even harder being alone and looking back and wondering what things would have been like had you made a different choice. If you fought for something worth fighting for instead of always taking the easy way out. That you might just wake up one day realizing that not only isn't there anything left worth fighting for, but that the days where those opportunities just seemed to fall into your lap don't come around all too often anymore either.

--------------------------------------------------

Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

You, SIX are a rotten kid. I like both these songs. They speak to me in someway that have both almost had me in tears.

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Friday, May 15, 2026 7:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
You, SIX are a rotten kid. I like both these songs. They speak to me in someway that have both almost had me in tears.

:( I'm sorry Brenda.

Did you know of 2AM before? I know it got good airplay back in the late 2000's. I actually had Anna's album. There were quite a few good songs on it that never got any play.

I love both of the songs because they're REAL. These girls wrote them, and they weren't just written by the same people that write 90% of the music you ever hear.

I'm sure I got you thinking about Blair again. It sounds like you two had a great go of it, and what happened wasn't your fault. I don't think that he'd be happy if he knew you were sad when thinking about him.

I'm envious of you, actually. I think there were a few girls I dated that were really amazing, but my heart was never really in it. I don't think I'm capable of the type of love necessary to have anything lasting. I've been loved, but I don't think I've ever actually felt love. At least not the kind of love that remains after the newness phase of a relationship ends and the relationship becomes increasingly less about the Grand Gestures and just becomes routine.

What's that phrase? It's better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all.

--------------------------------------------------

Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

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Friday, May 15, 2026 11:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
You, SIX are a rotten kid. I like both these songs. They speak to me in someway that have both almost had me in tears.

:( I'm sorry Brenda.

Did you know of 2AM before? I know it got good airplay back in the late 2000's. I actually had Anna's album. There were quite a few good songs on it that never got any play.

I love both of the songs because they're REAL. These girls wrote them, and they weren't just written by the same people that write 90% of the music you ever hear.

I'm sure I got you thinking about Blair again. It sounds like you two had a great go of it, and what happened wasn't your fault. I don't think that he'd be happy if he knew you were sad when thinking about him.

I'm envious of you, actually. I think there were a few girls I dated that were really amazing, but my heart was never really in it. I don't think I'm capable of the type of love necessary to have anything lasting. I've been loved, but I don't think I've ever actually felt love. At least not the kind of love that remains after the newness phase of a relationship ends and the relationship becomes increasingly less about the Grand Gestures and just becomes routine.

What's that phrase? It's better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all.

--------------------------------------------------

Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

It's okay SIX. Music can move to tears or near to tears.

I think I have heard it before but not sure where. Might have been on the radio in a car with one of Blair's friends that were driving me to do something for him.

They did get me thinking about him. I hope we did and I know what happened wasn't my fault. No, he wouldn't want me to ever be sad. But that is life and music.

Love is an odd emotion. I've had love that I thought would stay then didn't. Being wrapped in it was a wonderful feeling. I would like to find it again but not sure.

That is the phrase.

Don't worry about bringing me down. I can do that on my own at times.

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Saturday, May 16, 2026 7:43 AM

Blacks themselves did parody of their culture back in the day, outdated tropes, jokes, stereotypes so many songs back then you cant do today "Theres a N * gger in the Moon" they go viral with a guy putting on a tap dance show or move around as popular sheet music from the era designed for vaudeville and minstrel performances.
Not viral as we know today with the phones the internets, viral back then was buzz on the street and word of mouth about some new crazy jazz venue.

its all controlled now

Where were those songs of protest against the 'War in Iraq'?

I dont listen to pop but I do listen a lot and I have mixed stuff DJ style and jammed with other skilled musicians. The vocal line is most probably the last part of the song I start concentrating on listening to, I will listen to the groove, the bass underneath, the high sparkle drum cymbal, the chord progression, the beats or melody line. You dont really get surprises, most melody Song structure most beats and chord progressions go the same way these days but you do have surprises once in a while...by the time I do listen to Lyrics I would say the intro is gone already I'm probably past the verse, past the pro chorus maybe Verse-chorus is already gone before I actively listen to 'words' I might be passively sub consciously am taking in words maybe not but I and many others miss hear words or maybe mistake one word as another. If I want words or lyrics I will read an actual poet or read a book.

There was a time when music was more family values, more 'prude' and conservative and national pride, the Beatles or The Blues or Rock and Roll or Elvis was seen as devlish or bad influence. The hippie movement during Nam were considered 'Commies' and traitors and drug addicts.

Over time all the record companies got taken over, the 'counter culture' got eaten by the machine. There was no real movement against Bush and the 'Iraq War' everything became fake.

New wrong think offenses pop up, everything had to be Gay and Lesbian, you had to accept all other religions all invading waves of immigration, MeToo gets hijacked by a political money movement, dont make jokes about the Tranny.
Be a degenerate think about booze, drugs, your penis and vagina, get off and get high, have a fight with the local rapper in your hood and most important dont protest the Iraq War.

Its not that there are not great words and lyrics out there, yes some people write great words Bob Dylan, Eminem, Tom Waits, Joni Mitchell, Paulina Villarreal, Van Morrison, Eddie Vedder, Freddy Mercury, Nick Cave, Tracy Chapman, Kris Kristofferson, Woody Guthrie, Prince, Michael Jackson, Smokey Robinson, Billy Joel, John Lydon, David Bowie even the thought provoking words inside the noise of punk and rap....some of them might have been assholes in real life but the put good 'words' on the records. Some lyrics stand out so much you cant help but hear them but I honestly wasnt really a lyric word person, I find most vocalist subjects kinda boring.

Other praised respected lyric writers I find dumb but I guess its 'Art' and everyone can be free to have their own personal tastes. For example I find Bernie Taupin / Elton John to be mostly crap but they do have one or two good vocal words in songs, I mostly just see them as fools...some I have changed my mind for example Dolly Parton Country was one I didnt like but then I heard Jolene and its incredible as if its from the heart they often rank it as one of the "Greatest Songs of All Time" its covered in foreign languages like Spanish and I believe Dolly admitted there is some truth and real life put into that song.
Elvis Costello is one I just dont like, I get people like his words but I dont like those 'words' I find his groove very boring and just 'shit' and even when he has drive in his songs I dont like his voice and think he sounds like an annoying jackass. I dont know what I dont like about in maybe its insincere like its fake trying to mimic other sounds from the paste, there might be 1 or two songs of his I tolerate but I think I just dislike the music but that's just my taste. If I sat down and just read out the lyrical content maybe just maybe I might enjoy it better but I dont think so, I think I would still dislike Elvis Costello.

I dont listen to radio or pop have not really just 'consumed' music in years and even when I did randomly listen I would most ignore words into the song has already moved into chorus...and anyways they will repeat the same shit again and again you're going to get the chorus another 3 or four times. They sing about the same crap they are lonely their sorry ass is no longer fucking their ex-partner, I miss you baby...bla bla...some Black guy and 'Homeboy Niggaz' talking about b*tches or say F*ck 'the Police' or bling bling money and guns and gold chains and threas to shoot someone with more guns or its rock and roll getting high, about drugs and more drink and more drugs, or the lust of wanting to get it on or getting back together and breaking up and getting back together, or more hedonist stuff...the thought provoking or funny irony or counter culture movement stuff is mostly gone now.

A certain message has now been pushed by the record companies since Bush junior and Obama, they killed movies, the message even enters scifi and fantasy books, they kill magazines and tv shows and cancel culture brings us an era where "Weird Al" can't really joke because he must only tell the correct jokes now for the fear of the mob finding him offensive. What happens when the AI machine from the record compnay wants to ban Flight of the Conchords, Ninja Sex Party and The Axis of Awesome. "Try That in a Small Town" is suddenly Hitler-ish and "Rich Men North of Richmond" a song by American singer-songwriter Oliver Anthony suddenly found himself labeled as a Nazi, a Communist and then a Nazi again by the insane cancel culture mob.

I dont think leadership in Art will come from Italy or Japan or France Germany either, the also seem to stagnate and die

Culture Wars are rough its all slop. The West or the USA is in more trouble
the culture today is dead

How dumb has cancel culture become? AI is making better lyrics than most vocalists of today.

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Saturday, May 16, 2026 1:11 PM

One song that problem couldn't get a redo of is Elvis's "In the Ghetto."

Not a hug fan of Elvis but this song still makes a lot of sense today.

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Sunday, May 17, 2026 6:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
You, SIX are a rotten kid. I like both these songs. They speak to me in someway that have both almost had me in tears.

:( I'm sorry Brenda.

Did you know of 2AM before? I know it got good airplay back in the late 2000's. I actually had Anna's album. There were quite a few good songs on it that never got any play.

I love both of the songs because they're REAL. These girls wrote them, and they weren't just written by the same people that write 90% of the music you ever hear.

I'm sure I got you thinking about Blair again. It sounds like you two had a great go of it, and what happened wasn't your fault. I don't think that he'd be happy if he knew you were sad when thinking about him.

I'm envious of you, actually. I think there were a few girls I dated that were really amazing, but my heart was never really in it. I don't think I'm capable of the type of love necessary to have anything lasting. I've been loved, but I don't think I've ever actually felt love. At least not the kind of love that remains after the newness phase of a relationship ends and the relationship becomes increasingly less about the Grand Gestures and just becomes routine.

What's that phrase? It's better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all.

--------------------------------------------------

Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

It's okay SIX. Music can move to tears or near to tears.

I think I have heard it before but not sure where. Might have been on the radio in a car with one of Blair's friends that were driving me to do something for him.

They did get me thinking about him. I hope we did and I know what happened wasn't my fault. No, he wouldn't want me to ever be sad. But that is life and music.

Love is an odd emotion. I've had love that I thought would stay then didn't. Being wrapped in it was a wonderful feeling. I would like to find it again but not sure.

That is the phrase.

Don't worry about bringing me down. I can do that on my own at times.

Yeah. I always used to say something similar when I was young. That no matter what emotion I was feeling at the time, I could use music to change my mood quite easily. That's not usually as true these days as it was back in the age where you're not much more than a walking bundle of hormones going haywire, but the good songs still do the trick sometimes.

It's okay to be sad when you think of him. As much as I'm sure he doesn't want to see you sad, I'm sure he understands. And hell... maybe I'm just projecting, but I think most of us probably would secretly enjoy seeing people sad about is not being around anymore too, right? I think all of us want to believe that It's A Wonderful Life could be about us, or why would we watch it? Nobody wants to leave and look down and see that everybody is having a great time now that they're not around anymore.

Yanno... It's just... It is what it is. You feel what you feel when you feel it. That can't be helped none. It's what you chose to do that you've got control over.

I lost my friend's dad who was a mentor and like a 2nd father to me a few years back, and then my grandma who was the one person who just loved me unconditionally followed right after him. I know I haven't been the same ever since. Sometimes I feel like the version of me that was here when they were doesn't even exist anymore.

I'm still not over it. I disappeared into my projects and tuned most everything else out. I'm still doing that with my house right now, now that I've nearly completed what I wanted to do with the computer stuff. But at least I think it's a step back in the right direction. A step back toward real life. I haven't exactly been taking care of myself, but I kept myself busy enough where I wasn't tempted to drink or do anything really stupid. And I wasn't just wasting away all of those weeks that turned into months that turned into years just laying around playing video games and watching TV all day long. The project was always a double edged sword. It was a time suck and I've given a lot of my life to it, but it has from time to time allowed me a place to hyper focus and use my talents to get things done and always be moving in a forward direction at times when I wasn't able to find a path forward anywhere else, or I was reluctant to take a the path forward for one reason or another.

It will never be "finished". I don't think it ever could. The only way that it ever would is if humanity ended, somebody found our entire history of things, found my project, and they finished it when there was a definitive ending.

But chances are, even then, one of two things would be true. Either they learn about this one thing we did and they adopt it themselves and the story continues and the project never ends, or they already did something similar, and somebody similar to me was already cataloging everything that they were doing, and then our entire history of that one thing is wrapped up into an interesting scientific footnote of somebody elses' story.

Heh...

I love imagination. It makes me sad when I read that so many people today don't have that ability or even understand the concept of having an inner dialogue.

Sorry... Got way off tangent there, Brenda.

I don't know much about love, but one thing I know a lot about is that you won't find it inside your apartment.

--------------------------------------------------

Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

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Sunday, May 17, 2026 1:28 PM

He also put on a good religion show with 'Songs of Praise' he was big into worship music from Blacks, Whites he seemed to like the chords and melody from church.

can you imagine a K-Pop star of today putting Buddhist chants into their album or big Jesus songs? How many people today know he sang Miracle of the Rosary, I dont think he faked that I think he had a very faith, belief part to him
I dont know if he lived it, at times his life is contradiction but think Elvis had a real prayer religion side to him. He did have problems with weight was hooked on meds, I dont think it was for show I think he also belied in something and was spiritual and not in the Fake Plastic Evangelical way, sang a song from the Swedish 'O Store Gud' / How Great Thou Art. I think he had a genuine like for Gospel.

Served with the US in West Germany, from Mississippi, USA the old Silent Generation, the USSR the Ruskie the Iron Curtain of Communism was scary. People in 'The West' today take in foreign belief and immigration but they seem to reject their own religion, it was different back then.

'Amazing Grace'

and also "Crying in the Chapel"

then it changed, you didnt put those type of songs in your pop star album from the 1980s to today...maybe a Santa Claus song but the old Gospel stuff is gone from pop stars.

Priscilla Presley I know she was an activist for a while, maybe they in the movie tv world got to her after his death, she became a member of the L Ron Hubbard Scientologist gang, she made money on his brand with a new 'Agent Elvis' cartoon, Christina Hendricks and a bunch of other famous Hollywood names also voiced the toon.
Elvis Died aged 42

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Sunday, May 17, 2026 2:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
You, SIX are a rotten kid. I like both these songs. They speak to me in someway that have both almost had me in tears.

:( I'm sorry Brenda.

Did you know of 2AM before? I know it got good airplay back in the late 2000's. I actually had Anna's album. There were quite a few good songs on it that never got any play.

I love both of the songs because they're REAL. These girls wrote them, and they weren't just written by the same people that write 90% of the music you ever hear.

I'm sure I got you thinking about Blair again. It sounds like you two had a great go of it, and what happened wasn't your fault. I don't think that he'd be happy if he knew you were sad when thinking about him.

I'm envious of you, actually. I think there were a few girls I dated that were really amazing, but my heart was never really in it. I don't think I'm capable of the type of love necessary to have anything lasting. I've been loved, but I don't think I've ever actually felt love. At least not the kind of love that remains after the newness phase of a relationship ends and the relationship becomes increasingly less about the Grand Gestures and just becomes routine.

What's that phrase? It's better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all.

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Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

It's okay SIX. Music can move to tears or near to tears.

I think I have heard it before but not sure where. Might have been on the radio in a car with one of Blair's friends that were driving me to do something for him.

They did get me thinking about him. I hope we did and I know what happened wasn't my fault. No, he wouldn't want me to ever be sad. But that is life and music.

Love is an odd emotion. I've had love that I thought would stay then didn't. Being wrapped in it was a wonderful feeling. I would like to find it again but not sure.

That is the phrase.

Don't worry about bringing me down. I can do that on my own at times.

Yeah. I always used to say something similar when I was young. That no matter what emotion I was feeling at the time, I could use music to change my mood quite easily. That's not usually as true these days as it was back in the age where you're not much more than a walking bundle of hormones going haywire, but the good songs still do the trick sometimes.

It's okay to be sad when you think of him. As much as I'm sure he doesn't want to see you sad, I'm sure he understands. And hell... maybe I'm just projecting, but I think most of us probably would secretly enjoy seeing people sad about is not being around anymore too, right? I think all of us want to believe that It's A Wonderful Life could be about us, or why would we watch it? Nobody wants to leave and look down and see that everybody is having a great time now that they're not around anymore.

Yanno... It's just... It is what it is. You feel what you feel when you feel it. That can't be helped none. It's what you chose to do that you've got control over.

I lost my friend's dad who was a mentor and like a 2nd father to me a few years back, and then my grandma who was the one person who just loved me unconditionally followed right after him. I know I haven't been the same ever since. Sometimes I feel like the version of me that was here when they were doesn't even exist anymore.

I'm still not over it. I disappeared into my projects and tuned most everything else out. I'm still doing that with my house right now, now that I've nearly completed what I wanted to do with the computer stuff. But at least I think it's a step back in the right direction. A step back toward real life. I haven't exactly been taking care of myself, but I kept myself busy enough where I wasn't tempted to drink or do anything really stupid. And I wasn't just wasting away all of those weeks that turned into months that turned into years just laying around playing video games and watching TV all day long. The project was always a double edged sword. It was a time suck and I've given a lot of my life to it, but it has from time to time allowed me a place to hyper focus and use my talents to get things done and always be moving in a forward direction at times when I wasn't able to find a path forward anywhere else, or I was reluctant to take a the path forward for one reason or another.

It will never be "finished". I don't think it ever could. The only way that it ever would is if humanity ended, somebody found our entire history of things, found my project, and they finished it when there was a definitive ending.

But chances are, even then, one of two things would be true. Either they learn about this one thing we did and they adopt it themselves and the story continues and the project never ends, or they already did something similar, and somebody similar to me was already cataloging everything that they were doing, and then our entire history of that one thing is wrapped up into an interesting scientific footnote of somebody elses' story.

Heh...

I love imagination. It makes me sad when I read that so many people today don't have that ability or even understand the concept of having an inner dialogue.

Sorry... Got way off tangent there, Brenda.

I don't know much about love, but one thing I know a lot about is that you won't find it inside your apartment.

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Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

That I think is what Shakespeare wanted. To have plays remembered and taught. I think a lot of people can quote certain lines from certain plays for sure. Know I can.

Music has always had the ability to move me probably more so as I hit my teen years and beyond now.

Oh, I'm sure he understands and my dad would as well. I am secretly happy when I see people or hear people saying they miss someone who has been gone however long. It means that person truly meant something to them.

Well, sometimes having control over emotion can be heard but that is what I believe music can do. It gives us a place to go and feel maybe more than you could in public.

Projects are good too. Now, that I am more settled is why I have turned back to my writing and trying to get it going again. It hasn't been easy but I wasn't expecting easy. But it did me a world of good and still does.
I miss my friend's dad that the friend from high school as he and his wife became like second parents to me when I got back after Blair died. Then he died and now my friend's mother isn't too good. I will be really sad when she dies.

Yeah, I think a lot of people have lost that ability even if it is to imagine simple things. I've always felt this is who we are as human beings.

No worries SIX. What do you think that thing was about in tag all those months ago about Riel.

I know that but that is the hard part about it.

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Sunday, May 17, 2026 2:06 PM

The deep religion Janyz came from the fact he was raised in the South as a Southern Baptist. To my understanding that church is heavy into music, so he sang in church.

"GI Blues" was also sort of around his time in the army.

Unless you are Blues today you can't put really heavy religious music into a pop album. Or you are part of a Christian band. Now that is an oxymoron if there ever was one.

He was also part Indian and yes his ex made more money off his name.

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Sunday, May 17, 2026 2:07 PM

I'm not even sure "Halfbreed" could be redone without someone taking it totally out of context.

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Monday, May 18, 2026 12:01 AM

You keep working on your writing if it makes you feel good, Brenda.

Now that your computer situation has been more or less squared away, is there something else that you could do to make it easier to get back into it?

What I mean is, perhaps you don't have your space "situated" right? I believe back in the 90's the wild term for it was Fung Shui?

I'm tellin' ya... I was never a believer in that hippie dippy bullshit before, but after finally getting off my ass and decluttering, figuring out what I have and what my needs were, and spending all that time resituating things and making those charging stations for my smaller tech or for other people to charge their own stuff when they get here, the space is working MUCH more for me than it ever was before.

And it will be even better when I get through a few more long-forgotten projects and then making some more firm decisions and I get even more stuff out of here.

It's a work in progress, and it won't happen overnight. But when I'm finally done I want to have a nice setup in the small bedroom with a good computer to work on projects and stuff. Treat myself to a really nice computer chair too. Something I actually enjoy sitting in. No more hunching over my couch in positions I shouldn't be sitting in for hours at a time if I ever go back to the project.

Think about it... Is there any reason that's keeping you from getting back into it? Is your workspace for writing not as appealing as it could be? Maybe a nice, comfortable chair is all your space needs?

Oh... and yeah. I know all about the hard part. Forgive me. I'm giving you advice I don't follow myself.

But maybe there's somebody out there that you're short-changing by not getting out there and introducing yourself to them.

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Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

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Monday, May 18, 2026 12:12 AM

Been reading your stuff too, Jaynez. Just hadn't replied yet.

I'd say you got the point now for sure.

It's funny you mentioned the song "N on the Moon" in your reply. Have you seen that guy before then? Huh... did I post him here before even? That was the song I was actually looking for when I found out his channel had been banned. Honestly, I was shocked it found its way to my home feed and he had so many subscribers already and hadn't been banned way earlier.

Your post is talking some pretty big things, and yeah... it's all fake now. And that was kind of my point with starting this thread with a song as harmless as Lisa Loeb's Stay. I honestly believe that the song could not be made and released today without causing some controversy or another. Meanwhile, all the rap music keeps getting pumped out there for the kids with some of the worst lyrics you've ever heard in your life, and nobody ever seems to have any problem with that.

I don't know man. I've always been a lyrics guy. The person who knew all the words to the songs, and not just the chorus. The guy who could sing karaoke and didn't need to look at the teleprompter. Never knew what notes I was singing either, but I always hit them.

If I'm listening to music with words, I prefer them to mean something to me. Of course it's got to sound good, but if I don't care about what they're saying, I'm not going to have it on my playlist for long no matter how good it sounds.

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Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

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Monday, May 18, 2026 1:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
You keep working on your writing if it makes you feel good, Brenda.

Now that your computer situation has been more or less squared away, is there something else that you could do to make it easier to get back into it?

What I mean is, perhaps you don't have your space "situated" right? I believe back in the 90's the wild term for it was Fung Shui?

I'm tellin' ya... I was never a believer in that hippie dippy bullshit before, but after finally getting off my ass and decluttering, figuring out what I have and what my needs were, and spending all that time resituating things and making those charging stations for my smaller tech or for other people to charge their own stuff when they get here, the space is working MUCH more for me than it ever was before.

And it will be even better when I get through a few more long-forgotten projects and then making some more firm decisions and I get even more stuff out of here.

It's a work in progress, and it won't happen overnight. But when I'm finally done I want to have a nice setup in the small bedroom with a good computer to work on projects and stuff. Treat myself to a really nice computer chair too. Something I actually enjoy sitting in. No more hunching over my couch in positions I shouldn't be sitting in for hours at a time if I ever go back to the project.

Think about it... Is there any reason that's keeping you from getting back into it? Is your workspace for writing not as appealing as it could be? Maybe a nice, comfortable chair is all your space needs?

Oh... and yeah. I know all about the hard part. Forgive me. I'm giving you advice I don't follow myself.

But maybe there's somebody out there that you're short-changing by not getting out there and introducing yourself to them.

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Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

I am but I am having trouble getting the second book I am working just right. I keep writing the prologue and the first 3 chapters. Though I think I am closer now to how I want it to start. I have also sort written an ending for it.

That's me doing things backward.

The term was "Fung Shui" which is never really been my thing. I'm just tidying up papers around my table to see what I need and I don't need. Put things away so they aren't in my way.

That's what I always say. I'm a work in progress, specially since I've gotten older.

Oh, I'm sure there maybe someone out there but I just haven't met him yet.

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Monday, May 18, 2026 1:44 PM

Here's really another song that couldn't be done now. "Kaw-liga" it was put out in the 50's at least. First line is about a wooden Indian.

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Monday, May 18, 2026 5:02 PM

Jaynzes, here's something else you may not realize is music is vibrations. Beethoven was by all stories stone deaf towards the end of his life. But he understood that sound was vibration. It's said that he had the legs cut off of pianos so they laid flat on the floor. Then he would lay on the floor with one ear on it, so he could feel the vibrations to still be able to write.

The greatest symphonies and such were written by Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin and the like. Modern composers cannot in my opinion come close. And neither would bloody AI.

Music is also mathematics. AI may understand the mathematics of music but there is no soul.

There are several things all humans have in common and is music. We all create it in some form. From a simple drum beat to flutes to whatever instrument you want to name. These forms all have soul.

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Friday, May 22, 2026 6:52 PM

Yeah.... but....

So much of the music is fake and doesn't have any soul even though there's a living person doing it.

Not that this is anything new by 2026, but it just seems to be more pervasive now since so may "artists" don't actually play any instruments anymore.

I really think that MTV finally killed music.

There's exceptions to the rule, of course, but since the creation of MTV and everything that followed, the bottom line has been that if you're ugly, nobody is going to ever hear your music or care about it no matter how brilliant it is.

That wasn't necessarily the end of the world on its own, but that in tandem with the fact the industry is all run by people who don't care about music unless it makes them money, they don't care if it's good or if it means anything. And over time we've seen the artists become more and more beautiful with less and less music being put out that's worth anything. There may be 3 songs put out per year that anybody will remember 5 years from now, let alone end up being classics that people are still playing 50 years from now.

AI today can't recreate what even the most talentless new artsists can create, but the line in that sand is not very wide. My guess is that if people were okay with the trash shit they put out as "music" today made by actual human beings (or more accurately, performed by human monkeys but created by the algorithm), they're going to be just fine with all of our music being created by AI once it gets a little more advanced. Simply having human bodies there does not dictate that there is any soul to be found.

And again... when tickets for Taylor Swift were going for over $3,000 a piece a few years back, who the hell can blame them from walking away from the "real" artists anyhow.

I buy and pay for nearly half of everything I need to live for an entire year what some people were paying to see Taylor Swift in concert for 2 hours.

It's insanity.

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Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

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Friday, May 22, 2026 8:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Yeah.... but....

So much of the music is fake and doesn't have any soul even though there's a living person doing it.

Not that this is anything new by 2026, but it just seems to be more pervasive now since so may "artists" don't actually play any instruments anymore.

I really think that MTV finally killed music.

There's exceptions to the rule, of course, but since the creation of MTV and everything that followed, the bottom line has been that if you're ugly, nobody is going to ever hear your music or care about it no matter how brilliant it is.

That wasn't necessarily the end of the world on its own, but that in tandem with the fact the industry is all run by people who don't care about music unless it makes them money, they don't care if it's good or if it means anything. And over time we've seen the artists become more and more beautiful with less and less music being put out that's worth anything. There may be 3 songs put out per year that anybody will remember 5 years from now, let alone end up being classics that people are still playing 50 years from now.

AI today can't recreate what even the most talentless new artsists can create, but the line in that sand is not very wide. My guess is that if people were okay with the trash shit they put out as "music" today made by actual human beings (or more accurately, performed by human monkeys but created by the algorithm), they're going to be just fine with all of our music being created by AI once it gets a little more advanced. Simply having human bodies there does not dictate that there is any soul to be found.

And again... when tickets for Taylor Swift were going for over $3,000 a piece a few years back, who the hell can blame them from walking away from the "real" artists anyhow.

I buy and pay for nearly half of everything I need to live for an entire year what some people were paying to see Taylor Swift in concert for 2 hours.

It's insanity.

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Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

Oh, I agree that a lot of people play or sing and think they are just wonderful but in reality they are horrible. My boss is like. She plays the guitar and thinks is wonderful at it but I've heard her and that is a hard no.

I have noticed that about today's "artists" but that happened in the middle of Surfer music back in the 60s. Some of those groups didn't play anything either.

Oh, I think we all know has the music industry has changed over last decades. But it's not only music producers that can dumb down a singer or a musician. Managers play a huge part in things too.

Like I said AI may understand the mathematics of it but as you said along with me no soul.

Music is about soul. I do not look forward to all that AI garbage. And that will when it happens I will be looking at things more closely.

You wouldn't get me paying anything like that for her. As far as she's concerned all she does is stand there and look pretty.

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Friday, May 22, 2026 10:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Oh, I agree that a lot of people play or sing and think they are just wonderful but in reality they are horrible. My boss is like. She plays the guitar and thinks is wonderful at it but I've heard her and that is a hard no.

Yeah... I was that guy. I will admit that younger, more annoying me that still thought I was the bright shiny center of the universe put people through that before. I "played" a lot, but I was never any good. I would have actually had to learn music theory and practice actual drills to get good. I was just trying to use computer tablature and memorize songs I liked, and although that worked out great for my singing and I killed it every Karaoke Night, I was never good at guitar. But that didn't stop me from annoying people with it.

Every time I watch Animal House and John Belushi takes that guy's acoustic guitar and smashes it I cringe because somebody should have done that to me years ago.

Quote:
I have noticed that about today's "artists" but that happened in the middle of Surfer music back in the 60s. Some of those groups didn't play anything either.

I mean, pop music has been around a long time, sure... but usually there were quite a few artists that were real artists doing their thing in the spotlight too. I don't mind at all that music I don't like exists. I just think that the scales have tipped so far one way now that it's hard to find anything new that's good. Every once in a while while working out in my garage during the summer there will be a new one that's worth a listen, but it ain't often. I know full well that's partly because I'm on the bad end of the joke now about how new music becomes nothing but noise to old people... But things genuinely are different this time. My old man's biggest complaint about new music when I was a kid was all the synthesizers and that nobody played instruments anymore. But that wasn't true... A lot of pop acts, especially in the 80's were all synth and computers, but there was always plenty of other music out there with real instruments to listen to as well. Now in most cases if you want that, you've just got to listen to old music. They don't really make that anymore. And like Jaynez said, there's really no "bands" anymore. Most of the time that there are people playing instruments for the stars, they're just studio musicians doing part-time gigs when a star has a song that actually needs real talent to play.

And about Taylor, I'm not even trash talking just to trash talk her. Though she is starting to age now, and I think that's probably contributing to her sudden "not being the most popular thing on the planet", she's always been more than just a pretty face. As far as I know, she writes all of her own stuff. I know that she can play guitar a hell of a lot better than I ever will, even though I would guess most of her fans wouldn't even know that about her unless they were superfans because that's not how she became a household name and that all predates her rise to superstardom.

In fact, there have been 2 songs by Taylor that I really, genuinely liked. And that's despite the fact that a lot or even most of that music behind them are synthisized.

This is one of those...

I'm not a Taylor Swift fan, but I can say that song is objectively a good song despite the fact there isn't a real instrument on display.

And anybody looking at those lyrics and thinking that they're too trite, I would disagree. She's talking about how she's a dangerous mess, and she's aware that she gets away with a lot of shit that most women would never be able to get away with because of her looks. She even says half a dozen times "Don't Say I didn't Warn Ya", in between laughing about how this relationship will probably be over before the weekend ends and she's about to destroy another dude. This isn't Cyndi Lauper singing about how girls just wanna have fun, and maybe people get hurt from being careless with their hearts. She doesn't even feign trying to hide the glee in her voice just thinking about ruining somebody. It's a fun thing for her to do.

I think you have to look at a career like hers as chapters of a book. She's still close to being on top of the world, but I know that she's had some restless nights thinking about how the best times are probably behind her and they will start coming less and less frequently.

That's the rough thing about being a girl with looks like hers who is also completely self-centered (arguably, rightfully so, given how it's gone for her so far...) while living as if the good times were going to last forever.

It's not that her parents or anybody else failed her by never giving her lessons about overcoming adversity. And it's not Taylor's fault that she never bothered learning anything about it herself, either. That simply can't be taught, you can't intentionally force it on yourself for learning purposes, and on the flip side you can't teach it to yourself no matter how many books you read. It can be lectured about, sure... but nothing can ever prepare you for it. It's something you learn as you go through it. It's something that most people in the history of the world endure much more often than not, over and over and over again their entire lives, and even more so as they grow older.

And yet Taylor is one of the lucky. One who's life has been so charmed that the absolute worst thing to ever happen to her was a bad breakup. Boo hoo.

When Taylor's fall comes, I think it's going to be glorious.

I don't think it will kill her. But I think the Taylor Swift that people know of 30 years from now is just going to be very, very different than the one that people have in their minds today.

And if I'm right, she's going to keep writing and singing about all of it as long as people keep paying for it.

...

I know. It sounds crazy. She's one of the richest people in the world and she's marrying the star quarterback.

Good luck with that. Maybe it works out.

But if it doesn't, maybe another 4 or 5 years go by and the ability to walk around anywhere and have people doing what you want them to won't exist for her anymore. Eventually one day the realization that having all the money in the world isn't a magic bullet to fix anything when it can't even fix you. You can keep paying people to do stuff for you for the rest of your life with all of that money, but nothing is going to take away the memory of the days when everyone around you did all of that for you for free just because you were you. That, you don't ever forget. How do you cope with all of those realizations after the way that you've lived your life up until that realization?

THAT is the interesting part...

And if I'm right, we're going to hear all about it if we choose to listen. I think by the end, the transformation that Taylor Swift makes from now until she falls completely out of the public eye is going to make her transfer from Country Music to Pop look like child's play.

I probably won't like much of the music she does in the future, just like I don't right now, but I think watching it all will be interesting. She's pretty self-aware and doesn't exactly go out of her way to paint her own persona in a flattering light in her songs already, so who knows....? She may be the first person to write and sing the Female side of the story of Bob Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone" for us one day.

Make no mistake. Bob wrote this song about Taylor Swift. Of course, not her specifically, but there has never been a woman in the public space and as well known as she who embodies and even glorifies what it is like to be the woman that Bob was singing about, while she was living in that moment.

And giving both of these songs another listen right now, I believe that Taylor has already written and performed the first half of the other side of "Like a Rolling Stone".

The back half has yet to come...

Stay Tuned!

I don't resent Taylor Swift. I think I just resent that I live in a world where Taylor Swift is the "Best of the Best" that we have on offer right now.

I think we can do better than that, can't we?

And I know I REALLY resent the price of doing ANYTHING fun these days. The most I ever spent on concert tickets back in the day was like $50 for one of those all-day concerts that had like 80 bands on 7 different stages. Now we get Taylor selling average seats for $300 and our government doesn't do a damn thing about scalpers that turn around and make thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars snatching them up at those ridiculous prices and turning around and selling them for 10 times the profit and probably not even paying any income tax on any of their scamming.

Quote:
Oh, I think we all know has the music industry has changed over last decades. But it's not only music producers that can dumb down a singer or a musician. Managers play a huge part in things too.

At the end of the day, they do it themselves. That's just the way their bread gets buttered. Keep your integrity and struggle for the rest of your life, or sell out and have some really great times and maybe a really easy life if you're not absolutely terrible with money. I think that's a pretty simple equation for most people who are lucky enough to be presented with it.

Quote:
Like I said AI may understand the mathematics of it but as you said along with me no soul.

Music is about soul. I do not look forward to all that AI garbage. And that will when it happens I will be looking at things more closely.

Yeah. I get it. I'm not arguing that point with you. I just feel like we already have to listen to older stuff to even get a whiff of that soul as it is already. Like Jaynez said, even counter-culture has become corporateized, and a long time ago too. I think for a long time we've mostly been listening to stuff that wasn't real or doesn't matter, even back when everything was done with real instruments.

They're never going to convince US that this new music is good, but they've never needed to do that. They convinced us that OUR music was good when we were growing up and our parents hated it. Exactly like they're doing to the kids with music that is almost exclusively created without actual instruments today.

If you ever hear the people on the news talking about the "Prime Demographic" when it comes to TV shows or big events like the Superbowl, that's what they're talking about. And I don't mean to speak for the both of us here, but I'd say that for most of our lives neither of us ever fell into that box, but it really doesn't matter anymore because we've pretty much aged out of it now.

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Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

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Friday, May 22, 2026 11:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Oh, I think we all know has the music industry has changed over last decades. But it's not only music producers that can dumb down a singer or a musician. Managers play a huge part in things too.

At the end of the day, they do it themselves. That's just the way their bread gets buttered. Keep your integrity and struggle for the rest of your life, or sell out and have some really great times and maybe a really easy life if you're not absolutely terrible with money. I think that's a pretty simple equation for most people who are lucky enough to be presented with it.

That's what I George Michael's was singing about in Freedom...

Official Music Video:

Lyric Video:

Interestingly enough, I think that is an example of a song that I think could easily get made today, yet I'm surprised it got through the various censors and corporate filters it would have needed to in order to get out to the public at all back when it was made. And this has nothing at all to do with the fact he was gay. Other than certain lyrics like "didn't we, boy" that pop up from time to time, there doesn't appear to be any correlation between the exclamation of "FREEDOM" and anything to do with gay culture, whatsoever. Either it was about his personal experiences with other boys when he was younger, or perhaps he is quoting a gay and rapey executive with power and how he was talked to by some big shot back in the days when you couldn't even talk about that stuff. Or maybe it was just a happy lyric talking about friends and that was just how he talked to all of his male friends. The addition of those lyrics is incidental.

90% of the dummies out there never learn a single lyric of any song outside of the chorus. Most of those that do only ever bother for songs they really like. Easy to hide a song like this and the implications behind it by putting on full-blast "HEY AMERICA! GEORGE MICHAEL IS GAY!" and getting everyone to mistake this early attempt at whistleblowing the industry as a pride anthem or some nonsense instead.

Today it doesn't matter because everybody knows about all of it but barely finds the time to care at all. We all get outraged about something for 10 seconds and then it's off to the next thing to be angry about. Maybe George proved that I'm wrong and it didn't matter 30 years ago before the internet was even a thing.

Because I think this song was actually a cry for help that fell completely on deaf ears by his fans, the public in general and everyone close to him in his real life.

An admission that despite all the fame and the success that he was a joke. A pawn. A tool for somebody else who has spent his entire career "taking the knife as well", whenever choosing not to question anything buttering his bread made him do.

I'm really surprised that some corporate suit didn't find a way to bury the idea of this song with George in that casket.

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Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

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Saturday, May 23, 2026 1:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Oh, I agree that a lot of people play or sing and think they are just wonderful but in reality they are horrible. My boss is like. She plays the guitar and thinks is wonderful at it but I've heard her and that is a hard no.

Yeah... I was that guy. I will admit that younger, more annoying me that still thought I was the bright shiny center of the universe put people through that before. I "played" a lot, but I was never any good. I would have actually had to learn music theory and practice actual drills to get good. I was just trying to use computer tablature and memorize songs I liked, and although that worked out great for my singing and I killed it every Karaoke Night, I was never good at guitar. But that didn't stop me from annoying people with it.

Every time I watch Animal House and John Belushi takes that guy's acoustic guitar and smashes it I cringe because somebody should have done that to me years ago.

Quote:
I have noticed that about today's "artists" but that happened in the middle of Surfer music back in the 60s. Some of those groups didn't play anything either.

I mean, pop music has been around a long time, sure... but usually there were quite a few artists that were real artists doing their thing in the spotlight too. I don't mind at all that music I don't like exists. I just think that the scales have tipped so far one way now that it's hard to find anything new that's good. Every once in a while while working out in my garage during the summer there will be a new one that's worth a listen, but it ain't often. I know full well that's partly because I'm on the bad end of the joke now about how new music becomes nothing but noise to old people... But things genuinely are different this time. My old man's biggest complaint about new music when I was a kid was all the synthesizers and that nobody played instruments anymore. But that wasn't true... A lot of pop acts, especially in the 80's were all synth and computers, but there was always plenty of other music out there with real instruments to listen to as well. Now in most cases if you want that, you've just got to listen to old music. They don't really make that anymore. And like Jaynez said, there's really no "bands" anymore. Most of the time that there are people playing instruments for the stars, they're just studio musicians doing part-time gigs when a star has a song that actually needs real talent to play.

And about Taylor, I'm not even trash talking just to trash talk her. Though she is starting to age now, and I think that's probably contributing to her sudden "not being the most popular thing on the planet", she's always been more than just a pretty face. As far as I know, she writes all of her own stuff. I know that she can play guitar a hell of a lot better than I ever will, even though I would guess most of her fans wouldn't even know that about her unless they were superfans because that's not how she became a household name and that all predates her rise to superstardom.

In fact, there have been 2 songs by Taylor that I really, genuinely liked. And that's despite the fact that a lot or even most of that music behind them are synthisized.

This is one of those...

I'm not a Taylor Swift fan, but I can say that song is objectively a good song despite the fact there isn't a real instrument on display.

And anybody looking at those lyrics and thinking that they're too trite, I would disagree. She's talking about how she's a dangerous mess, and she's aware that she gets away with a lot of shit that most women would never be able to get away with because of her looks. She even says half a dozen times "Don't Say I didn't Warn Ya", in between laughing about how this relationship will probably be over before the weekend ends and she's about to destroy another dude. This isn't Cyndi Lauper singing about how girls just wanna have fun, and maybe people get hurt from being careless with their hearts. She doesn't even feign trying to hide the glee in her voice just thinking about ruining somebody. It's a fun thing for her to do.

I think you have to look at a career like hers as chapters of a book. She's still close to being on top of the world, but I know that she's had some restless nights thinking about how the best times are probably behind her and they will start coming less and less frequently.

That's the rough thing about being a girl with looks like hers who is also completely self-centered (arguably, rightfully so, given how it's gone for her so far...) while living as if the good times were going to last forever.

It's not that her parents or anybody else failed her by never giving her lessons about overcoming adversity. And it's not Taylor's fault that she never bothered learning anything about it herself, either. That simply can't be taught, you can't intentionally force it on yourself for learning purposes, and on the flip side you can't teach it to yourself no matter how many books you read. It can be lectured about, sure... but nothing can ever prepare you for it. It's something you learn as you go through it. It's something that most people in the history of the world endure much more often than not, over and over and over again their entire lives, and even more so as they grow older.

And yet Taylor is one of the lucky. One who's life has been so charmed that the absolute worst thing to ever happen to her was a bad breakup. Boo hoo.

When Taylor's fall comes, I think it's going to be glorious.

I don't think it will kill her. But I think the Taylor Swift that people know of 30 years from now is just going to be very, very different than the one that people have in their minds today.

And if I'm right, she's going to keep writing and singing about all of it as long as people keep paying for it.

...

I know. It sounds crazy. She's one of the richest people in the world and she's marrying the star quarterback.

Good luck with that. Maybe it works out.

But if it doesn't, maybe another 4 or 5 years go by and the ability to walk around anywhere and have people doing what you want them to won't exist for her anymore. Eventually one day the realization that having all the money in the world isn't a magic bullet to fix anything when it can't even fix you. You can keep paying people to do stuff for you for the rest of your life with all of that money, but nothing is going to take away the memory of the days when everyone around you did all of that for you for free just because you were you. That, you don't ever forget. How do you cope with all of those realizations after the way that you've lived your life up until that realization?

THAT is the interesting part...

And if I'm right, we're going to hear all about it if we choose to listen. I think by the end, the transformation that Taylor Swift makes from now until she falls completely out of the public eye is going to make her transfer from Country Music to Pop look like child's play.

I probably won't like much of the music she does in the future, just like I don't right now, but I think watching it all will be interesting. She's pretty self-aware and doesn't exactly go out of her way to paint her own persona in a flattering light in her songs already, so who knows....? She may be the first person to write and sing the Female side of the story of Bob Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone" for us one day.

Make no mistake. Bob wrote this song about Taylor Swift. Of course, not her specifically, but there has never been a woman in the public space and as well known as she who embodies and even glorifies what it is like to be the woman that Bob was singing about, while she was living in that moment.

And giving both of these songs another listen right now, I believe that Taylor has already written and performed the first half of the other side of "Like a Rolling Stone".

The back half has yet to come...

Stay Tuned!

I don't resent Taylor Swift. I think I just resent that I live in a world where Taylor Swift is the "Best of the Best" that we have on offer right now.

I think we can do better than that, can't we?

And I know I REALLY resent the price of doing ANYTHING fun these days. The most I ever spent on concert tickets back in the day was like $50 for one of those all-day concerts that had like 80 bands on 7 different stages. Now we get Taylor selling average seats for $300 and our government doesn't do a damn thing about scalpers that turn around and make thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars snatching them up at those ridiculous prices and turning around and selling them for 10 times the profit and probably not even paying any income tax on any of their scamming.

Quote:
Oh, I think we all know has the music industry has changed over last decades. But it's not only music producers that can dumb down a singer or a musician. Managers play a huge part in things too.

At the end of the day, they do it themselves. That's just the way their bread gets buttered. Keep your integrity and struggle for the rest of your life, or sell out and have some really great times and maybe a really easy life if you're not absolutely terrible with money. I think that's a pretty simple equation for most people who are lucky enough to be presented with it.

Quote:
Like I said AI may understand the mathematics of it but as you said along with me no soul.

Music is about soul. I do not look forward to all that AI garbage. And that will when it happens I will be looking at things more closely.

Yeah. I get it. I'm not arguing that point with you. I just feel like we already have to listen to older stuff to even get a whiff of that soul as it is already. Like Jaynez said, even counter-culture has become corporateized, and a long time ago too. I think for a long time we've mostly been listening to stuff that wasn't real or doesn't matter, even back when everything was done with real instruments.

They're never going to convince US that this new music is good, but they've never needed to do that. They convinced us that OUR music was good when we were growing up and our parents hated it. Exactly like they're doing to the kids with music that is almost exclusively created without actual instruments today.

If you ever hear the people on the news talking about the "Prime Demographic" when it comes to TV shows or big events like the Superbowl, that's what they're talking about. And I don't mean to speak for the both of us here, but I'd say that for most of our lives neither of us ever fell into that box, but it really doesn't matter anymore because we've pretty much aged out of it now.

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Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

Yeah and she likes to think she can sing too. Singing is iffy. I got really good at playing the clarinet but I never thought I was a great musician. I was good and I could sing good then. Now, I still like to sing but...my voice isn't best anymore.

Oh, I know that artists in the early rock' n roll era played their own instruments. Look at Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly. Heck, even Elvis could play the guitar and did on stage before he became really big.

Hey, I resemble that remark. Rap music is noise to me. I rarely come across any of that I can actually like.
ABBA at times had a lot of synth in it but oddly enough my mother loved them. She could handle Sonny and Cher too, which I loved. But she really went to the early years of rock. Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Elvis and such.

Now you are starting to see my end of the stick. Give me some Bob Seger and "Old Time Rock and Roll." "That can sooth my soul."

True but then you have to remember the Beatles started out playing in nasty little clubs in Liverpool before hitting the big time.

Think there is one of Taylor Swift's songs I've heard that is okay. Don't ask me to name it because I don't remember.

Oh, I know there are always lucky ones of course and yes, Taylor is one of them. But maybe falling down once in her career would have taught her something. Not saying that should have happened. Just a thought.
There faces were plastered on every magazine you could look at when they got engaged. Made me sick.

Yes, we can do better than her. I'm sure there must be a struggling musician out there who would love a shot at the big time.

I've never been to a concert. Close as I game was a wrestling card all those years ago.

That "Prime Demographic" has been around almost as long as you have. And I don't know if I have ever fit into it. Oh, well.

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Saturday, May 23, 2026 1:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Oh, I think we all know has the music industry has changed over last decades. But it's not only music producers that can dumb down a singer or a musician. Managers play a huge part in things too.

At the end of the day, they do it themselves. That's just the way their bread gets buttered. Keep your integrity and struggle for the rest of your life, or sell out and have some really great times and maybe a really easy life if you're not absolutely terrible with money. I think that's a pretty simple equation for most people who are lucky enough to be presented with it.

That's what I George Michael's was singing about in Freedom...

Official Music Video:

Lyric Video:

Interestingly enough, I think that is an example of a song that I think could easily get made today, yet I'm surprised it got through the various censors and corporate filters it would have needed to in order to get out to the public at all back when it was made. And this has nothing at all to do with the fact he was gay. Other than certain lyrics like "didn't we, boy" that pop up from time to time, there doesn't appear to be any correlation between the exclamation of "FREEDOM" and anything to do with gay culture, whatsoever. Either it was about his personal experiences with other boys when he was younger, or perhaps he is quoting a gay and rapey executive with power and how he was talked to by some big shot back in the days when you couldn't even talk about that stuff. Or maybe it was just a happy lyric talking about friends and that was just how he talked to all of his male friends. The addition of those lyrics is incidental.

90% of the dummies out there never learn a single lyric of any song outside of the chorus. Most of those that do only ever bother for songs they really like. Easy to hide a song like this and the implications behind it by putting on full-blast "HEY AMERICA! GEORGE MICHAEL IS GAY!" and getting everyone to mistake this early attempt at whistleblowing the industry as a pride anthem or some nonsense instead.

Today it doesn't matter because everybody knows about all of it but barely finds the time to care at all. We all get outraged about something for 10 seconds and then it's off to the next thing to be angry about. Maybe George proved that I'm wrong and it didn't matter 30 years ago before the internet was even a thing.

Because I think this song was actually a cry for help that fell completely on deaf ears by his fans, the public in general and everyone close to him in his real life.

An admission that despite all the fame and the success that he was a joke. A pawn. A tool for somebody else who has spent his entire career "taking the knife as well", whenever choosing not to question anything buttering his bread made him do.

I'm really surprised that some corporate suit didn't find a way to bury the idea of this song with George in that casket.

--------------------------------------------------

Be Nice. Don't be a dick.

Sure some singers/musicians do sabotage themselves. Not saying they don't. Drugs, booze and easy access to it has brought down many a artist.

I love George Michaels' "Freedom". I've got it on tape somewhere. It speaks to me in a lot of ways. Yeah, I think it could me made today as well.

That's like the Rolling Stones on the Ed Sullivan show all those years ago having to change a word in one of their songs. Song was "Let's spend the night together" to "Let's Spend some time together." I always find that funny but that's the world back then. People flipped out at Elvis for getting up on stage and swinging his hips around.

Oh, George Michaels got dragged through the mud when he was arrested for doing it in a park bathroom. But it didn't really stop his career.

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Sunday, May 24, 2026 8:21 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

The Soundtracking of America

Music made sense when the world did. Now the sense is gone, but the melody lingers on -- everywhere. We live surrounded by music, from torch songs at Starbucks to the Beatles in the elevator, and the barrage may be turning our minds to mush

By J. Bottum | March 2000 Issue
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Bottum_(author)

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/03/the-soundtracking
-of-america/378052/

. . . music stands fairly low on the traditional list of devices by which we try to understand human experience. Who ever learned anything from music except the emotional power of music? It's a thin rather than an intellectually thick art form, and a people that takes music as the highest expression has cut itself off from narrative, epic, allegory -- from the explanatory arts that could put to any use the emotions music represents.

. . . Music is not culture. It's the mist that plays above culture. A people that takes its music as fundamental art -- as we have taken music, making the all-penetrating surround of recorded noise the single most apparent fact of American society -- has mistaken the foam for the sea. "I am fond of music," Hermann Hesse observes in his novel Demian, "I think because it is so amoral." Hesse was right about music's genuine amorality: in a culture organized around good thought, music will express the moods fitting that thought, whereas in a culture organized around bad thought, music will express the moods fitting that, too.

But what happens in a culture without thought, a culture with expression but nothing to express? The way we listen to music re-creates, more than anything else, Hesse's Glass Bead Game: a complex and sophisticated rite filled with delicate connections perceived by its priestly scholastics, lacking any meaning, and consuming the culture's intellectual and emotional energy. All that remains is ironic incongruity and the decadent moods that can survive irony: memory and desire -- or, rather, nostalgia and concupiscence, the feeling of memory without anything to remember and the arousal of desire without any object of desire.

It seems a cruelly small profit on our enormous investment, our vast sophistication, our wiring of the entire nation for sound. Everyone I know adores music, as I do. But our elevation of a secondary art costs us something. Music cannot build a culture, and in America today music is in the way -- keeping us from the higher arts that could aim at a unified idea and a public metaphysics, a purpose and meaning for our all-encircling noise.

Read the entire article, without being a subscriber, by clicking in the Firefox browser on this link https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/03/the-soundtracking
-of-america/378052/ followed by toggling reader view with the F9 key followed by reloading the current page with the two key combination Ctrl+R

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Sunday, May 24, 2026 1:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
The Soundtracking of America

Music made sense when the world did. Now the sense is gone, but the melody lingers on -- everywhere. We live surrounded by music, from torch songs at Starbucks to the Beatles in the elevator, and the barrage may be turning our minds to mush

By J. Bottum | March 2000 Issue
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Bottum_(author)

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/03/the-soundtracking
-of-america/378052/

. . . music stands fairly low on the traditional list of devices by which we try to understand human experience. Who ever learned anything from music except the emotional power of music? It's a thin rather than an intellectually thick art form, and a people that takes music as the highest expression has cut itself off from narrative, epic, allegory -- from the explanatory arts that could put to any use the emotions music represents.

. . . Music is not culture. It's the mist that plays above culture. A people that takes its music as fundamental art -- as we have taken music, making the all-penetrating surround of recorded noise the single most apparent fact of American society -- has mistaken the foam for the sea. "I am fond of music," Hermann Hesse observes in his novel Demian, "I think because it is so amoral." Hesse was right about music's genuine amorality: in a culture organized around good thought, music will express the moods fitting that thought, whereas in a culture organized around bad thought, music will express the moods fitting that, too.

But what happens in a culture without thought, a culture with expression but nothing to express? The way we listen to music re-creates, more than anything else, Hesse's Glass Bead Game: a complex and sophisticated rite filled with delicate connections perceived by its priestly scholastics, lacking any meaning, and consuming the culture's intellectual and emotional energy. All that remains is ironic incongruity and the decadent moods that can survive irony: memory and desire -- or, rather, nostalgia and concupiscence, the feeling of memory without anything to remember and the arousal of desire without any object of desire.

It seems a cruelly small profit on our enormous investment, our vast sophistication, our wiring of the entire nation for sound. Everyone I know adores music, as I do. But our elevation of a secondary art costs us something. Music cannot build a culture, and in America today music is in the way -- keeping us from the higher arts that could aim at a unified idea and a public metaphysics, a purpose and meaning for our all-encircling noise.

Read the entire article, without being a subscriber, by clicking in the Firefox browser on this link https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/03/the-soundtracking
-of-america/378052/ followed by toggling reader view with the F9 key followed by reloading the current page with the two key combination Ctrl+R

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

SECOND, I like being wired for sound and have grown up with pretty well any genre of music you can think of.

So drone on about music being nothing and just an emotional roller coaster. I don't care.

Here's another thought on your tirade about music being the "opioid" of the masses. Eons ago a simple drum beat could convey messages. And depending where it was being sent from could be heard a mile or so away. Those messages could have been good hunting, fire is coming, the enemy is coming and do you realize who the enemy was it was the white man. Oh, sorry. I should have qualified that by adding in colonial times and later.

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Sunday, May 24, 2026 1:42 PM

Though SIX, I've never been fond of Bob Dylan but yeah he never sold out. Another one that I don't think sold out was Arlo Guthrie, son of Woody Guthrie. Woody Guthrie travelled around the US during the Depression singing. Rode the rails as they used to say. He finally I think recorded a few albums. They should be around to this day.

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Sunday, May 24, 2026 4:45 PM

I wonder if "Revolution" could be remade today. It was and is heavily political. Gotta love the Beatles.

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Monday, May 25, 2026 6:14 PM

Probably couldn't do "Every breath you take" by the Police. Too stalkerish.

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Tuesday, May 26, 2026 9:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Probably couldn't do "Every breath you take" by the Police. Too stalkerish.

Yeah... That's a great example.

My god man. That one probably should have come with a warning.

How many kids you think grew up listening to that and thought it was normal behavior? Sounds like a love song until you really pay attention to the lyrics.

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

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Tuesday, May 26, 2026 9:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Though SIX, I've never been fond of Bob Dylan but yeah he never sold out. Another one that I don't think sold out was Arlo Guthrie, son of Woody Guthrie. Woody Guthrie travelled around the US during the Depression singing. Rode the rails as they used to say. He finally I think recorded a few albums. They should be around to this day.

I think I heard from my uncle though that there was actually some controversy with Bob Dylan and that a lot of his fans said he sold out when he started playing electric guitar.

Seems like the more things change, the more they stay the same, huh?

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

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Wednesday, May 27, 2026 12:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Probably couldn't do "Every breath you take" by the Police. Too stalkerish.

Yeah... That's a great example.

My god man. That one probably should have come with a warning.

How many kids you think grew up listening to that and thought it was normal behavior? Sounds like a love song until you really pay attention to the lyrics.

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

I know and even for the 80s it should have come with a warning.

Don't want to think how many kids that could have screwed up.

It took me a bit to see where Blair was going. He HATED that song. His law career was spent helping women and children get out of some bad, bad situations.

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Wednesday, May 27, 2026 12:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Though SIX, I've never been fond of Bob Dylan but yeah he never sold out. Another one that I don't think sold out was Arlo Guthrie, son of Woody Guthrie. Woody Guthrie travelled around the US during the Depression singing. Rode the rails as they used to say. He finally I think recorded a few albums. They should be around to this day.

I think I heard from my uncle though that there was actually some controversy with Bob Dylan and that a lot of his fans said he sold out when he started playing electric guitar.

Seems like the more things change, the more they stay the same, huh?

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

Ah, geez. We think it is ridiculous now but to the hippies that would have been the ultimate sell out. I mean how could he have given up his acoustic guitar for electric.

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Wednesday, May 27, 2026 12:12 AM

The Monkees on some of their shows at the end would do little interviews and one of them, can't remember who. He said a reporter once asked him if they played their instruments, really played and sang. I think it must have been Mike as he was the most serious of them and he told the reporter yes, they were really playing and singing on stage and on the show.

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Wednesday, May 27, 2026 2:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Probably couldn't do "Every breath you take" by the Police. Too stalkerish.

Yeah... That's a great example.

My god man. That one probably should have come with a warning.

How many kids you think grew up listening to that and thought it was normal behavior? Sounds like a love song until you really pay attention to the lyrics.

--------------------------------------------------

Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

I know and even for the 80s it should have come with a warning.

Don't want to think how many kids that could have screwed up.

It took me a bit to see where Blair was going. He HATED that song. His law career was spent helping women and children get out of some bad, bad situations.

Yeah... It's such a great sounding song and got a ton of airplay. I was around the age where I was just starting to crush on girls even though they all still had cooties and when you're a little hormone filled dummy it just sounds like what you were probably already doing in your mind.

Then you forget about it for 20 years and read an article where Sting was interviewed and he's like "of course it's a stalker anthem" with a laugh.

Yeah... It's just a weird one. That's an example of a song where it sounds great but I don't have it on my player because it says nothing I want to listen to today.

--------------------------------------------------

Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

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Wednesday, May 27, 2026 2:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Though SIX, I've never been fond of Bob Dylan but yeah he never sold out. Another one that I don't think sold out was Arlo Guthrie, son of Woody Guthrie. Woody Guthrie travelled around the US during the Depression singing. Rode the rails as they used to say. He finally I think recorded a few albums. They should be around to this day.

I think I heard from my uncle though that there was actually some controversy with Bob Dylan and that a lot of his fans said he sold out when he started playing electric guitar.

Seems like the more things change, the more they stay the same, huh?

--------------------------------------------------

Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

Ah, geez. We think it is ridiculous now but to the hippies that would have been the ultimate sell out. I mean how could he have given up his acoustic guitar for electric.

Yeah... and it was just one step down the degenerative rabbit hole in music.

But to Bob I'm sure it was just a new way of playing songs. A new tool for the artist to express themselves. I'm sure his audience changed quite a bit when he made the transition.

There's obviously nothing superior about either instrument. They're in the same family, sure, but that's about it. There are just so many things that you can do with one of them that you can't do with the other.

But the fans didn't see it that way.

They sounded just like we do today when complaining about AI generated music.

--------------------------------------------------

Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

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Wednesday, May 27, 2026 1:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Probably couldn't do "Every breath you take" by the Police. Too stalkerish.

Yeah... That's a great example.

My god man. That one probably should have come with a warning.

How many kids you think grew up listening to that and thought it was normal behavior? Sounds like a love song until you really pay attention to the lyrics.

--------------------------------------------------

Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

I know and even for the 80s it should have come with a warning.

Don't want to think how many kids that could have screwed up.

It took me a bit to see where Blair was going. He HATED that song. His law career was spent helping women and children get out of some bad, bad situations.

Yeah... It's such a great sounding song and got a ton of airplay. I was around the age where I was just starting to crush on girls even though they all still had cooties and when you're a little hormone filled dummy it just sounds like what you were probably already doing in your mind.

Then you forget about it for 20 years and read an article where Sting was interviewed and he's like "of course it's a stalker anthem" with a laugh.

Yeah... It's just a weird one. That's an example of a song where it sounds great but I don't have it on my player because it says nothing I want to listen to today.

--------------------------------------------------

Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

I have it on tape but I don't listen to it much. I've two or three Police songs on tape. Maybe another one of Sting solo.

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Wednesday, May 27, 2026 1:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Though SIX, I've never been fond of Bob Dylan but yeah he never sold out. Another one that I don't think sold out was Arlo Guthrie, son of Woody Guthrie. Woody Guthrie travelled around the US during the Depression singing. Rode the rails as they used to say. He finally I think recorded a few albums. They should be around to this day.

I think I heard from my uncle though that there was actually some controversy with Bob Dylan and that a lot of his fans said he sold out when he started playing electric guitar.

Seems like the more things change, the more they stay the same, huh?

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

Ah, geez. We think it is ridiculous now but to the hippies that would have been the ultimate sell out. I mean how could he have given up his acoustic guitar for electric.

Yeah... and it was just one step down the degenerative rabbit hole in music.

But to Bob I'm sure it was just a new way of playing songs. A new tool for the artist to express themselves. I'm sure his audience changed quite a bit when he made the transition.

There's obviously nothing superior about either instrument. They're in the same family, sure, but that's about it. There are just so many things that you can do with one of them that you can't do with the other.

But the fans didn't see it that way.

They sounded just like we do today when complaining about AI generated music.

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

Yeah, and I'm sure to Bob it was just that. I bet his audiences did change. Doing that probably attracted a younger crowd that were just starting to hear electric. Jimi Hendrix played at Woodstock and all he played was electric.

Audiences changed. Beatles fans were really p'od when they broke up even though they knew it long before it happened.

Yup. Strange thing.

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Wednesday, May 27, 2026 1:34 PM

Wonder about Roxanne?

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Wednesday, May 27, 2026 7:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Wonder about Roxanne?

I think you're right, but probably not for the reasons you're thinking.

My guess is that the Lefties in the US would come out screaming about a no-good man trying to talk a "sex-worker" out of her lucrative, independent career taking advantage of poor and stupid men.

The average collage educated woman in America LOVES "sex-workers" and online whore culture. If they aren't one, they secretly or not even secretly wish they could be one.

I'm just thinking about some of the lines now...

"You don't have to wear that dress tonight".

You're damn right I don't have to wear it. I do what I want. Imma go make me some money since you're a broke ass scrub.

Yeah... I think they'd view the song as trying to shame the poor "sex-workers".

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

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Wednesday, May 27, 2026 7:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
I have it on tape but I don't listen to it much. I've two or three Police songs on tape. Maybe another one of Sting solo.

Wow... that's about my count too.

Synchronicity II is hand's down my favorite song of theirs. Don't Stand So Close To Me is a certified banger. Every Breath You Take would be the third if it wasn't for the lyrics.

I love Sting's solo song Desert Rose.

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

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Wednesday, May 27, 2026 7:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Yeah, and I'm sure to Bob it was just that. I bet his audiences did change. Doing that probably attracted a younger crowd that were just starting to hear electric. Jimi Hendrix played at Woodstock and all he played was electric.

Audiences changed. Beatles fans were really p'od when they broke up even though they knew it long before it happened.

Yup. Strange thing.

Yeah...

30 years from now kids are going to wonder how we even made music without AI.

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

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Wednesday, May 27, 2026 11:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Wonder about Roxanne?

I think you're right, but probably not for the reasons you're thinking.

My guess is that the Lefties in the US would come out screaming about a no-good man trying to talk a "sex-worker" out of her lucrative, independent career taking advantage of poor and stupid men.

The average collage educated woman in America LOVES "sex-workers" and online whore culture. If they aren't one, they secretly or not even secretly wish they could be one.

I'm just thinking about some of the lines now...

"You don't have to wear that dress tonight".

You're damn right I don't have to wear it. I do what I want. Imma go make me some money since you're a broke ass scrub.

Yeah... I think they'd view the song as trying to shame the poor "sex-workers".

--------------------------------------------------

Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

Yeah, you are probably closer to what people would think of that song now. I was thinking more along the lines of being possessive of someone.

This is another one I have one tape.

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