Club Confused by KaySky

Quote:
Originally posted by Bleyddyn:
Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
you read my aim messages! yay!!!!!

I added quite a few browncoats to my buddy list when the Virtual Shindigs started. I rarely chat with any of them outside the VShins, but quite a few have entertaining status messages
--Bleyddyn

Same here. I just wish I could make the shindigs.

I wonder how that evil monkey's doin...

www.thatweirdgirl.com
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Thursday, March 17, 2005 2:06 PM

STILLSHINY

((knocks on door and gives sheepish grin))

Um, mind if I drop in. I bring, obscure poetry, sci-fi geekdom galore, a love for Angel & Firefly, & a decent collection of late 80's Alternative music & a funny appreciation for many things irish.

Check out my shop! Firefly & LOST products.
http://www.zazzle.com/contributors/products/gallery/browse_results.asp
?cid=238187680745956238

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

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Thursday, March 17, 2005 4:18 PM

Confuzzled me for years:

Why did they drive the chevy to the levee if the levee was dry?? Must be something about that whiskey and rye...

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Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:31 PM

RAT

...May be 'Vader some day later, now he's just a small guy...

Sorry...I'll stop now.

-Ratboy

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Friday, March 18, 2005 2:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Rat:
...May be 'Vader some day later, now he's just a small guy...

Sorry...I'll stop now.

-Ratboy

*snicker*

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Friday, March 18, 2005 3:39 PM

THETRAINJOBMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by montanagirl:
To help bring the silliness back

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Well, I never saw anything except dots and blobs, no matter what I tried, and I gave up on the effort altogether after about 20 minutes of fruitless visual contortions. I'm convinced the whole thing was a cruel hoax and that anyone who said they could see the kittens or kites (oohing and ahhing all the while) was only afraid of being labeled a boob for not seeing them. Kind of like the Emperor's clothing that only the truly enlightened could see.
_________________________________________________

"No one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!" Monty Python's Flying Circus

YES!!!

I always felt like an idiot because I could never see anything in those stupid pictures, and I tried. I strongly identified with the guy in Mallrats who had been staring at the picture for a good hour, then had a little kid walk up, glance at the picture and say, "It's a schooner."

To contribute a bit late to the whole 3D pictures (also known as sterograms) discussion, it's not just a matter of technique, there is also a definite medical reason why some people just can't see them.

They rely on your 3D depth perception working properly and anyone who doesn't have perfect 3D stereo vision will usually have difficulty seeing them. In fact, this is what they were originally designed for, as a test of depth perception.

Both my brother and I have a condition that results in our optic nerves being differently wired to normal. A consequence of this is that our 3D depth perception doesn't work at all because our brains don't combine the images from both eyes to produce a 3D view, instead one eye is dominant and we get a sort of double-vision.
This means we could never see those pictures how hard we tried, the same applied to other members of my family, those that had good depth perception could see them, those that didn't, couldn't see them.

A good simple test of depth perception ability is to hold out two pencils in front of you, one in each hand, and try to touch their tips together. If you can do it then your depth perception is working correctly.

---------------------------------------------
Kaylee: "No call to be snappy, Jayne."
Jayne: "Are *you* about to jump onto a moving train?!"

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Saturday, March 19, 2005 1:28 AM

EMMA

Why, oh why do I find forums so confuzzing, I am easily confuzzed, but I read these boards and feel like hiding in a ship full of cows...

heeeeeeelllpp me I am drowning in cow poo

I really should get me a signature

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Monday, March 21, 2005 5:19 PM

Here! Grab my arm!!

Another confusion for me: Why do birds suddenly appear, everytime you are near?

Anyone? Anyone?

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Monday, March 21, 2005 8:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Elwoodmom:
[BAnother confusion for me: Why do birds suddenly appear, everytime you are near?

Anyone? Anyone?

No idea...but jake always asks me that...he's afraid they're going to start messing with his car...i'm not allowed to sing that song anymore just in case.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
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Monday, March 21, 2005 8:34 PM

THEREALME

Quote:
Originally posted by Elwoodmom:
Here! Grab my arm!!

Another confusion for me: Why do birds suddenly appear, everytime you are near?

Anyone? Anyone?

Just like me, they want to be, close to you!

Furthermore, nobody drowns in cow poo on MY watch!

* The Real Me helps Elwoodmom's rescue operation. *

The Real Me, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

(The Real Me cannot currently receive messages from this site; he is not ignoring you. But he CAN receive e-mail at realme@pcibroadband.net.)

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Monday, March 21, 2005 9:01 PM

Elwoodmom queried:

Quote:
...Why do birds suddenly appear, everytime you are near?...

Ummm, perhaps you suffered a sharp blow to your cranium?

Actually, I've never noticed birds appearing around me, suddenly or otherwise; but, I do know that they invariably -- and suddenly -- appear whenever a Beechjet gets on short final...

Observantly,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -'Cayce Pollard', Pattern Recognition, by William Gibson

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Monday, March 21, 2005 9:57 PM

EMMA

Quote:
Furthermore, nobody drowns in cow poo on MY watch!

ooooh, my hero

I get the birdy thing too, nice little bluebirds on my shoulder, but then I sing and they explode...

I really should get me a signature

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Thursday, March 24, 2005 6:02 PM

My cranium is fine, thankyouverymuch! But I wonder...Why do stars fall down from the sky, everytime you walk by?

Song sound familiar now?

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Thursday, March 24, 2005 6:03 PM

You sing great!

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Friday, March 25, 2005 12:54 AM

Elwoodmom:

Ah, thank you! I recalled the song before; but thanks for bringing back teen-aged memories of the late, great K. Carpenter.

"Why do birds
Suddenly appear,
Ev'ry time
You are near?

Just like me
They walked into
A big oak tree!

Why do stars
Float around my eyes,
Ev'ry time
You walk by?

..."

That song, right?

Dazedly,

zoid

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Friday, March 25, 2005 3:38 AM

REZLEOG2

This may be off the subject(s) of the current discussions, but its my pet confusion, and I would like to voice it, even though I have many times before. Besides, it directly relates to Firefly.

Why is it that everytime I find something that I really (REALLY) love, they take it off the market????

Rezleog

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Friday, March 25, 2005 3:50 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Rezleog2:
This may be off the subject(s) of the current discussions,

I don't really think anything could be OT at this point...
Quote:

Why is it that everytime I find something that I really (REALLY) love, they take it off the market????

Rezleog

oh, it was YOUR fault!
because the shows I love usually last at least a year
before they are cancelled

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Friday, March 25, 2005 4:34 AM

REZLEOG2

Quote:
oh, it was YOUR fault!
because the shows I love usually last at least a year
before they are cancelled

I can't believe you want to blame it on me.
And all this time I thought I was among friends

Rezleog

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Friday, March 25, 2005 7:10 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Rezleog2:

I thought I was among friends

oh no! I've been rude to a newbie...
mea culpa!

I've been rude to everybody this morning,
maybe I should just put in my Firefly DVDs and avoid people today....

and regarding an earlier conversation:

On the day that you were born
the angels got together
and decided to make a great big stew

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Friday, March 25, 2005 2:39 PM

embers:

So they sprinkled paprika in your hair,
And stuck decorative toothpicks in your eyes of blue!

-zed

P.S.
Where were you when I needed a second line of poetry on the "Just wondering..." thread? Nobody took the bait on that one. I was beginning to think no one was familiar with the concept of community poetry.

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Friday, March 25, 2005 3:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Where were you when I needed a second line of poetry on the "Just wondering..." thread? Nobody took the bait on that one. I was beginning to think no one was familiar with the concept of community poetry.

well, i finished it in my head...does that count? I wasn't sure it was appropriate for a community board.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
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Friday, March 25, 2005 3:46 PM

TiPpY wrote:

Quote:
well, i finished it in my head...does that count? I wasn't sure it was appropriate for a community board.

What's wrong with 'bucket'?

-zed

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Friday, March 25, 2005 4:41 PM

right...bucket

www.thatweirdgirl.com
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Friday, March 25, 2005 5:00 PM

you and your clean mind....

Okay...I'll play...no bucket...no Nan...and clean TiPpY thoughts...

There once was a man from Nantucket

www.thatweirdgirl.com
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Friday, March 25, 2005 8:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:

Elwoodmom:

Ah, thank you! I recalled the song before; but thanks for bringing back teen-aged memories of the late, great K. Carpenter.

"Why do birds
Suddenly appear,
Ev'ry time
You are near?

Just like me
They walked into
A big oak tree!

Why do stars
Float around my eyes,
Ev'ry time
You walk by?

..."

That song, right?

Dazedly,

zoid

*chuckle* Yeah, something like that! So, are you still confused?

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Friday, March 25, 2005 9:01 PM

Great big stew...mmmmm, I'm hungry! I never knew what she was singing there, thanks for clearing it up with me!

*L*

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Friday, March 25, 2005 9:03 PM

That is why all the flies in town, follow you, all around!

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Saturday, March 26, 2005 1:05 AM

TiPpY:

Who traded his car for a ducat,

-zed

P.S.
That's 'ducat' as in movie ticket...

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Saturday, March 26, 2005 1:13 AM

Elwoodmom:

Just like me (sung 'may'),
They long to lay,
Eggs in you!

-zed

P.S.
Hey, you went with the 'flies' thing...

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Saturday, March 26, 2005 7:59 AM

There once was a man from Nantucket

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Who traded his car for a ducat,

He really wanted to see

www.thatweirdgirl.com
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Saturday, March 26, 2005 10:53 AM

TETHYS

Quote:
Originally posted by KaySky:
Quote:
Originally posted by lissa:
why are guys completely unintelligible and completely clear at the same time?

~lissa, spwhore

On the subject of men, do they really like blonds better?

I just spent $150 and 3 hrs. of my day at the salon changing my hair to blond yet again. After the salon I stopped by a sandwich shop to pick up something to drink and I get asked out by the sandwich guy. I've been to that sandwich shop at least a dozen times in the last few months and he's waited on me, but now suddenly that I'm blond I get asked out. I so do not get that.

Please, men, enlighten me.

****

Being clueless is a good thing.

Here's your enlightenment. Not all guy slike blondes. Actually isn't even most. Most prefer darker haired women (mystery and all that jazz I suppose) Personally, give me a redhead anyday o:O Yes, it's the celt in me LOL

"Your mouth is talking. Might wanna look to that"
I am: http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/bigcat.htm

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Saturday, March 26, 2005 1:06 PM

TiPpY:

"The Big Damn Movie,"

-zed

P.S.
Good luck with the ending, heh-heh...

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Saturday, March 26, 2005 1:23 PM

tethys, et al:

I prefer dark-haired, dark-eyed girls. When was the last time you heard a brunette joke?

Q: "What do you call a brunette talking with two blondes?"

A: "The interpreter."

As for redheads, if it's just bottle-red or henna rinse, fine. An actual redhead? Umm, better you than me! Just foolin' around may be alright, but to actually live with one?

Hey, it's all a matter of personal taste and experience. But every real redhead I've ever met (male or female) was as mean as a snake. Confrontational. A little sadistic (or a lot).

One way or the other, the whole 'blondes have more fun' is Madison Avenue brainwashing at it's best. If you have more fun as a blonde, it's because you let yourself have more fun when you're blonde. Having fun -- as in 'getting hit on more' -- is strictly about you feeling more confident and being more receptive...

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Two blondes vacationing in San Antonio find themselves separated, on opposite sides of the Riverwalk. One blonde shouts to the other, "Hey! How do I get to the other side?" The other blonde shouts back, "You ditz! You're already on the other side!"

P.P.S.
Yeah, I know, Joss is a true redhead. Here's hoping he'd be an exception to my experience.
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Saturday, March 26, 2005 2:28 PM

TETHYS

Ahhhhh the infamous temper of the natural redhead. I will say the reputation, by and large is *sorta* deserved. LOL My wife is, of course, VISIBILY irish (red hair, temper, and all), though quick to anger, usually is quick to cool off.....and the make-up mmmmmmmm LOL.

At least where my wife is concerned, it is definately worth it to live with, in more ways than one (not just the infamous physicality of the redhead), though at times it takes some patience o:O

"Your mouth is talking. Might wanna look to that"
I am: http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/bigcat.htm

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Saturday, March 26, 2005 2:34 PM

TETHYS

errrr

Q: How do you keep a blonde busy?

A: Give her some M&M's and tell her to put them in aphabetical order

Q: Same as above.
A: Put her in a round room and tell her to stand in the corner.

Q: What do you call two blondes in a row?
A: A wind tunnel.

******For mature people only******

Select to view spoiler:

Q: Why did the blonde have lipstick on her stearing wheel?
A: she tried to blow the horn.

Q: Why did the blonde have a bruise on her belly button?
A: Her boyfriend is blonde, too.

Forgive the tasteless ones, I am at work so my mood is rather.........funky. Then again, I created not a one of them, simply repeated those that have circulated for decades o:O

"Your mouth is talking. Might wanna look to that"
I am: http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/bigcat.htm

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Saturday, March 26, 2005 5:48 PM

tethys:

I'm not even talkin' about hot temper. I'm talking about a vicious streak.

But the good news is you married one of the good ones. My paternal Grandma was a flaming redhead, and she was just as sweet as she could be, to me. Then again, my Grampa didn't give her any sh!t, and he was a man well known for his intemperate disposition (although again, he was an absolute angel to me).

*Sniffle* I miss my grandparents, and my Dad. Think I'll call my Mom before I go to bed (which is now).

v/r,
-zed

P.S.
My paternal grandparents barely spoke English, being 'Cadians (e.g., 'Cajuns'). Very loud, very lively, very loving...

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Saturday, March 26, 2005 8:52 PM

Well Mr. Zed, it's not very good, but I finished it:

There once was a man from Nantucket
Who traded his car for a ducat,
He really wanted to see
The Big Damn Movie
And so to the theater he trucked it

ta-da!

TiPpY

www.thatweirdgirl.com
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Sunday, March 27, 2005 1:09 AM

TiPpY:

Brava! With the exception of the extra beat in your 3rd line, it is limerick. How about:

"There once was a man from Nantucket
Who traded his car for a ducat,
He wanted to see
The Big Damn Movie
And so to the theater he trucked it."

Not likely to be confused with Lerner and Loew, are we? Still, not too bad, considering the 'man from Nantucket' seed.

Poetically,

zoid

P.S.
"There once was a girl from Wisconsin,"

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Sunday, March 27, 2005 9:23 AM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG

For Zoid - A detailed explanation of growing hatred

Hatred is completely irrational. I'm probably gonna come off as a complete jerk for this story but my life's an open book so I figured I'd try and give you an explanation.

Until recently I'd never hated anyone, not even many people I'd disliked to be honest and though I no longer hate the person in question I thought I'd try and give you an explanation of what happened starting from the point we met until now:

We met about two years ago at karaoke, she was a friend of a friend of a friend. We got on pretty well, me and my friends would go to karaoke every week and she'd always make an effort to come over and say hello to us. It kinda irritated me that she was so over-familiar off the bat but she seemed nice enough, didn't have much in common but nice (I'm going to use that word a lot here, I can tell...). This went on to the point that she started trying to hang out with us outside karaoke. No-one really knew her (or was sure how we knew her to at that point), no-one was really comfortable with her being there but she was nice so how do you tell someone like that you're not really friends?

She had no opinion of her own and would just try and agree with other people. On the occasions she did have an opinion she'd lie about it and try and agree with everyone else. Again, mild annoyance but not hatred.

A couple of months into the 'friendship' we were out at the pub and she got pretty drunk and started coming on to me. I did my best to explain I wasn't interested, but being drunk it fell on deaf ears. So I put up with about 3 hours of her trying to hold my hand, trying to cuddle up to me, sitting on my lap etc... She invited me back to her place, I declined, she still didn't get the hint. Eventually I did what any man would do, I ran away to a friend's house. I think hatred started brewing at this point.

She decided to avoid me for the next week or so but it kept coming through mutual friends she was embarrased and didn't want to face me. This was good I thought, she realises her mistake, it'll be fine.

6 months pass without incident and we're back to mild annoyance.

Start of this academic year she starts hanging out in the coffee shop on campus. For the past two years this has been mine and my friends hang-out as we wait for (or more accurately avoid) lectures, so I'm seeing her most days, she's still exactly the same: World revolves around her but she agrees with everyone else. Hatred is respawned.

She starts inviting herself to my house, unfortunately she keeps bringing friends who I get on really well so I let her. Because she always tries to bring the conversation back around her I don't get any time to talk to anyone else so I start hanging out with her friends behind her back (man, how childish does that sound?)

Somehow she gets my e-mail address and adds me to messenger. I start getting messages 5-6 times a day. Nothing bad, just "how are you?" "what are you up to?" kinda stuff. All the time. I get up, there are messages. I get home there are messages. I go to the toilet, there are messages. It's about this time hatred kicks in. I can't explain why but it's a very physical hatred. My whole body felt tense around her, I started smoking when she's around to deal with it. It made no sense but I couldn't cope with her in my life.

I block her from messenger. I stop hanging out at the coffee-shop to avoid her. I don't go out if I know she'll be there. I ignore her phone calls and text messages.

At this point one of my housemates helps start a society which she joins. I can't help hanging out with her. It's not as bad as it was before but I still can't stand her. (There are stories of me standing in the middle of a crowded bar with her there drunkenly shouting "I

hate ****, I

hate her more than anyone I've ever

met. I

wish she'd never been born....")

I think maybe I'm being harsh, I try being nice to her. Focussing on the good points, because she really is a nice, hard-working person. She takes this as an invitation to start hitting on me again. We're both at a party where one of my friends has some serious problems resulting in a full on panic attack. I'm upset because of what's going on, running round trying to sort everything out and once it's all sorted, get everyone to leave. She lives near us so walks back with us. I ask her not to pry into what happened. She prys. I ask her to stop. She prys. I tell her to stop, she brings up that first time she hit on me and tries to flirt with it. I get angry. I mean really angry. I've been told since people could hear her and were getting angry too. She tries to come back to ours. We make excuses and leave, I go home and smoke a lot.

Next couple of weeks are kind of a blur. A few days later she finds out how pissed people were and apologises. I'm less mad. Impressed she had the guts to apologise. I keep hearing nice things that she's doing for the society. I get a new-found respect for her. Don't like hanging out with her but (for the final time) she's nice so I can cope.

That pretty much brings us up to the present. I don't hate her at the moment, but can't say I like her at all. I hope this helps your understanding of hate. Having gone through it personally , I still don't understand it. I don't know how hatred happens, I know I don't want to hate someone again because it really is a physical thing and makes you feel horrible. I don't know how it changed from dislike to hate or back again, and I think a lot of people who claim to hate someone just severely dislike them.

Yours,

Chronic
Campaigning for longest post ever....

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Wednesday, March 30, 2005 11:32 AM

chronicthehedgehog:

First: Dude, I wasn't ignoring you. I got reeeaaallly sick Sun-Mon (think Linda Blair), then I got sidetracked with other altruistic endeavors. Did I mention the whole sainthood thing? While many miraculous events -- not just three -- have surrounded my life, there have also been many events and personal acts that only Jesus is gonna be able to get me out of. So, I'm not getting a letter from the Vatican, ever, unless they decide I owe 'em for that unpaid subscription to Boy's Life, circa 1972... (Ummm, oops!)

Second: All attempts at humor aside, yes, that definititely sounds like the kind of hatred I was talking about, or at least one of the types. Very dangerous. The kind of hatred that scares me most is the off-the-cuff, habitual and sincere, "I hate Joe/sephine, and I'm going to go out of my way to make her/his life a living hell. And if s/he offs her/imself as a result of how thorough a job I've done, I will rub my hands in glee, then dance on the grave."

That kind of hatred is really out there in the world, it's really just that casual and callous, and it's not just 'born rotten' people practicing it. Lot's of good people wind up being just as casual about hatred, and I suspect it's because of experiences very much like yours, or even because of experiences very much like the lady in question. There's two sides to every story, and I guarantee both participants are hero/ines in their version. (NB: The same is true of international conflicts and national politics, folks. Hello? Is this thing on?)

Now, in your defense, human beings have an unnerving tendency to forget that they're still animals. "We're humans," they think, "and evolved past such petty drives as mating instincts and pecking orders!" Well, take the kiddies out of the room so they don't hear this, but, "Bullshit!" Human beings are every bit the social apes they ever were, and pecking order conflicts arise in every social environment (yes, even in church). One can be aware of the situation and try to negotiate a peaceful resolution; but, that's only gonna work if everybody's on the same page. Good luck finding that group of associates...

Following the analogy a bit further, your country's Barbara Woodhouse was a phenom of dog training (and some said owner training) by utilizing pecking order, establishing herself as the 'Alpha'. She said the only dog she could not train was the one who had no sense of the pecking order, one that was "schizophrenic". Reading your post, I'm inclined to believe one or a combination of the following:

1. The young lady in question has no innate sense of pecking order. She doesn't register the subtle cues of body language and facial expression. While it's quite natural for individuals of our species to seek out and associate with others (no one is a natural exclusive loner), it's also natural to eventually settle into one's place within the group; the conflict and scuffle don't last for two years. Luckily for humans, we are not so tied to one specific group as dogs, and can migrate to other groups if we are unsatisfied with our assigned place in the 'pack'. If we find an attractive pack (or are born into one, in the case of childhood friends), and then play pecking order games until we find an equilibrium within the group -- where everyone has a role and is comfortable with it -- then we are all perfectly happy. When someone else comes along, wanting to join the pack, that equilibrium is upset right down the ranks. That's why there's resistance to such overtures from the outsider. That's why, even in human 'packs', there's at least one Alpha: To settle disputes that don't settle themselves.

2. Your pack either has no Alpha, or the Alpha is not doing her/his job. That particular Somebody should have confronted the lady in question and shown her her place, or shown her the door, in no uncertain terms. Generally speaking, this would have been a female in the group; for a male misfitting interloper, it would have been a male. Because that Somebody didn't 'slap her snout', it leads to the next possibility...

3. Your group's Alpha is challenging you indirectly. S/He likes seeing you at a disadvantage, and values the notion that you are uncomfortable. Alternatively, s/he may have decided -- unconsciously or otherwise -- that this female is a good mate for you, and that such a pairing is of benefit to you or the group. Either way, it's bad leadership: Lack of insight, lack of judgement, lack of care for individuals (because you're not just uncomfortable, you are obviously being abused), and so on. If you're not being protected, you're in a self-destructive group; move away.

But, we are evolved enough to make intellectual analyses, and take steps to ameliorate the raw responses of our intrinsic animal instincts. We can decide to play the instinctive games intelligently, even if we can't fully divorce ourselves from the glandular responses they provoke.

You have failed to do that. You have never stood up to this young woman, according to your account, except when she was inebriated and intellectually incapacitated. At that point, you cannot reason with her, only give in to your own basest behaviors, like shouting your anger and allowing yourself to be filled with hatred.

I would say this young lady has her sights set on you as a preferred mating candidate. According to your account, she has not only made sexual advances on you, but has gone out of her way to skillfully craft social situations that you will find attractive; furthermore, she has been successful in making her nest for you, not once but three times. She is a University student and an astute engineer of social environments. I would argue that -- regardless the distaste you feel for her physically -- she is not as vacuous and insipid as you have painted her. Let's just say she's not your cup of tea, and leave it at that.

Armed with the propositions that: a) this young woman is only trying to construct a group dynamic in which you and she can form a successful sexual partnership; b) the non-zero possibility that the leadership of your group likewise thinks it's a beneficial pairing; c) you find her unacceptable in such a role, as a matter of personal taste; and d) that you are a rational human being, capable of sidestepping raw animal emotion and are genuinely indisposed to causing another person pain; here is what you should consider doing. (I'm saying it again: "Consider this course of action.")

Invite her to lunch in a public though not overly busy place, perhaps even a picnic on the Uni's park (right in the middle, not under a tree or near the hedges). Very important: No other person may be present; there are some things a man's got to do on his own, or else learn to just keep on taking it, until violence erupts. The same will be true, many times over, in the 'real world' after graduation. This must be a one-on-one, sober, daylit heart to heart chat about how you feel, and then you must be willingly attentive to her expressions of how she feels.

What Not To Say:

Anything about her: Okay, that's not realistic; but this should be the rule, rather than the exception. Don't make it all her fault, even if that's the way you see it. Realize that your perceptions on this subject -- and everything it touches upon -- are poisoned by your strong emotional responses. Instead, focus on things that you know are solid about yourself. Ergo...

What To Say:

Remove as much emotional content as you can from negative statements: For example, even though it's harder to say past the lump in your throat, it's essential to say, "I'm not sexually attracted to you, in any way," (just try to break the ice a little first, huh?) in a very flat firm voice. Do not say, "You are unattractive in every way". Please notice the subtle difference. The first is a definite statement of personal taste; the second is an indefinite attack on some overarching aspect of her personality/physicality that leaves her no room for retreat with her self-respect intact.

Also notice that I specified "sexually attractive", since this appears to be the main cause of your most visceral reactions to her: If she's not hitting on you, she's tolerable. If she were suddenly no longer sexually testing your waters -- as a result of this conversation, say -- and found another object for her affections, chances are your discomfort around her would dissipate almost entirely, and you might even become close acquaintances (okay, maybe not).

No doubt about it, it's a tough spot, brother. But you're responsible for the depths to which your inaction has led you. I'm not unsympathetic. But you've got to stop relying on 'your mates' so much, and take some matters into your own hands, to ensure your own well-being. Allowing yourself to slip into self-destructive behaviors -- while understandable -- is irresponsible.

Just remember to treat her with the same care and respect you would wish to be treated with under similar circumstances. How would it feel to you, if a woman you were absolutely smitten with treated you with veiled distaste, then shouted obscenities at you while you were drunk, probably because you were frustrated at being unable to attract her, even though you kept coming up with novel and successful ideas to entice her into your sphere of association? I mean, it's not like she ever came out and told you in so many words that she didn't fancy you, right? The door was never proclaimed sealed; you just had to find the right key...

I'm sad to say it, but only a fool hates someone for adoring him. I'm not saying you are a fool; I'm just saying you're acting like one. Now, stop it.

Very Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Have I lived through a similar situation myself? More than once. However, by being my own Alpha, my own leader, I was able to transmute the situation to a productive association for my group. My 'young lady in question' was simply lonely: A long way from home and her own friends, and only wanted to be warmed by a circle of acquaintances. The world can be a very lonely place, can it not? She figured she had to 'sleep' her way into the pack, and fixated on me. I was distinctly not attracted to her (much as in your case). She came to my room one night, pissed as a newt, and proceeded to strip off. I got up from my bed, put on my pants and left the room, leaving the door open. The next day, I had that quiet conversation with her over lunch. The following day, I made sure she ate lunch with the entire circle of associates. She cooled her jets on the entire sex subject and was a 'good pal' to everyone thereafter. I'm quite certain she still felt unrequited -- in the sexual sense -- since she occasionally mentioned it in an unspecific "I'm horny" sort of way to the entire group. Unfortunately for her, no one found her acceptable (I suspect more because her forceful personality gave her an uncomfortably masculine flair); but some crosses must be borne by the individual. Regardless, she decided her place in the 'pack' was acceptable and drastically reduced the self- and group-destructive behavior.

P.P.S.
Nobody takes the Sceptre of Longest Post from zoid...
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Wednesday, March 30, 2005 12:41 PM

EMBERS

but, zoid, was she a natural redhead?

both curious AND confused,
Maribeth (embers)

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Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:35 PM

CHRISISALL

I think I can say something about the nature of hate that I've not seen yet.
Background: I try to always remember we are all one; everyone out there is who I might be if I had been born into thier body and life, I try to be as Buddist about all judgements as I can, and I truly hated one person.
To be brief, my wife's ex-husband, whom I was prepared to accept into my life as he was now my stepson's father. I never liked him much ( told my wife after I saw him yell the first time her 3 year old son might be better off never seeing him again), but during 9 years I saw him go from being bad to worse with respect to his son, always dissapointing him, making him feel unloved, verbally abusing him yet never leaving the picture as if to torture his son for his own inability to keep his family together. I even tried to talk to him as if he were a loving dad about his son, but (obviously) to no avail.
One day, when my stepson was about ten his father returned him on a weekend he was spending with his father 6 hours after he picked his son up for having soiled himself (a condition he developed around 5 yrs old due to stress about his father)
and told his son " Now I'm not having you over until next month!"
That night I was overcome with a notion: what if next time I saw him I crushed his throat (I practice mariial arts, it would not have been impossible) and tell the police he started the fight? He had a record of threatening many with that bad temper...HE DESERVES IT!
Next day I was down to just wishing he was dead.

So I feel hate is wanting someone to be gone so bad that you could actually see yourself escorting them off this mortal coil yourself. Somewhat unsettlin'.

Epilogue to the above: after not visiting his son ( then 13)for months he saw him for a couple of hours one day, and then killed himself with multiple rattlesnake bites to his chest while drunk the next week. It was his pet.
He hated himself more than I or anyone else ever did.

Feel sorry for however life twisted him, but won't say the world would be better if he stayed.

My one and only absolutly serious post.

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:45 PM

chrisisall:

I think I said something similar in one of my first (very long-winded) posts on the topic; but here goes again: Sometimes you cannot mend the fundamental disconnect that separates you from another. In my case, since I never hate, it's because that other is on a self-destructive jag. They simply can't pull themselves out of the downward spiral, for whatever reason. They're not ready to receive help and will drag you down with them, if you come within arm's reach of them, like a drowning man.

As the father of a 'non-biological' daughter, whose genetic father used to routinely physically abuse my wife in the most horrific way when they were married, and who neglected his daughter during and after the divorce, I can relate to what you're saying. We avoided him, helped by the courts initially (I think he'd have eventually worked up the alcoholic fortitude and finished the job), and then by moving lock, stock and barrel beyond his reach to the US. But, I did not hate him; mostly, I just felt very sad for him, and for all those his behavior hurt. Of course, I was not forced into regular contact with him as you were with your son's biological father; I didn't have to deal with the primal drive to protect my family. That's a huge difference in our lives. (Did I mention the many miracles of my life? I have been blessed by my God, and I don't care who knows it.)

I encouraged my daughter to stay in contact with him, but he never returned her letters. She finally, as a 24-year old, had an extended telephone conversation with him, and they planned a reunion in the UK. Within two weeks of the reunion (with her tickets already purchased), the local PCs found him hanged in his loft. It was officially ruled a suicide; but, he had notoriously crossed many people (including several of the kind you don't cross), and there was some speculation centering around him committing suicide so close to his reunion with his estranged daughter. At any rate, the truth now lies beneath the bosom of the good earth. Still, pretty similar to your experience in that respect, no? And my word upon its veracity.

My father had two estranged children from failed marriages (mothers remarried and relocated to other areas). It tortured him until the day he died, and he took great pains to amplify that torture upon himself throughout his life. How did it affect me? I felt every cut he inflicted upon himself. It hurt me as much as beating me ever could, to see a man so thoroughly destroy himself from guilt and having a piece of his soul ripped from him.

God rest my Dad, and my daughter's Dad. There is no hate in me.

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
So, okay, I'm going to go off and cry for a while now. But before I do, thank your incarnation of God of Infinite Names that you didn't actually kill your son's father. And if you believe in karma, repent the memory of the urge.
_________________________________________________

Never more apt, for me...
"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Wednesday, March 30, 2005 6:14 PM

CHRISISALL

Zoid, I do feel horrible that that urge came over me, I can only say that unless he had ever viciously attacked me or my family there was never any real chance of my putting that thought into action.
I believe we're all here to teach eachother something, sometimes things we'd rather not learn (but might need to, anyway).
I thank you for your heartfelt responce.

Peace, brother.

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, March 30, 2005 6:54 PM