Empire Online's Take on the Trailer by NervousPete

I'm glad the trailer is getting attention and all but didn't like the "niggling doubts". I hate nic-pickers. Its just the first trailer, who knows if they make another trailer. War Of The Worlds has like 4. I really don't like critics. They bum me out.

By the by, I like Han Solo!!

critics

nic-pickers

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"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step."- Lao Tzo

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:00 PM

NERVOUSPETE

Quote:
Originally posted by FallenAngel:
I'm glad the trailer is getting attention and all but didn't like the "niggling doubts". I hate nic-pickers. Its just the first trailer, who knows if they make another trailer. War Of The Worlds has like 4. I really don't like critics. They bum me out.

By the by, I like Han Solo!!

critics
nic-pickers

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"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step."- Lao Tzo

I can forgive the niggling doubts. Empire has had a pretty consistent low key harping on about the might that is Firefly and Serenity, and if they like the film they will praise it to the nines - and not get bogged down in the main review in nit-picking.

Only them and SFX are really mentioning this movie so far, this early, in the UK - and I say thank you Empire as a result!

Make no mistake, Empire love Firefly, and just wanted to impart some of the coolness of the DVD boxset to non-converts, no doubt, in their nit-picking phase. Check their message board! Chock a block with Firefly flans!

http://ubb.empireonline.co.uk/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB24

Number Two in the discussions of favourite films, and with ten pages dedicated.

They're a shiny magazine!

Pete

"If you can keep your head whilst others... eurgh! Ack! I've spilt my ink! Ugh! Ink on my trousers! Agh! Ink on my shirt! My only hope! The window! Aieeeeee!" (Falls to death)
- Jonathan Nash

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:48 PM

MACBAKER

Quote:
Joss Whedon has also broken his promise, and the laws of physics, by apparently adding in sound effects to the space battles. Presumably the studio couldn't be convinced that a few banjo twangs were good enough. - Jonathan Nash

As much as I loved the trailer, the sound in space was a big negative! What a disapointment, that the Studio forced that on Joss.

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 2:49 PM

GTHING

Hopefully I won't find myself on FallenAngel's bad side. But the more I watch the trailer, the more I think about all the people I know who most likely be turned off by it. Like many other recent sci-fi movies, this trailer is flooded with quick moving images boom boom boom! It looks like they put these shots that last only a split-second up just to look cool. Played in slow-motion (Yeah, that's right, I'm a hack.), the images from the film look really good; they were enough to get me excited, but that was without live action. And while River's ninja kicks I'm sure will look great in the actual movie, the trailer plays it like it's some kind of Matrix rip-off complete with the heavy metal and techno music. "Joss Whedon's Unique Vision of the Future" ... what unique vision of the future?

Bottom line, as far as this fan is concerned, the trailer just looks a little like Firefly, but it doesn't feel anything like Firefly. Gorrammit! Just show us a soothing scene on Inara's shuttle; and a scene where Kaylee's looking at the bright side of life and being proud of her ship. What the hell, why not have a scene where Mal's enjoying a part of his ship with great pride. What's wrong with having a scene where Jayne's saying something absurd and self-degrading in his usual charming manner (charming in an all-manly non-sexual way)? There, mix some of that together and you've got something movie-goers will find interesting. Then, show us an action scene and don't add any stunts or funky music; just keep the action the way it's supposed to be. Then, I think you've got yourselves a hit. With this trailer, the one that was actually used, I think you've got yourselves a maybe. I'm just hoping for good things from the TV spots right now.

Excerpt from My Genre Geek Resume:
~huge Odyssey 5 fan (despite its cancellation)
~dangerously obsessed with BtVS and Angel
~former Andromeda fan

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 3:57 PM

I couldn't agree more GThing. As exciting as it was to see our heroes in action once again, it didn't feel much like Firefly. I'm hoping that's just a product of too much 'market analysis' by the trailer editors, and not enough thought about what really makes Firefly cool.

It's yards better the that ads Fox produced, but still, techno music? vroom, vroom when ships go by? Honestly, if I wasn't already in love, I'd probably not pay much attention to the trailer, especially if I was waiting to see a movie I'd paid for. That over-the-top in your face style of promoting just turns me off.

** disclaimer to say that the actual clips in the trailer, minus the hyper edits and blaring sounds, looked very tasty indeed.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 4:59 PM

MacBaker and 'no sound in space' perfectionists:

Yes, sound will not carry in an airless vacuum; but that's only if you're in an airless environment. From inside Serenity you'd hear her engines roar, as well as any shock waves strong enough to vibrate her skin (i.e., from a nearby explosion, or a passing ship's impulse engines if the 'push' was large enough).

But that's beside the point. The 'no sounds' thing works a lot better sitting in your living room than it does sitting in a totally quiet theatre with 500 people sniffling and clearing their throats. And of course, while you'd never be able to hear an overdriven guitar in outer space either, it certainly drowns out the crying babies that inevitably find their way into the auditorium.

Putting sound effects into a 10-minute space battle sequence for a packed theater audience is the very definition of 'dramatic license', in the best possible sense of the word. We never had an extended outer space battle in the series' run. 10 minutes is a lot of silence and banjo playing...

Lighten up on the technogeekery and cut the artistic types a little slack; they know how to do their job. The trailer looks great, and if anyone seriously believes Joss Whedon is going to let us down on the story and dialogue, you can turn in your Browncoat IDs right now...

Theatrically,

zoid

P.S.
Before anyone goes there, a recent plan to divert 'possible impactor' asteroids involved a standoff nuclear blast to push the rock off course. A spaceship with an oxygen internal atmosphere, standing at minimum safe distance would still get its skin vibrated by such a blast's shock wave, and that vibration would be propagated as sound through the ship's atmosphere to our ear drums. Correlated with the flash of the detonation, our brains would interpret the resulting sound as 'an explosion'. In space.
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 5:48 PM

MACBAKER

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
MacBaker and 'no sound in space' perfectionists:

Yes, sound will not carry in an airless vacuum; but that's only if you're in an airless environment. From inside Serenity you'd hear her engines roar, as well as any shock waves strong enough to vibrate her skin (i.e., from a nearby explosion, or a passing ship's impulse engines if the 'push' was large enough).

But that's beside the point. The 'no sounds' thing works a lot better sitting in your living room than it does sitting in a totally quiet theatre with 500 people sniffling and clearing their throats. And of course, while you'd never be able to hear an overdriven guitar in outer space either, it certainly drowns out the crying babies that inevitably find their way into the auditorium.

I guess you are too young to have seen Kubrick's 2001 in a theater!

We all know about "Dramatic License", but one of the things that made Firefly unique, was that it didn't need it. In fact, in many episodes like "Out Of Gas" and "War Stories", the silence in space was more effective than using gee wiz surround sound gimics.

Will the sound effects keep me out of the theater in September? Are you high??? Of course I'll still be there. It still has Joss' signature writing brilliance and the best cast in the world. I'll be first in line at my theater on opening night.

Am I disappointed that the studio forced such a tired gimic on our BDM? Yeah! It makes it more common somehow. Firefly was never Star Trek or Star Wars. It's a shame it will now sound more like them.

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:04 PM

What MacBaker said! Exactly!

For me it has nothing to do with technorealism. It's about the poetic emptiness of space. Firefly used that as a metaphor for the overall alienation these people-on-the-edge were driven to.

I think it would even work great in the trailer. They could use the same cut/effect that was so deftly done in OOG. Shift from the roaring panic inside a ship to the deadly silence of space. That would get my attention a lot more than loud techno music and vrooming space ships. All that's been done to death.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:46 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
And by our count there are more than the six rebels the blurb counts on the run, but perhaps they know something we don’t.

Seems by way of crew, all are accounted for except Kaylee (What's she really done that's so criminal? ) Clearly Capt is a wanted reb, along w/ Zoe. Wash, because he's the pilot, not to mention 'bad guy' Jayne. Add the Tams, and that gets 6. Minus Book because he's w/ the Alliance? really just a passenger/ shepard..who knows what, and Inara..she's just along for the ride.

Still, Joss says some things need to be finished, so whose to say how the final cut will end up?

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:10 PM

MacBaker wrote, in part:

Quote:
I guess you are too young to have seen Kubrick's 2001 in a theater!

...Are you high???

Funny thing about 2001: A Space Odyssey is that so many people dropped acid to go see it, they probably did hear sounds throughout the space scenes, and the final 'hot oil' kaleidoscopic effects were anticlimactic to the 'heads' trying to keep from floating out of their theatre seats for the entire 2 1/3 hours prior. Heh, heh...

Wanna talk 'Rocky Horror', a groupie and a Mandrex? I too had a misspent youth (but I'll never forget that girl, so it was youth well-wasted). Some movie experiences are magical; let's just leave it at that.

I just don't think the 'sound or no sound' argument bears any relevance to the story. No sound = realistic. One system vs. galaxy = interesting debate. Faster than light vs. slower than light = intriguing scientific discussion.

Great story with dialogue that everyday people might say; funny in the way that people are funny in normal off-the-cuff conversation = priceless. But comparing those technical distinctions to the dramatic content of the BDM is like comparing Klingons and Romulans, if you catch my meaning (wink-wink)...

See ya' at the theatre. I'll be the guy bellowing at the top of his lungs, whooping and hollering as the BDH's kick serious Alliance ass in that 10-minute space battle. For the purists, y'all could always record ten minutes of breathing (mix the respiration rates to provide dramatic tension, throw in an 'ahem' or a little cough to show that the observer is concentrating and exerting effort). Then you could listen to it on noise-cancelling headsets (Bose makes some nice ones) at the theatre so the whole crowd losing its mind cheering won't spoil the utter silence of space for you...

v/r,
-zed

P.S.
I loved 2001: ASO. But Bowman trying to get back into the ship was the longest 2 hours of cinematic annoyance ever (okay so it was only like 5 minutes, but it seemed like two hours). All that breathing. I wanted to snip Bowman's air line! I'm sorry, Dave, but I'm with HAL on this one...

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:31 PM

Good points, Zoid.

I think for me, the gut-level emotional reasoning behind the whole sound debate has a lot to do with what we've been through as fans. To see what to us are outsiders (Universal) pushing changes on the movie just stings a little. Especially if they're doing it to pleas people who couldn't ever 'get' Firefly anyway.
Now, I fully realize that their alleged tinkering isn't even established as fact. But all the rounds of test screening worry me.

Keep Flying

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:41 PM

MOHRSTOUTBEARD

I am going to keep telling myself that the "sounds in space!" were only for the trailer. If I say it enough, it will become true.

But, I mean, isn't that more likely? Joss has been pretty vocal about the fact that Universal have not been pushing changes on him, right? And I just don't think he'd go the "sounds in space!" route just to please newcomers. By the time the film spends any large amount of time with space-oriented stuff, all the newcomers will probably be in love with the film already, anyway - they probably wouldn't get turned off by the "silence" (I'm sure there will be music and we'll be cutting back and forth between the interior and exterior of the ship).

Anyway. Jeez, everybody's gotta be so pessimistic.

------------------
"You've just gotta go ahead and change the captain of your brainship, because he's drunk at the wheel."

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:47 PM

I didn't get all bent out of shape about it until I read comments from people who had seen the latest test screenings and claimed that sound has been added. But that was a grand total of two posts, with no follow up confirmation by others, so there's a big 'ol grain of salt to be had there.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:50 PM

MOHRSTOUTBEARD

Yeah, I know. I share your worries, believe me. But I am just choosing to take the Kaylee, "always look on the bright side of life" approach to the situation and assume those people are full of crap.

------------------
"You've just gotta go ahead and change the captain of your brainship, because he's drunk at the wheel."

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:24 PM

SergeantX:

Yeah, I'm not trying to start a 'whose is longest' (er, logical argument) contest. I'm just giddy with excitement over the trailer and the coming publicity campaign. I'm just poking a little fun.

I am so seriously not worried about this movie. Know why? Because Joss is so clearly not worried about this movie. I don't know Joss from Adam (or Nathan, for that matter); but I get the distinct impression that if the studio was dicking with his story, he'd be giving us some clues.

He has such an open face and quick, stream-of-consciousness wit. If something were wrong, it'd slip out of him. We'd know (at least, I would). But he's as happy as a schoolboy, and as totally unconflicted. I can see some worry in his unguarded moments; but it's strictly because he's got so much riding on this (and not really that good at being an extrovert), not because he's being forced to remain positive.

I think it's premature (and unfair) to believe that the studio is responsible for 'sounds in space'. Maybe they are. Then again, maybe Joss thought total silence made his epic space battle tedious. Still again, we've only seen the trailer: Maybe the movie is liberally interspersed with 'silent space' perspectives.

SciFi's Battlestar Galactica's SFX are done by Zoic, the same CG team that did Firefly and Serenity (and BtVS and AtS). There are some external scenes that have sound; but by and large a Viper's weapons fire makes sounds that are heard from inside the cockpit, which is pressurized. There are also many external space scenes which are totally devoid of sound (as when Galactica loses her water). It's not as silent as Firefly, perhaps; but silence is used to great effect throughout the series. (NB: SciFi is owned by Vivendi-Universal.)

Just because we have seen a trailer with 'sound in space' doesn't necessarily mean that there are no 'silent space' scenes in the movie, or that the studio has no respect for the technique and forced Joss to amend his vision.

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
But, I will guarandamntee you that the next Con JW goes to, he'll be answering that 'sounds in space' question at least a thousand times...

P.P.S.
And I think the rapid-fire pace of the trailer is planned as well. If you go through it frame by frame, as I have begun to do, there are a lot of split-second images that amateur sleuths like yours truly will be analyzing for, oh say, 156 days...

For instance: Who is the guy the Operative lunges at and strikes? Who is the dark-haired child? What were Simon and Kaylee doing before that explosion? How does Morena get more beautiful every time I see her? Has anybody here but me read William Gibson's Pattern Recognition? If so, do you also believe (as I do) that JW is trying to take a page from that book with the whole 'split-second images embedded in the trailer' thing? So when the snooty cat, and the courageous dog, with the celebrity voices meet for the first time in reel three, that's when you'll catch a flash of Joss's contribution to the trailer.
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

(NB: I love this line. Empire Online can buss my glutes, if they didn't like it.)

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:29 PM

I don't like nic-pickers.Its a movie. Its suppose to be entertaining and fun and exciting to watch. Especialy this one. Nuff said.

I'm not at all worried about the movie and the sounds in space thing. I'm sure that Joss will not disappoint us. I can't wait for it.

I'd have to agree with Zoid that in those mintues of silence in a theatre would annoy me. I don't wanna hear somebody making a stupid comment or talking or whatever.Especialy if they haven't seen the show and doesn't understand why there is silence. I have seen movies that has those moments of silence where all the sudden somebody says something stupid or cell phone rings and a baby cries and it just takes me out of the moment of the movie. Like being pulled back in reality.GRR...ARGH. I hate that.

I liked the trailer. I thought it was great. Made me go beyond giddy-ness when I saw it. I love it.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step."- Lao Tzo

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:46 PM

RUXTON

Sounds don't belong in space.

End of discussion, and I don't give a damn who you are.

There would be no need to have absolute silence all the time, of course. Music works well. But the absolute silence of space MUST be represented, and I'm quite sure Joss Whedon knows this.

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:05 PM

Ruxton:

Ahhh! I really love a (no information available) who has the complete conviction of its own opinions...

"End of discussion, and I don't give a damn who you are."

Dismissively,
-zed
_________________________________________________

"And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling. So why don't we just ignore each other till we go away?" -Mal Reynolds

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:19 PM

RUXTON

Zoid, if you weren't so full of...yourself...I'd make a reasoned reply.

As it is, BITE ME.

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:37 PM

JADEHAND

In response to the sound in space "discussion", I haven't seen any early screenings and those of you who have(or had) the chance to do so can clear things up for us all soon, but I recall Joss saying/writing that Universal pretty much left him alone. However he also said/wrote that the studio put together the trailer, not him, he just approved it. I expect no sound in space in the actual film. The scenes in the trailer that had sound, seemed to me, to be mostly in "atmo". The others, I take it, had "wooshs" added by the studio to spice up the trailer for the non Browncoats. The trailer is supposed to sell the movie, Browncoats are already sold, we know. I don't think non browncoats will complain when there are no "wooshs". [please, let there not be "wooshes"]
Still loving the trailer,
JadeHand

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:39 PM

Ruxton:

How's this for reasoning:

You remove the offensive lines from your posts and I'll edit out the dismissive parts of mine. Then you can still have your say without insulting others (i.e., by simply removing the "End of discussion, and I don't give a damn who you are" line), and we can both get on with our lives.

...Or leave it in. Makes me no nevermind. It's a little late in the game for me to start worrying about what other people think of me. We can get down and roll around "in the mud and the blood and the beer", if you want to. I'm not fostering any political aspirations...

Negotiatively,

zoid

P.S.
Points to anyone old enough to remember the song the quote came from (no googling).
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:06 PM

Wow. I'm starting to feel some tension going on here.

You know what? I'm just so damn glad that there's a movie trailer for a tv show that was cancelled and now, brought back to life in the BIG DAMN MOVIE screen. I think its waaaaayyy too early to start critizing the movie before its even out. I'm happy with the trailer. I'm so glad with what we got and I'm not gonna change my mind about it.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step."- Lao Tzo

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:49 PM

FallenAngel:

Well, I loved it too. The trailer doesn't scare me, because I expect a trailer to be fast-paced and appetizing (in the most literal sense of the word). I don't expect the movie to be as frenetic as the trailer, and I expect the movie will have a lot more dialogue by the other characters, too, an expectation apparently doubted by Empire Online's reviewer.

I am a Firefly fan, as opposed to a Joss fan who watched Firefly strictly because of Buffy/Angel (neither of which I personally cared for). But Firefly and Serenity are Joss Whedon creations. So, I'll simply say, "In Joss I trust." He won my faith with the Firefly series, and deserves my trust for Serenity. Quite apart from purely mechanical quibbles, I expect him to weave me a masterful tale. Suspending my disbelief and just enjoying the ride should prove exceedingly easy...

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Why do people obsess over Firefly's 'no sound in space' motif, yet so totally overlook every sci-fi tv/movie property's abuse of gravity? With the notable exception of 2001: ASO, which got it absolutely right. I guess it's just a matter of 'selective blindness'. And yeah, I know that they close the cargo door and gravity returns to normal. Uh-huh. A spaceship with an Earth-normal gravity field would get pummeled by every rock it passed within a Lagrange point of. There's a lot more 'voodoo physics' going on than 'sounds in space'; but I'm still going to enjoy the movie more than Star Wars Ep. 3, because of the story...
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:02 PM

Zoid,

I agree with ya buddy! Joss knows about us fans and he won't disappoint us. I'm sure of it. I'm gonna go see the movie cause of Simon and Wash. Tehehehehe

...oh yeah, the story. That too.

Yeah, by the by. Why the hell are people complaining bout Serenity's sounds in space but no one complains bout Star Wars?

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step."- Lao Tzo

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:13 PM

Quote:
zoid wrote:
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 16:59

Lighten up on the technogeekery and cut the artistic types a little slack; they know how to do their job. The trailer looks great, and if anyone seriously believes Joss Whedon is going to let us down on the story and dialogue, you can turn in your Browncoat IDs right now...

Well put Zoid, I concur.

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:21 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Me, too

.

The whole, "There's now sound in space in the Firefly 'verse?" thing caught me by surprise. After the trailer came out I was surfing some of the non-Firefly boards (Slashdot, MetaFilter, etc.) just to get a feel for how the trailer was received and this was a comment that cropped up quite a bit.

I thought it was way cool that the TV run of Firefly did not have sound in space. But it's not a deal-breaker for me. Now if Joss turned Zoe into some namby-pamby Desparate Housewife (he says, having never seen that show), then you'd hear me howl. As long as the characters are consistent, I'll be pretty forgiving. * (editted to add: And that's one area where I have complete faith in Joss.)

My main mantra is: $60 - $100 million domestic box office. Say it with me now

. That's where we need to be for the trilogy.

---------------------
Next up: Early "Nutcrusher" Jubal and the Firebuggers

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:12 AM

GAVIDA

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:

Why do people obsess over Firefly's 'no sound in space' motif, yet so totally overlook every sci-fi tv/movie property's abuse of gravity? With the notable exception of 2001: ASO, which got it absolutely right. I guess it's just a matter of 'selective blindness'. And yeah, I know that they close the cargo door and gravity returns to normal. Uh-huh. A spaceship with an Earth-normal gravity field would get pummeled by every rock it passed within a Lagrange point of. There's a lot more 'voodoo physics' going on than 'sounds in space'; but I'm still going to enjoy the movie more than Star Wars Ep. 3, because of the story...

Well, after reading some posts for a bit now, several things came to mind that I wanted to post here. Not sure if I can get may point across good enough, but I will try, so please bear with me (Zoid, you can tell me off and show me where to turn in my "Browncoat IDs" later)

First:

I have an issue with "sound in space". I am no Technogeek who insists on no sound but turns a blind eye towards gravity on ships.
It is not about technical or scientifical correctness, it is about the "feeling".

When I watched Firefly for the first time I was stunned by the "no sound approach".
To me it was stylistic device in Firefly to bring across the loneliness in space, the vastness of "out there" and kind of build up a claustrophobic feeling with people being in a small tincan out there in the blackness (at least it worked for me this way, but then I am one of those people who hold their breath when someone in a movie is diving without air and trying to reach the surface

)

Getting rid of that stylistic device takes away some of the "Firefly-Feeling" for me.

Second:
I will go and watch "Serenity".
Even if I dislike it (or worst case scenario: Even if I would walk out of it after seeing half of it) I would still consider myself a browncoat and see no need to "turn my Browncoat IDs in", since I would still be as madly in love with "Firefly" as I was before.

Third:
I can understand why the one or other person replies aggressive to posts that appear patronizing or are viciously defending the trailer as something godsent, trying to silence every critic mentioned with some rough reply.

Reasoning about how there can be sound in space is one thing, but it is all a question about how it is done. "High Horse" came to mind while reading several posts that where telling those that voiced their concern about the "sisi" (sound-in-space-issue) to "lighten up" and "get over it".

For me there is only one way to say if I like "Serenity": By watching it in the theatre.

But this Forum should allow to voice concerns about where it is going with our beloved Ship and her Crew.

See ya,
Gavida

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:50 AM

Where are the moderators??

Get rid of this guy already!

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:06 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Why ?

He stated his opinion, stated it pretty solidly and that was his opinion.

No one has to agree, no one's forced to agree.

Folks got a right to their opinion, don't they?

Forcing one's opinions on others is what them damn purplebelly alliance goons do, we're browncoats, we can handle it if folks don't agree with us.

That's ok, we don't have to agree with them either, ehe ?

-F

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:25 AM

METAPHORE

The absence of sound in space in the series was a fantastic move by Joss, not only is it more realistic its a great device to convey differnt emotions.

BUT in the series there are no epic space battles, if you take the bulk of run time there really isnt that many deep space scenes at all really, all the action in the ships always happens in atmo. Why are all the action/chase scenes in atmo? So that they could put in engine sounds and smoke trails and the dreaded wooshes used to enhance battles/chases.

Now personally I'd love it if Joss kept the no sound in space continuity with Serenity, and god willin he will, but more than likely they will add sound to the space scenes. As stated before, a 10 minute epic space battle with no sound would totally FREAK OUT regular movie goers. Do you all realize how many people would get up and walk out of a theater after something like that?

Browncoats will come see the movie period. They dont need to bow to our wills, they need to add subtle changes to Firefly's style to bring in the people that think Independence Day was a fantastic movie, the people that eagerly anticipated the release of Armagedon. The Masses, the masses with their small little brains and big wallets, thats who needs to come see Serenity for us to get our two sequels.

Sometimes you have to compromise. While i would like to see Serenity with no sound in space im afraid if it doesnt have it, that we wont get the trilogy like we all hope.

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
....
P.P.S.
And I think the rapid-fire pace of the trailer is planned as well. If you go through it frame by frame, as I have begun to do, there are a lot of split-second images that amateur sleuths like yours truly will be analyzing for, oh say, 156 days...

For instance: Who is the guy the Operative lunges at and strikes? Who is the dark-haired child? What were Simon and Kaylee doing before that explosion? How does Morena get more beautiful every time I see her? Has anybody here but me read William Gibson's Pattern Recognition? If so, do you also believe (as I do) that JW is trying to take a page from that book with the whole 'split-second images embedded in the trailer' thing? So when the snooty cat, and the courageous dog, with the celebrity voices meet for the first time in reel three, that's when you'll catch a flash of Joss's contribution to the trailer.
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

(NB: I love this line. Empire Online can buss my glutes, if they didn't like it.)

Indeed! I've been doing likewise (going through frame by frame) and... was that really River facekicking Simon??? Hmmm.. I guess he had it coming.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:44 AM

I was just joshing.... of course people are entitled to their opinions. Its just that I prefer to read effusively optimistic threads regarding Serenity.

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:47 AM

Quote:
SergeantX wrote:
Thursday, April 28, 2005 03:27

Indeed! I've been doing likewise (going through frame by frame)

What software do you use to go frame by frame with a damn *.mov* file?

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:49 AM

Just patience and a pause button myself. Anybody know of any freeware .mov editors?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:16 AM

Gavida:

What I said was (in context):

Quote:
Lighten up on the technogeekery and cut the artistic types a little slack; they know how to do their job. The trailer looks great, and if anyone seriously believes Joss Whedon is going to let us down on the story and dialogue, you can turn in your Browncoat IDs right now...

In the first sentence, the attempt was to flip the attention-to-detail switch to the OFF position, and realize that this is not a science show, it's a science-fiction show. I am a science-fiction connoisseur and this is one man's opinion (i.e., mine): A sci-fi story can have the most precise science in the world; but if it doesn't have a good story and characters, it sucks. By the same token, it can have a great story and characters; but if the science is too improbable (no such thing as impossible, remember), it sucks. And let's not forget that I consider Dune (the books, not the movies) the greatest science fiction property ever written, and its science really pushes the envelope of believability.

(NB: (SPICOLI VOICE) You take a drug that connects you to the Universe itself, man, and then like, you can fold space, right? And then you can go to this planet, right? And there's these humongous earthworms with like really sharp teeth. And these worms actually make the drugs you take to fold space, right? Like when they poop or something. And you know how when it rains really hard you always see some earthworms drowned to death in a puddle on the sidewalk? Same deal with these giantific earthworms, dude. The humans drown the worms and then they drink its puke which gets everyone high and then they start having this orgy... No, man! I'm serious! Everyone in the village just gets naked in a big pile! But the really cool part is that the humans use the humongoloid earthworms' teeth as knives, dude. The teeth get like this electrical field that connects them to the human that owns them. And when the human dies, the tooth-knife gets brittle and crumbles! How awesome is that?! (/SPICOLI VOICE))

At some point, every work of fiction requires you to suspend your disbelief. In science-fiction, you frequently have to suspend your scientific disbelief, as well as your 'this would never happen in real life' disbelief. For me the beauty of Joss Whedon's Firefly/Serenity is that you so seldom have to suspend your 'reality' disbelief that suspension of scientific disbelief is of virtually no consequence. 'Sound in space', is therefore, IMO, a nice piece of science (again, while totally disregarding gravity); but not a necessity for me to appreciate the masterful storytelling.

As far as the 'turn in your Browncoat ID' comment is concerned, please note that I prefaced it by saying "...if anyone seriously believes Joss Whedon is going to let us down on the story and dialogue...". I did not say, 'if you have a problem with sound in space, turn in your Browncoat ID.' Those are two clearly separated circumstances and statements.

In closing, Gavida, I'm not asking (or demanding) that anyone turn in their Browncoat membership for disliking or even vehemently disagreeing with 'sounds in space'. What I said -- and what I'll stick to here -- is that if you don't trust our storyteller to know how to tell a good story, then you are not in fact a Browncoat. If you think that JW is a poseur who really doesn't know a good story from a bad one, who has somehow stolen the Fireflyverse from someone else and made us all believe that it's entirely his creation, and that he might possibly let us all down by telling a bad story (or let the studio force him into telling us a bad story), then the Browncoat ID is invalid. (NB: Please note my use of the conjunction, "If", which I have emphasized in an attempt to be totally understood on this matter. It was obviously too subtle a distinction the last time I used it, and people became sensitized to the 'turn in ID' suggestion, without due regard to the prepositional phrase which predicated it.)

I thought your reasoning was lucid, your objections were well-explained, even if they missed my point and disregarded the conditions under which I feel someone should turn in their Browncoat ID. And please note that my response does not include an exclusionary remark like, "And you can't disagree with me", let alone, "End of discussion, and I don't give a damn who you are." I'm leaving the whole thing open to debate, and I do care deeply about who you are...

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Wasn't that fun? How often do I have to quote myself and then painstakingly parse my own sentences? Okay, so more often than I'd like, but still... Wasn't that fun?
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:06 AM

GAVIDA

*pops open a tincan with "almost real flavoured" Blue Sun Tobacco suggorate*

*stuffs Tobacco suggorate into Calumet replica made from RCM (TM) (Real Canton Mud)*

*ignites peace pipe, inhales a puff of smoke, turns blue, coughs and offers pipe to Zoid*

Guess I misunderstood the part with the ID tags, I stand corrected.

I still stand by my point of view that "sound in space" is almost like painting a mustache onto the upper lip of the Mona Lisa

See ya,
Gavida

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:59 AM

Gavida:

*zoid accepts proffered peace pipe, inhales deeply of the oddly sweet-smelling surrogate(?) tobacco, then fans the stray wisps of smoke towards his nose and face, running his hand up and across his nose, brow and closely shorn scalp.*

You know, considering the widely-held suspicion that the Mona Lisa is in fact a self-portrait of da Vinci in drag, perhaps the moustache is actually more appropriate than the propagation of sound waves through an airless vacuum.

*Exhales a now nearly smokeless lungfull of air, complete with whooshing sound.*

Highly,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:15 AM

SOUPCATCHER

*SoupCatcher goes walking by with nothing to add to this discussion*

[inhales ]
Mmmmm. Second hand buzz...
[starts trying to do dialogue with himself]

Quote:
Stolen shamelessly from Mel Brooks
Soldier 1: Do you care if it falls?
Soldier 2: What?
Soldier 1: The Roman Empire.
Soldier 2: F*** it.
Soldier 1: Hee hee hee.

* editted to add: SoupCatcher thanks Zoid for the peace pipe, takes a toke, and then promptly goes to sleep... Wakes up, and does some proper attribution on his post

, then goes wandering around looking for snacks.

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:29 AM

*zoid passes SoupCatcher peace pipe while he types...*

Quote:
Centurion: What's this then? "Romanes eunt domus?" ... "People called Romanes they go the house?"
Brian: It...it says: "Romans go home."
Centurion: No, it doesn't.
Brian: Aih.
Centurion: What's Latin for Romans? Come on!
Brian: Aih! Aah! Romanus!
Centurion: Goes like...?
Brian: -Anus?
Centurion: Vocative plural of -anus is...?
Brian: Ani?
Centurion: (takes paintbrush from Brian and paints over) "RO-MA-NI". "EUNT"? What is "EUNT"?
Brian: "Go"! De...
Centurion: Conjugate the verb "to go"!
Brian: Aah...ire, eo, is, it, imus, itis, eunt.
Centurion: So eunt is...?
Brian: Aah, ehm...third person plural present indicative. Ehm..."they go".
Centurion: But "Romans go home" is an order, so you must use the...? (lifts Brian by his hairs)
Brian: Aih! Imperative!
Centurion: Which is...?
Brian: Ehm, oh...oh, ehm...i, i!
Centurion: How many Romans? (pulls harder)
Brian: Aah! it's...plural, plural! Ite! Ite!
Centurion: (strikes over "EUNT" and paints "ITE" on the wall)
(satisfied) "I-TE".
Brian: Aah, ah.
Centurion: Domus? Nominative?
Brian: Ah, ah?
Centurion: "Go home", this is motion towards, isn't it, boy?
Brian: Ehm...ehm...dative sir?
Sword: (Slinskt, draws his sword and holds it to Brian's throat)
Brian: Ahh! No, ablative, ablative, sir. No, the, accusative, accusative! Aah! Domum, sir! Ad domum!
Aah, ooh!
Centurion: Except that domus takes the...?
Brian: Aah! The locative, sir! Aah!
Centurion: Which is...?
Brian: Domum! Aah, ah, aah...
Centurion: (satisfied) "DOMUM" (strikes out "DOMUS" and writes "DOMUM") "-MUM".
Understand?
Brian: Yes, sir!
Centurion: Now, write that a hundred times!
Brian: Yes, sir! Thank you, sir! Hail Caesar, sir!
Centurion: Hail Caesar! And if it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.
Brian: Oh, thank you, sir! Thank you, sir! Hail Caesar and everything, sir! Aah.

(Next sunrise, the city wall is completely covered with graffiti)
Brian: Mmh! Aah... Finished! Aah.
Roman Soldier: Right. Now, don't do it again!
Man with bag (zoid): Hey! ...Bloody Romans...

(NB: Totally stolen from http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_scripts/briafilm.asp, without permission of any kind.)

Associatively,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Romani ite domum." -Roman Centurion, Monty Python's The Life of Brian

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:56 PM

GAVIDA

*While Gavida wonders what Blue Sun uses for their Tobacco he realizes that he can actually feel his hair grow*

Well, even if the Mona Lisa is Leonardo, the painting is known as a masterpiece without a mustache.

Messing with a masterpiece of art is a reason to go to the special hell!

Our beloved "Firefly" is a masterpiece.

And we all know what can happen to something beautiful when you change it too much, don't we?

*mutters* Han shot first!

Blue Sun artifically flavoured Soy Chocolate Cookies, anyone?

"Keeps flying",
Gavida

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:28 PM

NERVOUSPETE

Cripes! This has turned into a bit of a to-do, eh?

Certainly the most popular thread I ever posted, if not for precisely the same reason as I was hoping it to be for.

I just wanted to go and say, "Look! Shiny! Heap big magazine loves Firefly and Serenity!"

Next thing they're the demon/standard-bearer in the for/against supposed sound in space brigade.

Also, I don't think that Empire at any point were being snippy about any part of the trailer or anything. They love Firefly, and they're just posting their first reactions. Nor are they nit-picking, really. It's more their affectionate way of showing they care, those quibbles. They quibble about everything and anything. It's what they do.

So to stear the thread back in the direction I was wanting it to go (while at the same time bowing down to the popular consensus of it being fun to argue the Firefly-true/deviancy spectrum) - hot dang! Ain't it swell having positive lil'l articles in big magazines about our film! Our film!

Now I'll see what rival UK film magazine Total Film has to say about it. They better be rooting for it!

Cheers,

Pete

"If you can keep your head whilst others... eurgh! Ack! I've spilt my ink! Ugh! Ink on my trousers! Agh! Ink on my shirt! My only hope! The window! Aieeeeee!" (Falls to death)
- Jonathan Nash

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:22 PM