Death to Scalpers by Knibblet

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Death to Scalpers

POSTED BY: KNIBBLET
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 3, 2005 12:59
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VIEWED: 2443
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Monday, May 2, 2005 5:18 AM

Well perhaps not death but I certainly believe that scalping should be illegal in all 50 United States and every other civilized place in the 'verse.

Q. How empty is the soul of a scalper?
A. very.

"I'm gonna rip you a new puppet hole, bitch!"

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Monday, May 2, 2005 6:32 AM

HELL'S KITTEN

Supply and demand, Knibbs. The way of the 'verse.

无党派人士

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Monday, May 2, 2005 7:22 AM

SOUPCATCHER

I'm right there with you, Knibblet. Reminds me of Ariel:

Mal: You turn on any of my crew, you turn on me!

I have nothing but disgust for anyone who bought extra tickets with the express intent of selling them off to the highest bidder. I guess they don't mind selling their soul at a cheap price. It saddens me that we have those in our community who turn into predators at the drop of a hat.

My first thought on hearing that the screenings sold out so quickly was, "Cool! We're continuing to make a name for ourselves as a dedicated fan base." When I saw the first ebay auction later that day this thought changed to, "Crap. Now we're the fanbase that puts gouging and making a buck ahead of community."

It's only a few bad apples. But bad news travels faster than good news. Hopefully we can get the canned goods donation thing going and counteract some of the negative publicity engendered by those who threatened theater owners and are scalping tickets.

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Monday, May 2, 2005 8:10 AM

BLINKER

Uncivilized... empty souls... turning into predators...

Scalping their victims...

Hmm.

_________
Sliders: Gate Haven - http://slidersweb.net/blinker

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Monday, May 2, 2005 10:32 AM

KNIBBLET

My contempt for scalpers is not new. I've always despised the breed.

"I'm gonna rip you a new puppet hole, bitch!"

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Monday, May 2, 2005 10:48 AM

BEATLE

I may not think much of scalpers who buy up tickets, but I really think people who spend $300 to see a movie are idiots.

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Monday, May 2, 2005 11:29 AM

HELL'S KITTEN

I think I oughtta start this by saying: I loves my fellow BrownCoats.

Really, I do.

However, equating the degredation of ones soul to the sale of a ticket (which is purchased by someone obviously willing to pay any price) is... kinda extreme. The amount of negative emotion you ascribe to the act of scalping a ticket - a ticket, mind you, not something important like, say, a life-sustaining drug - is really beyond my understanding.

And I'm not sure what "community" has to do with it. Seems there might be a bit of exaggeration going on, with the new spark of glee ignited by the release of the trailer and all. (Either that, or I really am more like Jayne that I thought. Hee...)

Her Knibbs, maybe you can 'splain it to me if we ever get another MN meet-up going.

无党派人士

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Monday, May 2, 2005 12:29 PM

ZEEK

I have no problem with either group.

Scalpers are just taking advantage of supply and demand. It's a concept our entire economy is based on.

The people buying the tickets are just showing their great desire to see the movie. Just because they have the money to spend is no reason to hate them. I might consider spending a whole bunch of money on a ticket myself if I didn't have one.

Most of these "scalpers" are probably just Firefly fans themselves. If I had the chance to get more tickets I would have taken it. Then if my friends couldn't go, I would promptly put those tickets up on ebay. Some of the people are probably in that situation themselve, or they're fans who thought they could make it to one of the screening cities and then found out otherwise.

I find it hard to believe that these tickets sold out in a matter of hours and people can believe scalpers got to the tickets. They would have to be some of the most impressive scalpers to be monitoring the entire internet for the chance at these tickets.

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Monday, May 2, 2005 12:36 PM

CHRISISALL

Now, now. We don't want anyone dead. Scalpers is people, too.
I jus' wanna se 'em off-world, real sudden-like.

Man o' piece Chrisisall

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Monday, May 2, 2005 1:02 PM

HELL'S KITTEN

One last comment, I swear....

It's just... and this really bothers me... whenever I see the word "scalpers," I read/think "Scapers." And then I think, "Jeez... Farscape was a good show... why's everyone want those fans dead?"

无党派人士

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Monday, May 2, 2005 1:38 PM

CHRISISALL

'Scalpers' will no longer be used.
Use instead 'The original-priced-challenged emergency ticket resource provider'.

Economically Correct Chrisisall

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Tuesday, May 3, 2005 2:49 AM

KNIBBLET

As I've always thought of scalpers as bottom-feeders, I'm going with the alternative moniker of "scum suckers".

And trust me, my disgust with scalpers isn't something that began with Serenity tickets. I've always despised scalpers.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
'Scalpers' will no longer be used.
Use instead 'The original-priced-challenged emergency ticket resource provider'.

Economically Correct Chrisisall

"I'm gonna rip you a new puppet hole, bitch!"

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Tuesday, May 3, 2005 3:58 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I can understand the disdain for scalpers. I can also understand the problem w/ someone who would buy a ticket for say $10 - 15 bucks than let the bidding run up over $200. Some say that is the way of capitalism. I call it greed, plain and simple. I have no problem with someone wanting to make a profit on something for their time and effort, but $200+??? Does that seem right to you?

Perhaps what my real problem is with this whole deal is the seeming lack of intergrity. I am a small town country boy and I guess my mom brought me up to do right by people. If you are in business you provide a good service or product for a fair price. You don't gouge the customer with exuberant prices.

I can understand that there are Browncoats out there that can afford the price of these tickets on Ebay and I am happy that they can go to the screening. I admire their enthusiasm and their ability to pay such a cost for a ticket. It just doesn't sit right w/ me that someone would take advantage of fans enthusiasm this way. Why not sell the tickets w/ the "Buy it Now" option for say $50? That would insure the seller a 300% + profit. Isn't that enough? How much is too much? At what point does it descend from "good capitalism" to greed?

The seller says the profits will go to charity. I would like to believe that, but I have been around a little long to take everything I read at face value. I do hope it is true, and some sizable donations are made in the names of browncoats to charity. But what if the seller's favorite charity is themselves?

I don't mean to get up on a soapbox. I have been around here long enough that most of you know I don't like getting all preachy, but things like this just aggrivate me.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

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Tuesday, May 3, 2005 4:54 AM

SHINY

If you belive in supply and demand, then shouldn't you be in favor of auctions to all popular concerts, musicals, plays, movies, playoff games, etc? Why let the scalpers that add no value get the benefit instead of the people who actually produce the shows and perform in them? Let's make every stadium and theatre available only for rich people, except for the dumb shows no one wants to see -- those we can let those lower classes into.

Nathan Fillion should only let the people who can pay the most get autographs, right?

While we're at it, no one should be able to talk or write to any of their senators or congressmen without first going through a paid lobbyist. After all, they don't have time for everyone, so it's more economically efficient to let the market decide who they listen to...

Just saying it's supply and demand is a cop-out as much as saying 'well it's just human nature' or 'yeah, the strong will always oppress the weak that's just the way it is' -- such thoughtless refrains brush off questions of fairness or rights and replace it with power/money is everything.

[end rant]

Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

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Tuesday, May 3, 2005 5:20 AM

ZEEK

Now we want fairness? Let's all get super powers and never ending gobstoppers while we're at it. I'm trying to live on a little place called Earth. Life ain't fair. It's never going to be fair. That should just be out of the picture right from the get go. If things were going to be fair then everyone would get a ticket for a certain percentage of their income and everyone would get the exact seats they want and all would see the movie at the exact same time. It's not going to happen.

So, you see both sides of this argument can be taken to the extreme.

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Tuesday, May 3, 2005 5:44 AM

NICOLACLARKE

Again: calm down, folks. You know nothing about the circumstances of those who are selling their tickets on eBay - or of those who are bidding on them. Assuming greed is easy, but lazy. As some have pointed out, it could just be entrepreneurial spirit (yay capitalism!) - but it could easily be Browncoats who bought tickets and have since discovered that they can't make it. Like someone said above, any "scalpers" would have to have been supernaturally quick off the mark - and be randomly browsing Firefly fansites at exactly the right time to find out about it. Seems unlikely, doesn't it?

I had a similar situation myself a month or so back. My friends and I were bitterly disappointed when transport issues a week beforehand prevented us from going to a particular gig - but thanks to eBay, the tickets didn't go to waste. EBay is the safest way to get rid of unwanted tickets, with protection for buyer and seller alike. It's also the most public: putting tickets up for auction rather than 'buy it now' means that many more Browncoats will see the available tickets and have a chance to get them before the time is up.

Finally, the sellers have no control over the price of those tickets once people start bidding, so castigating them for charging $300 is utterly beside the point. Those who bid make a free choice to do so based upon their own desire/willingness/ability to pay, and they can stop whenever they like.

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Tuesday, May 3, 2005 5:51 AM

KNIBBLET

I'm really not focusing on tickets to Serenity here. I'm just campaigning for a 'death for all scalpers everywhere' law.

Too many times have I wanted to see a play or attend a concert only to have it sold out and then see these scum sucking low lifes on the corner selling the massive amounts of tickets they bought for 5 times cover to people who couldn't buy tickets legitimately because of the bottom feeding scum suckers.

Concert promoters and artists surely did not intend for a small group of scum sucker to grab up 100os of tickets to an event and resell them at hugely inflated prices to geniune fans.

Cover the eyes of children and the faint-hearted......

Scalpers suck. Don't allow them to breed. Make it illegal across the land and enforce the law.
If I had my way, it would be illegal to scalp and illegal to buy scalped tickets.

Scalpers... fuck 'em all and toss away the key.

"I'm gonna rip you a new puppet hole, bitch!"

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Tuesday, May 3, 2005 6:58 AM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Now we want fairness? Let's all get super powers and never ending gobstoppers while we're at it. I'm trying to live on a little place called Earth. Life ain't fair. It's never going to be fair. That should just be out of the picture right from the get go. If things were going to be fair then everyone would get a ticket for a certain percentage of their income and everyone would get the exact seats they want and all would see the movie at the exact same time. It's not going to happen.

So, you see both sides of this argument can be taken to the extreme.

So forget the extremes -- why should scalpers get the profit instead of the performers and producers? If you agree with that premise, shouldn't the concert and stadium folks just auction off all the tickets? How is that any more extreme than scalping?

Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

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Tuesday, May 3, 2005 7:15 AM

HELL'S KITTEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Knibblet:
Scalpers... fuck 'em all and toss away the key.

I'm a little scared to ask how the key fits into that statement....

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
So forget the extremes -- why should scalpers get the profit instead of the performers and producers? If you agree with that premise, shouldn't the concert and stadium folks just auction off all the tickets? How is that any more extreme than scalping?

Um, the performers and producers do get the profit. Maybe you're not considering the business side to all this. The producers / promoters / whatever you wanna call them set a price for tickets based on what they think the average person would pay. Scalpers, by default, are selling to the extreme fringes of any fanbase, who are willing to pay extreme prices. (Though, not in all cases.) Believe me, if the producers thought that the average person would pay $300 per ticket (any ticket to any show), they would set that price because business is driven by money. Then the scalpers would still find the extreme fanbase and make a profit above that. That's why it's ridiculous to try to make a point by arguing that every event should just auction off their tickets instead of having a set price. It just wouldn't work, unless you're willing to go to the extreme and sell just 10 tickets per event, 3 events per year, which would inevitably drive prices up. On the other hand, according to real life, you get an event that can seat 40,000 people, ask what those 40,000 are willing to pay, your average will be a reasonable price.

Now I'm rambling on about something that is taking up way too much time. It is the way it is. It's fine to accept it, and it's fine not to; that's why I choose not to go through Ticket Master. I promise, though, that I will never scalp anything if it has even the remotest of chances of being found out by Knibblet.

无党派人士

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Tuesday, May 3, 2005 7:19 AM

NICOLACLARKE

Fairer to everyone would be if theatres and other venues offered to buy back tickets in the event that a purchaser can't make it - and then made those returned tickets available to the general public again at the original price. Some places do offer this service (the RST in Stratford, UK, for example), but most concert tickets you buy clearly state 'non-refundable'. What else are you to do with tickets that become unwanted due to changed circumstances? Surely it's better that people who want to go and are able to get those tickets - via eBay if nothing else is possible - rather than there being empty seats?

(Again, this has happened to me - I didn't hear about a recent reunion tour by one of my favourite bands until some time after the gigs had sold out, but managed to get a ticket through ebay from a fellow fan who couldn't make it one night. And I'm eternally grateful to them for making it available!).

I agree that scalping as an activity is pretty low. But how do you distinguish - in an efficient, legally-enforceable way - between genuine people whose plans changed and those who are just seeking to profit? Should everyone buying tickets to the previews have to present their fan credentials along with their credit card details? Clearly impossible.

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Tuesday, May 3, 2005 8:28 AM

SHINY

Nah, it's simple economic theory. All the ticket sellers would have to do is have an auction for the first, say, 25% of the tickets. Then a week or two later, sell the rest at "normal face value" (the average price you are talking about). Finally, hold on to say 5% of the tickets until the last day or two and sell them at an extreme markup. That way the ticket sellers can take most of the profit, and the scalpers would have trouble selling for much more than the ticket sellers (because the people they are selling to are either desperate to go, in which case they would have bid in the auction, or they are last-minute shoppers for an extra ticket for a friend who they thought couldn't come, in which case they can pay extra for the spare 5%)

Simple, profit-maximizing for the owners/performers, and most likely illegal in most states I would guess.

Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

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Tuesday, May 3, 2005 9:34 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
Nah, it's simple economic theory. All the ticket sellers would have to do is have an auction for the first, say, 25% of the tickets. Then a week or two later, sell the rest at "normal face value" (the average price you are talking about). Finally, hold on to say 5% of the tickets until the last day or two and sell them at an extreme markup. That way the ticket sellers can take most of the profit, and the scalpers would have trouble selling for much more than the ticket sellers (because the people they are selling to are either desperate to go, in which case they would have bid in the auction, or they are last-minute shoppers for an extra ticket for a friend who they thought couldn't come, in which case they can pay extra for the spare 5%)

Simple, profit-maximizing for the owners/performers, and most likely illegal in most states I would guess.

Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

In answer to your earlier question, the profits should go to the artists and theaters. I'm not saying the money is getting into the right people's hands.

The reason that ticket selling plan wouldn't work is because not every showing is a ultra-popular event. Use that plan with the release of XXX: State of the Union and it just plain won't work.

So really it would have to be a very demand based system. Someone would have to gauge the enthusiasm of the fans at every release. They'd have to decided when to cut the price and when not to. It would have a lot of overhead.

They would also be alienating theater goers all the time. People are already upset about the price of tickets. If it was obvious that theaters were gouging every last penny out of people, they would find another way to see the movies. It would work better with sporting events and limited engagements.

Anyway the real point is that when scalpers do it, the other patrons don't get upset. However, if the theater itself were selling the tickets at the extreme prices then more people would blame them and it would hurt their "regular" sales.

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Tuesday, May 3, 2005 12:59 PM

STEVE580

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Why not sell the tickets w/ the "Buy it Now" option for say $50? That would insure the seller a 300% + profit. Isn't that enough? How much is too much? At what point does it descend from "good capitalism" to greed?

Capitalism is based upon greed -- or rather, the idea that people, in general, put self-interest above community-interest. That's what distinguishes it from communism. I see no problems with that; I mean, why make $50 if you can just as easily make $300? Sure, it's easy to *say* that; but if it was you in that situation, is that really what you'd do? I consider myself to be, generally, a good person; but I'd take the $300 any day. I mean, hell, I've got bills to pay. Plus, I really want some new speakers for my car....
-Steve

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