SERENITY on eBay.... by Ruxton

Ok, I have to come in with the minority opinon here.

I'm always curious about what kinds of things get sold on eBay, and how much they go for. So as soon as the tickets went on sale, I started watching eBay to see if tickets would show up.

As we know, all of the theatres sold out within 24 hours. So we know that everyone who bought tickets bought them on the first day. And if anyone were buying ticket specifically to resell them, they would immediately turn around and post them on eBay, so that they're there when the hype is strong and the disappointed would-be ticket buyers log on to check out their alternative options.

But there's the thing. For the first several days, there *were* no tickets on eBay. I was watching. I was surprised by the fact, and thought it was really cool that the people who bought the tickets really bought them to see the movie.

Also, it looks like the people selling the tickets are only selling one or two each. If they were in it purely for the profit, they would have bought several. Hell, I bought 20, just incase a bunch of my friends wanted to go (and am now kicking myself for not getting more, since I have more friends who want the tickets than I have tickets).

And finally, the tickets sold out so fast that even people who *were* highly connected in the Firefly fandom didn't hear about it until it was too late. So anyone who's a professional scalper and not hooked in to the Firefly scene really wouldn't be likely to have heard about it in time to get tickets.

So regardless of what your opinion is of professional scalpers, it appears to me that the majority of the people selling their tickets on eBay probably fall into one of two categories:

1) People who bought tickets with the intent of using them, but had a change of plans and are tyring to reimburse their expense.

2) People who saw how much they were going for on eBay, compared that to how much they have to pay in taxes this year, and decided that they'd rather do the financially responsible thing and see the movie later.

In either of these cases, I can't blame them at all. In fact, I have to give mad props to anyone who falls into category 2. As great as it might be to see your favorite movie four months early, there's definitely something to be said for putting your financial well being ahead of your fandom in your priority list.

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 1:54 AM

ICCLEDAMES

Ah the joys of eBay - since I started looking on there, I've seen one person selling a kidney, one person selling their soul and another one selling themself. They were only on a couple of days before the eBay people cancelled them. Perhaps scarily, all but the person selling themself had bids on, and high ones at that! The one selling the soul was about £10 if I remember correctly but the kidney was about £70. I've also seen people selling paperclips. Not a pack of paperclips but just one on its own...but people were bidding!

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 3:48 AM

ZOL

The problem I have is this, if they are genuine (yes they could well be) then if people can`t make it then why not sell them for a little more than they paid for them and not $450 USD!!

That *IS* profitteering - it doesn`t matter if you have 1 ticket or 20 tickets - you are still stiching somebody up.

There seams to be some really profit orientated fans out there - thing is not to be greedy, and preventing others from taking part.

If it were me who had bought a ticket and couldn`t go, I would possibly put it up on eBay *but* it would be done for CHARITY & not for my own pocket - How many on eBay at the moment are doing that?

That`s my point in a nutshell, it seams like it`s not about the fans, it`s about the money others are making off the fans.

Darin (Zol.)

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 4:12 AM

> if they are genuine (yes they could well be)
> then if people can`t make it then why not sell
> them for a little more than they paid for them
> and not $450 USD!!
>
> That *IS* profitteering

No, that is a free market. If you look at the startig bid for most of the auctions, you'll see that the sellers posted them for between $5-20. It's the buyers who bid the prices up to the $200+ range. It's not that the sellers were greedy, but that the buyers were willing to pay a lot for what they were selling. It's supply and demand, pure and simple.

And yes, there are a few people who have starting bids of $75+. But those auctions don't appear to be getting bids.

> If it were me who had bought a ticket and
> couldn`t go, I would possibly put it up on
> eBay *but* it would be done for CHARITY &
> not for my own pocket - How many on eBay at
> the moment are doing that?

That's a personal decision. And right now, in my current situation, I'd probably do the same thing. But a few years ago, when money was tighter, I would have been stupid to throw away $200+ that I could have put toward rent and food.

I don't think it's fair to condemn someone for not sharing your level of devotion to charity. In fact, I think that if donating to charity is a requirement it has less meaning than if it is something that someone does by choice. Not because they would be a bad person if they didn't, or because they would be rewarded if they did, but just because they believe it's the right thing to do.

> That`s my point in a nutshell, it seams like
> it`s not about the fans, it`s about the money
> others are making off the fans.

How many tickets have been sold on eBay? Maybe two or three dozen, tops? Out of about 2000 available tickets? I don't think a 1-2% edge case constitutes it being all about the money.

Also, I'm curious if your objections are regardless of the nature of the item being sold, or if it only applies to things that you are personally passionate about. Did you object as much to Gmail invites being sold for $50-100 on eBay? Or Tickle Me Elmos, PS2 systems, or iPod Minis going for insane amounts?

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 4:48 AM

TALLGRRL

What stuns me are things like one guy selling a ticket to a screening in another city he's supposedly going to fly to, and suggesting that the buyer "meet [him] at the theatre".
WTF???!!!
Anyone...ANYONE...who gets ripped off from buying overpriced tickets to A MOVIE deserves it.
yeesh!

"Take me, sir. Take me hard." -- Zoe

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 5:42 AM

rayhill (member since April 30, 2005):

You could've talked all day and not said you personally purchased at least 18 tickets more than you needed, meaning that 9 couples in your city were deprived of the opportunity to see the movie because of your gluttony. You are part of the problem, not part of the solution. I predict someone going to the show in rayhill's town will see rayhill standing around outside the theatre, hawking his 'spare' tickets for a quick windfall.

Hey, it's the American way, ain't it? Take advantage of the system and then rape your fellow humans for the sake of profit. 'Free Enterprise'. I reckon we come by the 'Ugly American' tag honestly, at least...

For those who are lucky enough to live in the screening cities, but who were unlucky enough to get in line behind the rayhill-types: I suggest you go to the theatre anyway. There will be tons of tickets available on the dimly-lit street corners just adjacent the theatre.

With any sort of luck, the loyal Browncoats will just stand around the 'capitalists' as they grow increasingly desperate to unload their booty. My fantasy:

1 hour before showtime...
"I got 18 tickets, 18 tickets!".
"How much?", the Browncoat asks, steely eyed.
"Two-fifty each," saith the parasite.
"Mmm-hmm," quoth the Browncoat.

30 minutes before showtime...
"Hey, folks!? I said I got 18 tickets, 18 tickets here!".
The same Browncoat, still steely eyed, asks, "How much?" with the precise same vocal inflection.
"Ummm... Just to get you off my corner, Two hundred each," saith the parasite.
"Mmm-hmm," quoth the Browncoat.

15 minutes before showtime, a large crowd has gathered around the 'enterprising' leech...
"C'mon folks!" he whines, "I got 18 tickets to Serenity! 18 tickets! C'mon, who wants 'em?".
"How much?", intones that same Browncoat, steely eyes now smouldering with something like menace and mirth combined.
"One hundred a pair," saith the parasite, plaintively.
"Mmm-hmm," quoth the Browncoat.

5 minutes before showtime...
"What are you people, a bunch of morons?! I got 18 tickets to see Serenity, 18 tickets right here!".
"How much?", the Browncoat asks, steely eyes smouldering, the hint of a toothy grin on his face.
"Forty-five a pair," saith the parasite, clearly rattled. "My absolute bottom price."
"Mmm-hmm," quoth the Browncoat. Then, "I'll give you one hundred and eighty for the lot. Ten dollars apiece; what you paid for them."
"Done," says the relieved 'supplier'.

As he counts his money (oddly, it's in six bills: a hundred, three twenties and two tens), the not-so-successful profiteer sez, "Who the f*ck are you anyway?"

As he finishes handing the last of the tickets to a young couple, along with $12 for sodas and popcorn, the Browncoat muses, "They'll miss the trailers... Shame." Then he turns his attention back to the opportunist, throws his arm around his shoulder and grins his big, unsettling grin and walks him off into the shadows...

"Friends call me zoid. But you can call me Mr. Wednesday."

(NB: With thanks to Neil Gaiman's "American Gods".)

Sacrificially,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 6:25 AM

> You could've talked all day and not said you personally purchased at least 18 tickets more
> than you needed, meaning that 9 couples in your city were deprived of the opportunity to see
> the movie because of your gluttony. You are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

What part of "I have more firend who want tickets than I have tickets" did you not get? The tickets I bought are all going to friends of mine who are fellow Browncoats but are not active on the boards and therefore would not have heard about the event until it was too late. The same friends who stood in line to get tickets Phantom Menace tickets for me (before we knew it was gonna suck). The only exception are the two that are going to other members of the SF Browncoats group that I've never met, but have been helping out a ton on the ComicCon prep work.

> I predict someone going to the show in rayhill's town will see rayhill standing around outside
> the theatre, hawking his 'spare' tickets for a quick windfall.

Actually, no. You'll see me and the other SF Browncoats standing around passing out "intro to Firefly/Serenity" fliers to recruit new converts, and postcards advertising the local SF Browncoats group and the charity raffle that we're organizing for ComicCon. But you were right about the standing around part. :)

> Hey, it's the American way, ain't it? Take advantage of the system and then rape your
> fellow humans for the sake of profit. 'Free Enterprise'. I reckon we come by the 'Ugly
> American' tag honestly, at least...

*yawn* When you're ready to get back to intelligent intercourse instead of colorful rhetoric, let me know. I thought we were actually having a conversation there for a minute.

> For those who are lucky enough to live in the screening cities, but who were unlucky enough
> to get in line behind the rayhill-types: I suggest you go to the theatre anyway. There will
> be tons of tickets available on the dimly-lit street corners just adjacent the theatre.

I tend to doubt that. Especially considering how few have been sold on eBay. But definitely *do* come out and hang out with us in line. Any excuse to hang out with fellow Browncoats is a good one, in my book. :)

> My fantasy:

I may disagree with your assessment on the morality of selling high-demand items in an auction, but I have to give you props for highly entertaining rants.

If you're done with the mud slinging, though, I actually am curious whether or not your stance on the subject holds true for items that you are personally less passionate about. Do you think that it is still immoral to sell a low-availability item (be it a toy, a new electronics device, Raiders tickets, whatever) at auction? Or is your objection amplified by the fact that you are passionate about this particular fandom?

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 6:33 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:

rayhill (member since April 30, 2005):

You could've talked all day and not said you personally purchased at least 18 tickets more than you needed, meaning that 9 couples in your city were deprived of the opportunity to see the movie because of your gluttony. You are part of the problem, not part of the solution. I predict someone going to the show in rayhill's town will see rayhill standing around outside the theatre, hawking his 'spare' tickets for a quick windfall.

Hey, it's the American way, ain't it? Take advantage of the system and then rape your fellow humans for the sake of profit. 'Free Enterprise'. I reckon we come by the 'Ugly American' tag honestly, at least...

For those who are lucky enough to live in the screening cities, but who were unlucky enough to get in line behind the rayhill-types: I suggest you go to the theatre anyway. There will be tons of tickets available on the dimly-lit street corners just adjacent the theatre.

With any sort of luck, the loyal Browncoats will just stand around the 'capitalists' as they grow increasingly desperate to unload their booty. My fantasy:

1 hour before showtime...
"I got 18 tickets, 18 tickets!".
"How much?", the Browncoat asks, steely eyed.
"Two-fifty each," saith the parasite.
"Mmm-hmm," quoth the Browncoat.

30 minutes before showtime...
"Hey, folks!? I said I got 18 tickets, 18 tickets here!".
The same Browncoat, still steely eyed, asks, "How much?" with the precise same vocal inflection.
"Ummm... Just to get you off my corner, Two hundred each," saith the parasite.
"Mmm-hmm," quoth the Browncoat.

15 minutes before showtime, a large crowd has gathered around the 'enterprising' leech...
"C'mon folks!" he whines, "I got 18 tickets to Serenity! 18 tickets! C'mon, who wants 'em?".
"How much?", intones that same Browncoat, steely eyes now smouldering with something like menace and mirth combined.
"One hundred a pair," saith the parasite, plaintively.
"Mmm-hmm," quoth the Browncoat.

5 minutes before showtime...
"What are you people, a bunch of morons?! I got 18 tickets to see Serenity, 18 tickets right here!".
"How much?", the Browncoat asks, steely eyes smouldering, the hint of a toothy grin on his face.
"Forty-five a pair," saith the parasite, clearly rattled. "My absolute bottom price."
"Mmm-hmm," quoth the Browncoat. Then, "I'll give you one hundred and eighty for the lot. Ten dollars apiece; what you paid for them."
"Done," says the relieved 'supplier'.

As he counts his money (oddly, it's in six bills: a hundred, three twenties and two tens), the not-so-successful profiteer sez, "Who the f*ck are you anyway?"

As he finishes handing the last of the tickets to a young couple, along with $12 for sodas and popcorn, the Browncoat muses, "They'll miss the trailers... Shame." Then he turns his attention back to the opportunist, throws his arm around his shoulder and grins his big, unsettling grin and walks him off into the shadows...

"Friends call me zoid. But you can call me Mr. Wednesday."

(NB: With thanks to Neil Gaiman's "American Gods".)

Sacrificially,

zoid

(Claps loudly)

BRAVO ZOID! BRAVO!

I couldn't agree more.

Sure people can spout this "free enterprise" this and "capitalist system" that, but there is right and wrong, and selling tickets on Ebay and letting them go @ $200 - $400 per ticket is nothing more than taking advantage of a unique situation to make a profit. So what if the bidding starts at $5 or $10, anyone with anything more than a leaky brainpan knows that all the less fortunate browncoats without tickets out there will drive the bidding up well past $100. There is an auction with a buy it now of $299 for crying out loud!

I agree w/ you Zoid, turning a huge profit is wrong. If some browncoats found themselves with extra tickets, there are several message boards where they could be sold for the face value of the ticket or say even twice or three times the value to compensate the seller for their time and effort. 100% profit is a more than generous profit margin for a "capitalist" or financially responsible person. 400% plus is not profit it is just shy of extortion.

Taking advantage of desperate or enthusiastic people is wrong. Period. Making your money back and a fair profit is one thing, making a killing is another. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking selling an $8 - $10 movie ticket for $200 plus is anything but wrong.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 6:35 AM

DIETCOKE

Hey, crazy slippers man! Hope you are doing well.

I respectfully disagree with you. It just isn't very Browncoatish to sell the tickets on E-Bay. Browncoats watch each others back and take care of each other. That's one of the things that make us special.

I was lucky enough to have a fellow Browncoat who had extra tickets and not only let me buy one from him, he set up a place for us to stay in Boston for free!

That, to me, is the spirit of a Browncoat! Thanks Cephme, you are my BDH!!!

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 6:49 AM

Hey there DietCoke! How ya been?

The point I was trying to make was that most of the people selling tickets do not appear to have bought them with the intent to sell. And I think there's a pretty vast difference between someone who intentionally buys them to resell at a killing (like the guys who are asking $2-400) and just posting it for the purchase price and letting the person who wants it most have it.

I'm much more willing to agree with your "not a very Browncoat thing to do" assessment than the zoid's "evil capitlist wants to rape you" assessment. At least you are admitting that your displeasure with the idea is based on your affinity to the fandom, rather than the general morality of being able to sell a high-demand item at an auction.

Just to clarify, though, am I correct in assuming that you would feel less strongly about this if it were a Tickle Me Elmo right before xmas instead of a Serenity ticket?

[Also, I appologize to Darin for mistaking the zoid's rant for a reply from you. I've been awake for 24+ hours working on a project, and didn't read the username closely enough.]

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 6:50 AM

The ticket brokers and other unsavory ebay types have been doing this for years with radio call-in concert tix, etc., it's quite easy to sell many and yet hide them from your unexperienced prying eyes...
These brokers have 50 or so ebay accounts, they list one ticket at a time and between the mutiple off-ebay contacts and the actual bids, they cancell an auction and can sell maybe 10-30 off a few auctions alone. Let's not even get into scalping at the actual screening and smaller local classifieds offering these things. I have 2 friends that were even approched when trying to get tix thru legit means the day of sale. As to applauding the peoeple who do so, it's exactly why these guys are being arested and taken out of their multi million dollar homes the few times you see them being busted on the TV news, people see it as smart enterprising action. when there was a fine line that was crossed.

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 6:55 AM

ZEEK

Why is it always "taking advantage of"? These people are not being forced to bid on the tickets. They can happily stand around in Zoid's fantasy. They are willingly bidding on these tickets. I know if I felt compelled to bid on those tickets, I would happily part with my money and not feel the least bit exploited.

I can understand being upset at not having tickets or being upset that you don't have the extra cash to win these auctions. Though I think the anger is being directed at the wrong people.

I know when I read 20 tickets I was jealous. I would love to be able to take all my friends to the screening. I'm over it though. Everyone will get their chance to see this movie. It's just a matter of time. As long as we aren't at each other's throats I think the time will pass quickly.

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 7:07 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by rayhill:
Just to clarify, though, am I correct in assuming that you would feel less strongly about this if it were a Tickle Me Elmo right before xmas instead of a Serenity ticket?

Nope, selling a child's toy at exuberant mark up is far more wrong as you are taking advantage of a parent trying to make their child happy.

Far as I'm concerned both are wrong, unethical and indicative of greed.

The fact that it is Serenity tickets does not enter into the equation of it being right or wrong. I am not even in or near one of the 10 screening cities, Atlanta being the closest and a ten hour drive for me. I simply find it distasteful that someone would take advantage of a fan's loyalty and desire to see the movie this way. It is made all the more worse if these people are actually Browncoats.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 7:14 AM

Simple. it's when someone else did not have equal opportunity to procur an item that was "supposedly" offered freely on a public venue, and then profits from that. Again, when others do not see this as anything wrong as such,e.g. the guy selling canned peaches for $1000 during a famine, etc., it's a lesson to be learned somewhere down the line thru experience (hopefully not a painful one). Look at this as one of the hard questions in the test of life... only a few get it correct.

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 7:19 AM

SHAMBLEAU

Well, switching the right/wrong focus a little, if you have two or three hundred you're willing to spend on Serenity, shouldn't you want that money to go to Universal, rather than anyone else? They're the ones who'll greenlight more movies, after all. And they'll do it depending on how much money they make.

I plan to go ten or more times when it opens, and I'll be dragging people along with me every time. That means I'll be contributing between one and two hundred to Serenity, counting my friends as part of mmy contribution. It'll all go into the coffers of the people who can get me more Firefly.

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 7:31 AM

MIYU

>I predict someone going to the show in rayhill's town will see rayhill standing around outside the theatre, hawking his 'spare' tickets for a quick windfall.<

not a chance in hell - I promise you. Ray is just very sociable and *really* good at converting Browncoats. I will personally attest that every one of his tix is going to a Browncoat at cost.

miyu

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 7:58 AM

RUXTON

Agreed: Meet me before the event and suuure, I'll have a ticket for you...And a bridge for sale as well.

Now, then.... I've bought a few smoking pipes on eBay and have observed the selling of a great many of them. I've discovered that some people have way more money than brains, or so it seems. Several times I've seen a bit of briar wood and vulcanite sell for thousands of dollars. Obviously someone wanted the highly collectible pipe way more than the next guy, and spent his money accordingly.

Thing is, with these NEW eBayers, zero feedback, most sellers avoid them like the plague because of the great fear of not getting paid. But if a buyer has many positive references, there's little risk of buying from them and getting ripped off.

Concerning the "morals" of the situation, clearly some sellers of these tickets seem more concerned with money than with helping fans of Firefly. But after all, there's no MANDATE to bid at all or to spend any money whatsoever, which is the bottom line.

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 10:26 AM

What people are not realizing here is the ebay auctions being used by ticket brokers are not ever going to be completed, it has nothing to do with newbie ebayers and the like, some of those actually may be legit, the brokers offer auctions to elicit as much contact as possible, then the auction will be cancelled and sold outside of ebay to as many as they can get (almost a pure profit business of items not gained fair and square) ... of course it's our choice whether to spend or not but again the point is missed, it's that there was never an equal opportunity to acquire these items (tix) which starts this whole thing on the wrong path. It's similar to the radio station given tickets to a World Series game for giveaway purposes and keeping half to use as they wish or a record store keeping promo concert tickets that were intended to be given to the public. If these brokers stood in line again and again on their own, then this would be a fair and just deal and thier choice on how they wanted to use the items in question. Once you remove the fair competition factor, anything from then on is just not kosher,..it's not even arguable, it's flat out wrong. Discussion finis.

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 11:24 AM

ROSERENE

Quote:

I respectfully disagree with you. It just isn't very Browncoatish to sell the tickets on E-Bay. Browncoats watch each others back and take care of each other. That's one of the things that make us special.

I was lucky enough to have a fellow Browncoat who had extra tickets and not only let me buy one from him, he set up a place for us to stay in Boston for free!

That, to me, is the spirit of a Browncoat! Thanks Cephme, you are my BDH!!!

Similar thing happened to me, some incredibly nice Browncoat was lucky enough to get tickets - then couldn't make it herself. She's selling me her extra ticket at face value - that is the true spirit of a Browncoat! Ebonezer - you rock!

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 11:52 AM

DARKJESTER

I just checked E-Bay, and they FINALLY have a Chicago ticket up for sale, for $250!! I'm only three hours away, and I have the cash. And I'm going to pass on the seller's kind offer to make $240 off me.

I'll wait for the next (yes? no?) sneak preview screening, or wait till September. Don't get me wrong, I feel heartsick that I'm not going. But it just feels wrong, and I'm sure I couldn't hold my head high telling other Browncoats that I spent all that money for a ticket. If it was for a special screening with the cast, and most of the purchase price going to charity, then yes. But not like this.

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 12:14 PM

rayhill:

Okay, so miyu will vouch for you. That's good enough for me. Whenever I see someone who just joined the site on the day the shows sold out, who claims to have bought 20 tickets (whether or not they were for friends matters not one whit to me), I immediately equate that with depriving others of an equal opportunity to see the movie in their own town, at the face value of the ticket. You see it differently: Your friends have more of a right to see the flick than anyone else, because they know you. Brilliant.

I never said capitalism was evil. It's not. It's the best solution to get things from a producer to the consumer, in this imperfect world. ...Right up until someone or a small group of people corner the market and then jack up the prices at a greater than 2,000 percent markup. I'll never agree that there's anything right about that, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point (if you do disagree, and I ain't sure based on conflicting statements you made between post #1 and post #2).

Scalping is to capitalism as cancer is to normal cellular growth. One's healthy and non-destructive to the body politic, the other is a runaway abomination of the healthy process.

Like I said, miyu vouches for you, so you're okay by me (if that means anything to ya). But next time, you might want to put something on your Profile page, like, "I've been watching Firefly since I heard Joss was making it / it aired on TV / the DVDs came out, et cetera." I always check the Profile page to see if there's any clues about who I'm talking to. If the only thing I get is "No information available" and a "Member Since: Saturday, April 30, 2005 00:26", it colors my reactions, especially when that person freely admits buying more than they need and says 'scalping ain't that bad, it's up to people to decide whether or not to buy'.

Yes, it is that bad. The scalper is stealing an opportunity for someone (who's every bit as deserving as your friends) to experience happiness and then selling it back to them at a criminal markup. If you don't get that, then you and I have distinctly incompatible worldviews. I am glad to hear that you (rayhill) don't intend to sell any of your tickets for a profit.

For everyone else:
If you live in Boston, or anywhere else the entire show sold out within 30 minutes, there will be tickets available from scalpers nearby the theater. It scarcely seems possible to process upward of 300 transactions in 15 minutes (as in Boston) in the middle of the day. Of course, if everyone bought tickets for friends, that would only be 15 transactions, so that seems do-able. But I suspect that scalpers were involved, and will be selling tickets in the vicinity. You should also be able to buy them for a lot less than the $299 'buy now' price on eBay.

Why aren't more tickets available on eBay? 'Cuz it's illegal in many states, and scalpers generally don't advertise their 'profession' any more than pimps do. The IRS would like to 'interview' them...

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Did anybody here successfully purchase only one or two tickets, without having to buy them from a middleman? With the exception of those tickets on eBay, and rayhill's 20, all the posts I've read are from people who are envious that they couldn't get one at face value, because they sold out so quickly. So if there's no scalping or wide-spread gluttony going on, where are all the presumed individual purchasers that the non-scalping scenarios rely upon?

Y'all sound off like ya got a pair (of tickets)...
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 1:35 PM

> Whenever I see someone who just joined the site on the day the shows sold out

Actually, I joined the site several months ago, but couldn't remember what email address I used. So I started over with my specialhell.com addy when I was ready to put up the posts about the BigDamnBoard.com. I usually haunt the OB.

> who claims to have bought 20 tickets (whether or not they were for friends matters
> not one whit to me), I immediately equate that with depriving others of an equal
> opportunity to see the movie in their own town, at the face value of the ticket.
> You see it differently: Your friends have more of a right to see the flick than
> anyone else, because they know you. Brilliant.

It's like DietCoke said. We're Browncoats, we watch each other's back. The only reason I'm getting to see it is because I got a frantic last minute call from Donna and Miyu. And the only reason I got to attend several other cool events is because my friends looked out for me. So it was only right that I return the favor and cover their backs.

If your argument is that anyone who buys more than just one ticket for themself is doing something immoral by depriving someone else of seeing the movie, then I definitely do see it differently. I don't think they have more of a right to see the movie than anyone else. It's not about having a right. *Everyone* has the right. It's about being lucky enough to find out about it while there are still tickets available, or having friends who are willing to look out for you. This time around, we got lucky. Next time someone else will. There's no entitlement about it.

> Right up until someone or a small group of people corner the market and then jack
> up the prices at a greater than 2,000 percent markup. I'll never agree that there's
> anything right about that, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point
> (if you do disagree, and I ain't sure based on conflicting statements you made
> between post #1 and post #2).

I agree with that in principle, but I think I draw the line at a different point than you do. The way I see it, there are several factors that come into play.

Intent is one of them. Does the person intend on cornering the marker and jacking up the price? Or do they just happen to be selling something that buyers place a high value on?

Another factor is immediacy. If it's something that will only be scarce for a short period of time, and then freely available after that, I do not see a problem with allowing those who are willing to pay a high price to get it sooner, and let those for whome price is more of a concern than immediacy get it in the second round.

And, of course, there are emotional concerns. If I am emotionally attached to a particular product (either because I am part of a community, like Browncoats, or because I think an alternate recipient is more deserving, such as in the Elmo example), then I will be more critical in my judgements. But I realize that not everyone is emotionally attached to the same things. So I make a distinction between the idea of an act and the instance of an act.

For example, if I saw someone at the Serenity screening pulling out a video camera and taping the show, I'd immediately report them and get them ejected from the theatre. But if the same thing happened while watching the latest National Lampoons movie, I doubt I would be as proactive.

> Like I said, miyu vouches for you, so you're okay by me (if that means anything
> to ya). But next time, you might want to put something on your Profile page,
> like, "I've been watching Firefly since I heard Joss was making it / it aired
> on TV / the DVDs came out, et cetera." I always check the Profile page to see
> if there's any clues about who I'm talking to.

There's another point where we disagree, then. I don't feel like I should have to prove any sort of geek rank before taking part in a community conversation. If someone wishes to take me less seriously or make derogatory assumptions based on the fact that I am new to the community or that they do not yet know me, I think that's their problem, not mine. Where I come from, the preferred method of dealing with not knowing anything about someone is to introduct yourself and ask. Not jump to conclusions and take comments out of context.

Ironically, though, I actually already did update my profile (while trying to add a space between my first and last names). Although nothing I wrote in that profile is really relevant to the a debate on the nature of supply and demand, so I still don't see how it would have made a difference in how you chose to compose your response to my post.

--ray

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 2:21 PM

rayhill wrote:

Quote:
...Ironically, though, I actually already did update my profile (while trying to add a space between my first and last names). Although nothing I wrote in that profile is really relevant to the a debate on the nature of supply and demand, so I still don't see how it would have made a difference in how you chose to compose your response to my post.

First, no you didn't update your profile, 'though I grant you tried to. Might want to check that.

As to the last part, I guess you were haunting the OB when all the 'new members' who just bought tickets and then googled and found our site to hawk them came around, oh, just about the same time you showed up in your 'rayhill' incarnation. Color me a mite tetchy when it comes to strangers bearing $250 tickets.

As far as introductions go, I live here. I don't recall you introducing yourself in your newly donned 'disguise' of rayhill. And it does matter to me, whether or not someone has been to the wall with other Firefly fans or not. I like newbies better than the next guy. They're so cute when they ask questions that have been answered a million times, simply because they don't realize the Archive exists. I mean that sincerely. I enjoy helping others without recompensation of any kind.

But a newbie who comes onsite offering to sell tickets for $250 each? Not so much.

I will say that you seem pretty self-assured of your motivations, you have rational arguments to negate the consequences of your actions on others, and your conscience condones your behavior. You seem to have no doubts that what you are doing is right, and that anyone else would have done the same in your stead.

The next time I and my family go to a movie, perhaps we should buy extra tickets that we don't need? Or does it have to be a really special event that we know our friends will want to see, so we just negate the whole 'first come, first served' concept, simply because we can? We got there first, so everybody else is screwed. Next time, somebody else will get there first and screw me instead. Does that pretty much sum up your position?

rayhill, my Brother, that is the most saddening thing I've heard in a long time. I agree: We do disagree in the most fundamental way, and I think that about wraps this conversation up, for my part.

Later,

zoid
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"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 3:07 PM

> First, no you didn't update your profile, 'though I grant you tried to. Might want to check that.

Gorramit. I hit the update button. Ah well. Guess it just wasn't meant to be...

> As far as introductions go, I live here. I don't recall you introducing yourself in your
> newly donned 'disguise' of rayhill.

Oh, relax. First off, this is a public forum, not a private residence or exclusive club. No one "lives" here. And "disguise"? Since when is someone's full name a disguise?

But for the record. Hi. I'm Ray. And if you missed it the first time, meet my Big Damn Board:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=9802
Enjoy.

> I like newbies better than the next guy. They're so cute when they ask questions that have
> been answered a million times, simply because they don't realize the Archive exists.

Do all the "cute" newbies get this degree of condecention from you, or am I special? (looks for the sign) Am I the 1,000,000th customer? Do I get a toaster?? :)

> But a newbie who comes onsite offering to sell tickets for $250 each? Not so much.

I don't recall anyone in this thread coming in with tickets to sell. The thread is about people on eBay selling tickets. The only people on this thread who have tickets are using them for themselves and other browncoats. Where do you get this stuff??

> The next time I and my family go to a movie, perhaps we should buy extra tickets that we
> don't need? Or does it have to be a really special event that we know our friends will
> want to see, so we just negate the whole 'first come, first served' concept, simply because
> we can? We got there first, so everybody else is screwed. Next time, somebody else will get
> there first and screw me instead. Does that pretty much sum up your position?

Oh, please. Exaggerated rhetoric really is overrated. Are you trying to tell me that if you went to the theatre alone and they had just started selling Serenity tickets, you wouldn't buy an extra ticket for your wife or your best friend? And that Cephme is somehow morally corrupt for having bought an extra ticket for DietCoke? Somehow, I don't think so.

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 3:20 PM

TLACOOK

Come back to the OB where you are loved and appreciated, darling.

*smooch*

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Wednesday, May 4, 2005 3:25 PM

Thanks, hon! This really has been an exercize in contrast.

But I'm not going to judge a whole board based on the rantings of just one troll. I'm sure most of the folks here are prefectly reasonable and swell. After all, they're browncoats, right? :)

[ Although personally, I liked the Browncoat Ball better. They gave me liquor, cute girls to teach to dance, and made me Mr. Persephone. Ah, those were the days... ;) ]

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Thursday, May 5, 2005 9:22 AM

RUXTON

Ziggy,

Of the four ticket sales I monitored, three appeared to be legitimate sales. One sold for as low as $80. One of the sales was halted before the end of the auction, but I have no idea what happened in it, or in any of the others. Could easily have been some sort of scam, but as I say, the three others seemed legit. This simply FYI, and thanks for the scam concept. I've seen it applied before, though not for tickets. The legit sellers also had histories of selling lots of other stuff (in fact, they have sold no other tickets that I could discover), but the scary bits for me were the totally new (or nearly so) eBay participants both selling and buying. That's okay for nickel-dime stuff, but would give me pause for transactions in the hundreds of dollars. Caveat emptor, I guess.

Rayhill, your comments and observations about a certain self-aggrandizing poster here are well noted, and seconded. Thank you kindly for your considerate additions to this, my latest thread.

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Thursday, May 5, 2005 10:12 AM

Ruxton wrote:

Quote:
...Rayhill, your comments and observations about a certain self-aggrandizing poster here are well noted, and seconded...

That would be me.

You needn't fear mentioning me by name. Just because we disagree in a way that not only defies reconciliation but even a basic comprehension of the other's mindset, I'd not retaliate for being called 'self-aggrandizing' or for having my honest questions and observations dismissed as 'rhetorical'. If we disagree, I'll tell you where specifically, without resorting to meaningless name-calling. When it becomes apparent that we have both stated our arguments and neither is having any effect on the other's opinions, then the debate is over. The readers may then decide with which argument they most closely agree. ...Or they may find themselves at a 90-degree angle to both our opinions.

In any case, you are entitled to your opinions, beliefs and feelings on the whole gamut of topics, including your distaste for me. I would not have it otherwise.

Have a good one.

Respectfully,

zoid
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"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Saturday, May 7, 2005 10:44 AM