*SPOILERS* Joss please respond by Zeek

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*SPOILERS* Joss please respond

POSTED BY: ZEEK
UPDATED: Thursday, September 1, 2005 03:03
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Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:23 AM

Dear Joss,

I'm sorry to be requesting even more of your time that you have so generously spent entertaining us over the years. Never the less here I am requesting it. There is a campaign going on right now about the BDM. There are people who are not happy with some of what they saw in the screenings. They are planning things like passing out postcards at the next screening to change the movie.

The browncoats have been very divided on this topic and both sides feel the movie could be ruined if something isn't done. Since you are the only one who can tell us one way or the other what will be done, it would be very appreciated if you would post a quick response to the campaign over on the Universal Serenity boards (preferably under the "I've Seen Serenity" board where spoilers live). Mainly to tell the people their requests have been heard. The browncoats who don't believe in their campaign are just hoping that their voices aren't heard by Universal and taken in a bad light. We'd hate for Universal to feel the fans aren't appreciative of the screenings and the movie in general.

So, if you could spare a moment of your time, it would go a long way to calming and reuniting the browncoats. Thank you for everything you've done for us over the years. You are in fact the man. (you know, the good kind. not that kind that's all oppressive and stuff)

And to fellow browncoats who read this, if you know of other boards Joss or someone who knows Joss might frequent, please feel free to spread this request. The quicker this is all taken care of the better.

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Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:30 AM

RABIT

Agreed. Thanks for posting this, Zeek. I was concerned from the title that it was going to be someone asking him to change the movie...

Great idea, although I'm not sure how such a response can be worded without causing the fissure to widen.

Rabit

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Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:50 AM

THIEFJEHAT

This seriously worries me.

I did not get to see the advance preview. I missed my chance at the one coming next week so I will be forced to wait until Sept 30.

It frustrates me to think that browncoats are becoming divided and that I cannot know the specifics without compromising my film experience.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Thursday, May 12, 2005 7:13 AM

ZEEK

I titled the thread with a spoiler warning but I would like to actually keep it fairly spoiler free. Just know that if you go looking for the campaign you will be spoiled and you really really shouldn't want to be spoiled. The movie is amazing IMO.

About a Joss response widening the fissure. I sure hope it wouldn't. If the campaigners can be taken at their word they claim to just want Joss to hear them and then make a decision about what to do. Granted we all know that when someone feels so strongly about something, they don't want to hear that their feelings are noted however nothing will be done. However, it might be enough to stop them from protesting or whatever. They may leave the verse or kick and scream, but hopefully it won't be in a way to scare new fans off or to upset Universal.

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Thursday, May 12, 2005 3:58 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think any campaigning is rather foolish. Certainly, we must assume that Joss Whedon is a fairly intelligent individual.

If he did X HORRIBLE THING, we can assume that he did it with his eyes open. We can assume he knew that X HORRIBLE THING would shock Browncoats, make them cry, shout, shake fists, whatever.

We can assume that he knew that many people would oppose X HORRIBLE THING.

He did it anyway. We already know where he stands on the issue.

I guess people don't realize that although Serenity is based on Firefly, it also incorporates a touch of realism, and in real life, everything isn't always Shiny.

That's part of the charm.

To paraphrase Smith from Matrix One: "The first Matrix was a paradise... but people kept trying to wake up."

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, May 12, 2005 4:13 PM

EMBERS

this is not the first time Joss has been faced with angry or upset fans...
it has happened many many times on Buffy & Angel,
he never responded then, so I can't see any reason for him to respond now.

I do encourage people to avoid spoilers so that they can experience the movie for themselves without being influenced by any...er...um...
okay, I'm having trouble thinking up terms for the control freak types who want to tell him how his story should be told.

To those who ARE campaigning to have Joss and/or Universal change the film my advice is:
that is what fan fic is for!
Write your own story, share it with your friends.
The rest of us are really not wanting to watch your movie.

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Thursday, May 12, 2005 5:27 PM

MSCKAREN

Yeah, from what I've seen there isn't a BIG divide between fans. A few people from Seattle plus one or two others and then there's the rest of us who think Joss did a great job.

He's not going to change anything cause he never does in these situations. Deal!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

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Thursday, May 12, 2005 5:56 PM

LORA

I imagine it's so that I am lacking in imagination..."Joss Whedon is my master now!" If he says X HORRIBLE THING was necessary to the development of this 'verse, then I respond with a resigned but firm "Yes, Sir."

Summer said it simplest: Joss is boss.

"Is there any way I'm gonna get out of this with honor and dignity?"

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Thursday, May 12, 2005 7:37 PM

LEEH

You know, a few fans are upset by a few plot points, but I don't think there is anything like a movement out there. There will always be a few people who can't bear to let a story unfold in any way other than what they need it to be. Joss is plenty used to this, and so is Universal, I'm sure. From what I've seen on the UB, most people are not supportive of any campaign (which would be idiotic in any case--it is much too late to change the movie, as regards budget, film schedule, soundstage scheduling, and all the other real-life things that determine how movies get made).

And for those of you who haven't seen it yet and are worried--TRUST JOSS. He is a gifted storyteller who for the most part knows what he is doing. This is fiction; what happens should be judged by the integrity of the narrative, not by attachment to anything specific about past elements of that fictional universe. Fans who are unhappy about the movie have missed Joss's thematic forest while obsessing over individual plot trees. Sad, and unnecessary.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle. . . ."

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Friday, May 13, 2005 3:53 AM

THIEFJEHAT

Without knowing specifics, I think I have my mind wrapped around the issue now. A small group of ppl from Seattle saw something that shocked and upset them and are campaigning to change X HORRIBLE THING. I'm guessing that the "Thing" is either a drastic change in a character trait (Jayne gets smart, Wash isn't funny, Zoe realizes she really likes girls) or somebody we are attached to dies. I'm leaning torward the second option.

Tragedy is a part of the human experience. It's tiresome when somebody "dies" in the trek verse but then...wait...lets go back in time and save them! Or there's some magic technology that'll cure the problem...whatever. The Firefly 'verse is a rich but realistic place. Things happen. Bad things happen. Ppl get hurt. Ppl die. It happens. What I think folks may be losing sight of here is the fact that Joss is a master storyteller and that things happen in the verse for a reason. I consider Joss to be 1 of 4 master storytellers of my time:
Joss Whedon
George RR Martin
Neil Gaiman
Frank Herbert

Each of these writers knew the precise moment to shock us with a tragedy or death. If you ever read Martin's ice and fire series you'll completely get what I'm talking about. At the time when you read about X HORRIBLE THING in his story you said "OMG! Why did he do that?" but then as you dig deeper you find yourself saying "He re-invented the story. And it's far better now than if he had never done it" If you want stories where you never fear for the well being of characters, watch trek or read a wheel of time book.

TRUST JOSS. I agree. I've placed my faith in him as a storyteller. Although I railed again and again on how I utterly despise Angel S4 and Buffy S7, I always qualified those statements by saying Joss had 3 projects going at once that year...one of them was Firefly. It's clear to me that Firefly was taking his attention. You can see the awsome improvement in quality when you watch Angel S5. I Trust that he knows what he's doing. And also in the back of my mind is the thought that whatever has ppl upset may well be a misdirect. How many times does Joss misdirect us intentionally? He openly admits to such actions in the Pilot commentary when Jayne has the rifle scope trained on Mal. At first we suspect Mals going to get plugged in the head. Only later do we figure out that Jayne was just using the scope as a way of observing the activity going down. Joss says to Nathan in the commentary "Here's the misdirect". I think folks need to wonder if X HORRIBLE THING is in fact a grand fake-out.

Of course it could clearly not be a misdirect. (somebody we love goes out an airlock in front of our eyes) Who knows.

I know Episode III will let me down. My faith is grounded in Joss. He is my master now.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Friday, May 13, 2005 5:04 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by thiefjehat:
I'm guessing that the "Thing" is either a drastic change in a character trait (Jayne gets smart, Wash isn't funny, Zoe realizes she really likes girls) or somebody we are attached to dies. I'm leaning torward the second option.

The second option!?! Wash isn't funny!?!?!?!

What kind of an evil vision of the future is that? You must have some terrible, terrible nightmares.

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Friday, May 13, 2005 6:40 AM

RABIT

Those of us who are supporting Joss in this thread are, well... kinda preachin' to the choir, ya know?

Unfortunately, those who disagree and want change are taking steps to support their goals: {WARNING: big time spoilers at this link!!!} http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=20213

Rabit

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Friday, May 13, 2005 8:56 AM

DIETCOKE

Dang, it's gettin' ugly over at the Universal board. I had to come over here for some kinda civilfiedness.

We've got people shoutin' at each other IN CAPITAL LETTERS. Over usin' exclamation points!!!!!!! There is even swearin' going on, yes, swearin'! *(*^#$#&+#@% And name calling too!

They'd be throwin' stuff, burnin' stuff, and punchin' each other if they could....but well...they can't.

You'd think we were in an Alliance bar on Unification Day!

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Friday, May 13, 2005 9:37 AM

OXYOPIA

Yeah, the UB's have pretty much become kindergarten revisited. Now, I was not much of a fan of their boards before all this started, but they certainly haven't offered much in way of enjoyable material to read since then.

Best bet is to stick around FFF.net...check out the pics in the Blue Sun room and definately make sure take a gander at the 'Ballad of Joss' that has been posted recently.

-Oxy

------------------------------------------------

'What people call impossible is just stuff they
haven't seen yet...'

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Friday, May 13, 2005 9:55 AM

DIETCOKE

Quote:
Originally posted by Oxyopia:
Yeah, the UB's have pretty much become kindergarten revisited. Now, I was not much of a fan of their boards before all this started, but they certainly haven't offered much in way of enjoyable material to read since then.

Best bet is to stick around FFF.net...check out the pics in the Blue Sun room and definately make sure take a gander at the 'Ballad of Joss' that has been posted recently.

-Oxy

Was my least favorite board. Now more least.
------------------------------------------------

'What people call impossible is just stuff they
haven't seen yet...'

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Friday, May 13, 2005 11:16 AM

THIEFJEHAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by thiefjehat:
I'm guessing that the "Thing" is either a drastic change in a character trait (Jayne gets smart, Wash isn't funny, Zoe realizes she really likes girls) or somebody we are attached to dies. I'm leaning torward the second option.

The second option!?! Wash isn't funny!?!?!?!

B]

You misunderstand. The second option is "Somebody we are attched to dies"

"Wash isn't funny" was intended to be option 1.2 per-say.

And for my part...it's going to be very interesting to fire up the time machine on Oct 1 and start reading the universal board starting May 6 2005. That is if posts don't start getting censored.

A friend of mine that reads this board from time-to-time has a story about a group of guys in 1991 who stood in a gaming store and became violently angry over the subject of "What color orcs actually are" One guy maintained that they should be dark green as protrayed in Warhammer. Another insisted Orcs are mostly black like the Tolkien Urik-hai. Others chimed in with different opinions. They got in such a shouting match about it they actually drove non-arguing customers out of the store. It wasn't qwelled because the manager on duty was defending the Tolkien orcs. Today, every one of these guys is embarrased that it ever happened. Friendships were actually tested on that day. Over freaking orcs. Freaking orcs that don't exist.

When I saw the postings about childish anger on the Universal boards I couldn't help but recall the story about the orcs. The freaking freaking orcs.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Friday, May 13, 2005 12:57 PM

RABIT

Quote:
Originally posted by thiefjehat:
You misunderstand. The second option is "Somebody we are attched to dies"

Uh, no, Zeek was just kidding - he got it... That was just him being sarcastic. Please excuse him.

Quote:
Originally posted by thiefjehat:
A friend of mine that reads this board from time-to-time has a story about a group of guys in 1991 who stood in a gaming store and became violently angry over the subject of "What color orcs actually are" One guy maintained that they should be dark green as protrayed in Warhammer. Another insisted Orcs are mostly black like the Tolkien Urik-hai. Others chimed in with different opinions. They got in such a shouting match about it they actually drove non-arguing customers out of the store. It wasn't qwelled because the manager on duty was defending the Tolkien orcs. Today, every one of these guys is embarrased that it ever happened. Friendships were actually tested on that day. Over freaking orcs. Freaking orcs that don't exist.

That is one of the best gamer stories I've ever heard/experienced (and I've been there for some similar - but more civil - discussions

).

Thanks for that!

Oh, and yeah, great analogy, too. I completely agree...

Rabit

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Friday, May 13, 2005 1:01 PM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by thiefjehat:
When I saw the postings about childish anger on the Universal boards I couldn't help but recall the story about the orcs. The freaking freaking orcs.

actually your story cheers me up no end..
because you know, that is the kind of fight that would actually make sense to Joss & be taken as a compliment;
like Angel and Spike yelling over whether Astronauts or Cavemen would win....

And where did I hear the debate about whether Mighty Mouse could beat Superman? Was that 'The Diner' or one of Jay & Silent Bob's films?

At any rate, fans freaking out over fandom trivia is a compliment to the author...
and is the way things should be.
So I feel better now.

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Friday, May 13, 2005 2:19 PM

GREENFAERIE

The freaking freaking orcs.

Perfect analogy. I think sometimes poeple argue about something not so much because it is so very important to them, but for other reasons they may not realize. Sometimes they're channeling anger over some other thing going on in their life. Sometimes they just want their point of view to win out. Sometimes they even feel that their opinion must be taken so seriously that it effects reality.

If a main character does die in Serenity, I say that's actually a good thing. People die. It will at least show Joss has no fear to tell a true story, even if it is fiction.

If Joss is god, then we are in no position to argue with him about the world he made. We should just be thankful he let us in to see it.

That last statement is not from a fanboy. I just think an artist should be able to create what he wants. The rest of us can either accept the result, ignore it, or reject it.

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Friday, May 13, 2005 3:09 PM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by GreenFaerie:

That last statement is not from a fanboy. I just think an artist should be able to create what he wants. The rest of us can either accept the result, ignore it, or reject it.

Isn't that what those folks are doing? Rejecting it? Just very, very, loudly? ;)

Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

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Friday, May 13, 2005 4:25 PM

DIETCOKE

Not only rejecting it, trying to CHANGE it! Lord, they put the "fan" in fanatic! They're taking the I'm the consumer give me what I want approach as apposed to you are the artist and either you touch me or you don't.

I'm heading up to the NE Shindig tomorrow and I may need to bring along some firearms and a couple gernades, you know, just in case.

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Sunday, May 15, 2005 5:07 PM

LORA

So, how'd the shidig play out? As fun as it should have been, or lots of arguments about X HORRIBLE THING?

"Is there any way I'm gonna get out of this with honor and dignity?"

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Sunday, May 15, 2005 5:41 PM

DIETCOKE

Quote:
Originally posted by Lora:
So, how'd the shidig play out? As fun as it should have been, or lots of arguments about X HORRIBLE THING?

"Is there any way I'm gonna get out of this with honor and dignity?"

Wow, I love my fellow Browncoats, even when we disagree! We had a ball. Yep, much talkin' and sayin' what we feel..... and then Johnathan Woodard (sp?) walked into the room and said "hi," where's Debra?"

Our BDH's came to a Shindig!!!!! How shiney is that? Don't let this stuff get you down.

Much love,

JP

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Sunday, May 15, 2005 6:17 PM

JADEHAND

Quote:
A friend of mine that reads this board from time-to-time has a story about a group of guys in 1991 who stood in a gaming store and became violently angry over the subject of "What color orcs actually are" One guy maintained that they should be dark green as protrayed in Warhammer. Another insisted Orcs are mostly black like the Tolkien Urik-hai. Others chimed in with different opinions. They got in such a shouting match about it they actually drove non-arguing customers out of the store. It wasn't qwelled because the manager on duty was defending the Tolkien orcs. Today, every one of these guys is embarrased that it ever happened. Friendships were actually tested on that day. Over freaking orcs. Freaking orcs that don't exist.

When I saw the postings about childish anger on the Universal boards I couldn't help but recall the story about the orcs. The freaking freaking orcs.

That's very disturbing. Everybody knows that orcs are more of a brownish color.

The whole "movement" these few are starting bothers me. Yes, Joss wrote it, not disney. Take tissue. I love Firefly/Serenity because the characters feel real, why be upset that real things happen?

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"So here I am once more in the playground of the broken hearts."
-Script for a Jester's Tear

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Friday, May 20, 2005 5:52 PM

LORA

Very shiny.

I feel ignorant, though: who's Jonathan Woodward? The guy who played Tracey?

"Is there any way I'm gonna get out of this with honor and dignity?"

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Friday, May 20, 2005 6:04 PM

DIETCOKE

"The Message" guy! (Body in the box? Not dead?)And he did Angel and Buffy!

A really great actor.

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Saturday, July 23, 2005 6:13 PM

THIEFJEHAT

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
actually your story cheers me up no end..
because you know, that is the kind of fight that would actually make sense to Joss & be taken as a compliment;
like Angel and Spike yelling over whether Astronauts or Cavemen would win....

Well I'm glad you all enjoyed the orc tale. A similar story I was personally involved in was in regards to a debate over a proposed duel twixt Luke Skywalker and Paul Atredies. The complexity of the duel is interesting when you consider Paul's pre-cog ability via the spice and Luke's force sensitivity and reaction to events that haven't yet occured. Both combatants are therefore attempting to defeat the other on an infinately complex level of meta-awareness.

So we started to debate about the outcome over many days. Then one evening prior to a gaming session, we were at it again. As I recall it, our DM for the evening was present and working some last minute notes into his gaming spiral notebook when he overheard us. After listening long enough to understand the general debate he interupted saying: "Dudes, your arguement is pointless, neither will win" Huh? we ask. "Think about it, they are both pre-cogs in their own fashion and you can argue the various depths to that all day...but I'm telling you truely that both are going to go nucular the moment Skywalker's saber connects with Paul's shield.

We thought about that for a few seconds and agreed he was correct. The debate never occured again.

Of course to get that you'd need to understand some things about Star Wars and Dune.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 3:03 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by thiefjehat:
"Dudes, your arguement is pointless, neither will win" Huh? we ask. "Think about it, they are both pre-cogs in their own fashion and you can argue the various depths to that all day...but I'm telling you truely that both are going to go nucular the moment Skywalker's saber connects with Paul's shield."

Oh. My. God.
LOL
(I wish we had the smilie rolling on the floor laughing)
I think that that is the best ever.

BTW have you checked out www.serenitymovie.com?
You can turn off the sound to avoid some minor spoilers, but the games are really fun!

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