Uh oh... by BadgersHat

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Uh oh...

POSTED BY: BADGERSHAT
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 13:21
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VIEWED: 3780
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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 4:56 AM

Okay, brace yourselves...

One of my best friends has a sort of co-worker friend person. This guy worked on the set of the BDM.

He has informed the lot of us that Whedon fans LOVE the flick at test screening.

However, the larger part of the audience, the NON-Whedon fans, hated it. They didn't get it, they didn't like the humor, they thought it was terrible. Also, there's apparently too damn many characters to keep track of (like the Star Trek flicks), and so the focus is almost entirely on Mal and River.

This bodes badly for the much-wanted trilogy. The story is left open to develop a trilogy, but if it doesn't do well, that's the end...

This could be disastrous, to say the least.

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
--Don't bother trying to predict, figure out, second guess, criticize, or suggest anything that comes from the mind of Joss Whedon, for you shall usually be wrong, and shall find out the Truth and Purpose in due time.
(This is the Truth of Whedoning)

"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:23 AM

RHYMEPHILE

Well, the same can be said of The X-Files: Fight the Future, which performed fairly well despite dismissive critics and absolute confusion from non-fans. And with a second X-Files film in the works, I think we should be positive about a BDM trilogy, or at least another film.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I've seen life on this planet, Scully, and that's precisely why I'm looking elsewhere."

-- Fox Mulder, The X-Files

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:36 AM

SERGEANTX

Poppycock! Balderdash! Nonsense, I say! This movie is going blow minds because it's everything that ROTS is not. It's got intriguing characters(even if their number does confuse the low attention span crowd), great dialog and real human pathos. The critics will lavish praise on it, despite the shortcomings you've mentioned, and the crowds will come. You mark my words!

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:49 AM

ZNACHKI

I believe that there might have been some of this at the very early test screenings (way before the 5/5 screening).

According to bits and pieces I've gleaned along the way, some of the folks thought they were going to see a Star Wars preview, some folks would not have chosen to see a sci-fi movie if they'd been choosing, and there were some things that were confusing for someone who had never seen the series. That's why early anonymous test screenings can be useful and problematic, and why we should try not read too much into them.

It is my understanding that the confusing aspects have been addressed. I can't remember which cast person - or it could have been Joss who said it or where (but it is available for the digging), but they did realize that, and looped some dialog, &etc.

Most of the reports I've seen from the admittedly few "non-Firefly" initiated that went to the 5/5 screening, is that they liked/loved it, and for the most part had no problems following what was going on. The nuances that we love might have been missing for them, but it doesn't necessarily prevent their enjoyment. The new fan is not carrying in the baggage that we are. If they are looking for an interesting, fast-paced, well written sci-fi movie, their expectations will most likely be met.

It's been interesting to see the problems fans have had with all this. I think it has been very difficult to try to take a step back from our past experience and try to look at it from a fresh perspective. It may be impossible.

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:55 AM

ZEEK

I've been wondering if people who haven't seen Firefly would really get the movie. I mean it has enough to keep people entertained I think, but it won't be that incredible experience if they haven't seen the series IMO.

Which is why I'm redoubling my efforts to convert new Firefly fans.

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 6:50 AM

RABIT

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Which is why I'm redoubling my efforts to convert new Firefly fans.

Yeah, but {*possible spoiler*}

Select to view spoiler:

if they're not Whedonites, they need to be warned that he's a hard, hard man, and will tear your heart out if given the chance.

Just something to think about...

I do think that, when people who are interested in the trailer come to see the movie, they will thoroughly enjoy it, immediately tell friends about it, etc.

I personally hope that they actually have an ad for the DVDs before the movie, as that will get a lot of people to better understand the beauty of the Firefly 'verse...

Rabit

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 6:53 AM

PSYCHICRIVER

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Poppycock! Balderdash! Nonsense, I say! This movie is going blow minds because it's everything that ROTS is not. It's got intriguing characters(even if their number does confuse the low attention span crowd), great dialog and real human pathos. The critics will lavish praise on it, despited the shortcomings you've mentioned, and the crowds will come. You mark my words!

Exactly. 'Nuff said.

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."

"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"

Summer Glau to me - "You are so photogenic."

Me -

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:03 AM

SERGEANTX

And I wanted to mention, I'm not picking on Revenge of the Sith. I haven't even seen it yet, and I've heard it's got plenty going for it, but all the things the critics are complaining about are areas where Joss really shines. That's why I'm saying those very same critics will be jumping up and down come September 30 saying "See... this is what we're talking about"

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:51 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I don't understand the arguement that Firefly/Serenity has "too many characters" or that it is too difficult to keep track of them. Star Wars and Star Trek both have more characters than Serenity and people don't seem to have an issue keeping up w/ them.

Other shows with many characters and their multiple story arcs: Battlestar Galactica, Stargate SG1, Stargate Atlantis, Babylon 5, and Farscape to name a few.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:41 AM

LEEH

And here's this--people went in droves to Lord of the Rings, even those who'd never read the books. As a Tolkien aficionado, I couldn't figure out how they could follow the movies without benefit of the books. But they did. In fact, some people went to Two Towers and/or ROTK who hadn't seen the previous installments! All of the above just blows away any theories we might come up with about how people won't like or understand Serenity because they lack the context of FF!

You know, I think it boils down to this (sadly)--if the word of mouth and hype are good, people will go because they will be afraid of missing something. If word of mouth is bad or nonexistent, they won't go, the box office #s will be low, and we can kiss sequels goodbye.

So let's just hope Universal has the savvy and commitment to do a good marketing job. . . .

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle. . . ."

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:41 AM

PURPLEYIN

but they're all series, which gives the viewer time to digest what they've seen. someone thats never even heard of firefly might have a hard time catching up or keeping up with the film... either that or the control group were idiots...

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:50 AM

HELL'S KITTEN

I heard the same "bad" things about the initial test screenings, BadgersHat, and none of it surprised me. The sad fact is, there will be a lot of people who (a) won't bother to see the movie and (b) will see it and won't like it.

However, the up-side to that is the current marketing scheme they've got going on at 'Versal. These advanced screenings are creating an enormous amount of "buzz" over both the movie and the series. Add to that the fact that Sci-Fi will be airing Firefly on their most popular night. That means more exposure, interest, and eventual fans.

For example, a friend of mine is a gun enthusiast (for lack of a better, innocuous word) who belongs to several online message boards like this one. One of these boards is just for gun collectors and has absolutely nothing to do with sci-fi, tv, etc. He sent me the link to one of the most popular threads on that board, and it had to do with Firefly. Started out as a question about the guns used in the show, but ended up being about the show, how good it was, what a shame it was cancelled, and so on. I was astounded by the number of people who recommended buying the DVD set and by the number of people who actually bought it based on those recommendations. Not one person disliked it; all ended up loving it and passing it on to other people, who do the same.

People hear from others, buy the DVD, love it, and will have a better... understanding?... of the movie because of the DVDs. That gives the movie a much higher shot of being successful. So the fandom is growing. And there's still time for plenty of more converts.

It's kind of amazing (and a little comforting) to know that Firefly propogation doesn't start or stop with us and it continues without even realizing it. I hate to be say it, but now that word is getting out faster, you really can't stop the signal.

Cheers.

无党派人士

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:06 AM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
And I wanted to mention, I'm not picking on Revenge of the Sith. I haven't even seen it yet, and I've heard it's got plenty going for it, but all the things the critics are complaining about are areas where Joss really shines. That's why I'm saying those very same critics will be jumping up and down come September 30 saying "See... this is what we're talking about"

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

Still, the reason Star Wars III is making huge box office numbers isn't that it's a great movie. (From what I've heard - haven't seen it myself) It has terrible dialogue, a bad plot, and continuity with holes like Swiss cheese. However, while all of that may be true, it also may be the greatest music video ever made. The visual and aural experience is, from what I've heard, unparalled. Apparently, that is what the mass audience wants in a movie these days. That may be a risk for the BDM. The mass market may not (probably won't) understand Joss' clever jokes and the subtle character interactions. Frankly, most critics probably won't understand it either, mostly because it's not something they're looking for from a "sci-fi" movie.

There is definitely a risk that non-Firefly fans will stay away in droves.

400 years ago, a guy named William Shakespeare wrote some plays that were way beyond anything that had gone before. His use of language in putting very complex thoughts into succinct phrases was amazing. His storytelling was beyond any words I have to describe. That's why his work is still remembered and studied 400 years later. However, in HIS TIME, the reason his plays always sold out the theatres was all the sex and violence that were also in them - and you thought times had changed. The mass audience in those days went to see the sword fights. That they were also treated to the best written plays ever probably went over most of their heads.

George Lucas has that figured out. He's giving everybody the sword (lightsaber) fights that most of them want. Unlike Shakespeare, he's just said to hell with the story. It's not important to making the movie a success.

Joss has a much more difficult task. He's trying to follow in Shakespeare's shoes by making an incredibly well-written "piece of art" (and don't EVER tell anyone that "Serenity" is that, or they won't go see it) a mass market success. Does it have enough "sex and violence" to make the average movie goer happy? I haven't seen it yet, so I can't say. For now all I can do is hope.

Sorry this was a little long-winded and not as pointed as I intended - other things on my mind. I'm just saying I hope Joss can follow old Will S. and make a mass success out of great art. It's not an easy balancing act.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:24 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by LeeH:
And here's this--people went in droves to Lord of the Rings, even those who'd never read the books. As a Tolkien aficionado, I couldn't figure out how they could follow the movies without benefit of the books. But they did. In fact, some people went to Two Towers and/or ROTK who hadn't seen the previous installments! All of the above just blows away any theories we might come up with about how people won't like or understand Serenity because they lack the context of FF!

You know, I think it boils down to this (sadly)--if the word of mouth and hype are good, people will go because they will be afraid of missing something. If word of mouth is bad or nonexistent, they won't go, the box office #s will be low, and we can kiss sequels goodbye.

So let's just hope Universal has the savvy and commitment to do a good marketing job. . . .

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle. . . ."

I'm not saying whether they'll go or not. I'm saying that I don't think they'll have the same emotional reaction to the movie like a Firefly fan.

Also LotR is a much more cut and dry movie. Good guy are good and bad guys are bad except for Gollum really. In Firefly Jayne is sorta good and bad. Heck Mal is too. Heck the whole crew does some pretty bad stuff at times. But they're also the heroes. You can't stare at the screen and figure all that out. You have to actually pay attention...even think. That's not mass marketing gold like Star Wars and Lord of the Rings.

Really if the movie bombs and this is the only one we get at least we can be happy that Joss delivered an amazing movie and didn't compramise to be popular.

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 11:46 AM

ICARUS

Hey, don't worry! It's gonna be ok. Just leave THAT up to Jayne to sort these people out.
Hehehe.

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:44 PM

WHEDONESQUE

Yeah, Badgershat, I think you bring up a good point. We are all such rabid fans around here that we assume that everyone who sees the movie will love it. I know that won't be the case. There are a lot of people who don't get or just don't like Joss's style. I can accept that.

I do hope that the movie gets good critical reviews and that these screenings do a good job of creating buzz and bringing more people into the fandom before they see the movie. It is a totally unreachable goal, but I do think that people who have seen the series will probably enjoy the movie more and therefore I have been stepping up my efforts lately to convert everyone I know. In fact, I bought 2 more dvd sets this week to loan out (that makes 4 total).

I also heard that the BDHs did some looping of dialogue and stuff to make things clearer for the uninitiated. I do think I can be fairly unbiased in my evaluation of the movie, so when I see it on Thursday, I will weigh in on if I think it can stand on it's own well.

I agree that 'Versal's marketing efforts could make or break this film. I thought the trailer was pretty okay and the people (not-yet-fans) that I have shown it to have liked it, but it didn't get any "wow!" reactions from anyone I know. 'Versal does seem committed to making this film successful, so I hope they really give the marketing their all. But I'm not gonna rely on them completely. I plan to do some serious guerilla marketing before the movie opens and I am also gonna try to get my meetup group to do some coordinated GM projects. The fans were responsible for getting this movie made. Now we just have to put the same energy and creativity into making it successful, right?

We've done the impossible and that makes us mighty. Mal - Serenity

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Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:21 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by BadgersHat:

He has informed the lot of us that Whedon fans LOVE the flick at test screening.

However, the larger part of the audience, the NON-Whedon fans, hated it. They didn't get it, they didn't like the humor, they thought it was terrible.

As much study and research and planning that goes into even the best test screenings they are still inexact. Anybody see the most recent Project Greenlight? The crowds were very responsive during the test screenings of the Greenlight movie but later when they filled out their survey cards they gave the movie a bad review. The producers and creatives involved that were there couldn't believe it, "But they loved it!!"
I think 2 things will make this movie more successful (and one of them isn't 'Versal's marketing since I would guess they just don't have the money); movie reviews (both national and local)and word of mouth. The best chance this movie has of being widely seen is if it gets a cult movie stamp from critics, "the little movie that could..." "from a cancelled tv show that fans wouldn't let die..." As for the other... just tell one new person a day about the BDM...

Scifi movie music 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.net

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