* SPOILERS * Will There Be Sequels and Will Non-fans Understand *SPOILERS* by Litwolf689

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

* SPOILERS * Will There Be Sequels and Will Non-fans Understand *SPOILERS*

POSTED BY: LITWOLF689
UPDATED: Saturday, October 8, 2005 15:06
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 10603
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Friday, May 27, 2005 2:04 AM

ONE LAST TIME, THERE WILL PROBABLY BE SPOILERS HERE, DONT READ IF YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW!
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Last chance!
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Okay, now that your sure.

I know and fully support that the ultimate goal of Browncoats everywhere is to get the trilogy that could happen if Serenity does well at the box office. I went to the Serenity screening in DC last night with my mom and friend and we talked about this afterward.

We believe that, though Joss did his best to make the movie enjoyable to non-fans as well as fans, they will still be kinda confused and not might stick around for the ride. They wont understand the emotional rollercoaster us Browncoats were on when we watched this movie. Sure, they will laugh at the humor, and there is humor, but I dont think they will truly understand and appreciate what Firefly was and Serenity is.

There are many Browncoats out there so our shear (sp?) numbers and multiple screenings (Im already planning to see it 4-5 times, probably more) may still get us a trilogy but Im not sure.

Please tell me what you think.

"Two roads diverged in a wood and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW! I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damnit." ~Joss

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Friday, May 27, 2005 2:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I think you're right....partially. While there certainly isn't any way to bring the Non-fans up to speed in terms of the emotional ties that bind all BDHs together, I think the BDM does well enough to clue enough folks in as to keep them watching. Sure, not everyone will 'get it' like those here, but look for sales of the DVD to rise before and after the premier. Also take into account that SciFi Channel is scheduled to re-show the entire series, in its proper sequence.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, May 27, 2005 2:23 AM

PLACIDITY

Hey LitWolf, was great sitting with you during the movie.

I agree to an extent. I think if you look at it from the point of view not knowing the backgrounds, this is a typical "new" movie. There is some mystery as to how the group was formed - how ex-members were pulled back into the ship etc.

I think it will be a hit. I thought it blew SW Ep III out of the water. It was clever-intense-thrilling.

I thought the story will def. cause people to talk, it will HELP the word of mouth as it drives people to talk about how the plot unfolds.

There is an added benefit to us BROWNCOATS since we have the background. We have stronger ties to the characters, understand more of the motivations, but so much was new......

Remember once word of mouth spreads, more people will want to go back and watch the TV Episodes, get caught up in the series, and end up watching the movie more than once!!

fox

firefly playa-haters

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Friday, May 27, 2005 3:26 AM

STILLSHINY

One of the folk I brought along knew nothing about the show and he was very impressed. In fact he is now looking forward to seeing the series.

I loved the movie, but I have to admit the epic feel of "sending the signal" felt strange. I find that I really loved the intimacy of the TV show. The family, the small scrapes & situations the crew finds themselves in.

And I know this was only a rough cut. And very very well done, my friend even commented on how polished the film looked. But I really hope they give us more time to grieve over our losses. I so want an Edmonton score during the funeral. I understand the truth & fact of Joss ripping away & killing someone we love, but I want to hurt, I wanna watch the crew fall to pieces over it. As it stands now I feel more loss over Nandi & Tracey. And that ain't right. Like I said "rough cut" just stating how I felt.

All in all I loved the movie, the humor & the action sequences were the best, classic Joss. In Joss I Trust and I know he'll do right for our grief.

The movie was a great butterfly........I just really miss the Little Damn Series.

To answer the question of this post. I sure as heck hope there are sequels, I wanna know what happens next, I wanna know "How" we keep flying. Take me back to the black & yes I plan on getting my hands on the Comics,

as for non-fans. I think they'll understand, and they will want more.

IN JOSS I TRUST.

Oh and yes I want more screenings, preferaly in the TULSA area. wouldn't mind meeting a BDH as well, I was really hoping one would have been in Dallas.

Check out my shop! Firefly & LOST products.
http://www.zazzle.com/contributors/products/gallery/browse_results.asp
?cid=238187680745956238

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

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Friday, May 27, 2005 4:00 AM

GTMAN8503

Non-fans should understand. I brought two people who had never seen the show before (and weren't huge sci-fi fans), and they absolutely loved the movie.

Assuming it makes enough money, yes...there will be sequels.

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Friday, May 27, 2005 4:00 AM

GTMAN8503

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Friday, May 27, 2005 5:28 AM

ZNACHKI

I saw the 5/5 screening, and it's been very interesting to me that the fans of the series have been so worried about how those going in cold would follow it. So far from all of the reports I've seen, they've done just fine.

We're the ones that are really having the problem. Even though we logically understand that the movie is not the series, emotionally we are having difficulty accepting it. Sure, newbies won't get many of the nuances, but do they need to, to enjoy the movie as a standalone experience? I don't think so.

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Friday, May 27, 2005 6:01 AM

CHAPTER11STUDIOS

Hi, first time here, longtime Firefly & Joss fan. I went to the 5/26 Boston screening last night. The place was wild with Firefly fans, and the screening itself was like a convention -- lots of chatting and talking and giddiness throughout the whole thing. It was unlike any movie atmosphere I've ever been to, and definitely was nice to see that 600+ people from the area turned out.

My thoughts on the films: AWESOME all the way through. I think Joss did a fantastic job of setting up the who/what/where of the story and bridging the gap for new viewers, who -- I think -- will really respond to this movie. Joss just gets it. He knows how to write and direct, and the cast, man, every one of them blew me away. So, yeah, I think it stands on its own very well and will impress the hell out of the uninitiated.

As for sequels... God I hope so. You don't suppose there's any chance, if it does really well, of bringing the show back on TV? ;-)

One last thing: Capt Mal reminded me of Han Solo on a really, really bad day. And I mean that in a good way. I'm stoked for September 30. I also think with a built-in fanbase like this, and limited competition when the movie opens, Serenity stands a very good chance of being a hit.

-Josh

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Friday, May 27, 2005 6:03 AM

CHAPTER11STUDIOS

P.S. About the whole thing with Wash. It broke my heart, made me gasp audibly (along with the rest of the crowd) and really drove home Joss's point: the stakes are real here. People die. It was an amazing, noble death that really moved me because I care about the character. And for that, I think Joss deserves to be commended, not criticized.

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Friday, May 27, 2005 6:12 AM

SHAMBLEAU

I don't think newbies will have a problem getting the general plot, although they'll miss details. The plot, though, is, in some ways, the most generic part of the movie, so some might have a "been there, seen that" reaction. The relations between the crew, also, although sketched in well, just aren't going to have the emotional weight for them that they have for us. Book's fate isn't going to make newcomers' jaws drop, for example.

I think Wash's will work on the level of shock and surprise, even if it won't churn their guts the way it did mine. Hell, after that, I felt like maybe the sequel talk was a smokescreen and everybody was going to die. It amped the gravity of the situation to ten for me. But, for the casual viewer, maybe it'll be seen as just one of the expected casualties of a genre picture, just the usual sidekick death, I don't know.

I can't believe that most people who see this won't be wowed anyway, though. It's funny, scary, moves like a bullet train, throws you into a fully imagined world, is well acted, and emotionally powerful, even if not all of the emotional depth will be there for a novice.

Whether it'll be a blockbuster or not, I can't say. I kind of doubt it. But I think it'll do well enough for a sequel, especially given DVD sales. There have been a lot of articles and books lately on the changing economics of movies. A movie like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which did diddly in the theaters, can be a bigger money-maker for the studios than some film which did 250 mil in box office, but which had to pay for massive marketing and mega-star salaries. If Serenity sold over a million copies of the DVDs, at 40 bucks a pop, say, it would make back the cost of filming right there. It'll sell a lot more than that, IMO, especially as word spreads. So, I'm not worried about if we're getting sequels, just when.

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Friday, May 27, 2005 7:03 AM

CLJOHNSTON108

Quote:
Originally posted by shambleau:
I think Wash's will work on the level of shock and surprise, even if it won't churn their guts the way it did mine.

This is the first time I've truly regretted reading a spoiler.
I just got a wave of numbness through my body, similar to the one I got when I heard about the untimely passings of Douglas Adams, Richard Biggs, Tim Choate, John Ritter & Christopher Reeve.

My next thought was, "Wash can't die! Who's gonna fly Serenity?"

Then a horrible thought struck me, "Oh my GAWD! Does Wash fly an empty Serenity on a kamikaze run?!"

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Friday, May 27, 2005 7:05 AM

CHAPTER11STUDIOS

Quote:
My next thought was, "Wash can't die! Who's gonna fly Serenity?"

I think you'll like the answer. It's pretty cool.

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Friday, May 27, 2005 7:19 AM

CLJOHNSTON108

Quote:
Originally posted by chapter11studios:
I think you'll like the answer. It's pretty cool.

If the answer's "River", then you'd be right!

But, seriously, I think of Wash and Serenity as one (not quite as inseparable as Pilot and Moya are on Farscape, but you get my drift)!

And who's gonna be the "funny one" now?!

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Friday, May 27, 2005 7:21 AM

PLACIDITY

Quote:
Originally posted by cljohnston108:
And who's gonna be the "funny one" now?!

Bob Saget

fox

firefly playa-haters

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Friday, May 27, 2005 7:29 AM

CLJOHNSTON108

Quote:
Originally posted by placidity:
Bob Saget

Ewwwwwww!

I didn't see his name on the cast list!
That's an even bigger shock!

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Friday, May 27, 2005 7:53 AM

KELLYOSAUSSIE

The movie plot was great - and I loved it. But I am also worried about the newbies. The best part about the series is the relationships, and I hope in the editing process the relationships are more fine tuned even though I know it is hard to develop all of the history in such a short space of time. I understand the reality of the death, but I wonder if Joss could have made the enormity of it better hit home.

That Zoe and Wash have this great marriage is not clear in the films to newbies. I think there could have been more "marital relief" when she comes home safe on the mule, and a few seconds more gut wrenching grief from her try to pull that thing out of him, tears, anger - remembering she is foremost his wife. A few more seconds of her vunlerability would mean something, before Mal snaping her back to soldier mode. It just went too fast, and felt too systematic - we know she is going to have to switch to autopilot, bit I think we need a few more seconds to grieve and for the awful truth to sink in. She's just lost one family member in the Shepherd. The shock is (and should be to everyone) a little ovewhelming and crumbling for her.

Overall just loved it - I hope the newbies will too.

At the end with Mal on the ship, a little flicker of emotion to make him ask after her as a person, not just as a soldier, would betray how much we all will miss his character.

*I loved Zoe's dress at the funeral scene* the holigrams though - did anyone else think they were a bit cheezy. Mr universe did fine, but it just didn't seem right for him to be buried with them. The funeral scene in the series was treated with more respect and emotion.

The scenes with Mal and Inara too was someting you wanted the newbies to more of a hint of the sexual tension between them. Remember the first starwars the hope it gave with the "kiss for luck". enough to keep you wondering and wanting to come back to the story. I loved her without ornamentation, but I would have hoped for him not to be walking away, for her to attract his attention by reaching out and touching him, and for their dialogue to be held standing closer together - the distance and lack of intimacy made me feel that there was no hope for them.

K

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Friday, May 27, 2005 11:57 AM

STILLSHINY

Yeah, I really thought that when Mal was "cowboying up with his guns he was gonna go save Wash, especially after he & Zoe had that discussion about not leaving a man behind. Then I thought ok River is gonna kick some ass and then save Wash. But it never happened. So I was left with this thought. Fine then at least show me Zoe alone in her room, either breaking something, or hitting the wall, or quietly sitting with one of Wash's dinos. Just something!!!!!! And yes get rid of the gorram holograms on the headstones. Just give me blank stone cold reality headstones.

On the drive home from Dallas today I kept thinking over the show & especially the deaths. I understand the whole point of "there's real stakes" But I just didn't feel it. Let me put it in a very Jossverse way. It was like Doyle's death, when it should have felt like Wesley's.

Now continuing on my thoughts. So what did we accomplish??? I don't know. I've been wrestling with the whole "signal" thing. I understand, it's a movie. not as intimate as the series. But the whole idea of uploading the signal so the verse knows that the alliance is bad, just seemed very out of place from the whole find a crew, find a job, keep flying idea. But I guess you need the more world impacting heroic moment of "revealing the truth, sending the signal" for the sake of the big screen. What do you all think?

Ok done with my thoughts for now.

Check out my shop! Firefly & LOST products.
http://www.zazzle.com/contributors/products/gallery/browse_results.asp
?cid=238187680745956238

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

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Friday, May 27, 2005 12:19 PM

METR0MAN

Will non fans understand it? For the most part, assuming they pay attention the whole film, yes.
Will it hit them the same way? I'd say no... like the big stuff that happens to the Alliance at the end, doesn't mean as much to a non-fan as it does to a series fan.

I brought a non-fan to the Boston screening and he enjoyed it immensely, is toying with buying the DVD of the show now. However, he was confused about Book's relationship to the crew and who he was, and also Inara's.

Still I think it's the dialogue and the humor which will endear it more to the casual audience than anything else.

As for a sequel, I sure as hell hope so. Above all, for fans and non-fans, the movie was simply FUN, even if you just paid attention to the dialouge nad nothing else. It had the kind snap crackle ride that the old Star Wars movies had.

"A man of honor... in a den of thieves!"

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Friday, May 27, 2005 12:22 PM

DANFAN

My opinion... Joss had to write two movies in one. Sort of like a poem that if you read the words with one cadence and emphasis it means one thing, but if you change the cadence and timing of the words it means something else. It must have been unimaginably hard.

On the one hand, he had to write a movie that primarily advanced the characters' relationships for the browncoats. It also had to close a story line... but really that was a secondary requirement for the Browncoats I think. Hence, Wash's death was "stomach churning" for us. And the epic feel of the story, while nicely executed, was perhaps a little unsettling for some Browncoats who truly loved the intimacy of the series.

On the other hand, he had to write a movie for the non-browncoats who weren't already invested in every single character and their relationships with each other. They will go for the epic story. The relationships are, to a degree, only "sketched in" for them. Hence, Wash's death will tend to fall into the "genre death" category for them... an interesting and likable redshirt. That crowd will like or dislike the movie based on the "can't stop the signal" theme and the effort/sacrifice to make it true.

I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. But to do so, I had to let go of my desire for the intimacy of the series... i.e., to be happy with 13 hours of family development in an action setting, and also to be happy with 2 hours of action story in a family setting. Shift in emphasis.

[slightly off topic... my personal reaction was to grieve far more for Wash than Book. And as much as I HATED to let him go, I had to understand the reason behind it. It is false to the premise if you say that they live on the very edge of survival, but not a single one can slip off of it. I think it had to happen that way to be true to the story.]

I'll call it a win. I think Joss did what he set out to do. I am optimistic for a sequel. If Joss gets the opportunity, I think that it will fall into the somewhat rare category where the sequel is better than the original because by then, even those who never saw the series will think of the survivors as family. The series browncoats and the movie browncoats will have met in the middle.

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Friday, May 27, 2005 1:08 PM

HOTFORKAYLEE

I haven't been around in some time, I have been trying to stay away from any mention of the movie until I had seen it. I went to the Miami screening last night and loved it.

I have seen every show Joss has done and have every comic but for some reason could not believe that one of ours would die, let alone two very popular ones. Naw, docs gonna fix up Book, wait, Wash can't be dead! Towards the end of the movie I thought maybe everyone was gonna die and Firefly would be laid to rest. It is still rough. The deaths will not be as meaningful to non-fans but I think the movie should do very well.

The movie needed a slight polish but was very well done. My only problem (as a fan) was some of the relationships didn't seem right as far as what we have seen, especially Mal and Simon. It seemed like some of the story between the crew had taken a few steps back while a couple of others had moved on to where they were headed.

Anyways, can not wait to see it again.

(BTW, about two years ago Lerxst had a few shirts made up for some of us with the crew on it, Firefly, Big Damn Heroes, www.fireflyfans.net. I got a few nice comments on it. :) )

Check out my Serenity tattoo:
http://www.spiderslayer.com/10701.html

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Saturday, May 28, 2005 2:50 PM

LITWOLF689

Quote:
Originally posted by chapter11studios:
P.S. About the whole thing with Wash. It broke my heart, made me gasp audibly (along with the rest of the crowd) and really drove home Joss's point: the stakes are real here. People die. It was an amazing, noble death that really moved me because I care about the character. And for that, I think Joss deserves to be commended, not criticized.

*is speechless about how perfect that statment is* omg, I never thought of it that way. It is just too true.

Anyway, Im glad you all seem so confident about non-fans. Now im feeling much better. Glad to know that non-fans still enjoyed the movie.

To those who brought non-fans with you to the screenings, how did they take Book and Wash's death? Were they confused about the characters of Inara and Book, because they were not explained that well, at least that's what I thought.

Slightly off topic, why do you guys think Book left the ship? We know why Inara left but why Book.

"Two roads diverged in a wood and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FREAKIN' SHOW! I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damnit." ~Joss

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Saturday, May 28, 2005 3:07 PM

RANGRBOB

I've read alot of people who thought Zoe didn't show enough emotion when Wash died. I saw plenty of emotion. There was the denial of his death when she is pulling at his corpse yelling at him to get moving. There was grief and the distain for life in general when she is suicidaly trying to kill the reavers in the final battle. And finaly acceptance when she is talking to Mal at the end about the spaceworthiness of the ship. In that sequence I believe she is also refering to herself. I saw plenty of emotion. She is just a hard character who doesn't need to cry to show pain.

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Saturday, May 28, 2005 10:39 PM

MANIACNUMBERONE

I thought Book's and Wash's respective demise would have meant very little to the uninitiated fan. We got to see so little of Book, that newbies didn't get a chance to know him... and his secret died with him, so it left me kind of empty. Wash's death seems unneccesary. I felt there were only a few reasons why each would have happened. They were an impetus for the crew to be angry and to have a right to seek revenge without hesitation. They allowed for Ron and Alan to go do other things in RL. I personally believe that Joss didn't want to kill either of them. That he did it either because of pressure from Universal or from Ron and Alan... or both. It won't mean as much to newbies. It's like in Star Trek when the random crewperson who went down for an away mission was killed. You didn't have any attachment to them, so it meant little along the way. But for fans, it should have meant everything, but because it was so unneeded for Wash to die and so unsatisfying when Book does, it meant too little to fans. It should have meant more. I wanted newbies to get to know both of those characters first. The movie didn't let them. Book could have been just about anybody who died along the way, and Wash was just the pilot who got a few chances to make jokes and a final safe landing before his rude end. I loved the movie. Don't get me wrong. But in it's present state, there won't be a need for a sequel. Sorry my first post in a spoiler thread had to be negative. I have lots of good things to say too.

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Inara: Who's winning?
Simon: I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
-------------------------------------------

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Sunday, May 29, 2005 10:43 AM

LITWOLF689

In Reply to ManiacNumberOne:

The deaths were pointless? Maybe to non-fans but not to us Browncoats, or at least me. Did you read what Chapter11Studios wrote? The crew of Serenity is in a war. There are always causualties. Maybe Book's death was confusing to non-fans but it was a warning to Browncoats that no one was safe. It was a typical Joss thing to do.

By the way, did Wash's death remind anyone else of Tara's from BtVS? It kinda did for me.

"Two roads diverged in a wood and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FREAKIN' SHOW! I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damnit." ~Joss

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Sunday, May 29, 2005 11:10 AM

MANIACNUMBERONE

I agree with you, Litwolf689... had I said pointless. Fortunately though, I said needless, which is an entirely different matter.
Neither of those charaters needed to die to satisfy the ends of the movie. Unless, of course the ends of the movie were as I said above... other than serving only one master. Joss tried to please everyone, and in doing so failed to completely please anyone. I'm not saying that about the whole movie, mind you. I am only referring to the deaths of Book and Wash. I think the biggest casualty in this war, was not tying up the loose ends with Book's character and relegating Wash to minor character status by having him die... how he died.

-------------------------------------------
Inara: Who's winning?
Simon: I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
-------------------------------------------

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Sunday, May 29, 2005 11:33 AM

RDHDWLDFLWR

I finally figured out what the movie really was.
"Buffy in Space" The movie was all about River being a slayer.

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Sunday, May 29, 2005 11:43 AM

LISSA

Quote:
Originally posted by Litwolf689:
In Reply to ManiacNumberOne:

The deaths were pointless? Maybe to non-fans but not to us Browncoats, or at least me. Did you read what Chapter11Studios wrote? The crew of Serenity is in a war. There are always causualties. Maybe Book's death was confusing to non-fans but it was a warning to Browncoats that no one was safe. It was a typical Joss thing to do.

By the way, did Wash's death remind anyone else of Tara's from BtVS? It kinda did for me.

i agree. also, i would like to point out that joss does things like this to make us, the fans, feel. it really is similar to tara's death in that way. some of us are angry and some of us are just sad, but we're all feeling something strong. joss doesn't give us what we want, he gives us what we need. we needed wash's death (and also book's) to give us that intense rush of emotion that is such a part of the whedon package. plus, this is joss we're talking about. maybe we also needed these deaths to set up some grand story in future movies!

~lissa, spwhore

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Sunday, May 29, 2005 1:03 PM

MANIACNUMBERONE

I truly do not believe that Joss was the reason behind Book's or Wash's death. It just was not true to his way. Joss had set up way too much background and suspicion in the series for Book to die off so cursorily. We didn't even get to see the actual death. (Not that I want to see death, but if it was gonna happen, at least show it to me.) Shepherd Book could have been almost any shepherd in the movie. For the new fan, there simply wasn't enough setup to justify killing him to gain an intense emotional response from it. For those already initiated into the Firefly world, we didn't get enough. We didn't find out who Book was in his past, all we got was a moment between Book and Mal that alluded to Book's past. For the uninitiated, It means less to them to watch a character die, if they don't know them. The budding fan felt as little for Book's death as they would have for the other miinor characters who died, that we also barely got to see. i.e. Patience, Badger.

As for making me feel, well I felt. I felt throughout the whole movie. Too much really. It wasn't needed for Book to die for me to feel, and Joss doesn't need to kill off characters to achieve that end anyway. He is a much better writer than that, and we should give him the credit he deserves as a writer and recognize where he wasn't able to do what he wished.

Either Ron Glass wanted out and so did Alan Tudyk, or Universal demanded their token deaths for the big screen, or it was due to the more likely combination of both of those ideas.

-------------------------------------------
Inara: Who's winning?
Simon: I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
-------------------------------------------

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Sunday, May 29, 2005 3:48 PM

NOOCYTE

A couple of points:

It is my firm belief that Wash was fated to expire sometime in Season one, had FF continued. His and Zoe's relationship was too good to survive long in Joss' creation. Bumpy, sure...but the biggest of those bumps was, IMHO, resolved handily when Zoe picked Wash, without a moment's hesitation, in War Stories. Relatively smooth sailing from then on, and even the prospect of a bambino. It had all the marks of funereal foreshadowing. My money's on Zoe being Great With Child for S2....

Book: I'm pretty convinced that the Operative was Joss' way of giving Book a backstory without giving Book a backstory. All the moreso with that character's fate at the end: to disappear into the black, his Beliefs shattered, to try and re-establish some sort of meaning, or melt away in the trying. Book was an Operative. The Abbey was where he went to re-calibrate his moral compass (scrambled by events in the War?). Haven was where it led, and Serenity was his ride. His parting gift to Mal was the weapon with which to defeat the Operative...by which I don't mean (just) the cannon (nice symbolism, that), but the Belief which gave him the strength to cancel out the Operative's absolute conviction.

Interestingly enough...It seems River got to become Serenity after all. I look forward to seeing our girl perform the whimsical, adroitly balletic feats which she will coax from her.

Though still bleeding internally, I did love this film!

Department of Redundancy Department

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Sunday, May 29, 2005 4:14 PM

BIKISDAD

OooooH. Cannon and canon from Book. Nice thought. I like that.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Sunday, May 29, 2005 4:21 PM

NOOCYTE

Quote:
Originally posted by bikisdad:
OooooH. Cannon and canon from Book. Nice thought. I like that.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

Word!!

Department of Redundancy Department

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Sunday, May 29, 2005 4:52 PM

CLJOHNSTON108

Quote:
Originally posted by Noocyte:
It seems River got to become Serenity after all. I look forward to seeing our girl perform the whimsical, adroitly balletic feats which she will coax from her.

A-Haaaaaa! I was right!
Is there gonna be another screening in LA?

---------------

"Reality is whatever doesn't go away when you stop believing in it."
--Philip K. Dick

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Sunday, May 29, 2005 6:08 PM

SUCCATASH

This long post contains a brief summary of my Las Vegas experience and also a Very Spoilery Movie Review

VEGAS REVIEW

Vegas: Crazy! I went down with my old pal Maniac. Within minutes of arriving at the Gold Coast hotel, we got into the elevator at the same time as two hot Asian girls. One of them asked me if I wanted a massage and handed me her business card.

I got out of the elevator and in about 30 seconds a fat old guy came up to me. “Oh, I thought your shirt said SECURITY,” he said, laughing and patting me on the back. He continued, “It says SERENITY. Well, you better hope no one thinks it says Security and decides to shoot you.” Then he walked away laughing while I stared in bewilderment at Maniac. I was wearing my official Browncoat T-shirt from the Serenity Movie store. I swear this really happened, it was very strange.

We walked across the street to the theater and waited in line for 2 ½ hours. I met several nice folk but I am terrible with names. Such nice people. I think I met Meek and Pete the Crazy Mexican, but I know that’s not right. There was a pretty gal dressed like Zoe and I enjoyed watching her walk around. There was also a gorgeous Inara nearby in line. She was with this cool guy with good vibes so out of respect I tried hard not to stare.

Maniac and I took turns buying drinks and gambling while the other waited in line, and time went by fast.

------------------------------------------------------

MOVIE REVIEW – EXTREME SPOILERS!!

I sure have mixed emotions about the movie. It was exhilarating and disappointing at the same time. I left the theater totally drained and speechless, feeling like crap.

I didn’t like how I felt. Maniac and I walked back to our hotel, too stunned and saddened to join the other Browncoats at the Irish pub in Las Vegas.

Reluctantly, I muttered to Maniac, “I don’t think this movie is going to do so well.” I hated saying it. But I don’t think mainstream society likes to walk out of a movie feeling like crap.

Mr. Universe: Cheesy. When Wash says, “We’re in trouble! We better call Mr. Universe!” I was thinking, WTF?

“Can’t Stop the Signal”: Cheesy. I never really connected with it and I don’t understand why Universal is making this the tagline for their marketing.

“I aim to misbehave”: Cheesy. Mal is so naughty!

The Operative: Not as scary or eloquent as Jubal Early.

Book: He is my favorite character, and I can’t begin to express my frustration over his part. He had just a brief scene, practically no lines. We never learn his secret and he dies in a huge fight that we never get to see. My only thought when Book died was that Ron Glass must have told Joss that he didn’t want to do it anymore. It was too quick, too shallow, and a huge disappointment to me.

Wash’s death scene shocked and saddened me, but at least he goes out with a bang, saving the crew by being a “leaf on the wind.” Such a great scene. His death comes as a huge surprise. I also like the idea of River becoming the new badass pilot; it will be interesting to see what she can do behind the wheel. It gives her something to do on Serenity, and it ties in nicely to Objects in Space, when River “becomes” Serenity.

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall it being very clear that Wash and Zoe are married. I know Zoe is a professional soldier, but I would have liked more reaction from Zoe when Wash was killed.

Again, maybe I missed it, but the movie also never describes Inara’s profession. Newbies to the ‘verse will not even know she’s a prostitute. That must have been done on purpose to please the masses. ??? It’s too bad that Shohreh Aghdashloo had her scenes removed; I was looking forward to her role in the Companion palace. I was hoping she would play Inara’s mother.

Other changes to the ‘verse I didn’t mind at all. The new Serenity looks great, especially when disguised as a Reaver ship. I like the mechanical feet that pop out when she lands. The hovering Mule was a lot of fun. Even the new version of River’s rescue was well told. The new Simon has become an angry, streetwise tough guy. I prefer the old, socially awkward Simon whose love for his sister drives him to heroics, but Sean M. did a great job.

All the acting was great; the dialogue was witty and funny (though I was so upset by people dying that I couldn’t laugh).

I loved it when Serenity flew out of the cloud and forced a battle between the Alliance and the Reavers. That was so much fun to watch. I thought all the special effects were very good.

As time passes, I remember more and more good things about the movie, and I definitely want to see it again. But I remember how disappointed, sad and empty I felt walking out of the theater. I really want more Book, alive and more or less intact. I want to know his true identity, dammit!

“When your heart gets ripped out and you feel like crap, that means it’s a good movie,” I’ve been told. Okay, sure. Good movies provoke emotions, and bad movies don’t. Whatever. Book and Wash didn’t need to die. The episode War Stories is a perfect example. It was scary and violent and life threatening… but none of the crew died (for long). In the Buffyverse, Xander gets his eye poked out and that is so terrible – but he lives. It’s actually more dramatic to have the character suffer greatly, be forced to change, and struggle on, rather than simply kill them. As I said above, it seems that Ron Glass wants out of the franchise. As for the Wash death - I actually think Joss planned that all along.

I honestly don’t know how Serenity will do at the box office, but now that I’ve seen it, I’m less optimistic about its success. I’m not going to hold my breath for a sequel. I have no desire to rush around and tell everyone how great it is. It made me feel empty and crappy, as if someone kicked me in the balls.

Despite my complaints, somewhere deep beneath my pain, I am aware that this movie is great. I hope in time I will get over it and accept the death of Book and Wash. I hope we get a sequel, or a new TV series. I really want to know what happens next.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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Monday, May 30, 2005 6:52 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Litwolf689:

We believe that, though Joss did his best to make the movie enjoyable to non-fans as well as fans, they will still be kinda confused and not might stick around for the ride. They wont understand the emotional rollercoaster us Browncoats were on when we watched this movie. Sure, they will laugh at the humor, and there is humor, but I dont think they will truly understand and appreciate what Firefly was and Serenity is.

Personally I don't think it is absolutely necessary for everyone in the theater to 'get' the emotional ride the true Firefly fans are on...
people who never watched the TV show will see an exciting interesting (and funny) movie which will hint at a lot of back story, which they will (hopefully) be curious about...
but I don't think they'll feel lost, like they can't follow the film.

And if there are subsequent movies (please God, let there be more movies!) then maybe it will be harder and harder to follow without seeing what went before...
but that was true of LotR - I don't think Return of the King would mean much if you hadn't read the books and/or seen the first two films.

it is definitely true of Harry Potter, they no longer even introduce the characters...you are expected to know them.

So I think Joss gave enough (barely) introduction to the Firefly world for new viewers to follow and enjoy the movie...but after a certain point it either gathers a larger fandom or it doesn't.
Of course I hope it does.

And why is everyone so down on the name Mr. Universe? Isn't it obvious that this was a name he game himself...like the blogger who calls himself Hercules, it is clearly over-the-top silliness...after all, this guy ALSO married his Buffybot!

And personally I found the Operative WAY scarier than Jubal Early....River actually had little trouble manipulating Early, but the Operative was a true believer who was ready to give his life for his vision of a 'better world', one without sin....
which I find to be a very scary kind of person.

PS to Succatash:
I understand the feelings of loss and mourning, I really agreed with that pain.
But I came to feel that the movie had touched me more deeply and profoundly because of that pain.
For days after seeing 'Serenity' I found it hard to think about anything else...
and I was longing to see it again
(it was even better the second time around!).

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Monday, May 30, 2005 3:00 PM

SUBGUY

Quote:
I think Wash's will work on the level of shock and surprise, even if it won't churn their guts the way it did mine. Hell, after that, I felt like maybe the sequel talk was a smokescreen and everybody was going to die. It amped the gravity of the situation to ten for me. But, for the casual viewer, maybe it'll be seen as just one of the expected casualties of a genre picture, just the usual sidekick death, I don't know.

I have to agree with you. For a time there I swore Serenity herself was permanantly OOC and actually believed they were going to kill the cast one by one by one... I kept whispering to myself, "But I thought they were signed for two more...

"

The two people I went with in Boston on 5/26 were both fans of the series before seeing the BDM, so I don't know for sure how non-fans will react, but I have to be hopefull. This was just a

great movie.

Captain Pete

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Monday, May 30, 2005 3:03 PM

SUBGUY

Quote:
Originally posted by shambleau:
Whether it'll be a blockbuster or not, I can't say. I kind of doubt it. But I think it'll do well enough for a sequel, especially given DVD sales. There have been a lot of articles and books lately on the changing economics of movies. A movie like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which did diddly in the theaters, can be a bigger money-maker for the studios than some film which did 250 mil in box office, but which had to pay for massive marketing and mega-star salaries. If Serenity sold over a million copies of the DVDs, at 40 bucks a pop, say, it would make back the cost of filming right there. It'll sell a lot more than that, IMO, especially as word spreads. So, I'm not worried about if we're getting sequels, just when.

One thing to keep in mind, the DVD sales went to FOX.

The movie rights are Universal, so they don't see anything from the DVDs until Serenity comes out in that format next (I'm guessing) Spring.

Captain Pete

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Monday, May 30, 2005 3:11 PM

SUBGUY

Quote:
Originally posted by Stillshiny:
Now continuing on my thoughts. So what did we accomplish??? I don't know. I've been wrestling with the whole "signal" thing. I understand, it's a movie. not as intimate as the series. But the whole idea of uploading the signal so the verse knows that the alliance is bad, just seemed very out of place from the whole find a crew, find a job, keep flying idea. But I guess you need the more world impacting heroic moment of "revealing the truth, sending the signal" for the sake of the big screen. What do you all think?

The basic plot of the entire movie makes sense if you look at it from the series prespective. In the series the Alliance did not even want to acknowledge the existance of the Reavers. They were a myth to be ignored. Now here we are finding out not only does the Alliance know about the Reavers, they MADE them to begin with! And I can see Mal wanting to get this out there, dispelling more of the propaganda that undoubtably went along with what caused the war against the Independants to begin with. It's just the latest symptom of a larger disease.

Captain Pete

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Monday, May 30, 2005 3:19 PM

SUBGUY

Quote:
Originally posted by HotForKaylee:
The movie needed a slight polish but was very well done. My only problem (as a fan) was some of the relationships didn't seem right as far as what we have seen, especially Mal and Simon. It seemed like some of the story between the crew had taken a few steps back while a couple of others had moved on to where they were headed.

I have to agree there. In the series it seemed as if Mal was most stand-off-ish with Book and wary yet appreciative of Simon and his talents. Yet in the movie it seemed as if Mal had grown very close to Book and was constantly butting heads with Simon.

Perhaps something happened to effect a change in the 'family' in the six months we did not see? Room perhaps for a novel or two?

Also, for all of you following this thread, I apologize for all the seperate posts, but I am catching up on it and reaching my own conclusions with each passing piece of the thread. I'll try and not take up too much more of your valuable time and computer memory space.

Captain Pete

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Monday, May 30, 2005 3:26 PM

SUBGUY

Quote:
Originally posted by lissa:
i agree. also, i would like to point out that joss does things like this to make us, the fans, feel. it really is similar to tara's death in that way. some of us are angry and some of us are just sad, but we're all feeling something strong. joss doesn't give us what we want, he gives us what we need. we needed wash's death (and also book's) to give us that intense rush of emotion that is such a part of the whedon package. plus, this is joss we're talking about. maybe we also needed these deaths to set up some grand story in future movies!

~lissa, spwhore

Likewise, who's to say Book took his secret to the grave with him? The crew of at least one Alliance ship knows who or what the Shepard really is. Perhaps Book's background and how it would effect the Serenity crew could/will be the basis of the plot of Serenity II?

Captain Pete

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Monday, May 30, 2005 4:29 PM

DANFAN

About the deaths...

Lacking any real feedback from the actors or Joss (who I'm sure are all under gag orders so as not to reveal key plot points prior to the movie's release), I'd say that the earlier posts speculating Ron and Alan perhaps didn't want to get roped into a three movie deal sounds plausible... Ron has a thriving career and Alan seems to be the hot new thing looking to spread his wings. I wouldn't blame either one of them.

About Book's death in particular...

I think that Joss is focussing on getting into movies in a big way. When he started Firefly, he was the King of TV. He knew that a character-driven series needed driving characters to have legs. So he loaded up on complex people with complex stories from which he could milk several seasons of conflict, adventure, and growth. But that is a LOT of baggage to carry into a three-movie deal. In addition to whatever other forces there were behind Book's death, I suspect that Joss was OK with it as a means of lightening up on the baggage... pruning the storyline as it were to enough to fill three movies. That said, I think Book's story would have been interesting. I'd love to have seen it... or to read about it someday.

As for our fear that the non-Browncoats won't "get" the relationships...

They don't need to. They need to enjoy a kickass action story with intriguing characters. THAT"S what will cause a second movie to happen. They'll get the relationships in the next movie (if there is one). I think it is hugely unrealistic to insist that Joss be held responsible for educating a new audience on 13 hours of character development in a 2 hour movie and STILL tell a compelling story. We Browncoats need to get over the fact that this story wasn't focussed on the relationships. Again... it was an action story with a solid background of relationships that will mean more to the audience the next time around.

My 2 cents, of course. I could be all wrong.

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:21 AM

ELLYDRAGON

I agree with exactly what MANIACNUMBERONE said earlier about the way that Wash and Book were killed. I'm not so sure it isn't Whedon that did it (it reminded me too much of the way Anya died in Season 7 of Buffy to be completely sure) but I hope that it was something like the actors not wanting to resign contracts for other movies.

I just didn't feel that the deaths of those characters was given the weight it deserved or served enough of a story purpose to be worth it in the long run. Book didn't get the screen time to be important enough to the moviegoing audience for it to make that much of a difference compared to other things that could have been done. And Wash's death didn't do much other than make me wonder what the heck was going on when it seemed like everybody was going to die. For a moment I actually thought they were going to do some kind of time rewind thing with River, especially when Simon looked like he was going to go too.

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Thursday, June 2, 2005 11:24 AM

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL

Book's death was necessary to show that the Operative would kill anyone to obtain his objectives. To the mass audience, he will seem like a kindly old man that helped out the crew, and will drive home the fact that the Operative is utterly ruthless. To the fans of the show, it has an added weight since we know and love Book.

As for Wash's death, I think it will show the mass audience that nobody is safe, and they won't be able to predict the ending of the film. As for me personally, I literally gasped and my hand involuntarily lept to my mouth - I have never had that strong of a reaction to a moment in a film. I thought it was brilliant and unexpected and shocking, and is still the moment I can't get out of my head from the film. (Well done, Joss!) It was even more shocking, since I had read a spoiler that Simon was to die, and had no idea that Book or Wash might not survive.

All in all, a fantastic movie - the best sci-fi film I've seen since Terminator 2. Easily the best movie of the year.

"I like smackin' 'em!" - Jayne Cobb

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Saturday, October 8, 2005 3:06 PM

LITWOLF689

Excuse me for beating a dead horse (aka - posting in an old thread) but I wanted to tell everyone that my opinions had changed for the better.

Today, I took several friends to see Serenity: along with my fan mom, I brought my five friends and an adult friend (father of two of my friends, sisters). The sisters and father had seen only the pilot of Firefly and 'Train Job', the others had seen nothing of the original series. All are fantasy fiends.

During the movie, they laughed, gasped, and jumped about. When we walked out, everyone told me they loved the movie. They admitted to being confused about a few things (like why people spoke Chinese) but they loved it overall and promised to tell all other friends.

I am relieved to say that I am no longer afraid non-fans will not get or enjoy Serenity. There will always be some exceptions but most should enjoy it. Thanks, my friends, for lending me your confidence until I saw it for myself.

Lets get out there and see Serenity! Im probably going to see it again (for the fourth time! But I have heard some have seen it up to 8 times 0.0)tomorrow with my dad and siblings. Bring on the sequels!!! ^_^

"Two roads diverged in a wood and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FREAKIN' SHOW! I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damnit." ~Joss

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