Just wondering... by everyworldspinnin

everyworldspinning:

I'm an air traffic controller. I sit in a tower all day trying -- to paraphrase whedonesque -- to convince pilots that they really don't wanna die on my shift. If only my customers and I shared that core value...

I've converted 3 of my 4 coworkers. Number 4's the boss, and I don't envision him sitting in the break room watching eps with the guys. But, I'm formulating a plan...

Vocationally,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 5:47 PM

JAKE

Graduate student in astrophysics here. I sit around trying to convince others that the sky really is falling while I try to convince myself that I know physics and that this is the way to go to avoid getting a real job. ;)

Seriously though, I study galactic chemical evolution, which basically tries to reproduce the Milky Way galaxy we observe today through various theoretical formation models, as well as neutron capture nucleosynthesis, which essentially explains how elements heavier than iron are formed in stars and supernovae.

Yeah, I know, what I do is pretty damn boring. Mentioning it is one helluva conversation killer. Just listen to the crickets chirping now! hehe

OK, I'll be quiet now. ;)

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:09 PM

Jake:

Actually, I think your job sounds pretty fascinating (if mostly dry; try moistening it with some ethanol). You also wrote:

Quote:
...I study galactic chemical evolution, which basically tries to reproduce the Milky Way galaxy we observe today through various theoretical formation models, as well as neutron capture nucleosynthesis, which essentially explains how elements heavier than iron are formed in stars and supernovae.

Just tell 'em, "God did it!" That ought to make you popular...

Cosmically,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I study nuclear science. I love my classes. I got a crazy teacher; he wears dark glasses." -The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades, Timbuk3

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:31 PM

I'm a... um.... a student....

"Some people juggle geese!" -Ancient Chinese proverb.

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Just tell 'em, "God did it!" That ought to make you popular...

The question is how she did it.

It’s an odd thing, but science really says that atheists are stupid, kind of rude I admit, but it’s science it can do what it likes.

The scientific method is, as I recall, observe, formulate a hypothesis, validate or reject hypothesis by predictions based on it and test of said predictions.

Atheism says screw the evidence I’ll believe what I damn well please, Agnosticism says the evidence is inconclusive so I have not decided yet, Theism says, “I’ve looked at the evidence, ignored some, emphasized other bits of it, and decided to believe.”

As there is no evidence supporting atheism, circumstantial evidence supporting theism and a total lack of concrete evidence on either side of the fence, the order from science to blind faith is as follows

1 Agnosticism: Scientific, the results are not yet in.
2 Theism: Semi-scientific, there is evidence but it is far from conclusive, sometimes produces accurate predictions.
3 Atheism: Blind faith, no evidence in support, some evidence against, yet to produce accurate predictions.

So the question isn’t really whether or not god did it, but rather how she did it, that is what science is about. After all:
-If there may be a god you try to find out how that hypothetical god created the universe, or how the universe was created without one
-If there is a god you figure out how that god created the universe
-If you honestly and deeply believe that there is no god you already rejected the scientific method so who gives a damn?

-

Sorry that was off topic, I have no job, I am a college student, I sometimes calculate the probability of verifiable miracles using classical physics, I compare bibles, I write novels (which I never seem to finish), and I generally do nothing that contributes to much of anything.

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:49 PM

Ya know...i never thought of it that way... I consider myself an atheist.....

But I would like to point out that it can be viewed that there is no evidence for theism, just some unreliable texts that happen to be old unreliable texts that say what happened. That said, i dont deny that in a way atheism is blind faith in a sense... I dont believe in a god because i dont feel that I have prove that he/she/hem exists...

Having said that, i'd also like to apologize if i have offended anyone of a faith... i have a great respect for religion, and the faith that allows people to follow and be involved in a community, and feel loved by God. I unfortunately cant seem to find that faith, because I can't get my mind around the empirical side, that I can't see any proof of religion in action. On the flipside, science, as I quote myself and probably others as saying, 'is a religion with reliable miracles'.

But while I believe science can, given enough time/etc explain everything, you have a fair point that I don't use the scientific method or anything.... well, something to contemplate.
_______________________________________________
Sorry about the thread hijacking... um getting back on topic...

I'm a student... and I um.... do some amateur acting. Yeah. *shifty eyes*

"Some people juggle geese!" -Ancient Chinese proverb.

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 7:06 PM

BATMARLOWE

I'm a loser. Don't recommend it. The pay stinks.

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 7:09 PM

KOFFEE

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
1 Agnosticism: Scientific, the results are not yet in.
2 Theism: Semi-scientific, there is evidence but it is far from conclusive, sometimes produces accurate predictions.
3 Atheism: Blind faith, no evidence in support, some evidence against, yet to produce accurate predictions.

Where in the world did you get these definitions from because as an Atheist myself, I can tell you that you are 180 degrees off from what Atheism is about. The whole point of Atheism is that we DON'T subscribe to blind faith. You might want to check out http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/ for a better understanding of Atheists and Agnostics.

----------------------------------------------
“It's a real burden being right so often.”

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:02 PM

christhecynic:

Oooohhh! Religious debate! Wait a tick... Isn't that antithetical? Ah, well! You'll get no complaints from me. Have at ye, varlet!

First, and this is just a guess, you're an agnostic, right? Know how I could tell? Whenever someone discusses their religion or (ulp!) their politics, they always spin their beliefs as being the most reasonable and sexy. Take for instance Catholicism: Very sexy. And it's all part of Rome's Master Plan for World Domination.

(Ummm... That was a joke, folks...)

I am a Christian. I find no conflict between Christianity and Science. By 'Christianity', I mean a strict adherence to Christ's teachings, as opposed to, say, the Old Testament's "eye for an eye" doctrine; or some bible-thumper who preaches the Old Testament rather than the New Law as embodied by Christ, in order to foster hatred of homosexuals, women and tax collectors (the symbol of earthly governments).

I believe that God the Creator is neither man nor woman. Why would God need sexual organs? Why would God bother with sexual orientation?

I believe 'She' created the universe as a suitable test for the Human mind. By this, I mean that no matter how often Science peels the onion of Reality, there will always be more levels of reality beneath it. No matter how deeply physicists plumb the quantum realm, they will always find new depths, new puzzles, tantalizingly beyond their grasp. (NB: Though not beyond the 'reach' of one of God's greatest gifts to Humanity: Imagination.)

I also believe that God created the universe in six days -- not six 'ages' euphemistically referred to as 'days', six days. But when 'He' created it, 'She' created it with a past. God's act of creation unfolds in the past to a moment before the Big Bang and in the future to the Big Crunch or heat death, whichever applies. Of course, 'He' might decide to stop the holographic universe before it finishes iterating, too. God's Will, wot?

But I believe there is God. Why? Because I feel 'Her' all around me and in me. I see 'Him' in the animals and the stars; I feel 'Her' in the breeze. Don't you? I don't separate myself from God's creation, nor it from myself. We are all of one wholeness. At the implicate level, everything is one, and that One is part of God. (NB: For those who are wondering 'WTF is he rambling about?', try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicate_order for some hints on where to begin a reconciliation between science and religion. David Bohm was on the right track, by my estimation.)

So, chris', you can believe what you want. Skepticism is good. And it's not like you said, "I don't believe in God." You just don't know who (which sex' turn was it?) 'She' is. Just don't forget God altogether. You can feel it can't you? We're swimming in His omnipresence, Her creation. Don't forget that feeling.

Whether you're Hindu, Muslim, agnostic, Jew... or a worshipper of any of the other 'Infinite Names of God', it matters not one whit to me. Who am I to judge? As long as your God's prime directives are to 'love the other as you love yourself' and 'seek after Me', then our gods are the same, regardless their names. Since Science professes to serve Mankind and seek the deepest mysteries of the Universe, we are of the same God.

These are my beliefs. They do not make me popular with either side of this long-standing rivalry: Science versus God. But then again, the carpenter I've been following for some time now managed to piss off everybody, too (including His own disciples). He may have been on the losing side of His earthly battles; but, I'm certain in my bones it wasn't the wrong side.

Metaphysically,

zoid

P.S.
Can we do politics next? Please, please, please? I don't think we've alienated/aggravated enough people yet. It doesn't even get interesting until people start casting stones at one another. And mark my words: The stones will be wrapped in Reasoning. That's where 'righteousness' comes from, killing people to save their souls...
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:14 PM

I don't need to look at a web site about what someone calls atheism because I meant the definition of the word not a new usage.

When I say, “Satanist,” I mean, “Person who worships Satan,” not, “Modern hedonist who chooses to rebel against what they see as arbitrary rules that society places on people who happens to use the Christian figure of Satan as a symbol of that rebellion.” So when I say, “Atheist,” I mean, “One who believes in the nonexistence of god.”

That blind belief in the nonexistence of god is very unscientific in all possible ways. If simply blindly believing in things was enough for a scientist we wouldn’t learn very much about the world now would we?

The website you have linked to has a rather odd overlap, agnosticism and “weak atheism” are the same by its definition. I define agnosticism as believing neither in god nor the non-existence of god. Your site agrees with me on this, however it also introduces the term, “weak atheism,” as “lacking belief in Gods” but not “actively believ[ing] that particular gods, or all gods, do not exist.”

In my mind this is Agnosticism as a member of this school of thought believes neither in god(s) nor the non existence of god(s).

-

If you want to argue the definition you win already. I'm not getting involved in that kind of thing.

If you want to argue that someone who believes in the nonexistence of god is scientific you’ll have a harder time. There isn’t any proof. Hell, half the things that have been pointed to as proof were known to be lies when they were cited.

For example for thousands of years (about two) atheists have been saying that virgin birth is impossible. It’s a nice target, there is no proof that it actually happened and not all theists believe in it anyway, but many didn’t just say it didn’t happen, they said it couldn’t happen. This of course goes against science as we’ve been able to prove that warm-blooded vertebrae reproduce by parthenogenesis for ages. For as long as people have had turkeys for one thing.

If you want to point to the gap between turkeys and humans that’s fine with me. However I have yet to see any paper in any respectable scientific forum comparing the occurrence of virgin birth in sexual animals to the complexity of the DNA of those animals and then extrapolating the odds of it happening in a human. Not one. We are just meant to take it on faith that it is impossible.

I don’t take things on faith.

On the side of religion you’ve got a lot of experiments, my favorite is the one in Poland, unfortunately I have not been able to get appropriate data on certain atmospheric and solar conditions. Ignoring the atmosphere and approximating on the solar it still comes out as theism 100% correct and atheism 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999777% incorrect.

But this is a pro-theist example and there is still a 00.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000223% chance that atheism is right, you’d have to take it on faith that this wasn’t just a series of coincidences like that small percent says is possible.

I don’t take things on faith, but for me this is close enough. For many (many, many, oh so very many) others it is not.

A theist looks at the world and says, “There are several a lot of verifiable highly improbable events occurring surrounding the thing known as religion. (And even more things that can’t be verified.) This is indicative of an outside factor; I’ll call that factor God.”

(Yes, it is hasty and unscientific, I never said theism was scientific, I just said it wasn’t blind faith.)

An agnostic looks at the world and says, “There is no actual proof of the existence of that factor, I reserve judgement.”

An atheist has never taken a statistics course.

-

How can you argue that? If you chose to believe in something then believe in it. If that belief is in the nonexistence of god go for it, I’ll support you on it and make sure people don't insult you, but admit the truth. To believe in the nonexistence of god is to believe without proof.

When you believe something without proof I call it, “Blind faith,” maybe you call it something else.

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:36 PM

Very interesting points, but I would like to point out that 'proof' of theism, at least in the physical kind, involving the bible n various cousins, could (and many believe are) just a bunch a books someone wrote somewhere to explain stuff they dont understand. Well, i dunno.

I would like to think that I am an open-minded atheist, and on that note, I should point out that if i am so open-minded, were i to encounter proof of god, i should welcome it. Frankly, i probably would. I'd question it, sure, but at some point, i think i could believe in God when looking at something tangible. The thing is, as it remains at the moment, I can explain, or remain confident that someone around can explain, everything around me, and for things really tiny and things really far away... well... we'll know someday.

I would like to offer that athiests believe in science without being scientists the same way thiests believe in religion without being a monk.

I'd also like to say, if anyone ever saw the movie Contact... (i'm afraid i didnt read the book) the main character gives, to me, a convincing atheistic ideal in the phrase "How can you be sure you aren't deluding yourself?"

Just some food for contemplation.

"Some people juggle geese!" -Ancient Chinese proverb.

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
First, and this is just a guess, you're an agnostic, right?

Actually ... no.

I did seriously consider pretending to be one when the first to respond was an atheist though. It's only a belief in honesty over conflict avoidance that stopped me.

My skill is in math, not science. Lack of proof doesn’t hinder me so long as the process I use gets me to the right answer. If the statistics favor that process I’ll call it correct even without solid proof unless the potential results of being wrong are very bad or my gut tells me not to.

Neither of these is the case so I accept god.

Quote:
Take for instance Catholicism: Very sexy.

God I loved the last pope, “Prejudice and enmity have no place in true religion.” Almost makes me want to be a Catholic, unfortunately there are other doctrines too.

Quote:
But then again, the carpenter I've been following for some time now managed to piss off everybody, too (including His own disciples). He may have been on the losing side of His earthly battles; but, I'm certain in my bones it wasn't the wrong side.

An important distinction if ever there was one.

Quote:
Can we do politics next? Please, please, please? I don't think we've alienated/aggravated enough people yet.

Fear the Lord and the king; do not associate with those given to change.
-Proverbs 24:21

Quote:
It doesn't even get interesting until people start casting stones at one another.

You shall stone him with stones until he dies because he tried to entice you away from the lord your god
-Deuteronomy 13:10

Quote:
And mark my words: The stones will be wrapped in Reasoning. That's where 'righteousness' comes from, killing people to save their souls...

Well we always burn down villages to save them, why not bludgeon people do death with rocks to save their souls?

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Whitefall:
I'd also like to say, if anyone ever saw the movie Contact... (i'm afraid i didnt read the book) the main character gives, to me, a convincing atheistic ideal in the phrase "How can you be sure you aren't deluding yourself?"

And then you have it bounced back at you. It works both ways. Delusion for god, delusion against god, either way is just as likely. I follow the statistics, you follow your eyes. You base your beliefs on what you see and deny that which you don’t, which is fine. Someone in Chicago has no need to believe that Bangor exists, why should someone need to believe in god?

I base my beliefs on what I understand, I can understand miracles as natural phenomena only if there is an unknown factor, and I see no reason not to call it god. If god is a part of nature or nature a part of god the result is the same to me, so why quibble whether there is an unknown factor that acts exactly like god is expected to, or a god that can be explained (incorrectly) as an unknown factor?

I don't.

-

I just wanted to add that it would very hard to prove that Bangor existed, it’s just something you do take on faith. There is nothing I can do to support it’s existence in any solid way and I’ve been there.

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 9:13 PM

EMMA

Christhecynic, you compare Bibles? Please explain

Whitefall, the Bible doesn't act as evidence for God. The Bible is only a collection of stories, myths, legends, and histories. Personal belief and the inability to explain 'things' such as the creation of the universe does that.

Zoid, how can you have a strict adherence to Christ' teachings when these teachings vary in different places and are open to different interpretations? Perhaps you mean that you have a strict adherence to your own specific understanding of his teachings, or that you follow a specific domination with regards to their teaching?

It is also inaccurate to consider the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) as presenting 'eye for an eye' teaching. There are many places in the Hebrew Bible where such teaching is proposed but also many other places where it is condemned. Plus, the New Testament has many violent and unacceptable elements - check out the Christ figure in Revelation for one.

The New Testament has just as much (and just as little) hatred of homosexuals, women and so on as the Hebrew Bible with the added addition of a copious amount of anti-Semitism (in addition to the xenophobic elements of the Hebrew Bible but in different forms).

I am a grad student studying the Bible with a specific emphasis on childrens Bibles (I am currently looking at retellings of Jonah) and the secular use of Biblical stories in culture - I am happily working on Christ figures in Buffy.

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 9:47 PM

christhecynic:

Heh-heh! Good getting 'stoned' with you, Old Testament School style!

So, New Testament style:
John 8:7
He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone...

or

Luke 6:36
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven...

I need mercy and forgiveness. I can't withstand judgment against the standard of perfection. Heck, I don't even reckon I can be judged against my fellow humans, let alone Jesus' example.

Are you sure we can't just do politics? At some point, I suspect a 'Stepford Christian' will chime in saying, "Jesus was speaking metaphorically," or some such, because his judgmental pastor told him so verbatim, and the whole flock just fell into lock-step with a plastered-on grin. I believe Christ's every word. I'm a literalist. When He told parables -- making metaphors -- Jesus always prefaced them with a disclaimer. He challenged His disciples perceptions; but, He was pretty straight with everyone else.

Dangerously,

zoid

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:12 PM

EMMA

Quote:
I believe Christ's every word.

You see, there is my difficulty with this line of reasoning. The Gospels (bearing in mind there are many more than the canonical 4) all say different things.

Let us take the last-words of Jesus as an example:

Matthew 27:46 & Mark 16:34, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me'

Luke 23:46, 'Father, into your hands I commend my spirit'

John 19:30, 'It is finished'

Now, bearing in mind these are translations (how people read the Bible depends on which translation they read, each is different to the others, not to mention the original texts - of which there are many versions) how can they all be the last words of Jesus?

The Gospel-writers were telling their own version of events for their own reasons, hence they tell different stories. It is unlikely that any of them knew Jesus (one may have done - but it is unlikely) so they are working on rumours and whispers. It is impossible to know what Jesus said, only interpret what the Gospel writers claimed that he said.

Also, dangerously, perhaps even 'asking for it'

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:39 PM

Emma:

I hear you. Depending on what version of the Bible one reads (King James, New King James, New International Version, Amplified Version, et cetera), there are subtle -- or not so subtle -- differences in the different translations. Some, like the late Reggie White for example, have gone so far as to learn the languages of the earliest texts. I haven't. I'm a King James Version guy.

But, I also don't cotton much to interpretations. In the KJV I grew up with, Jesus' utterances were writ in red. This makes 'strict adherence' to His words easier. However, my use of 'strict adherence' may itself be misinterpreted. What I mean is this: I try with all my might to live in strict adherence to His words; but, it is an attempt I fail at miserably. I look at females a little too appreciatively. I lose my temper and use profanity with little provocation. I sometimes say hurtful and unkind things to my loved ones... That's just the preamble. To make it short, I'm a shambling wreck of a cheap knockoff of Christ's example.

But, I'm still here battling, and I will be 'til I go into the great unknowable mystery that awaits every living creature. Because I have faith. Because I can feel it.

You can't, hmmm? I wish you did. I hope you may.

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Yes, the OT contains many messages of tolerance and forgiveness. But when a Christian preacher wants to encourage intolerance for women, gays, persons who engage in alternative lifestyles -- and to punish them for it -- he cracks open the old book.

Tell you what, though. You're the Bible scholar. Find me an example of Jesus -- in his own words -- saying, "Kill the sinner. Keep the woman under your heel. Shun the outsider." Get back to me when you find one of those. Take as much time as you need. (NB: I do believe that a woman was His most trusted confidante, and that she was envied by some of Jesus' disciples. That He kissed her on the mouth not only further inflamed them, but may be indicative of an even deeper relationship.)

P.P.S.
Since someone else mentioned "Contact", one of my favorite exchanges from the movie was when Matthew was challenged by Jodie to prove the existence of God, he in reply asked Jodie if she loved her deceased father. She welled with emotion and said she certainly did; he softly replied, "Prove it." Sorry I can't find the direct quote.
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:28 PM

EMMA

Try this lot for dubious statements, there are many more:

Matt. 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and forceful people lay hold of it. (This literally means - particurly in Greek - that to enter the Kingdom of Heaven people need to act violently, see also Luke 16:16)

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

Jesus to 'the Jews' who accept him: John 8:44. You people are from your father the devil, and you want to do what your father desires.

Plus, I imagine that if someone today demonstrated against something they believed in (however good the cause) by throwing their strength about in the same way Jesus did with the money lenders most of us, would object and be disgusted. The turning over of the tables in the temple is one of Jesus' most famous acts and yet many people forget it is violent and would be completely unacceptable in today's society - as it was then.

Jesus is an ambigous character (don't get me wrong, I think he is great, true political revolutionary) who, in my opinion, needs to be understood within the context of the Gospel writers. I do not believe it is possible to take his words literally as though he said them because the Gospels are political documents and as such manipulate things for the advantage of the community they were written in/for.

Also, you say that you don't go for interpretations but you interpret Jesus. You choose what chapters and verses to remember and adhere to, you choose how you understand them. This in itself is an act of interpretation, just as you interpret posts on this board (adding your own 'voice', 'appearance', 'tone' to the writing) you do the same when you read the words of Jesus.

-------
As an aside, I find the New Revised Standard Version a more accurate translation than the KJV.

Here are two very useful websites:
http://www.bible.org/netbible2/
http://www.biblegateway.com/

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:35 PM

everyworldspinnin wrote:

Quote:
Sitting out here on my deck dreading going back to work tommorow, I was just wondering, what do other FF/Serenity fans do for a living? Me, I'm a PC Tech. How bout you?

I'm a freelance cartoonist.

Presently I'm working on a two page comic strip that runs monthly until september.

It's kinda fun.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 12:14 AM

KOFFEE

Dang, almost forgot why I came to this thread for in the first place....

I am a Quality Control Laboratory Technition.

I'll get back to the debate tomorrow. Right now I have lab tests to do....

----------------------------------------------
“It's a real burden being right so often.”

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 12:56 AM

GAVIDA

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
everyworldspinning:

I'm an air traffic controller. I sit in a tower all day trying -- to paraphrase whedonesque -- to convince pilots that they really don't wanna die on my shift. If only my customers and I shared that core value...

I've converted 3 of my 4 coworkers. Number 4's the boss, and I don't envision him sitting in the break room watching eps with the guys. But, I'm formulating a plan...

Vocationally,

zoid

Hmm, I wonder how much more people you could convert if you tell the pilots of the planes you are directing "I will give you a flight path and tell you where to land if you promise me to watch Firefly asap!"

OT:
I am a civil servant (hope this is the right term I remembered and not something offensive, although some people find civil servants offensive, hehe).

See you,
Gavida

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 1:32 AM

REZLEOG2

Excellent! Back to topic!
While I am a follower of Christ, but don't think of myself as a very good Christian, I mean no disrespect to those that what to debate religion. But I AM here because I am interested in the vocations of other Browncoats.

I myself am the chief navigator of an offshore petroleum research crew. We do seismic surveys in the Gulf of Mexico (and other places) to collect data for geophysicists to decide (guess) where to drill for the oil that ends up in the tanks of everyones cars. It is my job to convince the vessels involved in the survey to be in the right place at the right time in order for the survey to provide correct information. It's an interesting job that has taken me to many interesting places in the world. One nice thing about it is that the vessels have computer networks that allow me to place all the Firefly episodes on the server, for everyone to see! I have made many converts!

Rezleog

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 1:36 AM

MANWITHPEZ

Important people don't do field work.

Hey I live in fame, or go down in flames...

That's right, nothing can stop the US Air Force...

I was trained in 1993 to be a computer operator. I got divorced, and left the Air Force in 1997...For four years, I wandered the earth like Kaine in Kung-Fu...okay, I kinda went to college, and tried to survive, but I didn't do all that great at it...I got remarried in 2000, and we welcomed our first child in 2001. So, while I had worked for the postal service for three years, they offered no benefits to speak of. I had to leave and find insurance...And guess where I found it in abundance. That's right. Now, the truly funny thing about the Air Force is that once you leave, and try to come back, they don't like you anymore. So, my cushy computer job was taken away, and I was given an Aircraft Maintenance job...Fuels. I work on the fuel systems in the planes. I stop leaks...etc, etc. However, twice, after people found out how fast I could type, I was offered flight jobs...basically as a secretary. Hey, I don't mind, as long as my bosses realize that I'm not Maggie Gyllenhal.

Word.

Why did I tell you guys all that? I don't know...Oh wait, here's the answer...another sodium pentothal dart...right in the neck...

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 2:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
everyworldspinning:

I'm an air traffic controller. I sit in a tower all day trying -- to paraphrase whedonesque -- to convince pilots that they really don't wanna die on my shift.

Zoid good buddy.

I've travelled quite a fair bit in my time, and chances are I've wondered across your air space on more than one occaision.... and even if I haven't may I just say; thanks to you and your fellow controllers for bringing me down safely. I have a love/hate thing going on with air travel and it's easy to overlook the guys n' gals behind the scenes......So Cheers Bud.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 3:37 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I'm a marketing director who longs to be a swashbuckling adventurer.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 3:45 AM

STARPILOTGRAINGER

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I'm a marketing director who longs to be a swashbuckling adventurer.

I've always said my life's ambition was to be a noble drifter in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.

But swashbuckling adventurer's probably in my top 10.

Star Pilot Grainger
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/newnumber6 (real)
http://www.livejournal.com/users/alternaljournal (fictional, travelling through another world)
Unreachable Star: http://www.unreachablestar.net - Comics & SF News/Reviews/Opinions

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 4:06 AM

Lol, has any of you swashbucklers played Monkey Island?

"Some people juggle geese!" -Ancient Chinese proverb.

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 5:12 AM

PHAEDRA

I'm a Teaching Fellow at one of them uppity law schools. There I co-teach Constitutional Law. I finish my one year tenure in about two months. Then I'm gonna sit back and do noting but watch TV and write fanfic for a while. I start working at one of them upity firms in October. So long story short, my life sux.

As for the fascenating religion strain. I'm a part-time non-practicing Catholic: none of the church going, lots of the sin [when I have time to fit it in], and 110% of the guilt [I know that I'm responsible for all the bad in the world]. But really what I aim to be in a fully practicing agnostic. Like Socrates I take comfort in believing that I'm wise, since I know that I know noting (at least regarding the nature of god). Though I buy into the theory of a higher being, I hypothesise that its very nature is more than my little mind could understand let alone comprehend. So mainly I don't think about it at all, unless I'm in the mood for some really deep mental masterbation.

Phaedra (a bad luck name)

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 5:23 AM

STEVETHEPIRATE

I'm an editor at a mid-sized publishing company. I do marketing, editing (as the title might suggest) and an unfortunately small bit of design. I long to find an employer that will allow me to become a Japanese-style window-sitter - one who has been with the company for a while but no longer works, yet has no threat of ever being fired. That would rock.

Either that, or something that will get me back into sports. I used to be a sports writer.

----------------------------------------------
"MY APOCALYPTIC TENOR HAS NOT BEEN DISPELLED!" - T-Rex ( www.qwantz.com)

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 5:30 AM

WILDHEAVENFARM

I raise dairy goats and make goat milk soaps and assorted toiletries on our family farm outside of Richmond, VA. ( http://www.vagoatsoap.com)

Top that, y'all!

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:11 AM

JADEHAND

I currently work at a hotel, which I like, but not my current job. Looking to change positions somehow.

Quote:
Originally posted by Phaedra:
As for the fascenating religion strain. I'm a part-time non-practicing Catholic: none of the church going, lots of the sin [when I have time to fit it in], and 110% of the guilt [I know that I'm responsible for all the bad in the world]. But really what I aim to be in a fully practicing agnostic. Like Socrates I take comfort in believing that I'm wise, since I know that I know noting (at least regarding the nature of god). Though I buy into the theory of a higher being, I hypothesise that its very nature is more than my little mind could understand let alone comprehend. So mainly I don't think about it at all, unless I'm in the mood for some really deep mental masterbation.

Phaedra (a bad luck name)

This about sums up my take on it too, 'cept for the Catholic part, which gets rid of the guilt part. Socrates was the man. "I drank what?"

The following from Marillion:
When I Meet God

Lyrics: Hogarth
Music: Hogarth/Kelly/Mosley/Rothery/Trewavas

And if the bottle's no solution
Why does it feel so warm
And if that girl is no solution
Why did she feel so warm
And if to feel is no solution
Why do I feel
Why do I feel so tired
Why do I feel so broken
Why do I feel so outside
Why do I seem so blind
I'm so sick of feeling
It's ruined my life
If living rough is no solution
Why does it ease my mind
If looking back is no solution
Why are we all
Nothing but children
Children inside

Why do the Gods
Sit back and watch
So many lost
What kind of mother
Leaves a child in the traffic
Turning tricks in the dark
What kind of God?

I crawled around inside myself
It was a long way down
It was a mine and it was mine
And in the darkness
I saw a perfect mirror
Floating in space

When I meet God
I'm going to ask her
What makes her cry
What makes her laugh
Is she just stars and indigo gas
Does she know why
Love has no end
But it's dark-angel friend
Tearing women and men
Slowly apart

Stain
Don't do that
Scream
Don't do that
Fail
Never do that
Never do that
I want to go out
Don't do that
I want an adventure
Just stay..
I want
Just stay in
I want to make love

And if the bottle's no solution
Why does it feel so warm
And if looking back is no solution
Why are we all just children inside
And if to feel is no solution
Why does the whole damn world feel so broken
So outside and out-of-sorts

A perfect mirror
Floating in space
Waves and numbers
But oh, such beautiful numbers
And oh, such waves..

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:11 AM

Somno:

Thanks for the thanks. Mine really is a strange job. I don't suppose there's another exactly like it, although it does have a lot in common with just about every other career listed here. We have a saying that defines air traffic control (ATC), which may put it in perspective: "ATC is hours of routine boredom, punctuated by moments of stark terror."

I'm pretty sure firemen can understand that. And maybe ICU nurses (like whedonesque). Policemen probably get more stark terror than I'd be able to stand and keep my sanity.

But retail sales... The horror... The horror...

Comparatively,

zoid

P.S.
I'll bet you are a fine pilot, who modulates his speech rate, can read his own instruments and uses an attention-getting step rather than overloading the controller on initial call. You know, "Someplace Tower, Malibu FOW-er, Fife, Tree, Keh-BECK, Pah-PAH." As opposed to SomeplaceTowerFurFye(sounds like 'two' but it might be 'three')KewPop, (takes half a breath) twentyfivemilessoutheastatfourthousanddescendingtotwentyfive (takes a quarter breath) inboundtoyourairportformulitpletouchandgoes."
Standard response: "Last aircraft calling Someplace Tower, say again."

Vocal communication is the only tool I have (no radar), but it's a two-way street. The gobbledegook I regularly get on frequency is worse than nothing: It's a 10-second block of interference through which none of my other customers can be served, and all of which will have to be repeated in chunks anyway, in order to be refined into 'information'.

But anybody who sees air travel as a necessity, as opposed to a cool way to meet new friends (i.e. mid-air), is a man after my own heart. Keep safe, stay vigilant. You never know who you're sharing the skies with; but, I do. ...Be very afraid.
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:36 AM

Emma:

All of Matthew 11, the King James Version, since it really should be taken in context: http://tinyurl.com/5a3zj . (NB: Direct links don't work on the site. You'll have to use the 'Go to Scripture' tool at the left, sorry. Make sure you get 'King James Ver' in the 'Translation' dialog.) I don't think it's really that ambiguous, and I don't think Jesus was saying that the kingdom of heaven must be taken by force. So, I'm calling 'foul'.

We all -- all humans -- interpret the world and everything in it. There's no shame in that. But I reserve the right to disagree with the 'interpretations' of others; I take the words of Jesus (later Christ) as the law.

Heck, we all interpret Firefly differently, and I'd call the show 'divinely inspired' without a hint of disingenuity. But, if I disagree with someone else's interpretation, say, that Mal really wants to be the King of Londinium, I'll tell 'em so, even if they're a Shepherd or Whedonverse expert. Even tho' I agree Mal did say, "And I'd like to be king of all Londinium and wear a shiny hat."

This has gone on too long. This is not something I'm comfortable with in a public forum, because many will find it offensive. Luckily, the exchange has remained respectful of the differing opinions of others. That is what I meant by "Dangerously". If you'd like to continue the discussion, please Message Me from my profile page, and I'll discuss it with you 'til the cows come home. Perhaps you'd find the viewpoint of a common Christian educational, from a purely academic standpoint?

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Luke 17 continues on the topic of 'trespass' or sin, and forgiveness. Use http://tinyurl.com/5a3zj, 'Go to Scripture' dialog box on the left hand side. Make sure you get 'King James Ver' in the 'Translation' dialog.

My favorite quote from that chapter is:
"The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." -Jesus (who became the Christ), Luke 17:20-21

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:39 AM

KELLAINA

I work in retail and I've got one year left to go on my political science degree.

Sitting on the deck sounds good...

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"

Browncoat? Canadian? Join us:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/canadianbrowncoats/

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:39 AM

Zoid wrote:

Quote:
ATC is hours of routine boredom, punctuated by moments of stark terror.

Ohhh.... I hear ya! Part of why I love my job so much is there's little to zero 'stark terror' involved - unless I knock the ink pot over a months worth of work, and my deadline is the next morning.... Although terror is really too strong a word for such a predicament.

On a serious note though I'm amazed by peoples almost superhuman like ability to undertake certain jobs. Yours is one of them, as are many of the occupations you previously mentioned also.

Quote:
Vocal communication is the only tool I have (no radar), but it's a two-way street. The gobbledegook I regularly get on frequency is worse than nothing: It's a 10-second block of interference through which none of my other customers can be served, and all of which will have to be repeated in chunks anyway, in order to be refined into 'information'.

Wow! It's this kinda detail that I find fascinating.

Quote:
But anybody who sees air travel as a necessity, as opposed to a cool way to meet new friends (i.e. mid-air), is a man after my own heart. Keep safe, stay vigilant.

I'm incredibly solitary when it comes to flying. I just love looking out the window too much :)

Quote:
You never know who you're sharing the skies with; but, I do. ...Be very afraid.

Nice.... Way to make a guy rest easy

I've flown over some very interesting places so I can believe what you're saying... When I was a kid I flew with my mother all over South America and on one occasion we had a fighter following us almost all the way. I swear something was up but nothing was ever said to us ( the passengers) but I remember my mum having an extremely anxious face through-out the journey. Me.... I thought it was cool, but I was eight years old and blissfully unaware of the implications of a Bolivian Jet flying around a 747.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:48 AM

SHINYGODDESS

[qoute] I raise dairy goats and make goat milk soaps and assorted toiletries on our family farm outside of Richmond, VA. [/unqoute]

I am from Louisiana. I almost took a job here for the "fun" of it that involved herding goats 5-6 days a week. I thought it could give me a different perspective on life. But instead I landed this cushy job as a Regional Admin to a communications company. There are times, though, I sit back and wonder at what adventures being the " goat girl" would have brought about. *sigh*

Lots of Love,

ShinyGoddess

" Have Good Sex!"

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Emma:
Christhecynic, you compare Bibles? Please explain

Just compare the translations on occasion really. Nothing too interesting. Oddly enough I’ve never gotten my hands on a Catholic bible, the only one remaining that contains an entire book the others do not.

Truth be told I mostly just collect them.

Quote:
The New Testament has just as much (and just as little) hatred of homosexuals, women and so on as the Hebrew Bible with the added addition of a copious amount of anti-Semitism (in addition to the xenophobic elements of the Hebrew Bible but in different forms).

I must have missed that, the only anti homosexual part I picked up on was Paul’s bit in one of the Corinthians letters. I never liked Paul anyway, not the time to explain though.

Same with other religions, the Old Testament take on people like Samaritans is
“You shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying it, all that is in it and it’s livestock-with the edge of the sword.
“And you shall gather all its plunder into the middle of the street and completely burn with the fire the city and all its plunder, for the LORD your God . It shall be a heap forever; it shall not be built again.”
New King James Deuteronomy 13:15-16

Jesus says that a Samaritan can be a good person.

The difference is incredible. A Samaritan, not just a member of another religion but a member of another religion that was once part of Judaism, the Old Testament was very clear that such a person should be killed.

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:53 AM

CANTON

I'm a computer programmer in the USAF. . .soon to be a full time student again, thinking about going Pre-Med or something.

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyGoddess:
[qoute]There are times, though, I sit back and wonder at what adventures being the " goat girl" would have brought about. *sigh*

Wow! Kinda like "Manon" from Jean De Flourette and Manon De Source Two of my favourite films :)

Also:

Quote:
" Have Good Sex!"

Is there such a thing as bad sex?..... Or am I just too keen, that I make no distinction?

pensively.....TheSomnambulist.....

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 8:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Whitefall:
Lol, has any of you swashbucklers played Monkey Island?

Of course.

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 8:02 AM

SHINYGODDESS

Now that you have given me that question, I thought about it and I think that yes, there can be bad sex. *sigh* unfortunately. But mostly ( mostly) there is good sex. lol

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 8:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jadehand:
This about sums up my take on it too, 'cept for the Catholic part, which gets rid of the guilt part. Socrates was the man. "I drank what?"

You have to get even with FOX, it's a moral imperative.

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Wednesday, June 1, 2005 8:12 AM