Should we Whoosh? by Zicsoft

Cool question. My vote: Use music instead of whoosh.

Nothings exceeds like excess.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2002 12:27 PM

I stole this from someone's (Ben Varkentine) sig on a Buffy newsgroup -

Quote:
"There's a lot of money tied up in this film and people expect to hear a boom
when something blows up, so I'll give them the boom."
George Lucas, quoted approximately by Alan Dean Foster.

Shug

Her lips were saying 'No' but then I looked into her eyes
... and her eyes were saying 'read my lips'
- Niles Crane

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Tuesday, June 4, 2002 12:43 PM

CHARLIEBLUE

Heh. I'll all for whooshing. It may not be realistic, but neither is having music floating around everywhere. It's just for atmosphere.

It's kind of like how Angel (of Buffy and Angel) insists he doesn't breathe, yet he's panting like a dog in practically every single episode. It's horribly silly when you think about it, but it lets the actor give a more natural performance.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2002 2:41 PM

OK, music might get irritating, if overused. I think that an errily silent space battle would be dramatic, and has never been done, ASFIK.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2002 4:32 PM

MOJOECA

I've always imagined the engine hum is what's heard inside, even while we're seeing the ship from the outside. But explosions...no getting around that. I don't know if I can see a space battle w/o the sound fx. Physics be damned!

--- Joe

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Tuesday, June 4, 2002 5:16 PM

Ok, Ok! Whooshes. Man, this peer pressure thing is a killer!

Nothings exceeds like excess.

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Tuesday, June 4, 2002 8:25 PM

KAMLEY

Quote:
Originally posted by shamus:
I think that an errily silent space battle would be dramatic, and has never been done, ASFIK.

Would we be calling this "Hush...in space"?

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Tuesday, June 4, 2002 8:50 PM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.

I made it an official poll. Let me know if I should add any more choices.

Now, go vote.

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Wednesday, June 5, 2002 2:27 AM

TIEKA

Quote:
Originally posted by mojoeca:
I've always imagined the engine hum is what's heard inside, even while we're seeing the ship from the outside. But explosions...no getting around that. I don't know if I can see a space battle w/o the sound fx. Physics be damned!

--- Joe

Have you ever watched a movie with the sound turned off? It seems to me that the human mind 'adds' sound to an event if we normally experience that event with sound. If we see a large moving object go by us, we hear a whoosh, so the mind expects to hear a whoosh when a (space)ship goes by. The trick to it, is to make the sound seem like it belongs and not stick out.

Sometimes music does stand out, and it just doesn't feel right. Other times music is there, but I don't hear it. It all depends on whether I am 'into' the movie or not. Especially with Angel, I don't even hear the music, but when I do pay specific attention to the music, it just fits into the atmosphere so well, it's easy to see why I miss it.

Oh yeah, the question. Should Serenity whoosh? Personally, I'd rather hear it hum, with music in the background.

Tieka

to all

Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers.

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Wednesday, June 5, 2002 1:00 PM

NOVAGRASS

Quote:
Originally posted by shamus:
OK, music might get irritating, if overused. I think that an errily silent space battle would be dramatic, and has never been done, ASFIK.

So that Shamus doesn't feel so lonley... I totally agree. I think space battles are a little lacking in the dramatic facets of Sci-fi, and a silent space battle would help add to the drama, IMO.

It might be a little boring if overused, but since it doesn't look like the ship is designed for battle, there might only be a few opportunities for space battle... which, I honestly believe is for the best.

--Dylan Palmer, aka NoVaGrAsS--

"Blood just kept pouring out of them, you'd slip in it half the time, find out bloodbath is not just a figure of speech."
-Zoe; Firefly, "Serenity" Shooting Script.

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Wednesday, June 5, 2002 2:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NoVaGrAsS:
So that Shamus doesn't feel so lonley...

QUOTE

Cool! My first pity-post!

It really is amazing, the sheer number of decisions that go into a show. Do spaceships whoosh? DO people use buttons on their clothes? Is the ship armed? Do we have artificial gravity? (Apparently the answer to that one is Yes, from the ship interior shots.) Is music a feature, or just background? On and on...

In the regular business world, this kind of thing would be locked into committee for years!

Nothings exceeds like excess.

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Thursday, June 6, 2002 5:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shamus:
Do we have artificial gravity? (Apparently the answer to that one is Yes, from the ship interior shots.)

Well, it's not much of choice. "Artificial gravity" is such a silly concept, but shooting all your space scenes on the Vomit Comet

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/health-science/html98/zero_19990
330.html

is not too practical.

But yeah, it's all details, details. Did you notice that on the Wedding Episode of Buffy, all the light switches were these weird push-button things? You only seem them on very old public buildings -- like fraternal order meeting halls, which is just the sort of place you'd expect the Harris family to charter. The amount of time and effort they must expend on details like that is mind-boggling.

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Thursday, June 6, 2002 5:16 AM

JONWES

I'm pro Woosh, pro AG

Join The Abra Moore Street Team for free Stuff!
http://i-squad.net/cgi-bin/wiley.cgi?sf=1&s=yes&u=jonwes&a=Abra+Moore

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Thursday, June 6, 2002 6:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft:
...Wedding Episode of Buffy, all the light switches were these weird push-button things?

Whoa! I did notice those switches. My grandmother's house had them. When I was five or six, I'd stand on tiptoes and punch those on and off, over and over, driving everyone insane. I just thought they were so cool.

You're right that they really sold the oldness of the wedding hall, which was actually just a set in the ME warehouse.

Antigravity: Sure, the absence of AG would be a logistical nightmare. Introducing it, though, has implications. I wonder if we'll see an episode where it fails? The Ambassador may want to re=think those dresses

Nothings exceeds like excess.

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Friday, June 7, 2002 4:43 AM

ANNE

Whooshing in the vacuum of space is absurd. Nevertheless, I'm pro-whoosh.

I'm torn on the AG thing, but I think I'm for it. I don't want to see the cast bouncing around in their chairs or on their feet unconvincingly every time the ship accelerates. Or falling around and banging their heads when the acceleration goes over a couple of G's.

(Edited, because "whooshing" may be silly, but "whoosing" is just ridiculous.)

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Friday, June 7, 2002 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Anne:
Or falling around and banging their heads when the acceleration goes over a couple of G's.

Hmm. One of the Quicktime clips on fox.com/firefly, shows the interior of Serenity. I spotted one of those overstuffed armchairs, the sort you see in a very retro living room. I guess there aren't going to be any "brace for impact!" scenes.

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Friday, June 7, 2002 11:20 AM

PANDORA

Je suis anti-whoosh.

I think it'd be rather eerie and cool- a great way to punctuate how alone these people are out there.

But that could just be me.

Pandora

"Logic is a wonderful thing, but it doesn't beat actual thought." -Terry Pratchett, the Last Continent

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Friday, June 7, 2002 11:26 AM

ANNE

I agree that not whooshing would be eerie and creative but extended stretches of silence would probably drive viewers nuts.

Of course, I'd prefer not to have extended shots of nothing happening except the ship sailing through space, too.

ZICSOFT, it's good to know they have comfy chairs. But what about emergency situations? Do they just hit the gas and let the crew members bounce off of the instrumentation?

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Friday, June 7, 2002 12:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Anne:

ZICSOFT, it's good to know they have comfy chairs. But what about emergency situations? Do they just hit the gas and let the crew members bounce off of the instrumentation?

OK, to respond to that point, I have to go into Nitpicky Technodweeb mode. Apologies.

There's no reason the Serenity crew has to bounce around at all. The ability to control gravity implies the ability to control inertia. Besides, if the Serenity can accelerate worth beans, they need some way to protect themselves for the resullting inertial forces. So the Star Trek cliche of everybody bouncing around whenever something nasty happens just doesn't make any sense. Somebody in Bermanland must have realized this, since they now announce "Inertial Dampeners Offline!" whenever they want to do a bouncy-bouncy scene. But that doesn't make sense either, cause when you're dealing with forces of that scale, letting even a little bit through quickly converts your crew to strawberry jam.

Anyway, that comfy chair (Confess!) is probably a better accelleration couch than the cafe tables they use on the Enterprise!

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Saturday, June 8, 2002 5:53 AM

MANA

I don't know if this means anything, but... I saw something on that promo that aired during X-Files that no one can find on the internet. I watched it this morning, and there is one part where everyone is on the bridge and someone says, "Everyone hold on." I guess they were about to move or go into battle or whatever. I guess that means there's a reason to hold on, so we might have the bumpy ride some people have been talking about.

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Saturday, June 8, 2002 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mana:
I don't know if this means anything, but... I saw something on that promo that aired during X-Files that no one can find on the internet. I watched it this morning, and there is one part where everyone is on the bridge and someone says, "Everyone hold on." I guess they were about to move or go into battle or whatever. I guess that means there's a reason to hold on, so we might have the bumpy ride some people have been talking about.

Oh well, another one of my brilliant theories shot down. I guess you can't have a Space Opera without a "Everyone hold on!" scene now and then. And you spaceship had better make whooshing noises as it goes by!

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Sunday, June 9, 2002 3:43 AM

FERALWANDERER

I think Fox will want Whoosh but if Joss is indeed making an anti-star trek/estabpished Sci Foi sitcom series, then going for grit and reality would suggest Whooshfree. Silence could work really well to get away from the space opera that dominates the market, brining a new sense of eerie reality to the show.

This should also apply to ordinance exchanges between ships in space...docking shots everything when shot from a POV not in a ship...

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Sunday, June 9, 2002 4:59 AM

ANNE

I know the difference. Inertia. Gravity. Really.

I feel silly for having forgotten it when I was posting, though.

Comfy chairs for everyone!

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Tuesday, July 2, 2002 9:44 AM

INARASNEWTOY

Whoosh is fine when we are at sublight, actualy perhaps a low throaty Star Trek RUMBLE would be even better. Give my subwoofer a nice workout!

But when the Serenity engages her Firefly drive i want a WHOOSH-BOOM!

Every good sci-fi show from Buck Rodgers on has had an exciting WHOOSH-BOOM when we hit lightspeed! I get very upset with Star Trek :TOS when Kirk calls for Warp 8 and we cut outside and i am assulted by the Enterprise rolling along WITHOUT WHOOOOSH-BOOM!

Give me WHOOSH-BOOM or give me death!

enTranced

One evil at a time, that's the best i can do - Farscape

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Tuesday, July 2, 2002 12:49 PM

Actually, Whooshing makes more sense in FTL travel. What's a little noise in a vacuum when you're ignoring one of the fundamental laws of physics?

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Wednesday, July 3, 2002 5:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nine:
So, when the ass-end glows, is that moving to faster-than-light? Coz then there'd be a delay before we saw the glow. the ship would have to arrive and then glow (besides the fact that its impossible). The serenity would churten!

If a spaceship can move faster than light, then light can move faster than light, no?

My point was that the light speed barrier is very very basic to modern physics. More basic than gravity, inertia, even the rules of geometry. If you set it aside, then nothing the ship does would a suprise. It can make whoosing sounds, it can dance the tango, it can hang out in bars and pick up guys.

I'm being funny, of course, but I'm not exaggerating.

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Monday, July 8, 2002 6:01 AM

Do we know for a fact there's FTL in Firefly - I've not seen anything on it (but hey what do I know?

)

Shug

"I dunno ... SPACESHIPS!"
- Tim Minear on why Firefly will be cool

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Monday, July 8, 2002 6:13 AM

NOVAGRASS

Quote:
Originally posted by Shuggie:
Do we know for a fact there's FTL in Firefly - I've not seen anything on it (but hey what do I know? )

Well... they haven't said anything about it... but they *have* said that humans have scoured the galaxy. That would probably imply faster than light space travel.

--Dylan Palmer, aka NoVaGrAsS--

The Ultimate Buffy-Angel Quote Generator™
out of service

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Monday, July 8, 2002 7:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shuggie:
Do we know for a fact there's FTL in Firefly - I've not seen anything on it (but hey what do I know? )

This is junior high science. There are nine planets orbiting our sun, and only one of these (Earth) has a breathable atmosphere. Never mind undiscovered planets, they'd be too far from the sun to sustain life. So if there are any other habitable planets, they're orbiting other stars. In our part of the galaxy, stars are about 3 light years apart.

Now, a light year, whatever Han Solo might think, is the distance it takes light to travel in one year. So if you can't travel faster than light, you're looking at multi-year voyages just to get from one world to the next. Not a good premise for a TV show!

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Monday, July 8, 2002 9:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft:
Quote:
Originally posted by Shuggie:
Do we know for a fact there's FTL in Firefly - I've not seen anything on it (but hey what do I know? )
This is junior high science.

I wouldn't know about that - I'm English and so I didn't go to 'junior high'. I was taught science at school but not things like the frequency of habitable planets.

Shug

"I dunno ... SPACESHIPS!"
- Tim Minear on why Firefly will be cool

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Tuesday, July 9, 2002 4:40 AM

Well, if you're going to be an SF fan and get into discussions about FTL travel, you really should read a book or two. All the titles I can think of are ancient. Anybody else got any suggestions?

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Tuesday, July 9, 2002 7:59 AM

Well if I have to read a book before I can enjoy Firefly then maybe it's not the show for me. We'll see - maybe it'll inspire me.

You're right about one thing though - I probably shouldn't get involved in discussions about the technology. Except that's the problem with not knowing stuff - you don't know what you don't know - so what I thought was a sensible question you thought was dumb. Ho hum.

By the way - it's not like I know no science at all - but physics was never my strong point and what little astrophysics I know I picked up here and there.

Shug

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Tuesday, July 9, 2002 8:26 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.

Quote:
Originally posted by nine:
the ship would have to arrive and then glow (besides the fact that its impossible).

It's not just impossible, but one has to wonder why the Serenity's engine even has to glow that way in the first place. From every indication, it suggests a chemical reaction, which poses some very basic problems of its own when used for space travel.

It looks cool, but there's just no way to get FTL travel from a chemical reaction no matter how powerful of an inertial dampener (another thing that needs explaining in Firefly) you have.

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Tuesday, July 9, 2002 8:41 AM

INARASNEWTOY

Quote:
Originally posted by Haken:

It's not just impossible, but one has to wonder why the Serenity's engine even has to glow that way in the first place. From every indication, it suggests a chemical reaction, which poses some very basic problems of its own when used for space travel.

It looks cool, but there's just no way to get FTL travel from a chemical reaction no matter how powerful of an inertial dampener (another thing that needs explaining in Firefly) you have.

Not neccasarily....

Remember your Trektech 101!

Federation ships have that cool blue/red glue from mixing matter and anti-matter lightly toasted in red hot plasma gathered in Bussard Collectors.

Sooooo...maybe Firefly makes use of this?

INT

One evil at a time, that's the best i can do - Farscape

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Tuesday, July 9, 2002 9:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shuggie:
Well if I have to read a book before I can enjoy Firefly then maybe it's not the show for me. We'll see - maybe it'll inspire me.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have implied that you were ignorant. But this is really basic stuff. It's not even physics. When I was 6, I had a picture book that described all the planets. If you try to read or watch (or in some nasty cases, write) SF without knowing the appropriate science, you miss 90% of the fun.

Some of the better science writers are as entertaining as any Science Fiction writer. I haven't been into space issues for a long time, so I can't recommend anybody who'd still be in print. Though this book looks promising:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471619124/qid=1026240600/sr=1-
2/ref=sr_1_2/103-5885032-3731810

If you just want to be entertained, there are certain classic "hard" SF writers who'll clue you in: Arthur Clarke, Heinlen (but avoid his later stuff) Azimov, Niven. Some of the science is out of date, especially on the assumption that Mars and Venus are inhabited (too bad about the Venusian Swamp dragons -- such witty fellows), but still a fun read.

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Tuesday, July 9, 2002 10:03 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.

Quote:
Originally posted by InarasNewToy:
Not neccasarily....

Remember your Trektech 101!

Well, this is the part where I say that I really hope Whedon is scientifically consistent within the Firefly universe. Fantasy science is fine as long as it adheres to its own logic.

Now, take a look at this picture and tell me what you see.

Want to speculate as to what is happening as the Serenity is taking off?

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Tuesday, July 9, 2002 10:30 AM

INARASNEWTOY

Quote:
Originally posted by Haken:

Want to speculate as to what is happening as the Serenity is taking off?

It looks a LOT like those cool dropships from Space Above and Beyond.

But yeah, it looks like a VTOL engine like we have today. Most likely on purpose.

But does that mean it uses today's technology? Why not give it a sci-fi name like a Farscape "Hetch" drive? Or better yet don't call it anything and accept that it works that way because it does....like SAAB did.

I never questioned what made the dropship able to reach orbit with just those stubby little engines....they just did becuase they had those cool blue whitle flmes shooting out of them!

I'm not gonna sweat it if it's crystalised Spaceslug droppings that make the Serenity travel FTL. If it looks cool enough i'll buy it for the hour and that is all that matters.

INT

One evil at a time, that's the best i can do - Farscape

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Tuesday, July 9, 2002 10:46 AM

MOJOECA

Quote:
Originally posted by Haken:

Want to speculate as to what is happening as the Serenity is taking off?

I think I see Yoda hiding back in the bushes, palms raised.

--- Joe

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Tuesday, July 9, 2002 1:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Haken:

Want to speculate as to what is happening as the Serenity is taking off?

OK, those things on the side are obviously Blivet Reaction Drives, used for athmospheric and interplanetary flight. They work by converting gas (any gas will do) into plasma and expelling the plasma out the rear. In the atmosphere, the gas is provided by those huge turbofans on the font of the pods, which also replenish the onboard high-pressure gas reservoirs. When the ship leaves the atmosphere, the opening in the front of the drives are sealed, and gas from the reservoirs is used. The drives do not have to be extremely powerful (you'll notice that the serenity is not kicking up much dust on takeoff) because most of the ship's inertia is removed by the same device that generates the artificial gravity.

Which is all BS out of my head. Probably Joss takes the "don't worry about it" approach.

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Tuesday, July 9, 2002 10:37 PM