Origin of Whedon 'sentient beings' quote by JeffQ

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Origin of Whedon 'sentient beings' quote

POSTED BY: JEFFQ
UPDATED: Friday, July 22, 2005 06:43
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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:23 AM

At one point, fireflyfans.net featured the following quote:

"I believe we are the only sentient beings in the universe, and 500 years from now we will still be the only sentient beings around. Aliens are something everyone else is doing." - Joss Whedon

Can anyone tell me where this quote was originally recorded? Thanks in advance for any assistance.

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 2:00 AM

GROUNDED

Yeah I was always kind of surprised by that quote. Do you think Joss knows just how big the universe is? ;)

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:40 AM

OPTI

http://www.post-gazette.com/tv/20020722owen0722fnp3.asp

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 4:53 AM

JEFFQ

Thanks a bunch, Opti!

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 5:17 AM

NYWOE

Quote:
Do you think Joss knows just how big the universe is? ;)

Well, 500 years isn't much time, either...

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 5:09 PM

PAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Yeah I was always kind of surprised by that quote. Do you think Joss knows just how big the universe is? ;)

I believe Joss DOES know how big the universe is... But I'm not sure you do.

It's big enough that the chances of another sentient life form developing in the part of the universe we can see and reach (at the same time as we are in it) are VERY remote.

At any reasonable rate of expansion, it will take at least 100,000 years (probably a lot more) just to colonise the rest of the galaxy (if we survive that long), and mathematcly, the chances of two sentient races developing in the same galaxy are worse than the odds for winning the lottery. Chances are, there aren't even any other sentient lifeforms in any of the galaxies we can see at the moment, let alone this one.

It's kind of depressing, but there you are.

If you're interested in this sort of stuff, try reading "Deep Future" by Stephen Baxter. As well as being a sci-fi author, he is also a world-class physicist. "Deep Future" isn't fiction, it's what they call "futurology" - scientists musing about the future. It's one of the most interesting books I've read in a while.

Pan

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Friday, July 22, 2005 12:11 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by Pan:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Yeah I was always kind of surprised by that quote. Do you think Joss knows just how big the universe is? ;)

I believe Joss DOES know how big the universe is... But I'm not sure you do.

Well that was more than a little insulting...

Quote:
Originally posted by Pan:
It's big enough that the chances of another sentient life form developing in the part of the universe we can see and reach (at the same time as we are in it) are VERY remote.

I'd be very interested if you could back that up. The part of the universe we can see is from Earth out to a distance of 13.7 billion light years, while the part we can reach...well we don't really know that yet, although I agree it's not going to be particularly far in relative terms.

Quote:
Originally posted by Pan:
mathematcly, the chances of two sentient races developing in the same galaxy are worse than the odds for winning the lottery

Where does that statistic come from? Last I knew, no one knew what the chances of sentient races developing were at all. If can provide a reference I'd appreciate it.

However, I suspect you're more interested in defending Joss's quote as not referring to the 'universe' in a literal sense, rather he means the part of the universe that is physically relevant to us. If that's the case then yes it seems unlikely we'll ever encounter other races, especially in only 500 years time.

I've read Baxter's Manifold trilogy (in which he discusses the Fermi Paradox in a hard sci-fi setting - Space, the 2nd book, deals with the eventuality that we are not alone) and thoroughly enjoyed all three books. I'll make Deep Future a priority.

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Friday, July 22, 2005 1:06 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Where does that statistic come from? Last I knew, no one knew what the chances of sentient races developing were at all. If can provide a reference I'd appreciate it.

I wonder if Joss has ever heard of the Drake Equation. I'd suspect he has. What is it ? Here -

N = R* fp ne fl fi fc L

where,

* N = The number of communicative civilizations
* R* = The rate of formation of suitable stars (stars such as our Sun)
* fp = The fraction of those stars with planets. (Current evidence indicates that planetary systems may be common for stars like the Sun.)
* ne = The number of Earth-like worlds per planetary system
* fl = The fraction of those Earth-like planets where life actually develops
* fi = The fraction of life sites where intelligence develops
* fc = The fraction of communicative planets (those on which electromagnetic communications technology develops)
* L = The "lifetime" of communicating civilizations

The Drake Equation, as it came to be known, was formulated in 1961 and is generally accepted by the scientific community. ( It wasn't untill just a few yrs ago that science had found planets around any star other than our own. ) Frank Drake's own current solution to the Drake Equation estimates 10,000 communicative civilizations in the Milky Way. Dr. Drake, who serves on the SETI League's advisory board, has personally endorsed SETI's planned all-sky survey.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, July 22, 2005 1:52 AM

PAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Quote:
Originally posted by Pan:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
Yeah I was always kind of surprised by that quote. Do you think Joss knows just how big the universe is? ;)

I believe Joss DOES know how big the universe is... But I'm not sure you do.

Well that was more than a little insulting...

Quote:
Originally posted by Pan:
It's big enough that the chances of another sentient life form developing in the part of the universe we can see and reach (at the same time as we are in it) are VERY remote.

I'd be very interested if you could back that up. The part of the universe we can see is from Earth out to a distance of 13.7 billion light years, while the part we can reach...well we don't really know that yet, although I agree it's not going to be particularly far in relative terms.

Quote:
Originally posted by Pan:
mathematcly, the chances of two sentient races developing in the same galaxy are worse than the odds for winning the lottery

Where does that statistic come from? Last I knew, no one knew what the chances of sentient races developing were at all. If can provide a reference I'd appreciate it.

However, I suspect you're more interested in defending Joss's quote as not referring to the 'universe' in a literal sense, rather he means the part of the universe that is physically relevant to us. If that's the case then yes it seems unlikely we'll ever encounter other races, especially in only 500 years time.

I've read Baxter's Manifold trilogy (in which he discusses the Fermi Paradox in a hard sci-fi setting - Space, the 2nd book, deals with the eventuality that we are not alone) and thoroughly enjoyed all three books. I'll make Deep Future a priority.

I'm sorry if you felt insulted. Having re-read my post, I've realised why you may have felt that way, but I really didn't mean it to sound like that.

Read "Deep Future", and then we'll talk some more.

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Friday, July 22, 2005 2:35 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
However, I suspect you're more interested in defending Joss's quote as not referring to the 'universe' in a literal sense, rather he means the part of the universe that is physically relevant to us. If that's the case then yes it seems unlikely we'll ever encounter other races, especially in only 500 years time.

yeah, I think that that is the point:
defending Joss' quote.

IMO JW never wanted to write about aliens, not because they couldn't possibly exist but because it detracts from the human story he is interested in telling.
And since he has confined himself to one solar system, and evidently little or no travel to other galaxies even by the Alliance, it really makes statistical sense that there wouldn't be aliens living there.

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Friday, July 22, 2005 2:54 AM

DANFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
the Drake Equation -

N = R* fp ne fl fi fc L

The equation is probably a pretty good model for determining (statistically) how crowded our skies might be. I'm sure that's why scientists generally accept the equation.

Alas, the values entered for 5 of the 7 parameters in the right side of that equation are what we in engineering call "Wild Assed Guesses" or WAGs. Which means the answer you get from the equation is a direct result of whatever largely unsubstantiated beliefs you feed into it from the front end. The only experience we have to feed into those 5 parameters comes from a statistical examination of a set of planets containing... one planet.

I really do want us to have company out there. I tend to interpret Joss' statement as others in this thread have... over the next half millenia, the odds of us finding another sentient species within our reach are probably low. So he would prefer to ignore that remote possibility and focus on people stories.

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Friday, July 22, 2005 6:43 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by Pan:
I'm sorry if you felt insulted. Having re-read my post, I've realised why you may have felt that way, but I really didn't mean it to sound like that.

Read "Deep Future", and then we'll talk some more.

It's no problem. Deep Future is my next buy :)

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