Regarding my Physics post... by BadgersHat

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Regarding my Physics post...

POSTED BY: BADGERSHAT
UPDATED: Monday, July 25, 2005 13:31
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Monday, July 25, 2005 5:39 AM

Okay, folks...

Let's focus.

I said "Let's discuss how F=MA and you can't push a rope" relate to Firefly.

I did NOT invite a discussion on hyper string theory, dark matter, gravity curves, etc etc etc.

I want you somewhat loyal subjects of mine to discuss in detail why a rope cannot be pushed, and how said unpushability of the aforementioned rope affects the BDHs in the 'verse.

Anyone deviating from these instructions will be injected with concentrated Red Bull, and forced to watch 24 consecutive hours of PAX TV without commercials.

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
I'm not an actor. ButI play one on TV.

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Monday, July 25, 2005 5:50 AM

FOURSKYS

As one of the said "offenders" in the other post, I just thought I'd come to my own defense and repost a post of mine that was "slightly" on-topic. Kind of an "I tried" stab, but mostly got lost in string theory and the like :-)

1) F=M*a:

This is mostly cleaerly seen through Jayne. Jayne is clearly larger than the rest of the crew, and, assuming human beings are all equally dense, he has the most mass, and the biggest M. His acceleration is often controlled by his circumstances, and thus we need to look at some particular situations. Let's investigate "The Train Job". Here, Jayne is seen to fall from a substantial height onto the top of a moving train. This gives him a non-zero a. Large mass * significant a = impressive force. How do we know that the force was impressive? We go back to the ansatz posited by BadgersHat which states more mass and more acceleration yeilds a "louder crunch when it hits something". Thus, since we obviously hear a significantly loud crunch as Jayne falls onto the train, we can clearly see that BadgersHat Rule 1 clearly is applicable and significant in the Firefly 'verse.

2) The pushability of a rope is tricky in this case. At first, I was operating under the assumption that this is false, and a "pushable rope" is somehow responsible for the immense speed and artificial gravity which Serenity is able to create. Though this is, I believe, incorrect. First, we need to define what we mean by a rope. I'll chose as the working definition for this discussion "A rope is a length of flexible organic and/or synthetic material bound is such a way that it is substantially longer than it is wide." There are a number of places where rope is seen. See Jaynestown where rope is used to bundle the cargo hidden behind the bamboo forest and well as used to tie back the Shepard's unusual hair. Many other examples exist. As to the pushability, in no case has any of these "ropes" been successfully pushed. I spent many an hour pondering this question over cup after cup of Earl Grey tea only to come to the conclusion that:
1) If ropes were able to be pushed, surely they would be.
2) Our heros are living "pretty deep in the rough and tumble"*. If an effective means for pushing ropes exist, surely they would be doing it given its obvious implications for usefulness.
Thus, it can only be assumed, since we all know how useful it would be to have pushable ropes (allows the creation of such exotic devices such as fusion generators, non-dairy creamer, the ellusive quad-cycle, hyperspatial expressways, quasi-dimensional fractional statistics, etc.), we can only assume that they cannot, in truth, be pushable. Thus, BadgersHat Rule 2 must be true, merely by virtue that it would be too cool if it were false.

Bibliography
*Wash, in episode Heart of Gold

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Monday, July 25, 2005 6:35 AM

SIGMANUNKI

To be fair, I did solve the rope pushing problem with first freezing the rope with liquide nitrogen. Then it would be all kinds of pushable.

I would just say that the BDH don't push rope b/c they do not have access to liquide nitrogen. That, or they realize the awesome destructive power that would be unleashed and don't want to play with that kind of power.

To extend my thoughts. If we define M as Mal, A as Angry and F as force to be reckoned with, we get:

F=MA

or

Force to be reckoned with = Mal * Angry

There is probably an inverse square law in there as well.

If we define P as potential to be reckoned with and d as distance in meters from Mal, we would have:

P = (1/(d)^{2}) * F = (1/(d)^{2}) * M * A

or

Potential to be reckoned = (1/(distance to Mal Squared)) * Mal * Angry

ie Be very careful if you must pass by Mal * Angry near or within a meter; very dangerous.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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Monday, July 25, 2005 6:42 AM

GREEKTOOMEY

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
To be fair, I did solve the rope pushing problem with first freezing the rope with liquide nitrogen. Then it would be all kinds of pushable.

That's far more complicated a solution than is required. Just coil the rope, and it instantly becomes pushable.

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Monday, July 25, 2005 6:54 AM

GROUNDED

What did you expect when you called the thread 'Things I learned in physics class'...

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Monday, July 25, 2005 6:58 AM

FOURSKYS

Quote:
Originally posted by GreekToomey:

That's far more complicated a solution than is required. Just coil the rope, and it instantly becomes pushable.

Ah, but you see, now it's no longer the dimensions you require. A coil of rope is usually not "significantly longer than it is wide". It's often circular, and then a push deforms it. So it's shape isn't constant with respect to the amount of force applied (is a purely classical sense). So, I still think the liquid nitrogen is the way to go...

-------------------------------
"First the Pushable Ropes, and then.... The World!"

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Monday, July 25, 2005 7:14 AM

GREEKTOOMEY

Well, BadgersHat never said anything about requiring the rope to maintain any specific topology during the push...

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Monday, July 25, 2005 7:20 AM

FOURSKYS

Quote:
Originally posted by GreekToomey:
Well, BadgersHat never said anything about requiring the rope to maintain any specific topology during the push...

That may be true, but can it still function as a rope?

BTW, have we actual defined what the function of a rope in the Firefly 'verse is yet?

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Monday, July 25, 2005 7:23 AM

GREEKTOOMEY

It may not be able to function as a rope while being pushed, but it can certainly function as a rope after being pushed - which gives the coiling solution a significant advantage over the freezing solution.

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Monday, July 25, 2005 7:44 AM

FOURSKYS

Quote:

It may not be able to function as a rope while being pushed, but it can certainly function as a rope after being pushed - which gives the coiling solution a significant advantage over the freezing solution.

That's true, but there is something I just noticed in the initial post. Ropes are DEFINED as to be non-pushable.

Quote:

I want you somewhat loyal subjects of mine to discuss in detail why a rope cannot be pushed, and how said unpushability of the aforementioned rope affects the BDHs in the 'verse.

So, It seems that there are certainly different phases of "rope" (e.g., coiled, chilled) all of which have different properties. But we are interested in the Stand Temperature and Pressure (STP) phase of the rope, in which it is decidedly non-pushable.

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Monday, July 25, 2005 7:57 AM

THATWEIRDGIRL

Quote:
Originally posted by BadgersHat:
Okay, folks...Let's focus.

You're asking us to focus? Really Jefe, I thought you knew us better than that.

Quote:
I said "Let's discuss how F=MA and you can't push a rope" relate to Firefly. I did NOT invite a discussion on hyper string theory, dark matter, gravity curves, etc etc etc.

Either way, i am very excited to read men being smart...and women. Women can be smart too, I just won't be as excited about that.

Quote:
I want you somewhat loyal subjects of mine to discuss in detail why a rope cannot be pushed, and how said unpushability of the aforementioned rope affects the BDHs in the 'verse.

You are our president and I am in your harem. *salutes and shimmies* Yes sir!

Quote:
Anyone deviating from these instructions will be injected with concentrated Red Bull, and forced to watch 24 consecutive hours of PAX TV without commercials.

*shudder* Yes sir!

Can we cheat and use pulleys? I know I saw a pulley in the cargo bay. The BDHs probably use them all the time with their ropes.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

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Monday, July 25, 2005 11:58 AM

BERYLLIUM

A coiled rope might also be useful for interrogations. Good for scarin', you see.

Hurtin' is scarin'.

--
Beryllium
No power in the 'verse can me ...

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Monday, July 25, 2005 12:58 PM

SGTGUMP

"In this house we obey the rules of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

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Monday, July 25, 2005 1:31 PM

ICCLEDAMES

Good grief is this a serious topic?

Either way I now feel very stupid for not having a clue what any of this is on about.

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