Kaylee Video link by ManiacNumberOne

sorry kids, this has turned into a mistake.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2003 9:54 AM

Not to be icky but the Kaylee link ain't working.

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Tuesday, April 15, 2003 11:09 AM

You were right. I was stupid, and uploaded the River video instead and tried to link to the Kaylee video, that wasn't there. He he he. I have set the page to give the River video. In a few days, or whenever I get someone screaming that they have waited too long for the Kaylee video, then I will post it.

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Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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Tuesday, April 15, 2003 2:10 PM

Okay! It's download right now but I notice it's to the Dar Williams song "It's a War in There." Yeehaw! I LOVE (love love love) Dar Williams.

Okay. Shutting up now.

Dar Rules! Firefly forever!

Sarah

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Tuesday, April 15, 2003 2:23 PM

Got it. Watched it. Very cool.

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:23 PM

LORA

Did your Windows mediaplayer play it or did you get Realplayer to work? The mediaplayer keeps opening up automatically and then playing only the first few seconds of it. The Nathan interview on the same page didn't even launch the player. Realplayer normally works well for me, but is not cooperating tonight. Any common things I may have done to mess this up?

"Is there any way I'm gonna get out of this with honor and dignity?" Zoe, War Stories

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Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:26 PM

HOTFORKAYLEE

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
I uploaded the River video instead and tried to link to the Kaylee video, that wasn't there. He he he. I have set the page to give the River video. In a few days, or whenever I get someone screaming that they have waited too long for the Kaylee video, then I will post it.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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That River video was, in my opinion, awesome. Good work.
Okay, I'm screaming, wheres my Kaylee video? (scream, scream)
(scream)

Quote:
"Notice the waves, each moving in its own order, predictable, unchanging. But drop in a single stone and see how the pattern changes. Everything around it is altered."

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Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:37 PM

Lora, not sure, but it might work better if you RIGHT-CLICK on the link and save it to your hard drive first, then open the file with Media Player.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:42 PM

That was my first thought too, Lora. Right click save as. Though, I didn't have any trouble. It downloaded and opened real player right up.

Version issues? Codec issues? Shouldn't need a codec though, should it?

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Tuesday, April 15, 2003 5:39 PM

Quote:
Posted by Hotforkaylee:
That River video was, in my opinion, awesome.

Ditto. Who ever made that one...MAKE MORE PLEASE! Loved it.

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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

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Tuesday, April 15, 2003 6:36 PM

JRC

OK people. The web site is not responding as of 11:30 p.m. CT. Perhaps too many trying to log on?

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Tuesday, April 15, 2003 6:56 PM

I just tried, it appears to be working fine for me...
10:50 pm MT - 20 minutes later

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Tuesday, April 15, 2003 9:20 PM

Browncoats, I have uploaded the Kaylee video to the website I mentioned above. Sorry, but the River video previously posted there had to come down to make room. I only get 50 megs of space, so...
By the way, when I get enough of it finished, I will post the Serenity blueprint on this site too.

I have lots of great Firefly video's. Glad to have some fellow Browncoats to share them with. I am putting up a short Tim Minnear video too. I will switch it out whenever. I am not sure if the video's which I have are the same ones on the Fux site. I have heard about them here on FFF, but I refuse to visit Fux on the grounds that I hate them. Regardless, I have them all anyway, and I'll be happy to accomodate any requests for what you would like to download.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:50 PM

KIRTIL

Hey everyone :)

So i was on vacation (actually i still am, just couldnt stay away any longer - and yes i have my firefly episodes with me hehe never leave house without them) and apparently i missed a river video

Is there a way to get my hands on that vdeo? River is my favorite lady at Firefly and i would hate to miss an oportunity to see her once more.

Please post if you can help. Thanks in advance..

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Wednesday, April 16, 2003 8:32 PM

Kirtil, I can give it to you if you have messenger. E-mail me and send me your handle and I will email you mine back. Be sure to include your email address. Or if you can wait a little bit, I will just put it back up on the site.

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Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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Wednesday, April 16, 2003 11:35 PM

JRC

Hope this is not a totally stupid question,

but do the other links for the other movies work as well, or do we just wait for some future date to see these? Look very interesting!

Talk peace, but, carry a BIG stick.

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JRC:
Hope this is not a totally stupid question, but do the other links for the other movies work as well, or do we just wait for some future date to see these? Look very interesting!

Talk peace, but, carry a BIG stick.

no, not a stupid question. I thought I'd throw that list up there and get some feedback. I can post whatever. Only the movies in the box in the middle of the page are ready for you to upload... of the other video's in the big list, what would you like to see posted first?

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:07 AM

Um... does Nia know that you're hosting a copy of her River vid? And is there a reason why you don't include the fan vidder's info ont eh site

No offence, but unless these folks have given you permission to mirror their music vids, I'd suggest contacting them and asking, and in the meantime, taking them down... Content theft, even out of ignorance, is the quickest way to get folks hella mad at you...

If you've gotten permissionf rom all the fan vidders already, then of coruse just ignore this. But if you haven't, PLEASE take this to heart and contact them immediately.

--
Some take the high road. Some take the low road.
And some just go screaming down the highway, dropping flaming bits of wreckage.

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:20 AM

I have never heard of Nia. Is that who made that River vid? Great work there!! I found these vid's (all of them) posted on other websites or gotten through people who told me they were free public domain files. That aspect is mentioned on the very bottom of the web page in question. As to info on the vid's, that is all I had, and I posted what I knew. If I knew who to contact (or how) to ask permission to mirror vid's, that would be priority one (make no mistake.) As it is though, I haven't got that info. Have you?

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:31 AM

well, kelly's info is on the vid itself-- kellyss@kellystarsigns.com

And here's Nia's link which I got off TWoP:

http://www.trendeater.com/media/vids/

I would strongly suggest that you NOT post any vid you've downloaded unless you get the vidder's okay first--rather than waiting to see if they contact you. Just 'cause I've been on the recieving end of folks taking stuff from my site and loading it on theirs without asking me or even telling me, and it was a bad bad scene... Not to mention, music vids (liek fanfic) violate copyright, and so it is a MAJOR deal to most fan vidders, being able to control exactly how their vids are distributed. MAJOR deal.

--
Some take the high road. Some take the low road.
And some just go screaming down the highway, dropping flaming bits of wreckage.

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 9:31 AM

Thanks LJC, I contacted both parties. I hope they are the true fans I believe them to be, and allow me to post their great stuff.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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Thursday, April 17, 2003 9:38 AM

Erm, while I don't think being a 'true fan' has a jot to do with allowing their stuff to be mirror'd, but I hope it all works out for all involved...

--
Some take the high road. Some take the low road.
And some just go screaming down the highway, dropping flaming bits of wreckage.

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LJC:
Erm, while I don't think being a 'true fan' has a jot to do with allowing their stuff to be mirror'd, but I hope it all works out for all involved...B]

I would highly disagree with you. Why make those great video's if not to share them. They are offering them for free on their own sites, so why would they not allow them to be mirrored? There could be a few possible reasons. Note: I don't subscribe to any of these beliefs - they are just possibilities. Reason one is they are not true fans. I don't believe that though, or they probably wouldn't have made them, huh? Second possible reason is that they possibly have something going on the side (with which they make money), on their website, and those free video's bring in needed traffic. If that were the reason, I would fully understand. Third possible reason they might not want me to mirror those video's on another site, (and this one's the worst of all) they didn't actually make them, and don't want to get caught saying they did on multiple websites--cause I would surely reference them as the video's source. Fourth reason, they are greedy with the video's they made and with the access rights to them. They want to get credit instead of sharing the joy of Firefly fandom with others. If that were the reason, I would say they are not true fans.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
----------------------------------

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:30 AM

Quote:
Why make those great video's if not to share them. They are offering them for free on their own sites, so why would they not allow them to be mirrored?

Just ask folks FIRST before you mirror their work. It's common courtesy, and has nothing to do with being a "true" anything.

If you love the vidder's work so much, then provide a link to their sites--you just don't go around posting files that aren't yours to post, dong ma? It's not classy, it ain't right, and it sure as heck isn't neighbourly...

Sorry if this ticks you off, but that's just how I see it.

If someone had taken all the fan fiction I'd written and, without my name on it, without my knowledge, or without my consent, posted it on their own website, I'd be raising hell about it. And I don't think that means I'm any less of a "Firefly" fan than I was when I wrote it or uploaded it to my own website. And I don't for a second believe my being upset--were it my creative endeavours at stake here--makes me less of a 'true fan.'

And if anyone thinks different, then please, feel free to speak your piece.

--
Some take the high road. Some take the low road.
And some just go screaming down the highway, dropping flaming bits of wreckage.

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:31 AM

KIRTIL

Thanks Maniacnumberone for quick reply.

I will wait on you to post it on web page mate the download rate on my modem frustrates me even when i wait on webpages it would give me time to download with my cable connection when my vacation ends.

Keep flying
have a good sex
i'll be in my bunk

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:41 PM

Posted by LJC
No offence, but unless these folks have given you permission to mirror their music vids, I'd suggest contacting them and asking, and in the meantime, taking them down... Content theft, even out of ignorance, is the quickest way to get folks hella mad at you...

If you've gotten permissionf rom all the fan vidders already, then of coruse just ignore this. But if you haven't, PLEASE take this to heart and contact them immediately.

LJC, I have to say you are being a bit ridiculous. Nia violated copyright laws by "borrowing" the Firefly clips and the music track. On her site she states, "Disclaimeramo: I do not own the material used to create these fan videos, which are made neither for profit nor infringement."

She did not receive permission from Fox, or the band that created the music soundtrack. She does not give them credit in her videos. She could have created a logo for herself or put her name on the video, but she chose not to.

Maniac has done nothing wrong. Neither has Nia, in my opinion, because she is not trying to make money or claim the material as her own.

Lighten up, eh?

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:51 PM

SHINY

For those who are interested, the Kaylee music video can be found here:

http://kellystarsigns.com/firefly/index.html

Although I personally think that the River music video at the link LJC posted earlier is the best. "Girl and a gun" indeed!

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 3:06 PM

HOTFORKAYLEE

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Posted by LJC

LJC, I have to say you are being a bit ridiculous. Nia violated copywrited material by "borrowing" the Firefly clips and the music track. On her site she states, "Disclaimeramo: I do not own the material used to create these fan videos, which are made neither for profit nor infringement."

She did not receive permission from Fox, or the band that created the music. She does not give them credit in her videos. She could have created a logo for herself or put her name on the video, but she chose not to.

Maniac has done nothing wrong. Neither has Nia, in my opinion, because she is not trying to make money or claim the material as her own.

Lighten up, eh?

Succatash and Maniac, while I basically agree with what you are saying it is only right to ask permission. Granted, Nia can't come after you in any legal sense since she infringed on copyrights but I'm sure she would like at least credit for putting them together. The interviews though, that's a little stickier and fox probably won't like an open link to their copyrighted material. Don't get me wrong, I have downloaded all this off the site and appreciate it. Lot easier than Kazaa. Maybe you should at least give credit to everyone involved. As far as the videos they can't do anything, but do you really want to piss off other fans? It's a tough call, try to use your best judgement.

By the way, tommorrow night my mom and dad are watching Serenity with me.

Quote:
"The truth points to itself."
"What?"
"The truth points to itself."
"I do not understand."
"You will."

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:30 PM

I'm sure she would like at least credit for putting them together.

I am defending Maniac because LJC threatened him with words like "content theft" and told him to remove the videos if he didn't have permission.

It's almost comic the way LJC tells Maniac how to run his website, quoting copyright infrigement and demanding permission be given from the original author. What a fucking joke.

LJC should have simply provided Maniac with Nia's information. Maniac owns the website and he is very happy to give Nia credit for her wonderful work. He just didn't know; he needed information he didn't have. Accusing him of content theft is ridiculous and very rude. Maniac is SHARING, being nice, just like Nia.

Nia is obviously very good at video editing. It's very common and easy to embed a logo or URL into the video clip. Again, as I said before, Nia obviously chose not to give herself credit.

Videos of this type are meant to be passed around. Maniac is PAYING for bandwidth to allow the sharing of this file. People are downloading it for FREE. He's bending over backwards for the Browncoats, and I can't believe the way people are giving him shit. He does not deserve it.

LJC is full of shit. How can she bully Maniac around saying things like, "Not to mention, music vids (like fanfic) violate copyright."

NIA STOLE THE VIDEO AND THE MUSIC! IT'S JUST TO SHARE BECAUSE WE'RE FANS!

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:55 PM

Group hug!
....Wait, bad timing?

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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 6:06 PM

It's not bad timing, Kaythryn. Need some Wookie love?

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 6:11 PM

Hey, I'll take a kiss from Succatash over a hug any day!

back at you.

Oh! And I forgot to add- we have to be nice to ljc, she writes those Kaylee/Simon fics I love so much.

Okay, another, another thing I forgot to add- Anyone know why I can't post a new thread? (No need to comment on my normal technologicalistic problems, or creative spelling).
-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 6:34 PM

Okay, "burning zipper"? Are my eyes playing tricks on me? Humorous little buggers. I bet it's some super secret code name, right? Because I just don't see "burning zipper" coming from "Firefly" and I don't care how foreign you might be.

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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 6:42 PM

I hope Nia will post her thoughts.

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 7:05 PM

NIA

Nia appreciates both LJC contacting her about this and Maniac's understanding (and is flattered that he liked her vid enough to want to mirror it).

Nia doesn't appreciate her motives or emotions being speculated about.

I didn't *choose* not to give myself credit -- yes, I "stole" or, as is more appropriate, appropriated that music and video footage to make the vid, but I also used it to form new creative output. Ergo, I and most others who have created and enjoyed fanvids find credit a common courtesy. Watermarking is *not* by default the vidders' responsibility -- and, in fact, I work with very old software, and didn't at the time have the ability to make a clearly visible text panel. Nor are all videos are even "just to share"; some are simply for the enjoyment of a single fan or a small group of them. (As was originally the case with this vid -- the only place I *ever* linked to it was my journal. No FF forums, no vidding groups, nada. My first vid and very obviously so, I just kept it up on the off chance that other Firefly fen might find it interesting).
Like I said, I really appreciated Maniac and LJC getting in touch with me today, and I understand that not everyone is familiar with what I would consider not just conventions of vidding but common sense fan relations. But I thought attacking LJC like that was uncalled for, and I would rather be in the position of defending myself than have her be belittled for my choices.

Nia

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Thursday, April 17, 2003 9:08 PM

Nia, (I shouldn't be surprised to find you are a Firefly fan) I hope that you didn't think that I had prior knowledge that you were responsible for putting into an organized form those different media elements of others' prior creation. Make no mistake, I did not know. I didn't get them from you or your site, and I had never heard of you before today. Let it further be known that the first thing I did upon finding out your identity was to contact you requesting your acceptance of my proposal to occasionally host an appropriation on my site. I would submit that my Firefly tribute page did (and still does) state at the bottom, that all video's are presumed to be public domain files.
I would also say that it is an unfortunate error that, on your website, you did not state that you did not want those appropriation's to be used by others. If you post an appropriation on the web (anywhere, even on a password protected site) you should tell people what they can and cannot do with it. I am not saying this for my own sake, because I didn't get that River appropriation from your site, I got it from someone else's site. And I would be very very surprised to find out that your River appropriation was not posted on many other sites as well.
As per your wishes I will not host your appropriation... sorry to all who might have been expecting to get it from my site.

----------------------------------
Who's winning?
I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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Friday, April 18, 2003 5:32 AM

Okay, my last word on this whole entire thing...

Fan fiction, fan websites, and fannish music vids steal from our betters (Firefly). That's the nature of fandom.

However, the nature of fandom is also never to steal from your *peers.*

That's why you ask fellow fans if you can host their fannish works first--you don't just take it and put it up on your own website, or publish it in your own fanzines, or whatever. You ask politely, and include links back to folks sites, disclaimers, etc., most folks are more than happy to share. But if they ask you not to, you take that in stride too. It's just the way things are. But you always ask first.

I stand by my words that's just just common courtesy, and that I do not believe that expecting fans to respect one another makes me not "a true fan."

If you find a nifty keen story or website or vid? You don't download and re-upload it to your own server. You post the url and share it that way. It's just what you do. It's what makes a fannish community a *community.*

Call me names, swear at me, whatever. But I'm not gonna change my mind. And if you go back and re-read my posts, all I was saying is that I thought what Maniac had done was wrong--not his motives, which were great (wanting to share the fannish music vids he'd found). But that the way he'd gone about it. It's not about legalities, or copyright--it's about fans treating one another with care and respect.

I did make sure that Maniac knew the email addresses of both vidders, and I made sure the vidders knew their vids were being mirror'd on his site. That was the very first thing I did. I was not bossing anyone around, but if you choose to see it that way, I surely can't stop you.

--
Some take the high road. Some take the low road.
And some just go screaming down the highway, dropping flaming bits of wreckage.

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Friday, April 18, 2003 2:14 PM

Posted by LJC:
"However, the nature of fandom is also never to steal from your *peers.* ...all I was saying is that I thought what Maniac had done was wrong"

Look. Maniac DID NOT download the River video from Nia. He had never heard of Nia. The River video has been passed all around the Internet. There is no label on the video whatsoever.

He had no idea whose video it was, he was simply trying to be kind. It costs money to download big files and he was GIVING to the Browncoats, not stealing from them.

You sure are being bitchy about this. Your all-holy attitude is a joke. Maniac just needed information. He certainly didn't need your idle threats and accusations of thievery.

Maniac is down in the dumps now because he tried to do something nice and you shit on his head.

He deserves an apology.

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Friday, April 18, 2003 6:25 PM

> Look. Maniac DID NOT download the River video from Nia. He had never heard of Nia.

He has now, and unlike you, he's paying attention to her requests.

Sounds like you need to be the one apologizing, Succotash.

You love her work so much you want to share it with the world, and consequences don't matter. That's really the spirit of a true fan, right?

Your arrogant, selfish, inconsiderate behavior disgusts me. Actions speak louder than words, and your actions say you don't care one whit about other fans.

For anyone who wants to learn something about fannish etiquette, if you ever write your own fanfic, make your own art, make your own songvids, please read this link:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/elke_tanzer/148366.html

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Friday, April 18, 2003 7:21 PM

How am I being selfish? What do I get out of it?

I am PAYING for the bandwidth. It's a gift, I'm like Jesus, in a way. You remind me of Satan's little midget helper.

This whole thing started because Manaic got called a thief. He deserves an apology.

I am trying to make a point that taking yourself too seriously really isn't a good idea. Being hypocrytical isn't such a good idea, either.

I don't really want to pay for Gigs of transfers of these files. But I'm forking out money, keeping the Firefly spirit alive. It's my gift to all my Browncoat friends.

To the people who took copyrighted material and now say, "Don't share MY work with anyone unless you worship me first!" Well, I say, you can kiss my ass.

Nia, you allowed your anonymous River video to get passed around the world. Take responsibility. Get over yourself.

Vote on this issue. Or, download the music videos!
http://www.strangefinger.com/firefly.html

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Friday, April 18, 2003 7:28 PM

Now your comparing yourself to Jesus? How lovely. I'll ignore the personal insults because they're frankly not worth my time.

Your gift to fellow Browncoats is disrespect to a creative fellow fan, rudeness, and a failure to educate yourself on the legal issues, etiquette, and confrontational issues that just happened *yesterday* in this fandom. That's all lovely, too.

Save your money. Don't pay for distribution of fannish work that you didn't create without the permission of the creator(s). How complicated is that?

Honest, kindergarteners are taught May I, Please and Thank You. I find it amazing how many adults forget that.

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Friday, April 18, 2003 11:34 PM

elketanzer wrote:
"Your gift to fellow Browncoats is disrespect to a creative fellow fan, rudeness..."

I have given my heart and soul to this cause. I have submitted my own written Firefly stories to this website, and I have made Haken and others laugh out loud more times than you have had sex this year.

You are wrong about me. You are just being a dick, and so are your "friends."

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Friday, April 18, 2003 11:39 PM

My sex life is completely none of your business.

I'm glad you've made the mods on this site laugh, because you've also made other fanfiction authors, artists and vidders very upset and angry. You betrayed Nia, not the other way around. In fact, by not listening when people explain truth to you, you are betraying the fan community you believe yourself to be serving.

And now you've reduced yourself to namecalling when I've honestly been trying to explain to you what and why the repercussions of your actions today are and will be.

I'd like to think no one is hopeless, that everyone is capable of understanding these issues, but you are starting to make me question that idea.

Elke

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Friday, April 18, 2003 11:49 PM

I like the way you turn a phrase, Elk. You are correct (thankfully), that your sex life is none of my business.

Are you suggesting that there is a new law that will prevent fans from creating artwork like Nia's video?

Or are you suggesting that there is a new law which will prevent me from sharing this "fan artwork" with my friends?

Nia should be allowed to create her videos. She also should be given credit for them. I have never disputed that.

If Firefly fans want to make "art" because they like the show, that's really great. But that is all it is. It's great, and it helps grow the audience. That's what it is all about.

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Friday, April 18, 2003 11:54 PM

I'm going to crosspost from the other thread about this, because you still seem to be missing my point.

There are no new laws, but there are existing ones which are pertinent to this discussion. Writers, folks who draw and paint and sculp, vidders... anyone who creates fannish work based on shows or movies whose copyrights and trademarks belong to others... need to be aware of these issues.

*deep breath*

Fanfiction writers, artists and vidders walk a fine line by posting their work on the Internet. Their activities only survive because the copyright and trademark owners are not directly confronted by the infringements.

If the owner of a trademark (either TV show, movie, or music) does not defend their trademark, they can lose it. Defending a trademark means that the owner must actively prosecute anyone who infringes on it, otherwise they are allowing it to become a public property, and are yielding their trademarks, something modern megacorps never want to do.

Just yesterday a well-meaning fan presented a CD of songvids to Nate Fillion, against the expressly stated wishes of at least one of the vidders whose work was on the CD. The fan also intended to give the CD to Joss Whedon, but was stopped in time. This fan apparently never read the requests at the vidders' own websites, though some of the URLs were right in some of the vids. Both the fan and the community where the CDs were suggested and encouraged have since had all of the pertinent issues explained to them, and much hurt feelings were felt all around, both by the well meaning fan and the vidders.

Vidders can only keep from being noticed by lawyers if they can trust other fans to heed their wishes regarding distribution of their songvids.

Otherwise, the vidders risk losing their websites and worse. Cease and Desist orders are darned scary business.

I'm sure you understand how that feels now, even though your site's TOS action doesn't directly involve lawyers at this point.

Please understand that the fan community enjoys the work of many creative fans, who as individuals shoulder a lot of the risk of attracting lawyer-attention. In exchange, the fannish consumers are expected to behave like rational adults, and to understand the issues involved.

If you want to evangelize about your favorite show, that's great, but either do it using your own work, or the work of other fans *who have given you permission* to use theirs.

Do not assume that because a fan has created something and shared it with you that you can do anything you want with it, or the fandom as a whole, the entire community, is harmed.

More information about copyrights and trademarks in regard to fannish vidding, fanfiction and artwork is available... all anyone had to do was talk with any one of the fannish vidders, who were well aware of these issues before creating their vids.

Elke

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Friday, April 18, 2003 11:58 PM

I'm picturing a bunch of fat girls waving candy bars, singing "I got to be me."

The only fan artists who are liable are the ones who try to control the way their "borrowed" material is distributed.

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Saturday, April 19, 2003 12:03 AM

Again, I've not made any judgements about your weight or sex life. I'm trying damned hard to ignore your insults, but this is getting really annoying.

You seem to have no concept whatsoever of the pertinent laws or courtesy issues. Why is that? Are you reading anything at all that I've posted here, or do you just enjoy flying off the handle and insulting me?

No, wait, you don't need to answer that. Your previous posts and behavior illustrate quite clearly how much of a self-centered egotist you are, and how much you enjoy insulting people.

I've tried being rational. I've tried explaining the facts to you. You are choosing to ignore all of that and just go on living in your own little world where you can do anything you want and no one else's thoughts, feelings, or legal situation matter one little bit.

Like I said, such a great show doesn't deserve fans like you.

Elke

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Saturday, April 19, 2003 12:49 AM

Hey, you just copied this from the other thread. Are you running out of arguments?

Did you get permission to say the same thing twice?

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Saturday, April 19, 2003 1:01 AM