GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

serenity model

POSTED BY: KAYLEERULESALL
UPDATED: Thursday, September 1, 2005 02:15
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Monday, August 29, 2005 6:53 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


hey yall--just curious:

How much yall think it would take to build a life size model of Serenity?

i mean money, materials, time, everything.

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Monday, August 29, 2005 7:49 PM

AUROTER


we could just hijack the set and build a casing around it...

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Monday, August 29, 2005 7:57 PM

TAINTEDBLU


It would probably take a lot of money. Like, a LOT of money. And a lot of time.

If you're seriously interested in doing it, talk to a construction group and get an estimate. I'm sure you can find the specs online.

In fact, if you do it, I'll fly out and tour it.
- Dan

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 4:50 AM

KAYLEERULESALL


you know i had a thought; if i was richer than god, im sure i could get some real VTOL jet engines and put them on the ends of the pylons; then she might actually be able to lift off.
But i wonder if those things are even availiable to the public, and if they are, then i wonder just how much fuel i would ned to burn to simply get it up off the ground. WAAAAY too much money!

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 5:27 AM

CITIZEN


Well, you could just use standard jet engines in a custom vectored thrust rotable housing...

I mean the cheapness of the stuff you can pickup from russian millitary surplas...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:11 AM

DAWNSISTER


Can I be happy with a small model?

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 7:19 AM

FORRESTWOLF


Citizen, your comment really caught my attention (as well as your FTL/single-solar-system discussions, which are spot-on for science, IMHO).

Have you SEEN such a custom vectored thrust rotatable housing with a surplus commercial jet engine? Because I have, and that makes me wonder if we're thinking of the same one :)

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 8:40 AM

CITIZEN


Nope, But I know that the russian military is selling jets and jet parts, and I believe the later model Migs (flanker?) has vectored thrust.

(Although what serenity has isn't strictly vectored thrust...)

If you like to start assembling parts:
http://search.ebay.co.uk/Jet-Engines_W0QQfkrZ1QQfnuZ1QQfromZR8

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 8:49 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


More than a pair of diamonds the size of testicles?

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 8:56 AM

GUNRUNNER


You are partly correct Citizen the Su-35 Flanker does have vectored thrust but it is not a MiG.

Anyways I wouldn't use a Russian engine for this, they tend to break down quickly and have short life spans. The last thing you want is to have one engine go on take off.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 9:28 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

You are partly correct Citizen the Su-35 Flanker does have vectored thrust but it is not a MiG.

Getting my Russian planes mixed up, consider me properly corrected...

Quote:

Anyways I wouldn't use a Russian engine for this, they tend to break down quickly and have short life spans. The last thing you want is to have one engine go on take off.

Well they're cheap like the budgie (not like that over-priced american rubbish ). And if the engines had a chance of failing on take off, wouldn't it be more authentic...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 9:35 AM

KAYLEERULESALL


while authentic, i dont think it would be very preferrable. so anyway; im wondering; if we were to pool all of our money, maybe we could actually do something like this...

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:34 AM

GUNRUNNER


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
And if the engines had a chance of failing on take off, wouldn't it be more authentic...

But I would prefer to avoid an authentic death.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:35 AM

CITIZEN


Erm, one problem is where are we going to get the fusion core from?

But it may be doable, shouldn't be more than a few billion pounds at the end of the day. With enough money you could do anything, even build a flying serenity (tho most likely not a spaceworthy one).

*passes the collection plate*
Oh any structural/flight engineers among us?

Quote:

But I would prefer to avoid an authentic death.

Gah! No sense of adventure you people .

On an engine note, it would probably be best to use a couple of 747 units, mount them within a custom built chassis, with the variable exhaust nozzle attached.

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:24 AM

KAYLEERULESALL


obviously she wouldnt be space worthy. i just would love to live in Serenity; if i can swing it, ittle be my house. imagine; a firefly class transport smack in the middle of suburbia someplace..hehehe. and if it ever works, yall are more than welcome to come by and visit anytime.

as for flying...i dont think that would be a very good idea. she aint all that aerodynamic; probably depends on either really freakin forcefull engines or antrigravity assistance to help her fly around. but getting the whole thing off the ground for a few seconds or so would be a really sweet achievement, i think.

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:32 AM

CITIZEN


Oh so you want us to build you a house huh!

Serenity doesnt fly through arodynamics or like a normal aircraft using lift, she uses purely the thrust of the engines. I'm willing to bet two 747 engines could do it, but would eat alot of fuel, ya know...

Just remember, a bumble bee can't fly ...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:52 AM

GUNRUNNER


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Erm, one problem is where are we going to get the fusion core from?

But it may be doable, shouldn't be more than a few billion pounds at the end of the day. With enough money you could do anything, even build a flying serenity (tho most likely not a spaceworthy one).[qb]

We could always build an Orion Drive? Problem is where are we going to get the nuclear devices? We can always use a Pressurized Water Reactor for the power generation part… hay that reactor could power the engines too! The Air Force experimented with it. The Convair X-6 was going to be powered by a nuc reactor but it never left the drawing board neither did the “Low Altitude Nuclear Cruise Missile” (Thank God).


Quote:

Quote:

But I would prefer to avoid an authentic death.

Gah! No sense of adventure you people .

It’s just when I envisioned dieing at the hands of something built in Russia this wasn’t what I had in mind.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:19 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by GunRunner:
Problem is where are we going to get the nuclear devices?


Don't know, but don't ask Pres. Bush, cause he don't know either...

I think Fusion reactors are the way to go, I mean how hard can they be to make? Maybe anti-matter initiated fusion cause its all star-treky...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:23 PM

R1Z


Quote:

Erm, one problem is where are we going to get the fusion core from?


I'm curious, what leads you to believe Serenity has a fusion core?

The only clues to propulsion I recall are when Wash says "We're down to the wire on fuel cells, if we run hot, we might not even make it."

And then, later, "We should have just enough left in us to hit a fuel station. We'll need to do some patching up. I hope we got paid today?"

And on Persephone, Mal says, "If we don't get paid for this cargo, we don't have enough to fuel the ship, let alone keep her in repair."

and later, "if you depend on luck, you end up on the drift, no fuel, no prospects, begging for Alliance make-work, and towed out to the scrap belt. That ain't us, not ever."

I would think that, with a fusion core, refuelling would be more like an annual thing.

And the "200 in latinum" they get for the Alliance foodstuffs wouldn't buy much in the way of fusion core assemblies.

Any thoughts, anyone?



To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:29 PM

GUNRUNNER


In the DVD extras one of the Graphics Artists says it’s a Fusion Engine.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:33 PM

CALONRIEL


Quote:

Originally posted by R1Z:
Quote:

Erm, one problem is where are we going to get the fusion core from?


I'm curious, what leads you to believe Serenity has a fusion core?

The only clues to propulsion I recall are when Wash says "We're down to the wire on fuel cells, if we run hot, we might not even make it."

And then, later, "We should have just enough left in us to hit a fuel station. We'll need to do some patching up. I hope we got paid today?"

And on Persephone, Mal says, "If we don't get paid for this cargo, we don't have enough to fuel the ship, let alone keep her in repair."

and later, "if you depend on luck, you end up on the drift, no fuel, no prospects, begging for Alliance make-work, and towed out to the scrap belt. That ain't us, not ever."

I would think that, with a fusion core, refuelling would be more like an annual thing.

And the "200 in latinum" they get for the Alliance foodstuffs wouldn't buy much in the way of fusion core assemblies.

Any thoughts, anyone?



To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein



You say "The only clues to propulsion I recall are . . . ", but don't forget River's comments in "The Train Job" when she's describing the Firefly-class ship that she realizes she's aboard:

"Mid-bulk transport, standard radion accelerator core . . . "

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:34 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


well, there is no direct evidence in the show states its a fusion core(i think, but it makes the most sense. you know the parts where to do a hard burn and Serenity's tail lights up and all that glowing gas like stuff shoots out the back? well, thats what scientists today refer to as a nuclear burst propellant. a nuclear reaction(read explosion) is created and channeled through an incredibly strong rotating magnetic field, thus creating an insane amount of thrust in an almost instantainous amount of time.

now, u could use nuclear fission to do this, but in that case all that glowing gas stuff would be horribly lethal, what with all the radiation and such. with fusion, theres no harmful radiation or waste to speak of. it just makes more sense that its fusion, cuz if it werent the whole system would probably be dead by now.

As for the fuel issue, maybe the fact that its fusion and therefore a very complicated process plays a role. maybe the feul cells they talk about are used to initiate a fusion reaction and not actually the materials they fuse. for example:
hydrogen feul cells create a large amount of electrical energy. this energy is used to create the magnetic field and to set off the secondary detonators, which then somehow initiate the fusionable material(most likely Hydrogen)into a nuclear fusion reaction, which is then channeled down the magnetic field.
So, they probably wont run out of pure hydrogen for a few years time, but the feul cells may run out after say, five 'hard burns' or so.


------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:39 PM

CITIZEN


In the tenth crew-member documentary the main drive is refered to operate using fusion. The Serenity appears to have what could be a fusion torus between the main engine and the crewdome.
Fusion would be the logical choice for an interplanetary power source also.
Noting that there is what appears to be solar panels, but we know these can't supply the ship with power from 'out of gas'.

The ship also has more conventional thrusters which would require fuel, and we don't know serenitys power requirements, could be the available fusion reaction mass is used comparativly quickly producing the required power.

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:44 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by KayleeIsAll:
As for the fuel issue, maybe the fact that its fusion and therefore a very complicated process plays a role. maybe the feul cells they talk about are used to initiate a fusion reaction and not actually the materials they fuse. for example:
hydrogen feul cells create a large amount of electrical energy. this energy is used to create the magnetic field and to set off the secondary detonators, which then somehow initiate the fusionable material(most likely Hydrogen)into a nuclear fusion reaction, which is then channeled down the magnetic field.
So, they probably wont run out of pure hydrogen for a few years time, but the feul cells may run out after say, five 'hard burns' or so.


Ohh, I like that! Antimatter-initiated fusion perhaps? Serenity certainly isn't big enough to carry a particle accelerator, so she'd have to carry rather than produce antimatter.

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:13 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


eh, i dont really know about the antimatter. that would require a hell of a lot of power to generate magnetic feilds capable of sustained antimatter containment. anyway, an antimatter explosion makes a fusion explosion look like a mexican jumping bean. even just one atom of antihydrogen reacting with one atom of hydrogen would produce like 5000 times the force of 1000 pounds of hydrogen in fusion. if they had antimatter, they might as well just use it to propell the ship and forget about fusion alltogether. not to mention that producing antimatter is so damn expensive that theres just no way you could make an antimatter device of any kind standard on 40,000 ships. its just not economical. plus, i remember Joss saying somewhere that he didnt want to bring antimatter into firefly, because it was too trekkie.

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:17 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Serenity appears to have what could be a fusion torus between the main engine and the crewdome.



What exactly is a fusion torus? ive wondered what that spinning ring on Serenity is for, and this idea intregues me.

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:22 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


oh, wait, are you refering to a Tokamak?


------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:23 PM

CITIZEN


I didn't know that about joss, but a magneticfield to contain antimatter is no more expensive than one to contain a fusion reaction.
Antimatter-initiated fusion is in no way Star-Treky tho ...
Heres a few links on Antimatter initiated fusion:
http://www.engr.psu.edu/antimatter/Papers/web_LiH_final.pdf
http://www.engr.psu.edu/antimatter/Papers/AIMStar_99.pdf
http://fti.neep.wisc.edu/neep602/SPRING00/TERMPAPERS/mcmahon.pdf

Basically the antimatter is used to kick start a fusion reaction, if antimatter was injected into the fusion torus this could give a kick start to the whole high-speed burn thing...
That would also explain how you could run out of fuel.

Although its expensive to produce antimatter, its likely gonna be cheaper in 500 years. That and the manufacture would be done planet side...

I'm afraid I can't be much more coherent than that, its kind of late here...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:29 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


thats all well and good, but an eaiser and simpler way to initate fusion would be with a Takomak. the deuterium and trinium gas is heated to over 100 million degrees by microwaves, and at that temperature the fusion reaction begins. after the reaction begins, you no longer need the microwaves as the reaction is self sustaining. a hydrogen feul cell or two should have enough charge to jump start the fusion in this way, and then you will have power enough to run for several years. then, to initiate a burn, you just trigger the microwaves again, using the feul cells, and speed up the reaction so that u produce alot more thrust in a short time. pretty simple, really.

BTW, where are you?

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:42 PM

CITIZEN


Are you sure its easier and simpler? I mean the AIM engine is one planned to actually go into space is all. I'm prepared to conceed the point tho, if for no other reason than Joss's comments . Have to say though the tokamak fits, there seems to be a torus as I said and that works for Tokamak as well as anything else.

A further thought occures tho. Couldn't you just place reaction mass in contact with fusion plasma and eject it?

And I'm in Britain, just south of london in fact.

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:47 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


im sure bopth descriptions would wiork; just in my opinion the takomak better fits joss' vison of the 'verse. anyhow, about the ejecting mass thing: sure u could do it, but then your supply of fusionable material might only last 2 years instead of 10. plus, by introducing a new, non-fusioning(is there a real word for that?) mass into a plasma stream thats already in process of fusion, the whloe thing would cool down drastically, and probably stop the fusion process altogether.

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:56 PM

CITIZEN


yeah, hadn't thought of that, my idea came from a half read paragraph from the Aliens Technical Manual where reaction mass was just brought into contact with fusion plasma for sub-light propulsion.
As a side-note the FTL drive from Aliens is one of the most believable I've come across, it converts the entire ship into tachyons at which point it can't travel slower than LS. Okay the whole converting to tachyons thing is a little far fetched but you don't have to ignore physics to do it .

As far as antimatter goes, if Joss don't want it in his verse then its out the window...
*throws antimatter out the window*
Oh, wait maybe I shouldn't of done that...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:03 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


BOOM

anyway, i agree. i just thought of something else though. in out of gas, mal says something to the effect of, "Engine dont turn, we aint got no power." now, one of the things nessisary to sustain fusion is keeping the plasma temperature over 100 million degrees. if the plasma were to touch the wall of its containment vessel, that would cool it off and fusion would stop. perhaps the turning torus on Serenity is infact creating a rotating magnetic field, which might just be strong enough to keep that plasma away from the walls. therefore: if the EM field dont turn, then the plasma will touch the walls, cool down, and fusion will stop, so the power flow will stop. ergo, engine dont turn, we aint got no power.

also, im in Texas, in case you were wondering.

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:15 PM

CITIZEN


uhuh, but wouldn't that also kinda melt the torus a bit?
But your right the turning is definatly a prerequisite for the engine to operate.

The thing I think might be a fusion torus actually rotates underneath the rear 'prongs' that extende back from the crew dome. Thing is theres Rivers words, mentioned elsewhere here I think, standard radion accelerator core...
Off hand I'm not sure what a Radion could be (beyond maybe a mangeling of radioactive?) or how one would accelerate such a thing.

From a purely plot view the spinning is there to get away from the purely unmechanical star-trek nature I imagine... But that boring...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:23 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


yeah, twould do some melting, but not all that much; it would cool off really damn fast. also, they probably made it from heat resistant materials, like the outer hull that reenters the atmosphere. still, alot of damage could be done; i imagine they have some kind of emergency systems to somehow prevent that.

Radion is an element; maybe they use it just after the fusion burst that accellerates the ship to optimize thrust or some such thing. therefore, radion accelerator core. but thats just a guess. Also, perhaps they just call it that, like a product name.

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:45 PM

CITIZEN


Still, I thought the reason that a magnetic field was used was because there wasn't a heat resistant material that could withstand the plasma temperatures. Although its very possible, in fact highly likely, that the moment that the engine stopped spinning it would automatically eject the fusion plasma.
In fact it would make sense that the reactor would be designed in such a way to make it impossible for the plasma to not be ejected if the engine stopped spinning.

ahh, knew I heard it somewhere...
So this would be Radion:
http://chemlab.pc.maricopa.edu/periodic/Ra.html

Seems like a strange element to use though.
But as you said, it could just be a product name.
Its got a fairly high atomic wieght, so it would be quite dense, so would it be good as a reaction mass?

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:51 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


yeah, the mag field helps it to not eat thru the metal and to maintain the plasma temp. but there is material that can resist the heat for a while. it will eventually fail, but it could withstand some direct contact, at least untill the emergency system could kick in. anyway, u still wouldnt want to operate without the magnetic field; would be a very bad situation. perhaps thats what he meant in the pilot when Wash says the reaver ship is operating without containment.

i personally like the product name, as the element radion is really huge, and seems like fusing it would be an incredibly inefficient thing to do.

and furthermore, weve explained why the torus rotates, but why does the engine assembly in the engine room turn?

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:04 PM

CITIZEN


As for the Reavers I'd always assumed that the containment thing was to do with radiation, which isn't a problem with fusion, but maybe it is with the drive system?
Minor spoiler (and more of an aside to the discussion):

Select to view spoiler:


The movie seems to support this view, as Serenity operates without core containment for a short period of time, but just enough to prevent it from 'incinerating' the crew.



As for radion I was thinking maybe something used as reaction mass for the main engine, rather than for the fusion reaction.

As for the internal assembly rotating:
If you notice when they go for a burn it begins rotating much faster. Could it be part of some sort of reaction chamber for the main drive?
In which case it would spin as it is part of the main drive chamber that would be spinning for the magnetic field?

If by Radion Accelerator Core it means radion is accelerated as part of the reaction mass, could radion and fusion plasma be mixed in the reaction chamber away from the fusion torus, prior to being 'shot' out the back?

Couldn't this also explain any radioactive element to the reaction also? I would have thought a reaction like that could cause highly energetic particles to be released.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:06 PM

GUNRUNNER


Quote:

Originally posted by KayleeRulesAll:
and furthermore, weve explained why the torus rotates, but why does the engine assembly in the engine room turn?

I think it rotates with the Torus otherwise any connections between the engine assembly and the tours would need to rotate and those links are potential weak points in the system.

I also agree that the engine would eject any plasma in the case of power failure. Its like a Liquid Metal Reactor, if the coolant (Liquid Metal) stops flowing in the pipes it solidifies which results in a uncontrollable reaction forcing the reactor to be SCRAMed and nearly the entire reactor will need to be replaced. This has happened to some of the Russian Alfa class submarines that were equipped with this type of reactor. In the case of Serenity if the plasma stops being contained it burns through the casing runing the system and possably resulting in loss of vessel.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:13 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


both some really good points, except that whenever serenity is running, the assembly is rotating, not just when they do a burn.

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:16 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


perhaps adding Radion makes the thrust more powerful when added to the excess plasma. by adding radion to superheated plasma, the radion would most likely enter into fission. the only problem with that is it would irradiate space like crazy, but maybe thats y they use radion. perhaps when radion enters fission, its radioactive products fuse together to create something that aint radioactive.

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:18 PM

GUNRUNNER


They probably keep the plasma flowing for power generation, hence the constant spinning.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:18 PM

CITIZEN


Thats true, but it does spin faster during a burn...
Maybe as GunRunner says it comprises a complete unit with the fusion torus?
In which case It would have to spin whenever the torus spins.

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:23 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


yes, that makes sense, but why?

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:23 PM

CITIZEN


Thats a good point, again with the Aliens technical manual military use different reaction masses to civilian ones because they don't have as great a em/ir signicture. Of course you wouldn't have to worry about irradiating space too much, I mean even a system full of ships kicking out radiation (and many of the ships portrayed seem to have different propulsion schemes) wouldn't be as bad as one star, or the background cosmic radiation, would they?

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:23 PM

R1Z


Ain't Google grand:

"This tiny horn speaker measures only 11 inches tall, and the bell is 3 1/2 inches in diameter. The only markings that would give a clue to origin is the word "Radion" and the word "Ace" inside the outline of a spade (as in ace of spades) engraved in the neck of the hard rubber horn.
"Radion" was a trademark of the American Hard Rubber Company of New York, NY., however, it is not clear whether this company marketed the complete speaker, or sold just the horn to someone else."

Radion must be some form of synthetic shielding.


Quote:

I also agree that the engine would eject any plasma in the case of power failure. Its like a Liquid Metal Reactor, if the coolant (Liquid Metal) stops flowing in the pipes it solidifies which results in a uncontrollable reaction forcing the reactor to be SCRAMed and nearly the entire reactor will need to be replaced. This has happened to some of the Russian Alfa class submarines that were equipped with this type of reactor. In the case of Serenity if the plasma stops being contained it burns through the casing runing the system and possably resulting in loss of vessel.


If you want to lay awake nights, read We Almost Lost Detroit by John G. Fuller, Readers Digest Press, 1975. The Russians have nothing on us (except maybe Chernobyl) when it comes to reactor accidents.

AND

Two of the doodads spinning around on the visible part of the engine are the fables CATALYZERS (port and starboard). What is the catalyst and what is being catalyzed?

And let's not forget that Serenity has more'n a few ceramic parts in her.


To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:27 PM

CITIZEN


Well if the spin is to generate a rotating magnetic field the drive chamber is going to need to do the same thing, to prevent drive plasma making contact with the walls of the chamber, and to channel plasma and reaction mass into and out of the chamber?

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:31 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


only during hard burn. when not hard burning, then there should be no plasma in the assembly. right?

also, if we are to really discuss this, shouldnt we continue it on AIM? if u have it, my screename is kmeluvsrks. it would be more efficent that way i think.
------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:31 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by R1Z:
Two of the doodads spinning around on the visible part of the engine are the fables CATALYZERS (port and starboard). What is the catalyst and what is being catalyzed?


A catalyst (Greek: καταλύτης) is also a substance that accelerates the rate of a chemical reaction, at some temperature, but without itself being transformed or consumed by the reaction (see also catalysis). A catalyst participates in the reaction but is neither a chemical reactant nor a chemical product.

So they may only be components that facillitate or accelerates the reaction that goes on within the reaction chamber.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:35 PM

KAYLEERULESALL


so, radion could be the catalyst.

------------------------------------------------
When the stars shine bright through the engine's trail and the dust of another world drops behind; When my ship is free of the open sky, its a damn good day to my way of mind; Theres a barren planet you never can leave, theres a rocky valley where we lost a war; Theres a cross worn 'round a soldier's neck, theres a man's faith died on Serenity's floor, but i stood my ground and ill fight once more; Its the last oath that i ever swore

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