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Originally posted by sagrilarus:
At the risk of having a hit called out on me, I'll keep the details of my opinions quiet. But I was very disappointed with the movie. With any luck, I am the only one. No one else here seems to be expressing that feeling. Just thought I'd toss it out and see if I'm alone or not.

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Originally posted by sagrilarus:
Sorry, I'm not going to spend another nine dollars on it.

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It wasn't the death of anybody that bothered me. Frankly, given the script, they should have been down to two SURVIVING at the end of the film. Not sure how Mal survives after being run through with a sword, especially after walking around and fighting for about 20 minutes afterwards. Zoe deserved to be dead, River absolutely should not have survived, the others holding the line pretty much had to survive on awesome-plot-power and deadly-hero-guns -- not a typical crutch for Whedon.

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I was far more effected by very contrived dialogue (Jayne uses the phrase "in earnest" for godsake), and a real muddying up of the characters. I made the mistake of watching Our Mrs Reynolds at home before heading to the theater, which just made the contrast that much more stark.

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Originally posted by sagrilarus:
Sorry, I'm not going to spend another nine dollars on it.

Select to view spoiler:

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It wasn't the death of anybody that bothered me. Frankly, given the script, they should have been down to two SURVIVING at the end of the film. Not sure how Mal survives after being run through with a sword, especially after walking around and fighting for about 20 minutes afterwards. Zoe deserved to be dead, River absolutely should not have survived, the others holding the line pretty much had to survive on awesome-plot-power and deadly-hero-guns -- not a typical crutch for Whedon.

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I was far more effected by very contrived dialogue (Jayne uses the phrase "in earnest" for godsake), and a real muddying up of the characters. I made the mistake of watching Our Mrs Reynolds at home before heading to the theater, which just made the contrast that much more stark.

Sag.

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Suspension of disbelief. In "Out of Gas" Mal had been shot and he was suffocating and freezing to death and yet he survived. In "War Stories" Wash and Mal were able to get back into action only minutes after getting tortured by Niska, Mal's heart even stopped and yet he was able to fight after that.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:What does the high school english lesson serve? Is Sag s'posed to feel dumb, and realize that he actually enjoyed Serenity? I've read this line of reasoning before, and it really seems absurd in context. For me, Firefly came to the edge of believability plenty of times, but it always came back at the last moment. Serenity, not so much.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=13444

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Suspension of disbelief. In "Out of Gas" Mal had been shot and he was suffocating and freezing to death and yet he survived. In "War Stories" Wash and Mal were able to get back into action only minutes after getting tortured by Niska, Mal's heart even stopped and yet he was able to fight after that.

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
SAGRILARUS, I wasn't responding to your complaints about the characters, which are pretty vague, except for the example about Kaylee and the vibrator. I was responding about your inability to suspend disbelief while watching the movie.

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Originally posted by sagrilarus:
I suspended my disbelief just fine. I have no concerns with the plot. The characters have been irreversibly changed. Watch the episodes again -- the characters have MAGNIFICENT definition. By the end of the pilot you really have an insight into who they are; you want to know them better. They are clear, concise. They have mysterious aspects, but they are consistent. The film just ignored all that. Pretty vague? I sure am. I have no idea how to describe the fact that the same actors seemed to be playing different people, with different motivations and actions.
Vague is an excellent choice of terms. In the series, the characters weren't vague. Now they are. I have no idea what they would be like if a sequel were to be made. I don't know these people anymore. They are undefinable.

Sag.

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Originally posted by SlowSmurf:
The movie WAS different, why can't people grasp that? Liberties were taken when he chose to. Mal/Simon being the most obviously changed.

BASED ON, not a direct continuation.

For example, there's no way in hell Mal from the show would resort to telling the doctor to basically go to hell as he does at the start of Serenity. Once he uttered the words(on the series), "You're on my crew", that remains. I highly doubt Mal would ever take that back except by the other person choosing to leave or Mal himself killing said person. Jayne flatout betrays him on the series, he remains crew.

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Originally posted by sagrilarus:

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
SAGRILARUS, I wasn't responding to your complaints about the characters, which are pretty vague, except for the example about Kaylee and the vibrator. I was responding about your inability to suspend disbelief while watching the movie.

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I suspended my disbelief just fine. I have no concerns with the plot. The characters have been irreversibly changed. Watch the episodes again -- the characters have MAGNIFICENT definition. By the end of the pilot you really have an insight into who they are; you want to know them better. They are clear, concise. They have mysterious aspects, but they are consistent. The film just ignored all that. Pretty vague? I sure am. I have no idea how to describe the fact that the same actors seemed to be playing different people, with different motivations and actions.
Vague is an excellent choice of terms. In the series, the characters weren't vague. Now they are. I have no idea what they would be like if a sequel were to be made. I don't know these people anymore. They are undefinable.

Sag.

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:

Your comments are still pretty vague; you still haven’t given any specific examples. Yes, Mal was darker in the movie and he was more concerned with surviving than protecting the feelings of the crew.

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:

Zoe was the same, following orders even if it conflicted with her personal beliefs.

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:

Jayne was the same, more concerned with survival than anything else.

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:

Kaylee was the same, although less spunky that she used to be.

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:

Simon was a bit more aggressive but otherwise unchanged, very protective of River just like in the show.

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:

River, she’s probably the character that changed the most, she’s much more lucid and less insane.

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:

Unfortunately, Wash, Book, and Inara really didn’t get enough scenes for me to get a reading of their characters, and Inara did seem kind of out of place.

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Mal was most certainly different. Just ask yourself, if Simon would have hit Mal in the series, would Mal have just taken it, or would he have fought back? Truth is, Simon would have gotten somewhat bruised in series Mal.

I'd also like to know what your definition of darker is. Mal was a coward. Mal was angry. That is pretty much it for his emotional range for the movie.

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Not really. If Zoe was the same she would've backed up Mal with his decision to not take on the extra man on the Mule. It wasn't worth the risk when absolute death is involved. Mal had already done his best to save the man when he told them all to get into the vault. Zoe would've known this in the series. But in the movie, she questioned his decision/morality/etc for doing it.

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How? When they were planning on going into Reaver territory Jayne didn't protest. But, in the series, just have a Reaver ship pass by scared him enough to start to shake. Plus, he was made far more stupid in the movie than the show.

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LOL. Simon was completely changed. He went from the bumbling fool, remember Jaynes Town when he played the part of the buyer and completely screwed it up. How about whenever he attempted to talk to Kaylee?

But in the movie he went to, I'm so smooth and great under pressure, that I can infltrate one of the most secure military falcilities in the 'verse and pull off an rescue.

Bullshit.

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Wash and Book were both pretty much footnotes. That pissed me off.

But Inara, entering a fight between Mal and The Operative?!?! Whenever there was a fight in the series, she always just got out of the way (and pulled Kaylee out of the way with her ie the train job). Not to mention, where the hell did she get that flash thingy and know when to use it. Can we say, out of character/not realistic.

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Originally posted by sagrilarus:
At the risk of having a hit called out on me, I'll keep the details of my opinions quiet. But I was very disappointed with the movie. With any luck, I am the only one. No one else here seems to be expressing that feeling. Just thought I'd toss it out and see if I'm alone or not.

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:

Mal did put River’s life at risk and he knows how protective of River Simon is, plus he did threaten to kill Simon. By dark I mean morbid and detached. Mal was angry a lot but how was he a coward?

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:

She questioned Mal’s choice to leave Simon and River behind although it wasn’t as direct as the way she questioned Mal in the movie. Plus she probably feels more responsible for the man’s death considering how she was the one who disarmed him.

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:

Jayne does have some decency; look at the end of “Jaynestown,” if given the choice he probably would have sacrificed himself to save that kid’s life and he probably does still have some lingering fear of Mal from the Ariel incident. How did they make Jayne dumber? There was only one Jayne is stupid joke in the movie.

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:

Simon isn’t a bumbling fool when he has to help River.

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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:

Inara trained Mal to fence, she knows how to fight. Plus she spent a year with Mal; she must have learned something from him, like how to fight dirty.

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Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Have you seen the movie? He kept running and running and running. That is until Book got killed. That was pretty much at the end.

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He backed down from Simon. I'll say that again. HE BACKED DOWN FROM SIMON.

How much more do you need it spelled out for you?

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There's a difference between, directly questioning him, which is out of character for her.

And you might want to think about this. Here's my opinion but whatever you decide I'll back you.

The fomer is the movie, the latter the series. They are distinctly different.

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Funny you should mention Jaynestown. I just watched it literally, 4 hrs ago.

So, you're conjecture about him sacrificing himself is no, he wouldn't be willing to do that. There is a difference between being sad or fustrated with something that happened and willing to do something that drastic to change it. You are seeing a kindness that doesn't exist in him.

You do realize that from the same ep you mention, it gets known that he tossed his own partner out of a hovercraft at 20-30 feet out for the sake of profit, right?

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Jayne also wouldn't be scared of any reprocussions that long after that incident. 1) It is at least questionable to say that he even thinks about it anymore 2) Everyone already knows what he did; at least Simon, River and Mal knows. It'd be hard to keep something like that a secret.

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And how would him objecting to something that Mal proposed be oooo so scary for him? Mal might kill him if he said anything.

Mal: What happens when the money is good enough?
Jayne: Well, that'll be an interesting day.

That ring a bell?

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About him being stupid. Next time you see it, just listen to his dialog. There is a difference between making fun of someone that is stupid and being stupid. Of course for the former to hold weight the latter must be true. But, just because the latter is true, doesn't make the former a necessity.

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Actually he is. Remember when he jumped over the railing in Serenity (ep not movie) while the fed was hauling her out? Rather hasty and screwed it up. If Mal hadn't come along there would've been a rather nasty situation.

What about when he tried to help River in Objects in Space?

He is a bumbling fool when he has to help River. Just because he's willing to put himself in danger doesn't change this.

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You are making the leap from trained to fence to knowing how to fight which is completely unjustified.

Just because someone is trained to use a blade in principle, does not mean that you were trained to use it in combat. Ask anyone that's taken a martial arts course. If you are going into a tournament, you are pulled aside for "extra" training. You can read that last part as, ok, we've taught you how to do things. Now let us teach you how to use them.

The two are completely different.

Also, she may have spent a year with Mal. But, there is no indication nor evidence that indicates that level of interaction. In fact, all evidence indicates that Mal did his best to keep Inara out of that world. ie Remember when they stole that gun and couldn't sell it (too hot). Inara said that she could "make some calls" and Mal flatly refused. He didn't want her involved in "that" world.

When it comes down to it, you are using conjecture, exceptions to the rule, and your own feelings thrust upon the movie as support in your arguments. Sorry man, that just doesn't hold water.

In all seriousness, I have no idea where you are coming up with this stuff. I highly recommend you watch the series again.

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Originally posted by minime:
Maybe I need to see it a few more times to truly appreciate it, but it just feels like something that was very precious and important to me is... lost.

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Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
But Inara, entering a fight between Mal and The Operative?!?! Whenever there was a fight in the series, she always just got out of the way (and pulled Kaylee out of the way with her ie the train job). Not to mention, where the hell did she get that flash thingy and know when to use it. Can we say, out of character/not realistic.

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Originally posted by sagrilarus:
At the risk of having a hit called out on me, I'll keep the details of my opinions quiet. But I was very disappointed with the movie. With any luck, I am the only one. No one else here seems to be expressing that feeling. Just thought I'd toss it out and see if I'm alone or not.

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Originally posted by Howard:
The Studios are like the Alliance. There is a policy across all studios against ideas and opinions in big films this is acheived by dumbing down character exposition. I shall wait for the DVD in hope that some of the character exposition especially relating to Inara that was in the early cuts will be put back into the movie.

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