are fans boycotting the movie? (major spoilers) by XanderHarris

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

are fans boycotting the movie? (major spoilers)

POSTED BY: XANDERHARRIS
UPDATED: Thursday, October 20, 2005 06:27
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 16683
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Friday, October 7, 2005 12:50 PM

XANDERHARRIS

best.post.ever.

thanks stakethelurk

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Friday, October 7, 2005 12:54 PM

QUASARWINDS

Joss posted this on the OB

Post subject: Worst. Movie. Ever.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

was probably "Summer Holiday" with Mickey Rooney. Can you believe that kid was the biggest star in the world? Funny world.

Meanwhile, I'm just rounding out the weekend with a little praise for my dear peeps. Considering everything we've had to overcome, this is an extraordinary achievment. And you guys have been in the front lines. I lurk, I know all. So thanks. Some of you might know that this flick means more than a little to me.

Yes, the second weekend will tell all, as we've always known. I'm not here to push you guys -- you push yourselves way harder than I could anyway. I'm just trying to figure out how to get the message out to the guys that aren't you, that don't know any of you, and that don't run into someone who saw the film. I'll be hounding the extremely patient Uni execs on that very subject. Like the lady said, "People have to know".

It's not that there HAS to be a sequel. It's just that I've got so many IDEAS...

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Friday, October 7, 2005 1:42 PM

JADEHAND

Quote:
2) Were there not whispers before the BDM came out that certain of the cast were more reluctant to return, and that maybe Alan Tudyk actually asked for an out? Anyone asked Joss this?

I've heard/read that Alan suggested the death.

Also, that Joss said something like "If it makes people cry when they see it, I most likely cried when I wrote it."

And again: "This was season two condensed to 2 hours." Would it have been less upsetting if it happened on TV? Would it have been the "last episode I'll ever watch."?
It was part of the story. It got told in a movie instead of a "season 2". I hope it's not the end of the story. I want to see more. And Alan and Ron will be there when it's told.

Mal: "You did the right thing."
Book: "Coming from you, that means......almost nothing."

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Friday, October 7, 2005 2:06 PM

FIREFLYGAL

Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
Quote:
Originally posted by fireflyfan278:
I'm not "happy to leave the verse".

But, hey, if you want to boycott it, that's your right. But-and I say this not to be mean, but to be true-don't ever sit around and say "they never put anything good on TV anymore, and all the movies they release are crap," because you lost that right. Studios put out junk because people don't want to feel and don't want to think, they just want a bunch of happy zombies at the theater. You can be one if you choose; I choose not to be--Serenity will soar for me again this weekend (my 4th time).

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

Last I checked this was the USA and people don't "lose their right" to criticize just because they pull their support from a movie or anything else.

I'm in the "Joss took the sky from me" camp with the deaths. Loved the movie, hated the deaths, TO ME, they were not necessary. I'm one of those people that goes to movies to see a happy ending. You can have suspense without having characters die. I am also one of the people who will continue to support the cast and Universal and see the movie over and over, convincing as many people as I can to see it with me. There are a lot of folks on another post who have "pulled" their support and I am trying to convince them not to. But I can certainly understand where they are coming from and their decision/opinion is just as valid as anyone elses.

I aim to misbehave!

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Friday, October 7, 2005 2:17 PM

TUBETECHNOLOGY

Quote:
Originally posted by fireflyfan278:
I'm not "happy to leave the verse". I plan to watch the Firelfy DVD's till they wear out and then buy more.

Learn how to spell Joss' name correctly, first.

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Friday, October 7, 2005 2:46 PM

JASONZZZ

so, I see a lot of extreme positions here.

- People throwing away their DVDs
- Swearing it off forever
- People telling others to "love it or leave"
- People keep repeating "because Joss wants it that way" " Good enough for me" ,etc.

Look, let's just recognize all of the extreme positions as valid emotional outbursts and venting *AND* move on to better and constructive dialog... I see a lot of good with what Thanatus and HKCavalier (great movie BTW), voicing their discontent on what they saw as something foisted on them. They aren't just bitching, there's a lot of good analysis going on here. I can't ever accept that there is a franchise so extremely perfect that 1) it never has any flaws 2) it can't be improved somehow... But, those of you who *do* are perfectly free to "feel" that way *and* might have perfectly legitimate reason to believe so.

I say if you have reasoning to believe that it is completely flawless, bring it out, punch those keys and let's talk about them. I've heard that people feel that way, let's talk about why... On that same vein, let's hear from folks like Thanatus and HKC about wy they feel that the movie isn't doing exactly *it* for them...

Quote:
Originally posted by Thanatus:
So...let me see if I got this straight. Because we don't like the gratuitous deaths of major characters (BTW Wash was not my favorite character), and have some issues with this endeavor, we are dithering simpletons and we should find simpler faire for our feeble minds where major characters don't die, right? Like maybe...FIREFLY?!? Let's grasp some perspective here, people. Some people dislike Serenity because it was a cinematic disappointment, not because we're sad that our avatar(?) died. And I think I'm going to hurl if one more person says "(it) had to happen, because that's how it happens in real life. That's reality, man!" I said it on another post (but deleted it to accomodate peoples' squeemishness) and I'll say it again...If Joss wants to show the horrors of war and gunplay, then Jayne's arm is blown off for example. In "real life" you don't take 3 high caliber rounds to the shoulder and walk away with a few small puncture wounds. Show of hands...how many people out there have ever been in combat or had to draw a weapon in fear for their or their mates' lives? So please, let's see these plot devices for what they are...PLOT DEVICES used for shock value. Look I'm sure this will rile some people, and if it does...I appologize. I have no desire to leave this franchise...can we just discuss this movie and work through some possible improvements so that maybe Joss/Universal can get some feedback on what works/what doesn't? Maybe we can have a positive impact on this franchise again. BTW...Active boycotting and/or not even giving Serenity a chance? Lame. Pure and simple.

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Friday, October 7, 2005 2:49 PM

JASONZZZ

Ok, let's hear from embers on why you think that "whining" about it isn't going to do any good. I think history has it better that indeed "whining" about it has changed a lot of things...

In fact, I am willing to bet good money that just sitting around with your mouth shut isn't going to influence things around you too much...

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Quote:
Originally posted by Thanatus:
can we just discuss this movie and work through some possible improvements so that maybe Joss/Universal can get some feedback on what works/what doesn't? Maybe we can have a positive impact on this franchise again. BTW...Active boycotting and/or not even giving Serenity a chance? Lame. Pure and simple.

If Joss had been allowed to continue creating 'Firefly' he would have killed off characters,
it is what he does. He finds it meaningful.

He has never listened to 'feedback' before
(and believe me you couldn't BELIEVE the nashing of teeth that occured around so many things he did on Buffy or Angel)
there is no reason to believe he would now....

But MOST people here don't agree that it would be necessary anyway.
Most people here love the film.

You want a show of hands? Frankly I think it is about a thousand to one....
maybe I'm wrong, maybe one in a hundred.
But whatever it is, whining about it isn't going to change anyone else's opinion.

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Friday, October 7, 2005 2:55 PM

JASONZZZ

I agree, I thought it was a joke... Me? scenes like that remind me of those Halloween fright flicks - you know, where the two teenagers are in bed in a hot sexy scene making out and out of nowhere Jason spears the both of them (accompanied by the biggest orchestral crash or violin whine), almost comparable to the old "cat jumping out from behind the curtain with a loud cat-screech" horror device... To me, that's what it reminded me off, sort of cheap, sort of hilarious all at the same time.

Quote:
Originally posted by Thanatus:
I'm with HKC on this...If Wash absolutely had to die and it furthers the plot of future sequels, fine. I know I for one would have felt much better about it had the ship come to a rest and we see Wash impaled on the control yoke. Then we see the harpoons coming through the cabin and Mal and Zoe have to skin out. Fine. That would have been less distracting....dying with his boots on as it were. Dying mid sentence while he's being snarky...not so much. I think most of us are really arguing style over substance here. I remember at the end when they were burying their dead, I was thinking "two more movies in the (hoped for trilogy)...there's still a lot of room on that mesa, but I'm sure Joss can fill it in the end." Not the final thought this die-hard Firefly fan had hoped for.

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Friday, October 7, 2005 2:59 PM

JASONZZZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Thanatus:
Hey all...little tangential here, but I'm new to these boards (PS-Post Serenity). Curious, though...did this level of acrimony, in-fighting, and outright contempt for one another and their opinions exist here prior to Serenity? If not, does that tell anyone else something about Joss' success/lack thereof here? Dunno, maybe it's just me...but to see this (assumed) shift in an otherwise solid fanbase seems it should raise some eyebrows somewhere.

No, it's pretty much a big love fest b4 the movie. I won't go as far as saying the lack of criticality - If I say it, it's just exactly what I mean and not trying to insult folk's intelligence, so let's say the lack of *evidence* of criticality before...

but plenty of that if you move yourself over to Real World Events.

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Friday, October 7, 2005 3:03 PM

WASHBURN

The loss of Shepard Book and my personal favorite character Wash was a saddening experience for me during an otherwise amazing film. Now with the loss of Book we lose a serious point of contention with his story...where did he come from? What was he before he became a Shepard? You know he was some part of the Alliance at one point thanks to the episode Safe during the series.

Now onto the loss of Wash....my personal favorite character in the series. He brought a child like sense of humor to the ship. As so seen in the pilot episodes,(the last two episodes aired in the series)were they pan to him playing with what else but dinosaurs. Made me identify with him heavily, because here he was with an amazingly difficult job and he kept his humor about him. Replying to a comment by Jayne:
"Oh they wouldn't arrest me I'm just the pilot"

To Mal during War stories:
"See there's obeying going on right under my nose!"

Now with the death of Wash you have an interesting point to bring up. Wash and Zoe..you see how she loved him so deeply. So where does this place her? Well I think if another movie or the series starts back up you have Zoe wanting to kill as many Reavers as she possibly could every time they go up against them.

As for my opinion on Joss Whedon's vision and killing off Book and Wash? I hate him for it. but will I ban the series? no....will I leave the 'verse he created HELL NO. But the thought of heading into the black without the best damn pilot ever worries me about the fate of Serenity. There was a line by Mal at the end of the movie that explains why Wash was so damn good, I'm pulling off a small part of the line.

"Love..you gotta love the ship" Right there is what made Wash such a damn good pilot...he loved Serenity and it's crew.

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar"

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Friday, October 7, 2005 3:49 PM

SAFEAT2ND

Seems to me after reading all these posts, that true fans are in fact NOT boycotting the movie, nor abandoning the franchise, just voicing their opinion clearly and concisely. Yes, I've seen the posts at the O-boards, but I figure of those posting, most are Browncoats to whom the wound is still raw and they are still reacting to it. I got stomped on there myself.

These are the ones that would benefit from reading this and Firefly gal’s and Chrisall's threads. The people posting here, for the most part, are accepting and reassuring to those in need. Trying to encourage them to keep the faith, not brow beating them into liking the movie like some extremists are.

For those "disillusioned", for lack of a better word, take strength in this; Serenity does not/ cannot change what Firefly was, only what it can or will be. It is but the first chapter, let’s see what the second chapter brings.

Safeat2nd, Chief Handyman of Destiny

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Friday, October 7, 2005 6:17 PM

JAIF

"Now with the loss of Book we lose a serious point of contention with his story...where did he come from? What was he before he became a Shepard?"

We don't lose it. For all we know, the sequel starts with Book's old comrade-in-arms or illegitimate son approaching Zoe with a job, and suddenly we're back in action.

On a tangent - I've read a few posts now talking about "extreme" positions or stating that we're bickering. I'd like to note that it's possible for people to take strong positions on a subject, debate it with strong language, and still not cause a social breach. I don't hate a person who disagrees with me, nor am I going to get angry just because they belittle my position. The only thing that really matters is that we don't make personal attacks, and in reverse, we take statements a bit more easily realizing that we can't see the body language and hear the tone behind them. Not everyone is a great communicator, either (I sure ain't), so we can work to understand what a person is trying to say even if it's not clear.

I've rambled, but basically I don't think this thread has been overly harsh.

-Jeff

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Friday, October 7, 2005 8:18 PM

MACBAKER

Quote:
Originally posted by Thanatus:
So...let me see if I got this straight. Because we don't like the gratuitous deaths of major characters (BTW Wash was not my favorite character), and have some issues with this endeavor, we are dithering simpletons and we should find simpler faire for our feeble minds where major characters don't die, right? Like maybe...FIREFLY?!?

This is the problem! Firefly, the dvd set, is safe because it's a closed book! Yes, in the first 14 episodes, no major character died, but you are mistaken if you believe for a minute that major characters wouldn't have died if the series hadn't been canceled. I guess for you, it's a good thing FOX canceled the series, cuz, like the movie, I doubt you would have liked where the series would have gone!

Lets get a little perspective here! Over the course of those 14 episodes, every character been shot or stabbed at least once. The grand exception being Inara (who btw is the only character to also come though the movie without a major injury). With the lives these people led, death was inevitiable! Sooner or later their luck was going to run out, and someone was going to fall.

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Friday, October 7, 2005 8:29 PM

JASONZZZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Thanatus:
Hey all...little tangential here, but I'm new to these boards (PS-Post Serenity). Curious, though...did this level of acrimony, in-fighting, and outright contempt for one another and their opinions exist here prior to Serenity? If not, does that tell anyone else something about Joss' success/lack thereof here? Dunno, maybe it's just me...but to see this (assumed) shift in an otherwise solid fanbase seems it should raise some eyebrows somewhere.

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Friday, October 7, 2005 9:02 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Here's some additional reading material to consider from threads previously posted...

Well, I think the Real World Events Discussion section of fireflyfans (where all but one of these links are from) is a bit of a special circumstance. We have been known to get a mite stroppy over there.

As far as threads that are specifically related to Firefly, I do remember things getting tense on occasion. But that wasn't the behavior of the majority. This one topic does tend to cut to the bone more than most. Hopefully we can maintain civility while disagreeing.

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Saturday, October 8, 2005 7:03 PM

BUBBLEOFEARTH

Quote:
Originally posted by Crumpy:
Only if they have no imagination. In the movie it has been six months since Jubel Early! So why did Book go to Haven? What happened when Inara left Serenity, did Mal choke? How many battery operated devices has Kaylee worn out? Have Wash and Zoe given up on the idea of kids?
All these and other questions can be answered in Serenity -1 (the prequel?).

I haven't read all the way to the bottom yet, and I apologize if I'm repeating anyone, but except for the batteries and Mal Choking, oh so many of these questions and more were answered in the comics that mostly filled in the blank months between Early and The Operative.

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Saturday, October 8, 2005 7:22 PM

JADEHAND

Quote:
Originally posted by Washburn:
Now with the loss of Book we lose a serious point of contention with his story...where did he come from? What was he before he became a Shepard? You know he was some part of the Alliance at one point thanks to the episode Safe during the series.

Now I've seen speculation and agree myself that the answer to Book's past is clearly told in the film.

Select to view spoiler:

He was an Operative. And like this one saw something that shattered his faith in the Alliance. So he found faith elsewhere. Maybe he had a hand in Miranada, or Serenity Valley. I wouldn't be shocked to see this Operative in an abby soon.

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 3:13 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

It comes to this:

People watched the movie once and then swore to never see it again. They did this for no readily apparent reason.

That’s all that there is to it. If they liked Wash why don’t they want to see him alive again? If they like Firefly why do they refuse to give it a chance? We know that people who did exactly the same thing but then were compelled to see it again, dragged in by friends, liked it the second time around. They were able to see things more clearly and they enjoyed the film.

So why would you refuse to give the film a second chance? I can’t come up with a reason. I’ve seen things that I absolutely hated and had no reason to like that I could see, and when enough people who shared my interests told me to give them a second chance I did.

There is no way I would refuse to give a second chance to something with characters I loved.

-

It honestly seems to me like if you won’t see the movie a second time you can’t like Wash much. You refuse to show the character any respect at all. But I don’t do psychology, I’m a math major.

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 3:20 AM

RIVERBIRCH

Quote:
Originally posted by XanderHarris:
because of wash's death? i mean seriously? it was upseting....but still....

I saved Latin, what did you ever do?

I was devestated too but I think a TRUE fan would not boycott, nor leave the browncoats because of this. I think true colors show with the reaction to the movie.

* I swallowed a bug *

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 3:38 AM

REVAER

With respect to the emotions people have towards their favorite,
(possibly redundant, but since I was recently stung...

SPOILER!!!!)

All these characters are birthed from the mind of Mr. Whedon. Kill your support, and your truly kill these characters and their interactive counterparts that helped them become who they were. If you can fall so deeply for one whose lifetime has actually spanned one TV season plus a movie, imagine what Joss could come up with if he had more support. I did not want King Arthur to bite it. His greatness is all the more magnified by his exit. Better than Wash dying from an intestinal blockage (not reaver induced). Honor the characters and strive for more from Joss, or they really are dead.

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 3:39 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverbirch:
I was devestated too but I think a TRUE fan would not boycott, nor leave the browncoats because of this. I think true colors show with the reaction to the movie.

I think you're being overly dramatic. I agree that a true fan would not boycott when thinking rationally.

But the whole point is that this is in relation to the most emotional part of the movie.

A "true fan" (what a slippery term) would give it a second chance just because a lot of things, especially emotionally powerful ones, need a second time before you can decide if you like it or not.

We’ve already heard a lot of reports where people who were never planing on seeing it again did for whatever reason and realized that they did like/love it and wanted to go back another time.

These people might love the movie if they saw it a second time, but they just refuse to do so. It doesn’t make sense, but then again nothing ever does.

-
-

Important Note

I agree that a true fan would give it a second chance, but that does not mean that such a fan will like it.

If someone honestly gives it another chance and honestly hates it that is fine. There is no rule that says a Firefly fan must like every episode, and certainly no rule that they must like Serenity. If someone watches it once, decides never to watch it again, and calls themselves a fan I lose respect for them.

If, on the other hand, someone watches it once, does not like it, but then gives it that second chance and still doesn’t like it there is no problem. They gave it the chance it deserved and we obviously disagree, but they did all that we can expect and in no way disrespected the show or movie.

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 3:47 AM

RIVERBIRCH

[christhecynic, you put it much more diplomatically than I did. Of course you are right. I am emotional at the moment. Thanks for being the calmer voice.

* I swallowed a bug *

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 3:57 AM

WASHBURN

Now I've seen speculation and agree myself that the answer to Book's past is clearly told in the film.

Select to view spoiler:

With your post I thought of something and went and saw Serenity for the 6th time. Is it just me but.....

Select to view spoiler:

But is it just me or is there some sort of similarities between the operative and Book? I mean look at Book's fighting style (seen in Serenity pt 1 when he punches out the lawman) and the operatives. Not only are they similar but damn but I saw some Book in the operative not only fighting but spiritual. Maybe, just maybe whedon has a HUGE surprise for us and the operative turns out to be Book's child he never knew of.

I am a leaf on the wind watch how I soar.

See! There's obeying going on right under my nose!

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 4:06 AM

SAFEAT2ND

CHRISTHECYNIC, well said! That echos my views too.

Safeat2nd, Chief Handyman of Destiny

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 4:07 AM

EMMA

I am kind of middle of the road with this film I fully understand and appreciate both points of view. However, I do not understand why some (not all) people on either side of the debate become so vitriolic towards and about fans that disagree with them.

The insults, ignorance and general lack of friendliness that has surrounded this debate has really bugged me (personal opinion, don't stress out). Everyone should just accept and get over the opinions others have. Life is way too short to care if X thinks Y. Forget about it and have a bar of chocolate instead!

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 8:25 AM

RIVERBIRCH

Quote:
Originally posted by Washburn:

us and the operative turns out to be Book's child he never knew of.

I am a leaf on the wind watch how I soar.

See! There's obeying going on right under my nose!

Well they are both handsome enough. Jubal I didn't think was too handsome. But Book and this guy certainly are, so it could be feasible that he's his son... but would he then kill his own father???

* I swallowed a bug *

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:36 PM

WASHBURN

Well maybe like Book he didn't know...but it comes out later and the operative helps out Mal against the alliance. I'm not saying this is true but knowing Whedon's twisting mind I'm not going to be surprised if something along these lines comes out to be true.

Like I stated before people who are boycotting this film are voicing their opinion....can you be mad? yes...can you blame them? no why? it's their opinion folks...just deal with it

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 1:16 AM

JARON95

Quote:
Originally posted by TheCrazyIvan:
true fans are here to stay....

Wash-less or not...this story is NOT over!

Indeed. There can be no distinction between Firefly fans and Serenity fans. You either are, or you are not. Serenity IS the future of Firefly, despite whatever flimsy excuses one might conjure up to convince oneself otherwise.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:48 AM

M4TT

I do find it all rather interesting. There are fans who love the show and movie and want to go on the journey wherever it may take them, through the rough and smooth. Then there are the fans who only want the easy ride it seems and will reject it if it doesn't play out how they want.

Or maybe some are really emotional about the events and just kick out at anyone near them, some are just shocked and move on.

The thing is they're all still on the firefly site talking about firefly so they ALL still care. And they ALL will carry on watching. Otherwise they'd have left by now to do something else.

"There's only one thing worse than being talked about, and that's not being talked about".

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:30 AM

DREAMTROVE

Such a fan who would boycott the movie for this reason is a throwback. I mean I met trekkies who did this to star trek films, and they were demented. These people where tinfoil beenies. No offense to trekkies or the 'coats but if these guys showed up to the film wearing klingon battle gear they'd probably scare the fish away.

Such folk aren't Joss fans. To quote Steven Colbert "You people are brave. You're doing something. You're watching TV." If there are fans out there who can't handle living on the edge to such a degree that they can't handle watching the way Joss deals it out, then they aren't really Joss fans. I think he works hard to make mindless vegetative eye-candy as edgy as possible. And please don't flame me for that characterization of TV, Joss himself has said much worse things about it.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:27 AM

IAMALEAFONTHEWIND

I've been reading a ton of posts over the last couple of weeks and when I back off and look at what seems to be upsetting people, I see this:

A lot of fans have watched the seriers episodes over and over and over and in the process have created their own personal versions of what they think the characters are. So, years later, when the movie is finally released, they walk into the theatre with an entire attic full of expectations. How could they NOT be dissapointed?

I've read all these posts: "So and so wouldn't do this" "so and so wouldn't do that". "This was meaningless and stupid" "that was insulting and senseless". ALL of these complaints are bourne out of people's own personal expectations in my humble opinion. It's a bummer, but it's true.

Wash's death may seem meaningless to a lot of people. That doesn't mean that the story is not structurally sound. It is. I think people are entitled to their opinions and it's great that they're willing to share them here. I also think it's important that no one, not even Joss, is above constructive critisism. But I haven't heard much of that anywhere on these boards. I've heard a bunch of shocked fans who can't believe this or that. The truth of the matter is: You're in Joss playground. It's not yours, it's his. I think the outrage and dissapointment comes because people really care about these characters (which is great), but what some seem to have forgotten is that they're Joss's characters. How can anyone possibly think they know these characters' motivations and traits better than Joss? That's rediculous.

And while I have heard people give what seems to be thoughtful critisisms, they're still frought with emotion. People don't like that Wash died. It seemed meaningless. Joss is just jerking us around. It's not fair. Well, neither is life. It never has been. And if Joss wants to jerk you around, then that's his prerogative. Personally I don't think that's what he was doing. I think he was making a point and using it as a device to highten the tension. Some people can look at that and see it as a shallow storytelling gimic. But really, so can everything else then. Storytelling is formulaic. It just is.

I think that if most of the dissapointed people pushed past the emotional shock they've had to the film and look at it from that new vantage point they would see how technically and emotionally sound it is. Does it have some major bummer stuff in it? Hell yes (Wash has always been my favorite character), but that doesn't mean it wasn't a great story, and a fitting story at that, to really take these characters to new places and tie up what was unfinished from the series.

And I'm sorry but the characters are the same characters from the series. They are, through and through. Anybody who doesn't think so has just forgotten that they're Joss's characters and not their own. But to me even that is kinda cool 'cause that means that these characters are soooo likable that people have completely adopted them as their own. But you gotta let go of some of that if you are to enjoy the movie and accept it as the completion of the story.

And for anyone who still thinks that the movie sucked and could have done better, then go and do so! I loved the movie, so if you made one that was actually better I'd be lining up to see it over and over just like I have this one.

"I don't wanna explode."

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