A Thousand Tiny Details {Warning: Spoilerific} by RocketJock

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

A Thousand Tiny Details {Warning: Spoilerific}

POSTED BY: ROCKETJOCK
UPDATED: Friday, October 14, 2005 16:41
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Saturday, October 8, 2005 6:04 PM

Warning up front: This thread is posted as containing spoilers; don't read further unless you don't care.

Lots of people sweating out the box office tonight. Important stuff, and I could easily spend the night doing the same, but that thought wearies me.

Instead I'd like to celebrate the artistic triumph that makes a sequel something worth the effort of worrying about.

First off, for the record: Even if I'd never heard of Firefly, or Joss Whedon, I would have thought of Serenity as a top-notch SF film, way ahead of the curve. Consider...

--The incredibly layered and nuanced pre-credit sequence, so outstanding that Universal has posted it for viewing on-line, proving that the BDM is its own best advertising:

At first we assume it to be a narration, lovely if a bit dry; then we realize that it is actually a history lesson--and the nature of the classroom combined with the teacher's attitude tells us as much about the Alliance and the Core Worlds as the dusty history lesson ever did. We've just gotten our new bearings when the story slams into Grand Guignol horror as visceral as the stylus/needle that slams into River's forehead. Take a breath, but quickly--now we're in an action movie prison break scene with a touch of James Bond--only to find out that everything we've seen has been recap!

By the time The Operative asks his question of River's image, the audience knows everything they need to know about the main story arc's backstory and universe--and its been done seamlessly, painlessly, and with a considerable amount of action, combined with a stylish introduction to The Operative himself.

That's nine minutes.

Some other gems:

--The rinky-tink player piano music drifting over the orchestral main theme. I could almost see Fast Eddie Costigan pounding the ivories. Anyone who thinks Joss was trying to disown Firefly's western roots just needs to hear this riff.

--The stem-to-stern, two-deck tracking shot that let us know the layout and dimensions of Serenity herself. Hallelujah, what a victory lap!

--River's eye-squinch at Zoe during the bank job.

--Jayne pouring whiskey into his wound, and then down his throat.

--The drink dispenser in the Maidenhead bar.

--Fruity Oaty Bars. (Help me please, sweet baby Jesus, get that gorram jingle out of my head!)

--Mr. Universe breaking the wineglass at his "wedding".

--"Am I talking to Miranda now?"

--"Dear Buddha, I want a pony, and a plastic rocket..."

--"Please, talk to him for an hour."

--Operative: "I am unarmed--"
Mal: "Good."

Operative: "I am, of course, wearing full body armor. I am not a moron."

--"That's not incense."

--Mal's casual, cold-blooded (and entirely justified) killing of the Alliance pilot.

--"She is beginning to damage my calm."

--The research/rescue vessel's reg number, C57D. (Well, after all, Miranda was a "forbidden planet".)

--The fact that it's Jayne, Jayne of all people, who voices the crew's decision to go for broke with Mal. It takes a hell of a lot to make that man take the moral high ground.

--The way Jayne slides the booze bottle to Simon--and Simon's acceptance of it.

--The clips from a vintage Fleisher Studios Superman cartoon showing on Mr. Universe's monitors.

--"I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."

--"The hell with this. I'm gonna live!"

--River and the reavers. (Buffy who?)

--The look in The Operative's eyes as he sees the reality of what his dream has led to.

--Serenity's victory roll as she leaves atmo.

Whew. Quite a ride for a hair under two hours.

So, what's your favorite moment?

"What was that?" -- Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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Saturday, October 8, 2005 6:29 PM

JADEHAND

too many great moments. too many great lines. but I love....
Mal: You did the right thing.
Book: coming from you, that means....almost nothing.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"Dreaming the dream that only the sleepless know."

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Saturday, October 8, 2005 9:13 PM

LIMINALOSITY

I haven't read a post anywhere about the amazing chase scene on the souped up mule, except sort of peripheral stuff like comments about Mal shooting the guy from the vault, and River's line at the end about swallowing a bug. I was at the edge of my seat for the entire sequence, from the second they burst through the laundry till River says she ate a bug. The mule was slow, and close to the ground (ok, think back a couple years to the speeder chase through the redwoods and how fast that seemed). The Reaver ship chasing them was a comparatively enormous, nasty predator looking thing with 'blood' all over it, pouring out gouts of thick, oily smoke, making lots of glub glub engine noise. It was much faster than the mule, which suddenly looked kind of like an upscsale forklift when the shot showed the Reavers behind them. That was one hot chase scene. I love it that they have names like 'Barnswallow' and 'Crazy Ivan' for the edgiest moves.

When I was a kid I really enjoyed driving on frozen lakes. Nothing teaches you how to get out of a potentially horrific situation better than practicing crazy stunts in a safe place, and I love watching chase scenes like this one because I know the peeps who wrote it got there by practicing with something.

Joss kept the tension of that sequence going for a really long time too, all the way till Zoe and Wash put their foreheads together and Zoe says 'that was clooose'. Beauty.

"We gotta go to the crappy town where I'M a hero!" -Wash

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Saturday, October 8, 2005 9:32 PM

THECRAZYIVAN

Quote:
--The rinky-tink player piano music drifting over the orchestral main theme. I could almost see Fast Eddie Costigan pounding the ivories. Anyone who thinks Joss was trying to disown Firefly's western roots just needs to hear this riff.

--The stem-to-stern, two-deck tracking shot that let us know the layout and dimensions of Serenity herself. Hallelujah, what a victory lap!

AMEN TO THOSE!

My favorite part...was just seeing Serenity (the ship), then looking around and realizing i was in a gorram movie theatre!

But OH GOD did it kill me when they unprettyfied her to look like a reaver ship. I teared up right there, Serenity being the 10th member and all. Then when Serenity went down on Mr. Universe's moon? THAT KILLED ME MORE! Just watching her bounch around and then the engine being torn off...*tear* It was like another death. AND THEN WASH?! heart attack...

I saw it back in june, keeping all that from my friends for so long also was killin me...

I know this thread was for things we loved...but i love that the movie made me feel so deeply! So there, justification.

~~~~~~~~~~
"There is a sense that this is still not over. It's hard to put a finger on what's so special about this project and about this group of people, but it's just one of those things you have to trust in, and relish. I am very, very proud."
---Jewel Staite on "Firefly" and "Serenity" in "Finding Serenity" (essay collection by Jane Espenson)

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 2:48 AM

ZIPPLY

Quote:
Originally posted by liminalosity:
I love it that they have names like 'Barnswallow' and 'Crazy Ivan' for the edgiest moves.

Actually, a 'Crazy Ivan' is a "classic" submarine manoever. And nicely, our Firefly is mentioned in the Wikipedia definition of it!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Ivan

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 3:15 AM

STOWAWAY

This is my first time to this site. Here goes...

The trailer for the movie looked pretty good. The first time we saw it, we didn't know anything about the history of the show. I knew that the movie was based on a TV show, and then I remembered that it was called Firefly and that we had seen commercials for it a year or two ago (couldn't really remember) and that we sorta forgot to watch it whenever it was that it finally came out.

So when Serenity premiered, we kinda went back and forth with whether or not we should get the series on DVD and watch it first or if it would matter. Unfortunately, it was moot since we couldn't find the damn DVDs anywhere. Until the other day...

I picked up the box at Tower on Tuesday (turns out they had just gotten some in) and we watched the pilot that night.

What's amazing about the pilot is that, while most sci-fi takes a while to bring you in and care about the people in it, Firefly did not. It made us care about them instantly.

That one two-hour show did such a brilliant job of introducing us, making us care and actually telling an interesting story (in a way we hadn't seen sci-fi told before) that I was just so impressed.

I probably can't say anything great about the show that likely hasn't been said a zillion times before, but that's not really the point of this post.

The point is that after having seen the movie yesterday, I probably would disagree to a certain extent that the movie would be just as solid without having seen the show.

Sure, it had lots of action, cool effects, and a bushel of humor, but if you really detach yourself from the film and series and think about it, there's no way somebody could get the same experience from the film without the series behind them.

Many of the jokes are much less funny without the history of the characters. And, unquestionably, the interperson relationships between the core cast members just don't have the punch on their own, just from the film, that they do if you've seen the series first.

And how could they? The film did a good job of making the uninitiated understand the relationships, but understanding something and feeling something are two vastly different things.

The show's ability to make these characters seem real, within the confines of their version of the 'verse, is truly amazing. You take away moments from the show like they're moments from your own life, with peoples' expressions burned into your brain. You feel that uneasy feeling in your stomach at times and laugh out loud at others and you can fully appreciate...you can really feel...the longing between Inara and Mal.

The movie, due to its time constraints, has to tell a compelling story, and it does. But if you haven't seen the show, I fear that's all it does...tell the story...not by any fault of the film, its cast or crew, but by absense of the true history of the sphere of reality that's been created by the show.

In all of this, the only true failure here is by Fox in blowing one of the best opportunities they've ever had. Last night my girlfriend seriously complained about the fact that she can't stand that Firefly / Serenity is already over...

Many of you lived through this in "real time"...waiting anxiously each week, then having to deal with the confusion and anger of having the show cancelled before it was done.

We went through it in four days. Less annoying for sure, but it'll be missed no less, I assure you.

Firefly was fun, brilliant in a simple way, exciting, and in all ways, passionate and romantic. For Fox to let that slip through its fingers is both mysterious and maddening.

And to be honest, I'd rather have another 8 seasons of the show than even one more sequel. Because like the best of friends, the friendship only gets deeper, better and more cherished the more time you spend together.

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 3:23 AM

ARAMINA

Quote:

But OH GOD did it kill me when they unprettyfied her to look like a reaver ship. I teared up right there, Serenity being the 10th member and all. Then when Serenity went down on Mr. Universe's moon? THAT KILLED ME MORE! Just watching her bounch around and then the engine being torn off...*tear*

Right there with you. I was torn to bits myself watching Serenity being turned into an abomination and then rocked and bounced around. But then like you said, Serenity really was the 10th member and she went through just as much as the rest of the crew for the greater good.

God love her!

When I think of an interesting signature you'll be the first to know.

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 3:24 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
So, what's your favorite moment?

I have a hard time picking one, it seems like every time I come on one I think of another I either like more or just as much.

Even so there are two that I would like to highlight:

"I swallowed a bug."

I just feel like that is a perfect example of River. She's not being crazy there, she's perfectly lucid and it isn't something to do with being a psychic or a killing machine, yet she's still living in a different kind of reality, her perception of things is so different.

The other is one you mentioned

Quote:
--The way Jayne slides the booze bottle to Simon--and Simon's acceptance of it.

I love that, it’s such a simple scene, a simple gesture, but it says so much.

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 3:35 AM

DONCOAT

Welcome, Stowaway. Glad to know you've joined our obsession. I don't think anyone here cares whether you found Firefly/Serenity in 2002 or yesterday.

I think most people here would agree that a return of the TV series would be better than more movies. Right now, with the movie "underperforming", the issue may be moot. The best we can do is hope that everybody concerned is keeping their options open.

While I agree that the movie is probably more moving and involving for those who have already fallen in love with these characters through the TV series, there are plenty of reports (here and elsewhere) that "Firefly virgins" can enjoy it very much.

For one thing, sales of the DVD set are quite high right now (which may be the reason you couldn't find it in the stores originally). Some of those sales are to folks like you who wanted to watch the series before the movie... but there are also a lot of people who see the movie and then rush out to buy the DVDs.

As to your other comments about the show: you'll find a lot of discussion in other threads about the differences between the series and the movie. Some long-time fans feel that Serenity was not faithful enough to the spirit of the show; others disagree. Some Browncoats feel betrayed by certain things Joss put into the movie; others are saddened but understand and accept.

To me, the reason for those differences was mostly the two-hour movie format. A TV series gives you the luxury of time. There's more room to breathe, to do exposition over several episodes, and of course even our one abbreviated season gave us 14 hours to get to know our family in the 'verse, not two. The movie also had to make those character introductions -- for nine major characters! -- while the action was pushing ahead almost nonstop. It was a huge writing challenge, and I don't know anyone who's handled it better than Our Mr. Whedon.

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 3:59 AM

STOWAWAY

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
Welcome, Stowaway. Glad to know you've joined our obsession. I don't think anyone here cares whether you found Firefly/Serenity in 2002 or yesterday.

Why thank you!

Quote:
As to your other comments about the show: you'll find a lot of discussion in other threads about the differences between the series and the movie. Some long-time fans feel that Serenity was not faithful enough to the spirit of the show; others disagree. Some Browncoats feel betrayed by certain things Joss put into the movie; others are saddened but understand and accept.

Yeah, I've since read a few other posts...I agree with some of the negativity about the film, some I don't. And I definitely understand the time constraint / difference in the formats.

I will say that I agree that the dialog in the movie didn't seem as natural (within context) as it did in the series. The movie didn't showcase as much of the wild west aspect of the 'verse, yet the dialog was moreso, which I think probably ultimately does a disservice to the film, especially in the eyes of people who've not seen the show first.

Quote:
It was a huge writing challenge, and I don't know anyone who's handled it better than Our Mr. Whedon.

I never really watched Buffy or Angel much but I have to say the writing of 'Firefly' in particular is really impressive...I follow pop culture stuff so I've read alot about JW and his shows and his writing style, but, again, the series really impressed me for sure. I do think that the movie's writing was a bit imperfect at times, but overall we both enjoyed the film a lot...it was intense and fun and there's a lot to be proud of it for cast and crew alike.

I just want more, more and a more show is all.

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 7:19 AM

ROCKETJOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by Stowaway:

The point is that after having seen the movie yesterday, I probably would disagree to a certain extent that the movie would be just as solid without having seen the show.

Glad you said "to a certain extent", as I am an egotistical SOB who can't stand to be contradicted. (Footnote: That's intended to be a joke, son.)

Seriously, I agree that familiarity with the universe and characters enhances enjoyment of the movie; all I'm saying is that Joss did a great job of giving sufficient intro and backstory so that a new arrival could enjoy the film whole-heartedly, without resorting to "Nigel Exposition Syndrome".

And hey, welcome to the family. The more the merrier.

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 5:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I think you covered about all of it! One thing I FINALLY noticed in the 4th or 5th viewing.... when they bring River into the bank, I always thought it was because she would read who ever it is that has the combo to the safe. But that wasn't it at all. Mal even says, during the long scene in the ship at the start, she's being brought because she can spot trouble before it happens. And that's what she's doing... reading that guy w/ the gun before he's even pulled it.

Duh.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 6:47 PM

ALLARTICULATE

Stowaway, you have summed up my experience perfectly. It was one week for my husband and me. One week! Whew

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 7:28 PM

JOEMO

Part of me wants to disagree with you on the return to tv. I honestly don't know if that would be what I would want. If I could have it my way I would obviously want both.... more big damn movies and more big damn serieses. Think of this, a mixed media approach to the Firefly verse. Three seasons of tv then another movie, then 3 more seasons of tv and then the final movie.

I don't know if that would work but I just want as much Firefly as I can get.

On and on a side note, is it wierd that I thought it was cool when Serenity was turned into a reaver ship? I mean here is how I see it. Mal was ready for war, I mean he pulled his gun on the rest of the crew. He needed a ship ready for war to go with him.

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 7:56 PM

ALEAFINTHEWIND

My first post...
I guess it;s best to make it here..

I could sit here for hours an analyze my favorite moments in the BDM. I'll mention a few and then I'll go for specifics on others

- Inara and her Bow.. that was awesome.

- Kaylee: "Goin on a year and I haven't had anything 'twixt my nethers that didn't run on batteries"
Mal: GOD! I can;t know that."
Jayne: " I could stand to hear a little more"

Gorram it I love the whole more I could list favorite bites forever.. but some moments that shined to me.

- When Mal goes off to be alone, after they leave haven, he is wandering aimlessly and his feet lead him to, what I took to be, Inara's shuttle.

-The operative. Everything about this character was amazing from the way it was written, to the performance, everything, the highlight was his relationship with Mal. THe look on his face that seemed to say "What have I got to do to keep you down" in the final battle, the look of disappointment in his eyes when he thinks that Mal is going to have the operative blow him out of the air.

- I fought and fought last night when I saw the BDM for the third time, to not cry, and while I managed it during the movie, to some extent, during the credits, at the end, there is aversion of the firefly theme from TV, with no words, and in a minor key.. That moves me so much.

so yeah.. a few of my favorite things about the movie.. but there are SOOOOOO many more.

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 9:26 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by zipply:
Quote:
Originally posted by liminalosity:
I love it that they have names like 'Barnswallow' and 'Crazy Ivan' for the edgiest moves.

Actually, a 'Crazy Ivan' is a "classic" submarine manoever. And nicely, our Firefly is mentioned in the Wikipedia definition of it!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Ivan

Holy popping rivets and bolts, batman, a -submarine- maneuver? Water is some pretty thick stuff for flipping a 180, and they'd probably be a few hundred feet down where the pressure is a bit higher too. Those crazy Russian boys.

I'm glad to hear that DVD sales of the series are up, I'd love to see that being tracked on the site as well as the movie gross (hint hint if anyone's listing - ha ha a boat joke). I wonder if the powers that figure will factor those numbers into the raving fanatic response to the movie. Whady'all think?

A few other thoughts on the million details...

In the classroom sequence at the beginning...after the footage of the naughty outer planet with the looming shadow of a ship over the rinky-dink desert settlement, we shift back to the classroom and a shot on the 'screen' behind the teacher of a dry looking planet which is suddenly skewered by an orbital path ring, and flashes, as the teacher describes how the rebels were brought into the fold. Liked that.

There are a number of times when River is shown lying on Serenity's decking, and in several of those shots her image is juxtaposed with one of Mal, or a close-up shifts directly from one to the other of their faces:
once right after Simon 'innocs' the captain, and Simon walks up the steps to where River is lying on the decking listening to what's happening
once right after Mal brings River back aboard (and I liked that it was Mal, not Simon who picks her up off the floor in the Maidenhead)
once when she's handcuffed to the decking and Jayne is spouting off about Mal bringing River back aboard, and she mouths the words as Mal says he's considered shooting her.

There are several other times when Mal and River are shown together on the decking, but those 3 times are the most powerful. Also, in the 'aim to misbehave' scene in the galley, Mal is standing right behind River, with the light streaming in through the windshield (probably not the right word for it on a ship) behind them, as if he's seen the light and is supporting her - all of this like they're on the same journey back to sanity.

The PAX. After the Alliance defeats the Browncoats they try to develop a chemical Pax Romana to keep everyone asleep and compliant bwah ha ha -what is it Mr Universe says about the somnambulant populace ?? (the trouble with the million details is keeping them all in your head)!

I love it when Kaylee is giving Simon advice when he and River are getting off the ship, and she tells him 'never fly in anything with a Capistan (?) 38 engine, they fall -right- out of the sky'. And take your vitamins, and wear your mittens. She's just too sweet for words. Then a minute later she goes off on the cap about batteries and her nethers like a real pirate.

Simon going to make sure Kaylee's ok (not River, but Kaylee)when the ship is falling out of the sky after the Reavers hit them with the EMP.

Oh, and I know I've blathered on plenty already, should shut up and sit back, but there are 2 more things, and there are so many threads now, I couldn't find a more appropriate place for them.

I haven't been buying that when the Operative stabs Mr Universe, he isn't just plain dead and done, but somehow he manages to crawl across the floor to the snugglebot and record a message to Mal. It just seems too farfetched that he would have survived for even one instant, but now I'm thinking maybe it's because he was a believer (BD theme throughout), and that somehow gave him a 2 minute pass.

Simon, in the first scene on Serenity, when he's arguing with the cap about River going on the caper ('this is anger') and all merry hell is breaking loose on the ship...I've read a bunch of speculation about what's going on with Mal asking to be innoc'd. I think the scene is to remind the viewer who hasn't seen the series that River's brother who rescued her is now the doc on Serenity, as well as to let fans of the series know that this is a much tougher Simon than we're used to seeing. He stands right up to Mal, follows him straight down the stairs as the ship is pitching around, goes into the infirmary and innoculates Mal all without batting an eye, instead of cowering in a corner somewhere.

Anybody got any thoughts on any of this? I liked the movie right away, but it really keeps growing on me. Thanks for letting me go on and bloody on, I'll stop now for a while, promise.

You guys are the best!

"60,000. Untraceable. And I drop it right square in the middle of Mudfarmer Central" -Jayne

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Sunday, October 9, 2005 11:22 PM

RELFEXIVE

"...please God make me a stone..."

Best River moment ever. Rips through me every time I see it.

"My God - you're like a trained ape. Without the training."
"Come a day there won't be room for naughty men like us to slip about at all..."
I know the secret.
http://www.theshadowdepository.co.uk/index.htm

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Monday, October 10, 2005 2:01 AM

REALLYKAYLEE

my dad pointed out the "forbidden planet" reference. just a nod to the very first REAL science fiction film. *sigh* joss=genius.

i wonder if he read it here or if he's as smart as i think he is . . .

shakespeare: more words than God.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 3:24 AM

STATIC

The 'barnswallow' manuver, as I understand it, is also a real manuver...

Imagine a similar situation. . .group of soldiers in a high-speed land vehicle (almost always a Humvee), moving towards an extraction point. From behind and above, a C-130 cargo plane flies overhead, nice and low, and opens the rear cargo ramp. . .throttles back just a bit, while the Humvee accellerates, drives right in and the plane takes off.

I don't know if it's ever been done, but I seem to recall reading about it. I cannae remember if what I was reading was fiction or not, so I may just be talkin' outta my arse.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 8:36 AM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by Static:
The 'barnswallow' manuver, as I understand it, is also a real manuver...

Imagine a similar situation. . .group of soldiers in a high-speed land vehicle (almost always a Humvee), moving towards an extraction point. From behind and above, a C-130 cargo plane flies overhead, nice and low, and opens the rear cargo ramp. . .throttles back just a bit, while the Humvee accellerates, drives right in and the plane takes off.

I don't know if it's ever been done, but I seem to recall reading about it. I cannae remember if what I was reading was fiction or not, so I may just be talkin' outta my arse.

That would be some pretty scary scooping, everything being on the ground and all; much friction and bumpy bits in the way. No reason not to frame grab an idea from another writer, SF writers pay homage like that all the time, and it doesn't make it any less cool if it ain't real.

"I tore these out of your symbol, and they turned into paper, but I wanted to put them back, so..." -River

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Monday, October 10, 2005 7:07 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by liminalosity:
Quote:
Originally posted by zipply:
Quote:
Originally posted by liminalosity:
I love it that they have names like 'Barnswallow' and 'Crazy Ivan' for the edgiest moves.

Simon, in the first scene on Serenity, when he's arguing with the cap about River going on the caper ('this is anger') and all merry hell is breaking loose on the ship...I've read a bunch of speculation about what's going on with Mal asking to be innoc'd. I think the scene is to remind the viewer who hasn't seen the series that River's brother who rescued her is now the doc on Serenity, as well as to let fans of the series know that this is a much tougher Simon than we're used to seeing. He stands right up to Mal, follows him straight down the stairs as the ship is pitching around, goes into the infirmary and innoculates Mal all without batting an eye, instead of cowering in a corner somewhere.

Yes, exactly. A lot of people have complained because Simon shows backbone and competency in both the prologue and the body of the film; they cry "out of character!"

Au contraire, mon freir. Simon was always competent; but in his early days on Serenity he was a fish out of water; Simon Templar in Hooterville. Obviously he's done some acclimatizing in the time since.

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

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Monday, October 10, 2005 7:46 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
Simon Templar in Hooterville.

oooh lol my face hurts. What a picture!

I haven't read the comics or any intervening plot related info, but in Objects in Space things shift quite a bit for both Simon and River in terms of emotional strength and acceptance by the crew. I wasn't surprised to see Simon make a strong entrance, and I very much enjoyed the confidence the character showed.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 8:21 PM

SPACEMANSPIFF

The opening sequence of Serenity hitting atmo...dear sweet God, it gives me goosebumps and makes my hair stand on end. The music, the views, the realism...I'd give almost anything to own Serenity.

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

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Monday, October 10, 2005 8:24 PM

TERAPH

Quote:
Originally posted by liminalosity:
I haven't been buying that when the Operative stabs Mr Universe, he isn't just plain dead and done, but somehow he manages to crawl across the floor to the snugglebot and record a message to Mal. It just seems too farfetched that he would have survived for even one instant, but now I'm thinking maybe it's because he was a believer (BD theme throughout), and that somehow gave him a 2 minute pass.

This is something that I don't think played well in the movie (the Operative's face is in shadow). After he stabs Mr. Universe, the Operative gets a look on his face that's a little disquieted -- not his usual calm.

The script makes this moment even clearer, stating that the Operative is a bit confused and taken aback by the sudden moment and feeling he has.

My theory is that this is where he starts to lose his cool. Mal has just shown that he not only won't give up River, but wants to stick it to the Alliance -- despite all the people who have died so far. This affront to the Alliance and the Operative's mission is finally the point where he starts to get mad. (It's nearing the end of spending an hour with Mal like Inara suggests -- only this has been more of a metaphorical hour. We see more of this when he freaks out about how someone should fire on the Reavers, and then when he shoots Mal in the back, Mal asks if he's made the Operative angry -- which he probably has.)

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Monday, October 10, 2005 10:33 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by teraph:
Quote:
Originally posted by liminalosity:
I haven't been buying that when the Operative stabs Mr Universe, he isn't just plain dead and done, but somehow he manages to crawl across the floor to the snugglebot and record a message to Mal. It just seems too farfetched that he would have survived for even one instant, but now I'm thinking maybe it's because he was a believer (BD theme throughout), and that somehow gave him a 2 minute pass.

This is something that I don't think played well in the movie (the Operative's face is in shadow). After he stabs Mr. Universe, the Operative gets a look on his face that's a little disquieted -- not his usual calm.

This affront to the Alliance and the Operative's mission is finally the point where he starts to get mad. (It's nearing the end of spending an hour with Mal like Inara suggests -- only this has been more of a metaphorical hour.

Yeah, I noticed that look as the Operative leaves the room too. I think he only pretended to be the picture of calm, I think Mal was under his skin from the start. I thought it seemed that he was already annoyed that Mal could sneak up on him at the companion house in that outrageous get up with the beaded fringe. I've been wondering if Inara's line 'please, spend an hour with him' (I like your "metaphorical hour" - that cracked me up) was to point the viewer to the idea that Mal's already under his skin. The only time he seems to me to be as calm and unemotional as he claims throughout is in his last scene when he tells Mal 'there's nothing left to see'. Otherwise he looks like a phony to me - oh so very polite, pretending serenity while seething underneath. He's pretty quick to point the finger too, like an insecure bully, asking everyone 'do you know what your sin is?' I don't quite have him figured yet, he's a pretty complicated villian. Thanks for starting things down this road, I want to hear what people have to say about this guy.

"Yeah, well, what you plan
and what takes place
ain't ever exactly been similar." -Jayne

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Monday, October 10, 2005 10:40 PM

ALEAFINTHEWIND

Quote:
Originally posted by teraph:
(It's nearing the end of spending an hour with Mal like Inara suggests -- only this has been more of a metaphorical hour. We see more of this when he freaks out about how someone should fire on the Reavers, and then when he shoots Mal in the back, Mal asks if he's made the Operative angry -- which he probably has.)

I agree as I said in My post above, the relationship between Mal and The Operative is amazing. It is underlined for me in the scene on the Alliance ship bridge where the operative said "We should have settled this like men, not with fire." you can see the disappointment in his eyes, that he was not going to get to meet Mal face to face.

although when he says "You should have let me see her..." I sat there and thought "but she would have kicked your ass dude.."

This aside.. Taking you "Reavers" comment into focus.. I think this underlines something about the Operative that we've thus far over looked, he says to Mal "You can't make me angry" but it turns out.. that you can make him SCARED.. I think that is why he freaks out. Reavers are Scary pieces of work.

And I think that Mal actually gets under the Operatives skin in another way.. The operative at the point that he sees Serenity and the Reavers, realizes at that point that Mal is also, in essence, an operative. The Operative himself believes in the alliance, Mal is an operative for Freedom and independence. and I think that intimidates The Operative on some level.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 11:09 PM

WASURERA

The entry sequence at the beginning of the movie, the Reaver Army (drawing them out AND the battle--as my brother says, there's nothing like pitting space derelects against a well trained army and having the derelects win), the River Kicking Reaver Ass scene, and the exit sequence. <3

Also, I noticed that the newsclips in the background when they walk into the Maidenhead are about the town that just got sacked by Reavers--the only survivors hid in a vault. XD

Also,
"It was the Pax that killed them." <3 Whedon for his use of latin to make a truely ironic line.
(Er, for those who don't know, Pax means Peace in Latin.)

"I'm so hip I can't see over my pelvis!"

http://home.comcast.net/~aethercitystudios/index.html

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Tuesday, October 11, 2005 12:41 AM

NEODOUG1

There was only one bit of the film that I REALLY liked... It the bit that started about 5 seconds before the Universal logo morphed into the evacuation of Earth-That-Was, through to the bit where the credits finished! In fact, the fisrt time i saw the film was 3 weeks ago, and I'm still suffering from the "shock and awe" now!

The film was FAR darker than I expected, but that doesn't make it any less excellent!

Can't wait for the DVD...!

A bit of an animal... but which bit?!?

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Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:12 AM

SHINYHAPPYKLIN

Quote:
Originally posted by NeoDoug1:
There was only one bit of the film that I REALLY liked... It the bit that started about 5 seconds before the Universal logo morphed into the evacuation of Earth-That-Was, through to the bit where the credits finished! /B]

You betcha.....the whole BDMovie was a thrill ride!

But I absolutely adore the final scene of Serenity rising up through the storm to space....OMG....the music is perfect, and coming on the heels of Mal's "love" speech.....(((SNIFF!!!)))....and then, the perfect touch of Firefly goofyness....the panel flying off, and Mal's "what was that?" as the ending shot......Hi-larious!!!!

Christ, I'm getting chills just replaying that in my mind....and here I thought 5 times would be enough to see this for awhile....I'm now jonesing to see it again!!!

"We gotta go to that crappy town where I'M a hero..."
Shiny stuff for Browncoats at: http://www.cafepress.com/outtotheblack

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Friday, October 14, 2005 2:48 PM

MOHRSTOUTBEARD

This is something I just read in the Visual Companion, and it almost brings a tear to my eye. I haven't seen anybody else mention it, and I'm just dying to share it:

Quote:
Adam - this man brings more questions and more business than anybody south of Tony Head (Giles on Buffy). He wanted to give Shepherd Book cigars. Observing that the script says, "Shepherd Book is smoking a cigar," he asked, "Can I bring him a cigar as a present and then can I be smoking that cigar later, because I'm thinking about him?"

I always thought that Jayne smoking the cigar at the funeral was just him being his usual gruff self, but, man. . .now it's really touching.

------------------
"Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over."

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Friday, October 14, 2005 4:41 PM

WINGEDVALKYRIE

The movie was awsome. I'd love to just watch it again.
Though i thought that it was soo intense. with all the reavers and the battlescenes.
Is it just me or did that battle between the allance ships and the reavers look like the intro battle in Star Wars Episode 3?
though i have to say that it wasn't what i expected. I though it would be more like firefly, slower paced and all. at least it wasn't like out of gas, that episode bugged me (and pained me!) They were a little harsh on poor serenity though. reaverifying her then crashing her! The wash died! why did he have to die?

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