Give Up Now (And Avoid The Rush). by RocketJock

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Give Up Now (And Avoid The Rush).

POSTED BY: ROCKETJOCK
UPDATED: Thursday, October 13, 2005 06:49
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 9125
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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 9:30 AM

Folks, I think it's time we got realistic, and faced facts: Fox has cancelled the show, and there's nothing we can do but resign ourselves. After all, it's not as if they put out box sets of shows cancelled mid-season--

Eh? What's that?
Oh. They did? Really?
Um.

Well, then buy your copy fast; it's not as if this obscure little box set is going to be a best seller--

Huh? What? Amazon's top ten? How many weeks?
Ummm...

Look, this is all well and good, but we can't live in a dreamworld. These thirteen episodes are the end of the line. All this talk about a revival, even a theatrical feature, are nothing but castles in the air. It's high time to give up false hopes and--

Grr. What now?
Oh. In theaters you say.
Ah. And, ah, is it a runaway hit?

No? AHA! That's it! If it isn't a runaway Star Wars style overhyped blockbuster hit right out of the gate, then it's all done, poof, Game Over Man! Absolute proof that we need to surrender now, Now, NOW!...

Y'know, I'm beginning to think that none of you are listening...

"What was that?" -- Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 9:51 AM

HEB

Select to view spoiler:

Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

Firefly'll keep flying in some format as long as Joss and the browncoats keep her in the air.

...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:15 AM

PSYCHICRIVER

Hee! Thanks for this!

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."

"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

"I love Matt, he's great!!" Summer Glau, re me!

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:18 AM

GATORMARC

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:

These thirteen episodes are the end of the line.

Sweet. I got a bonus episode on my discs :)

GatorMarc

Eat 'em up, chomp, chomp.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:33 AM

SMAUG

You know.. one of the problems I am having in getting people interested in seeing the movie is everyone's "Eh.. whatever" attitude.

I mean.. I NEVER point blank tell people accross the board that they MUST see this movie or that. No mater how much I personally loved it. I only tell friends/coworkers and such that I saw a movie I really liked/loved or whatever.. and if they show interest in it and ask anything about it.. I might tell them a little bit about it and why I loved it. If they check it out.. great .. if not.. oh well.

Only if I bleieve said person would enjoy a particular type of movie might I say to that one or two people.. "yea.. you should check it out. I think you will like it." Serenity is the first movie in a VERY long time that I have told everyone I run acrross that they HAVE to see it unfortunally which isn't too many people

But the response I am getting.. EVEN from people that I know at the very very very least would really enjoy the movie.. even after reading a few of the glowing reviews (from critics and fans), not to mention my personal kick in the butt is "Eh.. maybe I will check it out". Which basically means they won't. Or actually I know what will happen.. I know they will rent it when it comes out on DVD in 6-8 months.. and then they will come to me and go.. "Oh man.. you were right.. that was AWSOME!!!" To which I will reply.. "That's why I told you to go see it in the theater 6 months ago you stupid )#(*$*&#(%&"

It's so frustrating

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:52 AM

EMBERS

this is the thing...
it ISN'T necessary for us to make this an over-night sensation...
it would be nice to keep it in theaters as long as possible,
and it will certainly help if it has a healthy run over-seas,
but the DVD sales could be the deciding factor on a sequel
(if the sales far out-strip 'Firefly' sales then that would show that the franchise has legs,
and that more of the general public are interested)

at the very least, we'll get more comics!

(thanks, RocketJock, for the reminders!)

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:54 AM

ENGINEANGEL

LOL x 1,000,000

that was great!!!

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:00 AM

LIMINALOSITY

Never give up, never surrender!

Didn't I just read about a Serenity DVD release in December? The studios must be making beaucoup from DVD sales, or they wouldn't keep moving the DVD release date closer and closer to the theatrical premiere. There's also some kind of pretzel logic master/slave contract stuff between theaters and studios for the first few weeks of a run. If there's anybody out there that knows about these things, enlighten I, please.

"Don't you just love this party? Everything's so fancy, and there's some kind of hot cheese over there." -Kaylee

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:37 AM

STAKETHELURK

I’m sure as hell not going to lay down arms.

Although DVD may be our ultimate savior in all this (Joss was actually mentioning it months before the release), I still feel we need to focus as much as we can on the box office right now. The more people see it, the less money the DVDs will have to make up and the more customers there will be when DVDs come out.

I’ve had to keep prodding people (gently) to go see it, because many of those I urged to see it opening weekend didn’t go, for a variety of reasons. So, don’t just talk it up to folks you haven’t spoken with before (though please do that, too), but check with people who actually seemed interested and make sure they’ve gone or will go this weekend.

So, the DVDs may well come riding to the rescue, but right now let’s concentrate on the battle at hand.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:47 AM

INEVITABLEBETRAYAL

Quote:
Originally posted by heb:
[B'fore she keens

Off topic, but damned if this isn't really starting to bug me.

Keen: 1) having a fine edge or point; 2) showing quick or ardent response; 3) intellectually alert; 4) to make a mournful sound.

Keel: 1) to fall as if in a faint; 2) to heel or lean precariously.

Now. If she's hurting, what is the logical next thing? To have a fine edge or point? To show a quick or ardent response? To become intellectually alert? The mournful sound thing, I can maybe see, but that still doesn't really make sense of the quote.

Or is it more likely that the Captain said, "keel" as in fall or lean precariously (as a broken ship might do if it isn't repaired)?

_______________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:54 AM

SOUPCATCHER

I go with number 4 myself. The wailing lamentation thing. (reread as, "Love let's you know she's hurting before she complains.")

Oh, and loved the original post.

* edited to remove some keening of my own. And to change my post slightly since I read yours too fast.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:58 AM

HEB

I'm pretty sure he says keens and that's confirmed in the visual companion.

He could mean keen in the context 'to express grief verbally' ie. tell you she;s hurting (not sure if that fits) or to hurt in a similar usaage to it's sharp usage.

...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:58 AM

SPINLAND

Wailing lament; as in, when Kaylee says Serenity talks to her, tells her when something's wrong.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"That's what governments are for, [to] get in a man's way." -- Malcolm Reynolds

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:02 PM

DREAMTROVE

Get people hooked on the show. I think it's far more addictive than a movie can be. If they end up buying a collection that's $34 and probably another $12 if they buy the movie when it comes out on DVD.

I've had excellent luck making buffy addicts out of everyone from high school kids to grandmothers. Firefly also. Joss is addictive. Like crack cocaine or something. I don't know, never experienced crack, but that's not the point.

[WARNING - OFFENSIVE TROLL LANGUAGE AHEAD]

I just want to take a moment to slam the star wars trolls, because before coming here i was spending all my time on the IMDb boards, and they were slamming us constantly. Well here it is.

I saw Star Wars. It was the first film I ever saw. It was great. It kicked ass. Then I saw Empire. That was awesome. Then I saw Jedi. It was cheezy. Leia's outfit was hot, but the film was cheezy.

Luke was annoying and so was Leia, and even Han. Three movies and my favorite character was either a gay robot or bigfoot. But still, it was a lot of fun. Then I met the star wars freaks. They played battlegames with ships, which I can see.

Then they dressed up as Boba Fett for Halloween. Then they did it NOT on Halloween. Boba Fett. Who is Boba Fett? Oh yeah the bounty hunter.

"Boba Fett is the best man. He's the most awesome character!"

Excuse me but character? Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't this guy get like one line in three movies? Something like that. Anyway. I come off thinking the films fans pumped out their cerebral fluid and replaced it with a mix of antifreeze and drano.

Now I see Episode I. Amidala is Natalie, who is hot. Jarjar grates. Aniken is a twit. But it doesn't suck. Except for the obvious promotional pod race scene. This says "hey we've already made the video game to this, and now here comes an ad for it in the middle of the movie." It's not about to make me walk out, but only because it has cool special effects. Not because there's a story left.

Now there's a new so what bad guy - Darth Maul, aka Toad. He gets one line. He isn't all that tough to kill. But he looks cool. I liked his double lightsaber thing. But now antifreeze-drano-heads are emulating this one liner? I begin to think they are also snorting coca cola. Or glue.

The I see Ep. 2. Aniken is more of a twit that he used to be. Natalie is still Natalie, unaging. The film is tollerable. Then I see Ep 3. The dialogue, written by lucas himself, is amazingly amazingly bad, Natalie's Leia hair is almost worse. The best party of this movie is watching the cardboard characters get chopped into little pieces.

So, star wars fans. I enjoyed those movies. Yes, all six of them. Even the really bad one. Or one. But the reall really bad one. But they were a lot of fun. But what is there to obsess over? I mean I cannot see that there are really characters in this story? Archetypes maybe.

I mean the trekkies were somewhat offputting about their identification with completely flat and sterile characters, but at least those character did exist, they weren't some fan concocted fantasy based on one fairly meaningless line.

[END OFFENSIVE TROLL LANGUAGE]

So that's it. Trolls will be troll, and I had to vent somewhere where they could not track me down and kill me. That's all.

I'm going to kill them all. That oughtta distract 'em.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:08 PM

STAKETHELURK

Quote:
Get people hooked on the show. I think it's far more addictive than a movie can be. If they end up buying a collection that's $34 and probably another $12 if they buy the movie when it comes out on DVD.

I agree, the show is the best way to recruit people, but it works a tad slow and we need butts in the theaters NOW. We should use "Firefly" as a major recruiting tool a bit later, to prep for the BDM's DVD release.

But, I want point this out for people who might not know: Money spent towards the "Firefly" DVD does not go to Universal. At this point, they probably aren't even paying attention to the increasing DVD sales, because it's not a source of income for them. So that $34, not matter how well spent, is not going to the people who will decide whether to make a sequel or not.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:23 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by GatorMarc:
Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:

These thirteen episodes are the end of the line.

Sweet. I got a bonus episode on my discs :)

GatorMarc

Eat 'em up, chomp, chomp.

Sorry dude. Serenity Pts I & II only counts as one episode.

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:38 PM

BJAY

Well i sure as hell aint given up. If living in a dreamworld can get firefly on the big screen then maybe it can get firefly back on air. Well it looks like im going to be living in a dreamworld. I dont care if this movie ends up being the next geli im still going to do what ever it takes to convince someone to put firefly back on the air. But hes got a good point guys, I guess ill just give up and let the show i love so much Die. Na im going to be with this show to the bitter end.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:44 PM

STRANGEONE

Quote:
But, I want point this out for people who might not know: Money spent towards the "Firefly" DVD does not go to Universal. At this point, they probably aren't even paying attention to the increasing DVD sales, because it's not a source of income for them. So that $34, not matter how well spent, is not going to the people who will decide whether to make a sequel or not.

Yes, this is true, however, also important, sales of Firefly BoxSets are something to point to if one wishes to encourage a network, like say, SciFi, to make new episodes. Pointing out the fact that it's selling more box sets longer than SciFi's SG-1 Season 8 seems like it should make a good point for bringing back a TV series. (not sure on this point, anyone got hard numbers) Which is something SciFi should already start considing, as I don't think SG-1 will be around much longer, and they'll need a good anchor for Friday nights. (9 seasons, I think it's just about run it's course.)

Hmmmm.... Choice... Support new tv series or sequel. The correct answer is, of course, BOTH!! :) though if it comes down to it, I'd pick a new TV series over a sequal, cause, IMHO, a tv show seems a better format for it.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 1:49 PM

CLJOHNSTON108

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Then they dressed up as Boba Fett for Halloween. Then they did it NOT on Halloween. Boba Fett. Who is Boba Fett? Oh yeah the bounty hunter.

"Boba Fett is the best man. He's the most awesome character!"

Excuse me but character? Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't this guy get like one line in three movies? Something like that.

The funny irony about Boba Fett is that he originated in the animated sequence of the dreaded "Star Wars Holiday Special", which I'm ashamed to admit was produced and the music arranged by several friends of my Dad (who was a TV set designer (although he wasn't involved in the "production", thank the stars!))

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:05 PM

DREAMTROVE

But it's not going to help anyone if we move an entire people who's favorite films are Honey, Gigli, Glitter and From Justin to Kelly over to a theater to see Serenity, and then they go on to IMDb and trash it. There are many ways to convince people that the following is large.

If the DVD sold a million copies

What if they gave a convention and 200,000 people showed up.

Like for instance, what if you had an online community with 5 million members. That would be a selling point.

If every vampire who said he was at the crucifiction were actually there, it would've been like woodstock.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:14 PM

DREAMTROVE

CLJ - no reason to be ashamed of star wars production, it's an awesome production. The only person who should be a little ashamed is lucas for his arrogance that he can write better than his writers, and the star wars heads who go and blast everyone else into oblivion for liking something else. I didn't see the holiday special.

Anwyay

The number one goal has to be to win new converts. True addicts. People who want to have sex with River. Um no, sorry, that just slipped out. People who can't live without their Joss. People like me who have everything he ever does on DVD, which probably includes all of your.

It will spread like a disease until every intelligent mind is infected. It's happened with buffy. More that 1/2 the buffy fans I know never saw a single ep until after it was cancelled. And I know a lot of fans.

I got another one of my friends to watch it today, lent him my DVDs and then pinged his computer endlessly until he got off and started watching. I think he's hooked.

It doesn't matter, the hair will still be there.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:35 PM

CLJOHNSTON108

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
CLJ - no reason to be ashamed of star wars production, it's an awesome production. The only person who should be a little ashamed is lucas for his arrogance that he can write better than his writers, and the star wars heads who go and blast everyone else into oblivion for liking something else. I didn't see the holiday special.

http://www.starwarsholidayspecial.com/
http://www.stomptokyo.com/movies/star-wars-holiday-special.html
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0193524/
http://www.ohthehumanity.com/review.php3?ID=411
http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/tv/feature/2000/12/05/star_wars_tv/?sid
=1000756
http://www.lucasfan.com/swtv/index2.html

Rita Scott and Ken & Mitzie Welch were my Dad's pals (and my Dad had done a LOT of work for Smith/Hemion Productions).

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:41 PM

LADYBLUE

Sorry Dude - there are 14 Firefly eps.

1) Serenity - Parts 1&2
2) The Train Job
3) Bushwacked
4) Shindig
5) Safe
6) Our Mrs. Reynolds
7) Jaynestown
8) Out of Gas
9) Ariel
10) War Stories
11) Trash
12) The Message
13) Heart of Gold
14) Objects in Space

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:50 PM

MOOSE

You listed "Out of Gas" twice.

Just kidding...Yep, 14 eps total.

11 aired on FOX, 3 more released on the DVD set.

As for giving up....NO!

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 3:14 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Oops.

Umm; don't suppose I could pass this off as being a deliberate mistake in the spirit of the rest of my original post...

Nah, didn't think so.

"One, two, five..." -- Arthur, Rex

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:21 PM

CALLIOPE79

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
Ah. And, ah, is it a runaway hit?

No? AHA! That's it! If it isn't a runaway Star Wars style overhyped blockbuster hit right out of the gate, then it's all done, poof, Game Over Man! Absolute proof that we need to surrender now, Now, NOW!...

Y'know, I'm beginning to think that none of you are listening...

Damn straight we aren't listening!!

I've loved shows before, but Firefly is 'the One'. I've never cared more about the characters, the universe they live in, or been as vocal a fan as I am now... to the point that I've been called a geek fairly often in the recent past (which I don't take offense to at all)! I didn't give up on Firefly before and I'm certainly not giving up on Serenity now. Browncoats don't lay down without a good, honest fight... and even then, they never let go

~*~ Cheryl
The Nathan Fillion Archives:
http://www.apocalypse-monthly.com/nathan
CafePress Shops:
http://www.cafepress.com/ffserenityflan
http://www.cafepress.com/nfarchives

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:31 PM

TRACE

Speaking as a relatively new browncoat, and all around SciFi fan... I think there might be a chance for Firefly. SciFi picked up the show on it's Friday Night Prime run (thats how I first saw Firefly, fell in love within watching Serenity part 1&2). Scifi channel has been known for reviving and running many series that probably wouldn't have lasted as long anywhere else (al la Farscape anyone?).

But as it has been repeated on this thread, it's getting numbers to start going for the series. I ended up helping bring in two more people into the series, one through the 11 hour scifi marathon (my box set wasn't in yet, thank you SciFi) and one through the movie. And every day I'm telling more people about watching the movie while it's out, and four of us are talking to groups of people to try to have a massive firefly marathon. If nothing else, it gives a bunch of us college students to do one weekend, and possibly make the fanbase grow.

Quote:

Ah. And, ah, is it a runaway hit?

No? AHA! That's it! If it isn't a runaway Star Wars style overhyped blockbuster hit right out of the gate, then it's all done, poof, Game Over Man! Absolute proof that we need to surrender now, Now, NOW!...

Plus, as someone I was telling about the movie to mentioned, Serenity/Firefly sounded like Star Wars when it FIRST came out... it began a small fan base, that grew to epic proportions. So really, when Star Wars first came out, it didn't hit right out of the gates, just a group of people hung onto three movies with a passion that led to becoming one of the biggest fanbases around.

So the lesson here, if we try to keep it afloat instead of allowing the boat to sink, there might be a chance that this could be the little Firefly that could.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:41 PM

DREAMTROVE

CLJ:

Good God. This isn't a hoax, is it? Does MST3K know about this? Where can I get a copy? I see amazon has space for a listing but there are none for sale. I'm not a huge fan, a passive observer of the once great, well okay. I wasn't called when the remaster baited out all the star wars junkies. But I'm game for the old rotten tomato fest. It's always fun to pop in a Troma Team movie or Full Moon, and comment all the way through. I used to throw Mst4k parties where we would Mst3k stuff. Anyway, this looks perfect for it.

Anyway, I'm sure productionwise it will be fine. I can imagine though, CBS holiday specials crossed with lucas dialog? It's got to be like Roger Corman doing Mr. Rogers.

I'll put on the Star Wars Holiday Special. That oughtta distract 'em.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:47 PM

SIGGGY

I think they release DVDs quickly to hit whilst the cinema marketing is still in people's minds and they don't need to re-advertise as much to re bulid awareness. The release date near Christmas is the best time as then many get sent out or bought as presents, before everyone hurting from emptying their pockets and credit stops bying post Cristms. I can't wait for the DVD but nothing beats seeing this type of movie on the big screen. Love Star Wars too if thats relevant.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:51 PM

GGIII

Hopefully Scifi will pick Firefly up. As was posted earlier, they're going to need a new staple show since SG1 is breathing it's last (I'll be sad to see you go, SG1, but it's time to say goodbye.) and SG:A is... dissapointing.

Only time will tell. I just hope the Fox execs are meeting an Operative or two as we speak.

__________________
You can't take the sky from me.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:58 PM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
CLJ:

Good God. This isn't a hoax, is it? Does MST3K know about this? Where can I get a copy? I see amazon has space for a listing but there are none for sale. I'm not a huge fan, a passive observer of the once great, well okay. I wasn't called when the remaster baited out all the star wars junkies. But I'm game for the old rotten tomato fest. It's always fun to pop in a Troma Team movie or Full Moon, and comment all the way through. I used to throw Mst4k parties where we would Mst3k stuff. Anyway, this looks perfect for it.

Anyway, I'm sure productionwise it will be fine. I can imagine though, CBS holiday specials crossed with lucas dialog? It's got to be like Roger Corman doing Mr. Rogers.

I'll put on the Star Wars Holiday Special. That oughtta distract 'em.

I like bad movies quite a lot. I see them regularly and with great glee. But 30 minutes of wookiee dialogue is hard for even me to take. The only reason people spread the word is because misery loves company. And that's a damn lot of misery. Seriously, don't try to watch it alone (and if you do, hide the guns and sleeping pills first).

...and back to Firefly.

Whenever I count, I come up thirteen, and get confused. Always turns out I've forgotten Heart of Gold. ...Couldn't be coincidence, now could it? Bleh. The one mediocre episode of a series of brilliance. A series that has made such a fangirl of me. I have costumes, is all I'm saying. And blue gloves.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:20 PM

EDISON

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
before coming here i was spending all my time on the IMDb boards, and they were slamming us constantly...

Why would the Star Wars folk want to slam us? Between now and the time that the TV series premieres, what the heck have they got better to do than see Serenity?

The biggest Star Wars fan I know (she's got action figures and X-wing fighters hanging off her monitor at work) saw Serenity and her emailed response was, "I saw it Sunday!!! OMG!!!!! It's GREAT! YOW!"

There is Another:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/sunroomitem.asp?i=4960

Edison

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:23 PM

DREAMTROVE

BTW, I recognize the wookies from ep. 3

As I have posted before, Sci-Fi picking it up is really about the last ditch. They have a proven record of wreaking havoc on everything they touch.

I know people are angry with FOX, but fox is the best chance. It would be like worlds better to be on fox, from a budget perspective, a non-interference perspective, and a regular channel and not niche-cable perspective.

Has anyone else noticed a serious decay in things like SG1 as they move from SHO or other places to Sci-fi?

I say this again, and I say it as someone who was a devoted follower of the sci-fi channel and watched them ruin and then cancel every show I ever loved one after another.

I wish that there were a decent Sci-Fi channel, but Bonnie Hammer has made it very clear what she thinks of geeks, ie., freaks and losers, many times. Her idea of science fiction is psychics and ghost stories.

Joss said his best experience was with WB who almost never interfered at all.

I mean did any ever watch sliders? Okay, it was a flawed show, it was no firefly by any stretch, but it was fun to watch. What sci-fi did to it? Unthinkable. They trashed sg1, they wrecked outer limits, they have the minus touch.

Let me fast forward for you to Firefly, the Sci-Fi original series:

Gina is pulled. We replace her with Whoopi Goldberg. Inexplicably, the character is still named Zoe.

River is no longer an assassin, but just a pychic, and now she has a host of psychic abilities not before discovered but common to fortune tellers.

Simon Disappears. No explanation is given.

Cap'n Mal is removed, and Cap'n Jane played by claudia black (no offense to claudia) come in to replace him, rather than promotion from within.

The new Aim-to-misbehave directive is interpretted as an abandonment of the we're-all-just-a-bunch-of-crooks paradigm, and the new picture which emerges is one of paragons of virtue exerting their moral superiority via a holy mission of redemption while pontificating.

... okay. So it wouldn't be this bad because Joss would still be there, we assume. But this is what he would be up against.

I loved claudia black and ben browder on farscape, don't get me wrong, but they were no replacement for jack o'neill and samantha carter. The new SG1 isn't terrible, which is a credit to the producers of the show, but it certainly isn't a step up.

And by the way - Stargate Atlantis is terrible. I only saw one episode, admittedly, but it was worse than star trek old generation "Arena." You know the one with the Gorn and the God and the fist fight, the one often cited as "worst episode of a sci fi show ever." So even if I was seeing the worst ep of SG atlantis, it was a disaster.

I don't even remember who the replacements on sliders were but they were terrible.

The Sci-Fi channel meddles extremely heavily where it's nose doesn't belong, and these people are mainstream marketers, and most of all, and guys this is extremely important, they are corner cutters.

Bonnie Hammer is a one trick pony, and her trick is to go into networks and increase profits by lowering costs.

Lowering costs means cheapening production. If one day Summer feels she needs more cash, sci fi will just pull her and replace her with someone who will be a psychic for less.

If Joss says he wants 1000 people on his staff, they'll offer to pay for 500.

If someone is absolutely sure this is not the case, present your case. Because I keep seeing people posting this "I hope sci-fi picks it up." Well I've seen sci-fi pick things up a number of times now.

It's not a pretty picture, but I'm willing to wait an extra year if I could get WB to pick it up with their hands-off approach. Joss can make a materpiece if given free reign, I don't know if it can be done with budget cuts and someone breathing down your back.

Now imaging joss does this, and meanwhile sci-fi hires roger corman to direct a spin off call Firefly Alliance that takes place on an alliance planet and stars david caruso, tori spelling and maybe one or two of the firefly crew taken from the other show to "double up."

Can y'all see the possibilities where this could go awry?

First choice I think has to be to have Firefly back on Fox, or on WB or UPN.

Questions? Comments?

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:56 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
Quote:
Get people hooked on the show. I think it's far more addictive than a movie can be. If they end up buying a collection that's $34 and probably another $12 if they buy the movie when it comes out on DVD.
I agree, the show is the best way to recruit people, but it works a tad slow and we need butts in the theaters NOW. We should use "Firefly" as a major recruiting tool a bit later, to prep for the BDM's DVD release.

But, I want point this out for people who might not know: Money spent towards the "Firefly" DVD does not go to Universal. At this point, they probably aren't even paying attention to the increasing DVD sales, because it's not a source of income for them. So that $34, not matter how well spent, is not going to the people who will decide whether to make a sequel or not.

Ah! He comprehends the intricate relationships between studios and DVD sales. I didn't mean to say don't go more, go more bring more people into the fold! (I know there's an SG-1 reference in there somewhere.) I went again this aft and brought more newbs who loved it, and will I go again before the weekend's out. What I really meant was, after we've done all we can to have it stay as long as possible in theaters (Christmas?), won't sequel possibilities be improved by DVD sales, especially if the DVD is released before Christmas?

Wish I knew how to add multiple quotes, but I don't...yet, please forgive my ignorance.

Also, to Dreamtrove: loved your Star Wars lament! I think Serenity is better than any SW, but it started out well. Do you know Angel? There was an episode where Gunn refers to Wesley and Cordy as 'C3PO and Stick Figue Barbie' hoot hoot.
The speeder chase through the redwoods was my favorite movie chase scene till the mule being chased by the Reavers. Honestly, I've brought the same chocolate bar to 2 different showings, and it's still in my jacket pocket. The first time I laughed, now I'm thinking how to find a way to send it to Joss, cuz I've never forgotten about the chocolate.
I posted today in a thread 'cult film status' about something that happened in the theater when I saw Star Wars (the original) on opening night, if you're interested.

'Bright 'n shiny captain, not to fret.' -Kaylee

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 6:22 PM

DREAMTROVE

Shiny.

Well sure, I get that, on the other hand, no sequel. Joss hates making movies. He's said it a dozen times. He doesn't really hate it of course, he just means he prefers television. So if it were up to him it'll be a show.

To that end, yeah universal is getting zip, sure, but fox is cashing in, and since, regardless of where Joss shows run, Fox has always been his production company, which means it is Fox who will determine whether or not Joss gets more money to play with.

Ah Hah. Now the plot thickens. So sure, go ahead and give money to Universal in our great gratitude for this movie, because they rightly deserve it. But don't forget also to let Fox know that Joss is a long term money maker and therefore giving him money to play with is a good idea.

Now, as to Angel, yeah I know it. It's the less Jossie show because it's not really run by Joss, it's run by Jeff Bell. The Joss influence is strong in Angel, but it is not strictly speaking "a Joss show" in the way that Buffy (1-6) or Firefly are. I say Buffy (1-6) because de facto Buffy (7) is Marti Noxon at the wheel.

Funny I had the same experience with the chocolate in pocket, I forgot completely about it.

Star Wars opening night. That were nigh on thirty years ago, well 28. As I said it was the first film I ever saw. I of course at the time thought "Movies rock" and as it turned out, it was the 70s, and movies were going to prove to me that normally they sucked monkey cock. Well, no, that's not fair, but Alien only ran for one night and I missed it.

I'm going to kill them all. That oughtta distract 'em

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 6:31 PM

THEPYRO

Quote:
What I really meant was, after we've done all we can to have it stay as long as possible in theaters (Christmas?)

Im sorry to say this, but there is no way were going to be stay in till Christmas, not unless we get a HUGE boost of new fans. There are some long awaited movies going out between now and then i.e. The new Harry Potter, Narnia.....and many more....so we need alot more people to go see it, im not saying it cant be done, i dont want to play the pessimist, but i will play the voice of logic.....

The Pyro

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 6:47 PM

LIMINALOSITY

I hadn't heard Joss would rather do TV, only that moviemaking turned out to be much more work than he thought. Well, he should get whatever he darn well wants, whatever we need to do to get him there.

Firefly best, every episode is just grand, then Buffy seasons esp 5-6, the Lover's Walk/Bad Willow tangent from season 3, Hush & A New Man from season 4. Angel's my runner-up, but there are some fine fine things about Angel.

You had a chocolate event? I wonder how common this has been. It was gripping all the way through, but still, chocolate!

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 7:12 PM

DREAMTROVE

Joss has made many movies before. As a writer, Buffy, Alien 4, Atlantis, Titan AE, but this is his first role as Director as well.

Anyway, previously he has spent much time how much he vastly prefers the format of television as a creative venue.

Also lately he's been talking in terms of a new series, not another movie. Joss thought isn't profit thought. He doesn't view the franchise in a mercenary way the way roddenberry did.

No offense to the trekkies, but this is true. STNG moved to a movie franchise when gene saw the profit potential of it, and so he killed the show himself.

Joss cares more about the story, so he will opt for whatever gives him the most space to tell it. Add it all together and that leans towards a series, rather than a sequel.

My faves are the whole dark willow slide was great. All of season six

Actualy it was 1-2-3 Good, better, best
and then 4-5-6 Good, better, best
and 7 was okay. It had it's high points, but it definitely comes last in the series for me.

Angel has it's moments as well. But Joss not at the helm, it's not the same.

My gut feeling is that Jane Espenson is as good as Joss, as a writer. There are a couple fine single ep people, but it's hard to tell from one ep.

The real high points come in season 3

Band Candy, Dopplegangland, The Wish, BBB.

Season 3 also has faith, which adds a point to everything.

season 4 has it's moments as well.

Scenes with riley are bad. the initiative was a problematic idea, if not an outright flawed one. Scenes with Angel are terrible.

All relative to the show. I'm just thankful that the cast of firefly is so good. There are some actors on buffy/angel who don't add up, and I'm sure Boreanz is a very nice person, I get that, but he isn't as good an actor as the firefly cast.

That said, I enjoyed angel a lot. It has it's moments. As a through story, it doesn't get close to working. The high point is clear wolfram and hart, and the high point of that is lilah morgan.

Serenity just was too distracting, you forget about the chocolate.

I'm going to kill them all. That oughtta distract 'em.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 7:29 PM

STAKETHELURK

Quote:
No offense to the trekkies, but this is true. STNG moved to a movie franchise when gene saw the profit potential of it, and so he killed the show himself.

Um... Not to nitpick, but wasn't he kinda... dead by then?

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 7:39 PM

DREAMTROVE

Ah, you are so right. For some reason I was thinking STNG died in '87, it started in '87 which means it died in '94, and roddenberry would be dead. my bad. I guess that move should have been accreditted to rick berman then.

He looks better in red.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 8:54 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Joss has made many movies before. As a writer, Buffy, Alien 4, Atlantis, Titan AE, but this is his first role as Director as well.

Joss thought isn't profit thought. He doesn't view the franchise in a mercenary way the way roddenberry did.

Joss cares more about the story, so he will opt for whatever gives him the most space to tell it. Add it all together and that leans towards a series, rather than a sequel.

My gut feeling is that Jane Espenson is as good as Joss, as a writer. There are a couple fine single ep people, but it's hard to tell from one ep.

The real high points come in season 3
Band Candy, Dopplegangland, The Wish, BBB.

Scenes with riley are bad. the initiative was a problematic idea, if not an outright flawed one. Scenes with Angel are terrible.

All relative to the show.

That said, I enjoyed angel a lot. It has it's moments. As a through story, it doesn't get close to working. The high point is clear wolfram and hart, and the high point of that is lilah morgan.

Serenity just was too distracting, you forget about the chocolate.

I'm going to kill them all. That oughtta distract 'em.

Yeah, I've seen all of the movies as well and liked Titan AE very much and enjoyed Atlantis as well. There were thing about Alienseses that I liked (the actor who's on CSI now could shoot, mm mmm mmm, and I enjoyed the tension between reimagined Ripley and Call the little plastic priest.The reason I came late to all of this (started watching Buffy sporadically in broadcast during season 6) was because I wasn't crazy about the movie version when I saw it. In fact I should watch it again now, I might revise my op.

I very much appreciate that Joss is all about the story as heart and community as a trajectory to a better place for anyone paying attention to the work. I've heard about the Shakespeare readings (the greatest writer in the language in my opinion), and read posts and interviews about how he has to go to the local when on tour to be with his peeps. In the ticket line today, I heard a woman behind me saying "you can't talk someone into being a better person". I think you do it with good thick stories.

I like Jane too. Liked Finding Serenity very much. The essays were mostly very insightful, and the writers as enthusiastic as the people here.

Drat, we are a fraking freaking frelling cult.

No, it's a healthy social interaction with people who share your enthusiasms.

Riley, not my favorite. I thought the best thing about the Initiative was that they chipped Spike so his character arc could implode and reform, and there were some funny funny things about helpless Spike evading the Initiative (hiding out at Giles' and Zander's basement while Zander and Anya fallinlust, pimping himself for groceries and cigarettes, hot sauce, wheat-a-bix and what all in the blood out of a cup that says kiss the librarian OMG the tears from laughing so hard.

In fact, except for Glory and the Supervillans, I usually enjoyed the day to day villains much more than the ubervillians.

Angel was definitely second best for me, although I can tell I liked it better than you did. I thought the villians in Angel were secondary to the effects of tension, distortion and destruction Champion status had on our heros.

I kind of hope Joss has a chance to do something with Marsters, I think he's wonderful.

"Do I have any special powers? Like setting things on fire with my sizzling eye beams?" -Giles

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Thursday, October 13, 2005 3:35 AM

STRANGEONE

Quote:
....Can y'all see the possibilities where this could go awry?

First choice I think has to be to have Firefly back on Fox, or on WB or UPN.

I'll agree from the above post that SciFi isn't the best place. but I think it's the most likely as Universal owns SciFi.

I feel WB would be best, but would they/can they be persuaded to pick this up from fox/universal?

would Fox play nice they picked it up again? not sure.

IMHO, the best places for a new series would be: WB, UPN, Sci-Fi, Fox, in that order.

In any case, if it is picked up again, they'll most like name it 'Serenity' instead of 'Firefly'. It sounds like it would be a catchyer name. :)

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Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:49 AM

XEROGRAVITY

I'm a lifelong fan of Star Wars and Star Trek. I also am of the opinion that both have been trashed.

Loved the first 3 Star Wars movies... when I was a kid, I spent hours standing in line for repeat viewings. Eagerly awaited Empire and Jedi to come out. Loved it all. Collected all the action figures and plastic space ships, etc. (before your trolls fire up the flamethrower, I was still a kid).

It was original, it blended into one movie multiple genres thought to be exhausted, and it was the first time anyone had seen realistic special effects for space ships, space battles, etc. It was brilliant. But alas...

Lucas waited way too long to wrap up the final 3 movies, wrote them and rewrote them over and over until he lost his creative edge IMHO. Didn't hate the final 3 movies, but didn't love'em either. As Dreamtrove said, aside from the special effects, none of it was compelling (bad dialog, weak storylines, etc.). Bottom line... it's all commercial. How much money can Lucas make? Never mind telling a story... just milk the cow for all you can get.

I grew up on the original Trek. Of course the special effects were cheesy, but it was original for it's time. Bunch of oddball characters exploring space ~ Kirk (who had to hook up with some alien babe every episode, but not until tearing his shirt in a fight and showing a little flesh for the ladies), Spock (patron saint of every technical nerd who ever owned a pocket protector), and McCoy (the affable cynic who grumbles at everything and prolly has a drinking problem). The trio with an onscreen chemistry that endeared them to fans.

I could go down the list describing the rest of the cast but you get the idea. Flawed characters but believable. Plus a black woman as a deck officer and a navigator with a russian accent... very controversial given the politics of the day. Roddenberry dreamt of a peaceful future where humans stopped fighting each other and started pioneering deep space exploration. You had to be half nerd, half hippy to love it. Brilliant.

ST spawned Next Gen, DS9, and Voyager ~ most of which were equally amazing. Loved it all. Well, most of it. Trek definately took a major nose dive when Roddenberry died and they started producing WAY TOO MANY cheesy movies.

They had one last chance to keep the fanbase loyal and the Trek canon alive when they came out with Enterprise. Unfortunately, Berman and Braga were now in complete control of the creative reigns (one of whom is on record as hating "trekkies" and Star Trek in general). The braindead duo shut out all the original screen writing talent that made the spinoffs a monstrous success. Here again is a case in point of what Dreamtrove was saying... how moneyhungry execs come in and ruin a good thing. Take control, install your no-talent cronies, and expect the fan base to eat whatever crap you're dishing out to them.

Berman/Braga drove the Trek franchise off a cliff. They opted to reinvent the Star Trek world to fit their vision of things, flying in the face of the fanbase. First 3 seasons all revolved around time travel, and a badly written Jonathon Archer ~ a kinder gentler dumber version of Picard. You can always tell when the creative element behind a series is tapped out. They start fiddling with time travel and temporal anamolies like alternate realities. 3 friggin years of a storyline arc that should have lasted 3-4 eps tops.

After destroying Trek beyond the point of no return, they finally brought in Manny Coto and a few others to write scripts. Season 4 of Enterprise was the very best season of any Trek series ever written. Was too little too late. Berman and Braga inflicted the final cruel act of nastiness by making the single worst episode of Trek ever... the final episode of Enterprise. They had to hijack the screenwriting one last time to vomit on those of us who endured the first 3 years of their atrocious scripts.

Both Trek and SW are collossal icons of SciFi. Both however were ruined. I love Firefly and Serenity. I believe Whedon has the potential to build another Franchise like Roddenberry and Lucas. It's the best damned thing out there since Trek and Wars. It has the same "gotcha" bite that those did in their heyday. Need proof? All you gotta do is lend the FF DVDs to anyone who has an interest in SciFi and they'll be converted. That's how you get butts in the seats in the theatres.

I firmly believe the fate of Firefly is in the hands of the fans. Get them gorram'd DVDs and start loaning em out.

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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