Mal and Religion by Highwayman

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Mal and Religion

POSTED BY: HIGHWAYMAN
UPDATED: Thursday, October 20, 2005 04:28
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3148
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 5:50 AM

Howdy,
I'm new. Well I been lurking for a while but thought what the hell, let's start postin'

Anyhoos, I was wondering what people thought of Mal and religion. We all know he has a slight resentment for Book's teachings. But from watching the first episode back I saw Mal kiss a cross before taking down the ship. Sooooooooooo I'm guessing that Mal lost his faith after the Battle of Serenity.

Made me think when I saw it.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:56 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Highwayman:
Howdy,
I'm new. Well I been lurking for a while but thought what the hell, let's start postin'

Anyhoos, I was wondering what people thought of Mal and religion. We all know he has a slight resentment for Book's teachings. But from watching the first episode back I saw Mal kiss a cross before taking down the ship. Sooooooooooo I'm guessing that Mal lost his faith after the Battle of Serenity.

Made me think when I saw it.

Greetings Highwayman & welcome to the site! Glad to have you aboard.

Yes, in the series pilot episode "Serenity" Mal does indeed kiss a cross after saying a silent prayer. It is obvious that before the call to lay down arms went out, and the suffering that followed, Mal was a religious man. What he had to endure & saw his men endure while they lay dying waiting for extraction in Serenity Valley caused him to lose his faith. If you have the DVD set & watch the deleted scenes from "Serenity" you will see when they spot the med ships Zoe says "Thank God" & Mal replies "Whose colors is He wearing?"

I do not think he "resents" Book's teachings so much as Book's faith reminds Mal of his own faith & the loss of it. Mal found in Serenity Valley that he could only rely on himself & Zoe, feeling that God & faith let him down. Seeing the loss of the bid for independence & the cause he believed in left Mal feeling hollow inside. Seeing Book's faith can only serve as a constant reminder to Mal of all that he lost in Serenity Valley.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:32 AM

SMAUG

Highwayman,

Wow.. deep question..

In short the answer to your question is yes.

In longer more rambling answer:

I will try to be brief.. but IMHO.. I believe that Mal lost WAY more than just his Faith. We see it at the instant he is made aware that their air support is not comming.. and they are being abandoned. When he looks up and sees those alliance ships bearing down.. and wiping them all out. In that very instant.. Mal doesn't just loose his faith.. he dies. The man that he was.. the man that he would become. In that instant he dies.. his very soul dies.. and yes.. loosing his faith is a part of that.. but only a part. From that instant.. he will never be the man he was supposed to be.

From that instant on.. The anger, bitterness and pain begin to eat Mal alive. He no longer "lives" from that point on.. he only "survives". IRL this pain could eat a man alive. In Mal's case.. probably the only thing that keeps that from happening is that they live in a world where you have to stay focused to survive. They don't know where there next payday.. or next meal, etc. is going to come from. It's like having to grow your own food to survive, and sew your own shirt, and build your own house.. etc. etc. This focus needed to survive is probably what keeps the pain from eating him alive.. This is what makes the scars that Mal carries... the pain of what his soul bears. Of course in the series.. and Nathan being such a commedian.. this pain and anger and bitterness is contrasted with lightheartedness, warmth and humor so that the tone of the show doesn't go too dark.

I believe... what will bring Mal back to life.. what will saturate his soul.. and turn all the pain within his soul into pleasure... is Inara. Book may play a smaller part... but ultimatly it is Inara. Yes.. Serenity and the crew keep Mal from going over the edge.. but it is Inara that will bring him back to life. He doesn't just love her... he needs her. Weither he ever feels "alive" again rather than just "surviving" depends upon her. Thus the fate of his soul depends upon her. And it works both ways.. this is the "mystery" that Inara sees in Mal. Many a man has fallen for Inara the companion. But has Inara, in running from whatever it was that made her leave her home world, found in Mal the man who who truely loves and needs Inara... the woman? Do companions typically even believe such a thing exists? This is what impossibly draws her to Mal.. she sees glimpses of the man that she can drop everything.. let down all her guards.. and bear her soul to.. Inara the woman.. and not Inara the companion. Mal is the one she can give up all control to. Inara has left countless men breathless.. but in his true love and need of her.. Inara the woman.. Mal will be the one to leave HER breathless. Mal will not end up in her bed.. she will be in his.. which is exactly where she needs to be.

In the end.. they are both waiting.. Inara is waiting for Mal to claim her as his.. but is still sceptical.. and wants to make sure that waht she sees in Mal is pure and true... Mal is waiting for Inara to quit being a companion... they are both waiting for the other.. but in the end... they both need each other desperatly... to truely live...

So the longer answer to your question is yes... but there is so much more... deepending on how deep you want to look.

Ok.. sorry.. the Romo in me showing..

Smaug..

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:42 AM

PYREFX

wow... you just reduced Serenity to a chick flick... well done.

"I call her Vera."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:16 AM

HIGHWAYMAN

Wow, Smaug, you say I had a deep question. Yours was a deep answer. Lol!

Very well put I must say, and I think I totally agree! But the ultimate question is, will they ever get together???????????? And the other question, what is Inaras' secret?????

Hopefully we will find out..........

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:59 AM

SMAUG

Quote:
But the ultimate question is, will they ever get together???????????? And the other question, what is Inaras' secret?????

There is a lot of specualtion about what Inara's secret is.. from her having a job or mission other than being a companion to her having some kind of terminal illness, to her having a child. I don't know.. all could make a very good story..

As to weither they will ever be together... I believe the answer is yes and no.

Yes.. ULTIMATLY they have to be together. Mal's soul is dieing a little more every day without Inara. To me it makes perfect sence that Mal was darker in the movie than in the series.. because Inara is gone. When Inara is there she at least keeps him from dieing more.. and it will be her that brings him back to life. So in the end, they have to be together.. because Mal will die without her. BUT.. the catch is.. Mal and Inara's story within firefly IS NOT the story of them BEING together.. it is the story of them comming together. So if they ever DO come togther.. it will either be at the very end of the story.. OR one of them will die right after they come together.. JOSS YOU BASTARD!!!

And I actually believe it might be Mal that would get killed...

The question I beleive isn't IF or WHEN they would come together.. it would be HOW?

Actually what I am about to say has to do with an email I am going to send into the new firefly podcast about what was my favorite scene in the TV show and why.

But how I could see Mal and Inara comming together is this: Do you remember in Shindig where at the very end Athertan makes a threat to Inara something to the effect that he should have butcherd her till the point of where no man would want her? I see in that.. a very tragic.. but beautiful way for Mal and Inara to come together. Because Athertan is wrong.. Inara walks away in the arms of the very man that WOULD still want and need her.. no matter what. So I could see.. at some far distant point, a very revengeful Athertan comming back and making good on that threat. Don't get me wrong.. he's not goign to turn Inara into godzilla or anything.. but let's say that he does manage to scar Inara.. a fairly nasty scar right down her face.. right before Mal is able to stop him.. and then of course in a rage he kills Athertan. But with this scar.. Inara is devistated.. although still very "pretty" (I have a very hard time using such a basic term when it comes to Morena

) her usefulness as a companion comes to an end. And in the events that follow after this attack from Atertan. Inara will finally once and for all see Mal's true colors. You see.. the scar won't effect Mal's feelings towards Inara in the slightest or how beautiful he sees her at all. If anything, if that scar would stop her from being a companion, Mal would see the scar as something impossibly beautiful.. and thus even see Inara as MORE physically beautiful. And Inara will finally see this.. beyond a doubt. That even as no other man desires her as a companion, Mal will take that physical scar from her and will make her feel a more beautiful woman than she had EVER felt as a desired compansion. And in return, Inara seeing this, will drop all her guards and finally give herself to him.. entirly.. not just her body like she does endless clients.. but her heart, mind and soul. And in doing so, she will take the emotional scars from HIS soul.. and turn them into pleasure, giving him life and true purpose to LIVE again.. not just survive...

Tragic but beautiful, No??

Smaug..

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:43 AM

NOSADSEVEN

Quote:
Originally posted by pyrefx:
wow... you just reduced Serenity to a chick flick... well done.

Everybody knows that any movie titled Serenity is a chick flick. It's just a chick flick with lots of guns and fights and space battles and such.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:45 PM

NOSADSEVEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Smaug:
Mal will not end up in her bed.. she will be in his.. which is exactly where she needs to be.

Ooooh...I'm loving this distinction!

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:57 PM

DREAMTROVE

Huh, hadn't thought about this., Guess you're right.

God musta gone and left them, battle of Serenity. Not sure he's ever coming back

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 2:13 PM

SMAUG

Quote:
Everybody knows that any movie titled Serenity is a chick flick. It's just a chick flick with lots of guns and fights and space battles and such.

Well.. that's the beauty of it.. if most people just like to see Mal as this angry, bitter, yet still lovable captain who has this sort of on-again off-again sexual tension thing with Inara and nothing more.. not looking any deeper into what may be driving it.. then that is fine..

Quote:
Ooooh...I'm loving this distinction!

yes..

Small distinction.. but it means everything in the world..

Quote:
Huh, hadn't thought about this., Guess you're right.

Well.. I am not right or wrong... I mostly share possibilities that I believe drive these two characters on a very deep level. We all have deep insight into the character/s we are most like. Every character is a small piece of Joss. But to me.. I am a little to dangerously like Mal... to a point that could go deeper into him and Inara than even Joss probably could or ever would. Not that he needs to.

But I say dangeriously like Mal, because.. such pain and lonliness is a terrible thing to bear. They don't go that deep in the show.. because it would get to dark.. but IRL.. Mal probably wouldn't be so funny. And some may think what I share is crazy as a reaver..

but if it gives insight into what drives Mal and Inara that someone maybe hasn't thought about or could have seen.. even if their ideas that stem from that are different that what I said.. that's all I could hope for. I know I enjoy reading other's insights into the other characters that I am not so much like...

Smaug..

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 2:45 PM

THEREALME

Smaug,

I really like your ideas. I have one point to add, though.

At the end of Heart Of Gold, Mal is about to confess his love for Inara. If I could see that, then certainly the ultra-psychologist companion Inara could. Note that companion wash-out Nandi could tell at a glance that Mal was in love with Inara and (more importantly) Inara was in love with Mal.

But Inara shut Mal up. Right before he could confess his love to her, she interrupted him and dropped the bomb that she was departing.

If all she was waiting for was him to say something, then she blew it for herself.

No, there is something else going on with her, that keeps her from making attachments to others. It is probably that same mystery that drove her away from the Core planets.

TheRealMe, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:41 PM

HIGHWAYMAN

Wo De Ma, you are really good Smaug. I think they should get you to write some episodes man! If they ever do episodes again.

I think that as TheRealMe said, there is definately something going on with Inara that is keeping her from attatchments. Maybe we'll find out and Mal will put an end to whatever it is, and maybe die in the process. So by freeing Inara to be able to be with him, he dies. That's very Shakespearian don't ya think.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:28 AM

SMAUG

Quote:
At the end of Heart Of Gold, Mal is about to confess his love for Inara. If I could see that, then certainly the ultra-psychologist companion Inara could. Note that companion wash-out Nandi could tell at a glance that Mal was in love with Inara and (more importantly) Inara was in love with Mal.

Let me preface this by saying that I have not seen HoG yet. But I can speculate based upon what I do know.

A short answer is that we all know that love is blind. It doesn't take this other companion to figure out they are in love with each other.. I think everyone on the ship knows this. Well.. except for maybe Jayne

I DO believe Inara has a secret.. I don't beleive that it is anything that would keep her from making attachments.. except maybe compansions arn't supposed to? In a just a its-not-good-for-buisness-kind-of-way.

But not that they can't. I haven't seen HoG.. but I can speculate upon what is to happen.

When you are talking about a love this deep.. that goes beyond just being attracted to each other, having some things in common, enjoying each others company, etc.. but beyond all that to a very deep emotional need of the other person where you feel like you are holding your breath underwater, and you can't breath again until you feel the other. It doesn't matter how well Inara may be able to read other people when it comes to herself. She may be feeling things she has never felt before, and maybe even feeling things she never thought were truely possible. This has a way of making yourself blind to the obvious. Especially when I am not talking about just love here.. but a deep seeded emotional need from your very soul where there is no one else in the 'verse that could possibly fill. Nobody ever said love was easy... especially not one this deep.

I will further speculate.. I could be wrong because I haven't seen that episode, but I beleive I accidently read that Mal sleeps with Nandi.. if not her.. then someone. If that is true.. then this is what I can speculate on. When Inara learns of this, it will cut her to the core of her soul. She will feel in an instant, a pain of which she has never imagined possible. I have seen a clip of Inara crying.. I am guessing this is when she finds out. Let me put a little weight upon what Inara.. and Mal.. feels because of this (the other sleeping with someone else).

We all know it eats at Mal when Inara goes off to see clients. He tries to play cool like it doesn't bother him and focus on his own job at hand.. but inside.. it eats him alive. To imagine what it is like, imagine this: here is a woman, and not just any woman, and not just a woman you think is beautiful, not just a woman that you love, but the woman that you NEED. Now imagine this woman, standing before you.. the one woman you truely love with all your soul where no other woman could ever take her place. Now imagine there is a glass wall spererating you from her. So you can see her, but you can't touch her or feel her or speak to her or do anything but see her. Now suddenly she isn't standing before you on the other side of the glass but suddenly being f*cked by some man. And she seems to be throughly enjoying it. And then you suddenly find yourself bound with your eyes pried open where you can't turn away or close your eyes and are forced for all eternity to watch this man (or it could be an endless array of men) take the woman you love over and over and over and over again right before your very eyes. Now that would be my own worst hell I could ever imagine, there is no physical pain that could ever come close. That's a little extreme and of course not exactly what Mal is going through, but not too far off. Actualy in one mannor, it’s actually worse, because Mal doesn’t “see” what Inara does with her clients, he only imagines it. And what he is imagining.. is probably 100 times worse than anything Inara is actually doing. What we see Inara doing with her clients is very flowerly and calm and romantic. Not exactly lustful and passionate.. tear the shuttle apart to get at each other.. which is what I believe it will be between her and Mal, and Inara will be the one left breathless, but so will Mal. The show of course handles all this in a much lighter fashion, but IRL it would be enough to probably send Mal over the edge. That is the weight, the pain, that Mal carries each and every time that Inara leaves in the shuttle to go off to see another client/s.

I would love to see just one short sceen of Mal standing there watching Inara leave in her shuttle after landing upon yet another planet. Inara not knowing that Mal does this. And Zoe comes in to get Mal to leave becaue they have another job to do. As Zoe walks up, Mal turns around and punches a wall or something and Zoe asks "why do you do this to yourself every time, sir?" Which would show that Mal watch Inara leave every time. And Of course Mal would utter something in Chinese something to the effect of "mind your own business" and then they would go off on their next job. A little 20 second scene that would be very powerful

But this is the pain that Inara inadvertantly causes Mal with her occupation as a companion. This pain Mal carries with him and it grows every time Inara leaves on her shuttle. This pain confuses Mal and muddles up his feelings for Inara.. that is why in the movie he told her that he she confuses everything when she is around and he wishes she wasn't even there. But we all know he doesn't mean that and he will never will see clearly until she is his. I speculate that this is the pain Inara will feel in one devistating moment when Mal turns the tables and sleeps with someone else. Do you remember how upset Inara was about Mal having a "wife" in Our Misses Reynolds.. even though the whole thing was a mistake and Mal didn't even know the woman? So what is Inara going to feel when Mal chooses to sleep with someone else? Actually it's a brillant move (on Joss's part) to make Inara feel and realize the pain that Mal does. This understanding of the pain in each other will ultimatly bring them closer together. Yes.. it drives them apart in the hurricane of the pain. Inara runs from it, but ultimatly it will only eventually bring them closer than ever before because Inara knows what it feels like when the tables are turned. And from what I see in the movie.. didn't she just go back to her home world to "teach" after that point? Notice she didn't continue to be a "companion"? Could it be because she now sees the pain she was causing Mal? And can't keep doing it?

Ok.. I need to quit speculating upon things I haven't seen yet.. My stance may change if any of my speculation proves wrong upon viewing future episodes.

I have other ideas about things such as why does Inara seem to pick young inexperienced "dweebs": as clients? And do you reemember in the piolet episode when Kaylee asks Inara how many fell madly in love with her? And Inara says "only one.. I must be slipping." We see that in the past, possibly before Mal, Inara has choosen attrative, charming, clients such as Athertan. Could it be that now Inara is choosing clients .. i.e. dweebs, that she knows she will not be physically or emotionally attracted to because of her feelings for Mal? Is that also why she is "slipping"? Is that also why in the piolet episode she possibly changed her clock to speed it up to cheat her client out of ther "fun"? Notice she did not dispute that or become offended that he even suggested such a thing. Which means that eaither she DID speed up her clock.. OR her performance was so "sub-par" that her client noticed it (at the end anyway) and was embarrseed by that fact. Would that even be against guild law? To speed up the clock that is? It would be interesting to find out that Inara is even breaking or bending the rules because of her feelings for Mal. Of course these are just ideas.. that so far seem to play out through all the episodes I have seen to this point, but I haven't seen them all yet. So we will see..

Oh.. also remember this.. I don't think Inara can read people as well as she believes she can. Don't get me wrong.. she is a pro alright.. but think of this.. I beleive that she genuinly liked Athertan.. If she had never met Mal.. she might even have accepted Athertans proposal, maybe, we don't know for sure. Certainly other companions may have. We don't know enough about compansions to know. Of course now with Mal.. she wouldn't have even without the events that transpired. But overall, I believe she actually liked Athertan, and this was the type of client she shose before finding what she sees in Mal. But it took Mal to show Inara what a monster Athertain was.. it can take a lot before someones true colors show. Even to a "pro" like Inara..

But Mal knew as soon as he met Athertain that at the very least he was an a$$hole. So I don't beleive Inara can read people as well as she would like to believe..

Quote:
I think they should get you to write some episodes man! If they ever do episodes again.

Well.. thank you.. that's a pretty mighty compliment.

But the truth is.. I don't know if I could "write" an episode.. I might be good at giving input upon some "big picture" ideas of what would make a good episode. But I don't think I could get down to the actual finished product where every line of dialog is written, etc.

Well.. I COULD do that for Mal and Inara.. so I would probably make a better Mal and Inara consultant than I would be at "writting an episode".

Of course unless that episode was entirely about Mal and Inara.

Actually one idea I have is how would we see thier first "real" kiss. And even then.. it wouldn't be "real".. it would kind of turn the tables on how Inara kissed Mal in Our Miss Reynolds where Mal was passed out.

I had this thought of a good episode would be to have someone kidnap Inara.. someone from her past... an insanly jealous client who wants Inara to himself.

Can't blame him for that!!

and is willing to kidnap her to do so, and has been planning for months/years to do so. So he does.. and when Mal finds out.. he of course has to ditch a job right in the middle, of course creating another enemy in the process.. to go after Inara. *bunch of stuff happens* Then when Mal finally finds Inara.. bursting into the room where she is being kept. His emotions go from panic, not knowing if Inara is still alive, to overwhelming joy and relief that she is and is ok.. and then this is of course where things get funny

Inara, being a prisoner of course, Mal finds her bound.. in.. umm.. let's say a rather compromising position. lol

He at first starts to release her, but then jokes about how he kind of likes the "prediciment" she is in. Which of course infuriates her. Yelling at him to free her, at which point he finally starts to after some more teasing. But before he releases her for good.. he simply can't let the oportunity pass.. and almost on animalistic instinct, his need and love of her and the thoughts that had almost killed him that harm may have come to her, or even worse that she might have been killed.. the thoughts of deep regret that he has never even kissed her (that he knows of

) takes over. In an instant, he decides as if he has no choice, to never let that happen, thus he kisses her deeply. Which she is a little torn at his kiss by the fact that they arn't out of the woods yet and being taken advantage of because being still bound she isn't able to stop him, but being relieved that he is there, and that he came for her. And of course deep down, its been what she desperatly has been wanting him to do. So at first she is reluctant and fights it a little, but it only takes a few second and she starts to let go and give into it.. into Mal.. completely. Right at this point the kiss is inturrupted by the "bad guy". Whom subsequently knocks Mal out while they are kissing. But then Inara, with her restraints mostly remeoved, is able to finally work herself free and take care of the bad guy and they get out of there. When Mal comes to later.. of course then they both awkwardly play off the kiss as a heat of the moment thing. Inara plays that she was being taken advantage of because she was bound and couldn't stop Mal.. and Mal plays it as he was just so relieved to see that she was alive he was overcome and just couldn't control his actions. "You where all articulate and bound.. I was the one being taken advantage of"

LOL So it's still not their first "real" kiss just something that brings them a few steps closer.. of course before something else happens later to pull them several steps apart again..

Just sort of a "big picture" of an idea for an episode.. I prbably could flesh thatt one out in more detail.. but like I said.. I would probably make a better Mal and Inara consultant. SO if the series ever comes back.. Joss are you out there??

Ok.. I better stop there.. as you can tell.. I could talk about these two characters all day.. and night... and tomorrow.. and the day after tomorrow..

Smaug..

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE