GAH! It's just... no... that's so wrong... by Jacqui

Quote:
Originally posted by PsychicRiver:
I mean interested to know exactly what RG did to get kicked off the cast though.

The closest thing to an "official word' I heard was she wasn't kicked off, she had too full a dance-card and couldn't resolve the schedule differences. I think that was from one of the "Firefly" episode producer commentaries

HOHOHO

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:54 AM

GERSHOM

Joss is quoted as saying 'The most difficult part to cast was Inara. We [initially] cast someone and it didn't work out. Its nothing against the actor, but I felt the shift in the energy - 'this is not one of the crew'... 'When Morena came in, it was as though she had always been there.'

Morena had been offered an audition initially but turned it down because there was no script and she was in New York at the time... Its she who says that ' they had cast the part and then fired the person' and at that point she again tried for the part...

Morena's smile and facial expressions makes all the difference to the role...

"Every heist, he's gotta start yelling my name..."

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:51 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jacqui:
Okay, so, I've listened to the commentary to 'Serenity' a few times and read the reports and I *know* that Rebecca Gayheart was the original Inara.

In my head, I know it. But, you know, I've never really linked it before.

And now Anthony is watching Sliders and it's the episode with her in it and all I can do is shudder. I mean...

Seriously? No.

No way in hell could she have played Inara.

Thank you Morena, thank you very much.

I agree. I couldn't see anyone, barring none of the big name actresses in Hollywood, that could have brought Inara to life the way Morena has done. I don't know of anyone that could have pulled off the grace and dignity of Inara the way Morena has done.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 5:07 AM

DONCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I don't know of anyone that could have pulled off the grace and dignity of Inara the way Morena has done.

Very true.

I wonder if it might actually be a negative for her acting career, though. How many roles are there for beautiful, graceful, dignified young women? Most Hollywood casting for female parts seems to start and end at "cute".

Morena: too classy to get work...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:43 PM

Yeah...

All you guys are SOOOOooooo-oo-oo-ooooo correct - couldn't agree more.

For what silliness it's worth, Morena is now on my list of the "Seven (yeah, I know... "7"... it's wierd)... Most Beautiful Women Alive"... and part of what puts her there is All of That Lovely (Julliard) Talent.

You rock, girl! Love the cowboy hat!

HOHOHO

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 5:24 PM

SLAYTHIS

bump

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 5:46 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Gershom:
Joss is quoted as saying 'The most difficult part to cast was Inara. We [initially] cast someone and it didn't work out. Its nothing against the actor, but I felt the shift in the energy - 'this is not one of the crew'... 'When Morena came in, it was as though she had always been there.'

Morena had been offered an audition initially but turned it down because there was no script and she was in New York at the time... Its she who says that ' they had cast the part and then fired the person' and at that point she again tried for the part...

Morena's smile and facial expressions makes all the difference to the role...

"Every heist, he's gotta start yelling my name..."

Joss sure does seem to have a knack for finding the right folks for his shows.

Thanks, Morena.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:18 PM

ANANTI

Well there is that role for Wonder Woman, she's supposed to be graceful and elegant, right?

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ananti:
Well there is that role for Wonder Woman, she's supposed to be graceful and elegant, right?

well...

I DO seem to remember that W.W. was kinda ...muscle-bound, eh?

HOHOHO

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:43 PM

ANANTI

Remember Linda Hamilton in T2?

Any personal trainer can take care of that in 3-4 month.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:49 PM

THATWEIRDGIRL

I hearby officially challenge Morena for the role of WW...mud wrestle...winner takes all.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:49 PM

No offense to the actors involves, but I'm frank and insensitive, so I tells it as I sees it. This is a troll warning, so if a trolling post upset you, don't read it.

[Enter the Troll]

That was a fairly bad ep. of sliders, I didn't remember her as so bad in it, but it's hard to tell. Morena has yet to wow me. Except from a schwing perspective. But I mean seriously, as an actor. Some people Joss likes and thinks are good I sometimes see as androids. There's all this emotional tension possible, but I don't get it. It's like buffy and angel. Sarah was being this emotional fountain next to this cardboard david. It was almost comic. Perhaps part of the reason that this relationship, mal+inara, is so tedious to me is that neither character is at all emotional in a convincing way. I know they're both sort of tough exterior kind of characters, but like willow and tara were emotional overkill. allyson and amber were terrific. Willow and Oz worked well, because allyson was fantastic, and seth was a stone wall, intentionally.
Mal and Inara is still the most boring cute people match up I've seen on a Joss show. It's like something out of baywatch, seriously.

I wouldn't mind it if this somehow got interesting. I would hate to think the relationship was attracting interest because the actors were cute, or even because people liked the characters and wanted them to be happy. Maybe I'm the only person who doesn't see it, but if anyone else is in doubt of this fascinating element, please post any ideas you have on how to make it interesting, on the hopes Joss might pick it up, because right now, I'm drawing a blank.

[End of Troll]

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:25 PM

SPOOKYJESUS

The original Inara.....

"GAH! It's just... no... that's so wrong..." indeed.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 10:58 PM

GERSHOM

Don't get me wrong, she is a very pretty woman but wrong for that particular part - as another possibly more worldly companion possibly... I just think that Joss made the right call when he decided to look elsewhere for that particular part...

"Every heist, he's gotta start yelling my name..."

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 5:13 AM

MIRAND

After nearly one Season (And maybe a Film) for us Morena became Inara. And the Character of Inara is inseparable connected to the look and behavior of Morena.
Even if there would have been an better Actor its now to late to recognize him.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 5:30 AM

QUOTE]
I agree. I couldn't see anyone, barring none of the big name actresses in Hollywood, that could have brought Inara to life the way Morena has done. I don't know of anyone that could have pulled off the grace and dignity of Inara the way Morena has done.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

I'm damned glad there are no "A" list's involved in the series. These actors have just as much to offer creatively. As Wheedon reflected, it was the chemistry among the cast that made the show what it is. If a $20 Mil/movie celeb were thrust into the bivouac, no good could come of it.

So I guess I am saying that I disagree with the notion that any major star could have succeeded where Morena has. She nailed the role, the chemistry with the cast/crew and it shows.

I guess as an actor, I'm a bit biased in this regard. I love to see unknowns cast in large scale movies. There's too much talent out there to be overshadowed by a handful of celebs like scienTOMogist Cruise.

(I'm nit-picking, I know. In essence, I agree that she was perfect for the roll, so we are pretty close to the same page

)

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
No offense to the actors involves, but I'm frank and insensitive, so I tells it as I sees it. This is a troll warning, so if a trolling post upset you, don't read it.

[Enter the Troll]

That was a fairly bad ep. of sliders, I didn't remember her as so bad in it, but it's hard to tell. Morena has yet to wow me. Except from a schwing perspective. But I mean seriously, as an actor. Some people Joss likes and thinks are good I sometimes see as androids. There's all this emotional tension possible, but I don't get it. It's like buffy and angel. Sarah was being this emotional fountain next to this cardboard david. It was almost comic. Perhaps part of the reason that this relationship, mal+inara, is so tedious to me is that neither character is at all emotional in a convincing way. I know they're both sort of tough exterior kind of characters, but like willow and tara were emotional overkill. allyson and amber were terrific. Willow and Oz worked well, because allyson was fantastic, and seth was a stone wall, intentionally.
Mal and Inara is still the most boring cute people match up I've seen on a Joss show. It's like something out of baywatch, seriously.

I wouldn't mind it if this somehow got interesting. I would hate to think the relationship was attracting interest because the actors were cute, or even because people liked the characters and wanted them to be happy. Maybe I'm the only person who doesn't see it, but if anyone else is in doubt of this fascinating element, please post any ideas you have on how to make it interesting, on the hopes Joss might pick it up, because right now, I'm drawing a blank.

[End of Troll]

Well if that was a Troll, it was a weak one

Seriously, your criticism is valid and well stated lacking the insulting quality of a typical e-troll.

I do however, respectfully disagree.

If I can flip into drama-professor mode for a moment

(ahem)

Morena does employ a high level of skill in her performance, especially noted throughout the series. To get technical, she uses a technique called layering. A very difficult tool.

On the surface she would seem to be completely disinterested in, and even repulsed by her co-star (Mal). Yet, we see in her performance, that she is actually quite in love with him. But she never carries it so far as to be obvious to the other character, yet we, as an audience, can see it quite clearly. A very difficult balance to achieve. It is my opinion that she does so admirably, as does Nathan. "Emotion" is a tag term used to describe the talents of a lot of actors, but there's really SO much more to it than wearing your heart on your sleeve. Subtlety is far more challenging that a good crying fit. she carries this off by focusing on her character's intentions, needs, desires. The moment an actor begins to focus on how they should "feel" or "be," they sacrifice an essential connection to the story.

Stanislavski (the father of modern method acting) always used to say that (paraphrasing) "there is no character, there is only you. And you are far more interesting to watch than any character you could invent." The more an actor pulls out of him/herself, the more engaging the performance. Morena would have learned this at Juilliard, the best performing arts school in the world.

Believe me, this opinion has nothing to do with her aesthetic appeal. I cringe at the sight of the infestation of eye-candy floundering their way through a performance without any training to guide them.

So there it is. I apologize if I came off somewhat stuffy, it's the only way I know of to clearly state my opinion.

Anyhow, that is my very subjective assessment, for the sake of discussion.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:11 AM

I didn't want to actually BE a troll, just the slightly trollish nature of the post, I wanted to warn the potentially offended.

[more trollish post]

When I look at Inara, once I get over the physical hotness, I see:

1. A whiny bitch who cannot stop nagging and whining, she reminds me of my grandmother

2. Not just a whore, but one who boinks every gheap pretty boy asshole slut in the know universe.

3. A self inportant superficial snob who expects everyone to lick her boots.

And Mal's part in this relationship is to me the incredibly whipped cuckold dupe who provides her with a taxi service so she can boink everyone else who meets the standard of being born rich and obnoxious, while making Mal miserable.

Okay, people want this relationship to develop? Here's how I would like to see the relationship develop: I would be blissfully happy if Mal would take her to the cargo bay and chuck her out the airlock. I think she's earned that.

It's not an emotional point for me at all, I'm just sick of the whining whoring bitchfest. If Jayne behaved like that he'd be out the airlock, oh wait, yeah that's right.

But I guess I made that pretty clear.

Here are some better ideas. Wash and Zoe is only bothersome in that Wash is a completely whipped pansy while Zoe wheres the pants in the family, while Wash is the bitch who gets her a beer so she can watch the game, figuratively speaking. But it's interesting, as a relationship, it has many strong interesting developable story points. And it doesn't make me sit there getting ticked off at Zoe for pushing Wash around. I don't get annoyed at Wash for getting pushed, because he tries to push back. And there's the whole Mal element. So sure, this is interesting.

Mal and Inara is not. At the moment Inara has nothing going for her. Aside from being mad hot. But, consider, if this were a story in text, in a book, Inara would have nothing going for her, at all. And between them these is nothing except that Mal is a class a bitch-slapped whipping boy.

Here are some more interesting choices for Mal

Saffron
Kaylee
River
Book
A trio with simon and kaylee
A gay marriage to Niska

I think you get my point, which is virtually anything.

The only one of those which is serious is the saffron one, though Mal+River as someone posted earlier, would not be a terrible idea.

[end of troll]

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:41 AM

[more trollish rant]

It's not that I hate it. That would at least be something. If I were so wrapped up in the characters that I was angry at the pairing.

Instead it has nothing to do with that, I'm bored silly by it. This is the tale of a hardened tragic war hero and a shallow whore. It's not interesting, but moreover, it's not science fiction. It's Aaron Spelling.

Spelling dishes out this stuff day in and day out. And sure, people love it. They post on these boards about how they love it. People just like them, having relationships just like theirs. This is not science fiction, people.

I don't hate it. It bores me to tears. Science fiction has plenty of room to explore relationships completely different from ones we are used to, and through those, show us things about ourselves we can't see in the relationships we know.

A Vampire in love with a Slayer, or a Slayer in love with a Vampire, this was new interesting and worthy of the speculative fiction it was in. Likewise a witch and a werewolf.

I want to jump ship for a second and slam a relationship in another series to let you know where I'm coming from:

John Crighton and Aeryn Sun. This was possibly the most boring development in a watchable science fiction show ever, excluding a lot of completely unwatchable scifi.

Here's why:

John Crighton is just like us, easy to identify with. He's written to be that way, because we are seeing the universe through his eyes. Aeryn is just like many people I've known. Two very human characters. Sure, Aeryn is raised to be a soldier, but that's a minor twist that plays out much like normal human relationships where one person has any sort of troubled past.

So, he's a fish out of water, she has a troubled past. It's still reading like a harlequin. Nothing interesting so far, and nothing remotely resembling science fiction.

Now this is not strictly a noromo rant here. There was a suggestion in the show that John and Chiana were going to hook up before it was decided on John and Aeryn. Many fans including me looked forward to this opportunity, exposing human preconceptions through the context of a relationship with a totally alien character. It was really interesting.

Chiana and Dargo, which happened, was two like aliens getting together, it was again boring, but not as boring as John and Aeryn.

Now here's where it gets worse.

Sci-fi read the blogs and told the makers of the show to supplant their existing story arch with on to develop this romance that I and everyone I know was already sick of.

It was tedious. Painful to watch. Gone was at least a third to well over half of every show. Much of a potentially fascinating alternate universe was stripped away and replaced with stock Spelling romance.

Aaron Spelling has already made lots of shows which are chock full of this stuff. Go watch those shows. Leave us real nerds with some actual science fiction to watch!

If you need both, get your boring romance dose from some Spelling show. If you don't like Spelling stylistically, there are many many other people making this stuff. In enormous quantity.

I'm personally dreading looking forward to a return of the show to find out that half of the series is made up of an extremely un-sci-fi bitchfest which sounds like my parents, and probably most of yours.

Simon and Kaylee are fine, as are Zoe and Wash, because they don't take over the story. Mal and Inara has that special bitchfest quality that will bring in the soap opera crowd, and they will make the ratings for the show to stay and the show will in no way resemble firefly. It'll be like smallville or something else I find just unwatchably bad.

It's just not what I signed up for. I signed up for heist jobs, bad guys, cannibals, psychic freaks, axes, guns, really bad guys, conspiracies, and the occassional really alien relationship. River and anyone is such a relationship. I like the suggestion River and Mal madeor River and Jayne, both of which were made by other people earlier.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:56 AM

Oh! I see! It's the character you take issue with. My mistake. Well I can't argue that. A subjective artistic opinion neither right nor wrong. I understand. However, I respectfully disagree.

I see all the qualities in the character that you see, but I find her arrogance and snobbery appealing. She is, after all, a highly respectable member of society surrounded by a group of career criminals. Whose captain treats her with less than respect.

The irony of the hooker having the high moral ground is an interesting twist to conventional wisdom, IMO.

But your points are well taken.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:02 AM

[final trollish post]

crusaer, btw. you did come across as full of yourself. the more people treat this like some exotic art, the more like the people inara hooks up with they sound.

I have done this as i imagine many people have. It's not a high art, or complicated. biochemistry is complicated, computer programming is complicated, nothing you stated here is at all complicated. All that it says to me that someone went to julliard is they're rich. It doesn't make layering a complex idea, or the virtue of selfishness any more of an art.

I'm not implying that morena is talentless. I'm implying that in particular, inara+mal is boring me to tears, and it would lose me as a viewer if it became the focus of the show.

The buffy+spike scenes were good. The buffy+angel scenes were terrible. I tend to say that therefore david can't act, but maybe it's the writing, or the coaching, whatever it is, it didn't work. They're unbearable to watch. the only reasons those scenes had fans is that david is a hottie, and soap opera fans were watching. spike and buffy made a much more convincing and interesting vampire/human twist.

I think Inara is also completely full of herself, if she wants to whine all the time, etc. fine. She can be a perfectly interesting character doing so. Stanley Tweedle is a whiny bitch, but it didn't bother me because his being a whiny bitch drove the story forward.

But please don't pretend there is some high art here that the laymen cannot understand. It's pretentious to the point of almost being offensive. I'm not saying I know everything involved, I'm saying everyone here does.

What else I'm saying is it's not Morena's job to make me like Inara. It's her job to make me care. care whether Inara lives or dies. See Inara as something other than a cardboard cutie who whines all the time. Give a damn whether Mal actually does chuck her out the airlock.

I care whether Zoe gets shoved out the airlock. I'm not Zoes biggest fan. I think she treats Wash like hell, and she's cold, frigid, and generally not someone I would want to date. I think Gina has made me care whether she lives or dies. I can see things from Zoe's point of view.

I don't know whether the reason I'm bored to tears with Inara and esp. her relationship with Mal is Morena, or whether it's the writers who like to focuse on Inara and wrote those episodes.

It probably didn't merit this much of a trollish rant, I don't know why I went on this long. Probably because there's so much talk about Bonnie Hammer getting the show and of Mal + Inara, and I know that Bonnie Hammer will love Mal+Inara because it's very Aaron Spelling. And Bonnie Hammer dreams of having her very own Aaron Spelling show. And then gone will be firefly, as a rough living on the edge scifi show, and in will come whiny endless John+Aeryn style bitchfest for an entire season. This is not an interesting development, it's what all of television does all of the time.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:07 AM

Sorry I wrote that last post before seeing your latest one.

Hooker with high moral ground by itself is interesting, it's one of the interesting traits of the character.

But I'm only slightly annoyed at Inara, the character, and not at Morena, but as I said, it's possiible she could make me care. On the other hand, only if the writers are also trying to make me care.

But more my boredom is born of the relationship.

Because Inara is contentious, and Mal is tortured, it makes for a very boring stereotypical development I've seen in 100s of shows and 1000s of movies.

It's African Queen.

Which was okay to watch once.

Now it's old.

It's getting older with each telling.

How about African Insect Queen.

Or something.

This is science fiction.

Please Joss please, give us some science fiction.

Don't give us what Aaron Spelling gives us daily.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:08 AM

By the way - I DETEST Aron Spelling and Soap Operas with a passion impossible to describe with mere text, lacking a small retinue of fuzzy animals to mutilate.

Every since he ruined Vampire: The Masquerade I've advocated his labotomization. I would recommend the same for his audience, but I fear nature has beaten me to the punch.

I simply don't see the correlation with Mal/Inara. In fact, I was convinced early on that they would never be an item and was surprised to see their feelings for one another develop.

Their coupling just has Shakespeare tragedy written all over it. If they engage in a Ross/Rachel relationship, one of them is doomed. (my prediction is Inara, so you may get your wish

)

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:51 AM

I admit I'm overreacting.

I'm not really upset with the relationship. I'm bored with it. What I'm upset over is that if Bonnie Hammer picks up the show, which is the most likely possibility, she will take to this like a duck to water and threaten to cancel Joss if he doesn't devote half the show to it. This is what the previous program director did to Farscape, and Bonnie is far worse. I would have loved to see Fox, UPN or WB pick it up, and none of this would be an issue. 5 minutes of boredom for me in an otherwise awesome one hour drama is not too bad. I'll grab a donut or something. But I'm afraid that in Bonnie's hands it'll totally derail the show. Like farscape was totally derailed.

It's spellingesque in that it's human fraility incompatibility thats full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Joss is a better writer, but again he won't be writing every ep. or even most.

Also, while I was trolling I thought I'd throw in a plea to the writers or actors to if this is going to be a big part of the show please do something to make it interesting.

Saffron was impossible to deal with but interesting. If there has to be a non-science fiction element Mal romance taking up part of my hour of sci-fi, I'd much rather it was something entertaining like Mal-Saffron.

If the relationship itself was interesting, and not something I use to go get coffee, and yeah, I did watch all of these scenes on the first pass, and they are not as bad as the Buffy/Angel scenes, but still, I've ranted out on the subj. now.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:58 AM

You seem to have information I lack. What is possibility of Bonnie Hammer picking up the show? (I agree, this would be BAD)

And what are the chances of the show actually being picked up?

A large number of shows weren't penned by Wheedon anyhow, but the results were still within his vision. Will Tim Minear still pen a number of episodes?

Thus far, I've seen no concrete evidence to give me hope that the show will be picked up.

Can you share what you know? Or point me to where you've gotten your info? I am excited to read more on the subject.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:03 AM

SMAUG

Quote:
For what silliness it's worth, Morena is now on my list of the "Seven (yeah, I know... "7"... it's wierd)... Most Beautiful Women Alive"... and part of what puts her there is All of That Lovely (Julliard) Talent.

I would say... um... that's actually putting it mildly. Morena is litterly painfully beautiful.. I always thought she was beautiful on the outside of course.. but it wasn't until a couple of interviews with her that I believe I saw a glimpse of what I hope is the real her.. which I hope gave me a look upon her true beauty.

LKike I have said before.. I would pay 10$ to watch a movie of Morena watching a movie..

Now Dreamtrove.. we all draw upon what it is about certain characters that strike a chord within us. Some may see nothing more than a sexual tension between Mal and Inara and nothing more.. other's may not even like one or the other character or their feelings for each other, like yourself. But their relationship and feelings for each other are born of pain, and it's not something that is easy to describe. I talk alot about that in the thread "Mal and religion", so I won't repeat it here.

But there is a LOT there.. at least to some of us that it does strike a very deep cord with. If not, and one just hates those character/s, and/or their relationship.. that's cool.. we all have our own opinions..

But I do agree with you that their relationship should never BECOME the show... it's only a part of it..

Smaug..

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:16 AM

SMAUG

Quote:
Whose captain treats her with less than respect.

I agree wholeheartedly that her occupation as a companion giving her a high standing in society is an incredibe twist.. but I don't think Mal ever really disrepects HER.. I believe he respects her like no other man ever has.. he just doesn't repect her occupation.

Smaug..

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:17 AM

I read this on a blog somewhere. I guess she has bought the rights to show Serenity on TV when it's eligible for that, which is part of her pattern of behavior for "I'm going to buy this show." Witness how she did this with Critters, BSG and Dune, and a couple others that aren't coming to mind. That on top of the fact that Sci-fi has been running reruns of Firefly, another thing they tend to do before striking a predatory pounce.

On the plus for renewal there's lots of positive data on the shows popularity. IMDB has it ranked #3 for active shows, unheard of for a cancelled show; Amazon had it ranked #1, also unheard of; on google, firefly/serenity references outrank SG1, not to mention virually everything else actually on the air.

I think all of this is statistical data which points to the show being viable. In fact I think it's overwhelming statistical data, enough to possibly convince Fox, WB or UPN to pick it up. But it looks like Bonnie will beat them to the punch.

I'm glad we agree she's a nightmare. She does put on some decent programming, but she is a mainstream media whore. If some change will add two mindless jerry springer heads but lose one sfwa member, she'll say 2-1=+1 and do it. She killed Farscape and Lexx for being to geeky, and she thinks Crossing over with John Edward is science fiction. Whatever. Anyway, I'm close to resigning myself to this reality, because I can see little that I can do about it.

Here's something we can do, and it's the reason I rant sometimes. I know Sci-fi spends a lot of time reading board. Too much time actually. We need to convince them that what we want is whatever Joss wants, or the great hand of Bonnie will come down and squeeze Joss' balls until he does whatever they say, or until he just gives up on the show entirely.

For my point, I want stuff like we've seen, for the most part, and stuff like Serenity.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:36 AM

FIREFLYFAN278

All of these comments about Inara being "a hooker with high moral grounds" ignores the obvious. This is set 500 years in the future and none of us live there or will.

Clearly there is little if any stigma attached to the profession as you can go be "Academy trained" for the job. While many conservatives would like to assert that the moral constraints that exist will not change over time, unless you can see the future, you can only make the assertion, but cannot prove its validity.

From the perspective of the show, having a Trained Companion on board opens doors for the crew that might otherwise be closed.

Of course there is the presence of the Bible to deal with. But the Bible quoted is not the exact one we have today, unless there are large passages with which I'm not familiar. Some of the quotes used in the show, I have never read in the Bible and I've read the whole thing several times.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:46 AM

Smaug, yeah, I can see this, I agree with Mal/Religion thing. Personally, I don't see it, but I can see where other people may see something else. I've talked to other people who find the River/Simon thing to be boring, I don't. I find Mal/Inara boring, that's all fair.

But on Farscape, to me the most boring thing was John/Aeryn. It was very similar, for those who've seen it. Only with genders reversed, as to the whole tortured/reticent thing. But this is an old story, it been done. If you haven't seen it done many times, maybe it's interesting. I didn't hate African Queen, but now I'm as bored with it as I am with this:

A newcomer in town takes a disheartened group of youngsters who have to overcome troubles in their own lives, and coaches them to a stunning victory over their ptherwise overpowering rivals.

It was good once, maybe. But it's old, for me. Maybe there's more there, if so, show me Joss.

But much more it was a matter of Bonnie Hammer is the most likely person to buy the show, if the boards start focusing on this relationship, she'll pick up on it, and she loves bland mainstream stuff like that, and she will make sure it becomes the show, so that's why it has me a little bugged.

at the moment. Anyway, I'm off to see Serenity again, so I'll check back later.

BTW, I know there are people who disagree with me vehemently on this, they may even be in the minority.

I invite them to post their ideas for what could make this relationship a truly interesting story development, and hopefully one that has something to do with science fiction, so it does not just become African Queen all over again. But I'm serious, post them so Joss can hear you.

Peace Out

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 11:09 AM

SMAUG

Quote:
and hopefully one that has something to do with science fiction

but that's the beauty of Firefly.. it isn't about Science fiction.. it's about these characters that just happen to reside in a 'verse that science fiction plays a part of. But at it's core.. it's about an incredible story.. about beautifully flawed characters that many of use relate to on one level or another, that reside in an incredibly deeply layered, and gritty, dirty, grimy universe, that was created and played by people who have a real love and passion for this story. And it shows. Boy does it show. Weither they make two more movies.. or another 5 sesason of the show.. or whatever is to come.. I will be depressed... I will be depressed when it ends. Why? Because the sum of all the parts that put their passion and love into creating this.. didn't just create a good story.. they created an incredibly story that moves and touches us all. Bravo.. to Joss.. the cast.. and everyone else who worked on it who treated it as MORE than just a job.. but something they LOVED!!

I love all the characters.. but even then.. there are characters that just feel like they are a part of my soul. Mal and Inara are the two that do. I love Simon.. and I like Kaylee.. but I am not as interesed in their relationshiip.. to me.. it's too easy and "cute". Pain is what speaks to my soul. Which is why I understand Mal and Inara so well. I guess my own way though is to read other people's insight into what they feel and love about Simon and Kaylee to try to gain insight into what it is I don't see or feel than to write about why I am not into it. That's not an attack towards anyone.. just a difference in ideoligies.

Smaug..

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 5:20 PM

Amen, Brother "Smaug"... spoken like a true dragon :-)

HOHOHO

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:15 PM

I just rewatched the movie, and I think the mal+inara element in the film is fine. It's striking me that maybe it's been too much boards and fanfic that I've seen it out of control, and recalling what happened to farscape with the not-really interesting romance taking over, I don't want that to happen. All the other story elements are far more interesting, to me anyway.

Anyway, moving on. My objections to Inara's attitude are really only as a love interest from Mal, it makes him a wuss, to persue her. They don't come from my conservative political stance. I figure everyone will identify me as a conservative and I have no intention of hiding it, though hiding under a rock is what we do best now (wouldn't you if Bush was your candidate?) My apologied BTW, I don't mean to offend any of his supporters, should there be any left. No, but seriously politics aside, this is not the issue.

I accept Joss' future as it is. I personally think the matter is absurd, respectable prostitute. So does Mal. But science fiction is a what if scenario. The "respectable prostitute" phenomenon absolutely is science fiction though. This is what is great about sci-fi. It's the "What If?"

Given this what if, I take it as it is. But I'm not one to faun over princesses, and neither is Mal, hence part of the problem, that much is interesting. Maybe what needs to happen is for Inara to make at least some steps in Mal's direction. We see her with a weapon in the film, that's a plus. I'd like to see her:

1. use bad language, not swearing in chinese, I mean use language badly

2. get drunk. really sloshed.

3. do something totally stupid. really screw up.

4. Need something stolen. These companions problems all revolve around honor and tune to our sympathies. I lack any sympathy for them, I lack sympathy for anyone who dug their own hole. But here's what would be entertaining: If they wanted to rip something off. This is why I like Saffron.

If Jayne does something noble, that's interesting. If people who claim to be noble do something noble or try to, that's boring.

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Friday, October 21, 2005 3:35 AM