My theory... by UnregisteredCompanion

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

My theory...

POSTED BY: UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION
UPDATED: Friday, October 28, 2005 20:13
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7135
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Thursday, October 20, 2005 11:15 AM

Ok,

I think we can pretty much agree that Firefly was one of the best shows EVER. And I am sure most of us liked Serenity, at least to a certain extent, or we wouldn't be here...correct?

We have told our friends and family about the movie, bought the DVD's etc...but box office numbers are low. Why?

Here is my theory.

We are freaks. I don't mean that in a bad way, but think about it. Our tastes do not follow the main stream, our imaginations seem to be more highly developed, we won't settle for same-old-same-old. Creativity, invention, and thought MUST be in our entertainment fare. And there just aren't enough of us.

Look at all those terrible movies that have made 100-200 million dollars. Hitch? Deep Impact? Crocodile Dundee II? Total CRAP! Yet people went in droves to these movies.

There are a lot of people who wouldn't know good if it bit them in their ass. The people who recognize good character development and a great story line are rare.

There aren't nearly enough of us to generate the numbers the Hollywood execs want to see. I guess we are basically humped.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 11:48 AM

ENGINEANGEL

just remember, the numbers will go up as the movie is released in other countries and when the DVD is released you can be sure that we will make the numbers we need to!!! Many people just wait to see the DVD and don't go to the movie.

keep flyin'
EngineAngel

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:01 PM

JASONZZZ

Yeah, pork rinds, tater chips, gummy bears, ice cream, soda pop. None of these things are good for you either, but lots of people like it and mountains of them are consumed everyday.

Quote:
Originally posted by UnregisteredCompanion:
Ok,

I think we can pretty much agree that Firefly was one of the best shows EVER. And I am sure most of us liked Serenity, at least to a certain extent, or we wouldn't be here...correct?

We have told our friends and family about the movie, bought the DVD's etc...but box office numbers are low. Why?

Here is my theory.

We are freaks. I don't mean that in a bad way, but think about it. Our tastes do not follow the main stream, our imaginations seem to be more highly developed, we won't settle for same-old-same-old. Creativity, invention, and thought MUST be in our entertainment fare. And there just aren't enough of us.

Look at all those terrible movies that have made 100-200 million dollars. Hitch? Deep Impact? Crocodile Dundee II? Total CRAP! Yet people went in droves to these movies.

There are a lot of people who wouldn't know good if it bit them in their ass. The people who recognize good character development and a great story line are rare.

There aren't nearly enough of us to generate the numbers the Hollywood execs want to see. I guess we are basically humped.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

Like Fireflyfans.net?
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http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283
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Given the freedom to do so, anarchy will result in an organic organization unto itself.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:08 PM

QUEENOFTHENORTH

I agree with your theory. We of the Firefly fandom are indeed a unique breed. (See? Look at how I wrote that. I'm such a freak.) I realized a long time ago that almost nothing on TV entertains me anymore. Nothing has imagination or great characters and storylines anymore. I hate reality shows and the so-called dramas they're putting on now, and don't understand how great shows like Firefly could have been cancelled to make room for this. Nor can I understand why Serenity isn't a huge blockbuster. Oh well. I hope there's enough of us weirdos so that they'll bring Firefly back. If not, I'll just watch my DVDs until holes wear through them.

See, morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:17 PM

SKYSCRAPER

Quote:
Here is my theory.

We are freaks. I don't mean that in a bad way, but think about it. Our tastes do not follow the main stream, our imaginations seem to be more highly developed, we won't settle for same-old-same-old. Creativity, invention, and thought MUST be in our entertainment fare. And there just aren't enough of us.

Your right... When I'm around friends, co-workers, family, etc. that are going on and on about American Idol and how good Tom Cruise was in War of the Worlds I feel like I'm going insane. I feel like the whole gorram world forgot how to read a story and just runs for cheap thrills and celebrity whats-its.

Not that I have anything against or for Tom Cruise, or that I think Joss Whedon is a god or anything. But when I watch a TV show or a movie, i'm watching a story. I don't care what actors are playing in it, and I don't care what history the writer/director/producer/studio has, I want to watch a story that grabs my attention. I don't want one that treats me like a moron or simpleton.

Select to view spoiler:

I litereally feel exactly how River feels on Miranda when she hears and feels the dead saying... nothing.

I invite them to see the movie, and they act like they can't be having their time wasted... Survivor comes on that night. "Besides, there no real (famous) actors in the movie and its based on a TV show got canceled. That means its crap. That attitude is so damaging my normally nice happy ways.

I enjoyed Star Wars, liked most of the Star Treks, but it only took 14 episodes of Firefly to make a browncoat. I would never go to Star Trek convention, I won't get caught dead in any kind of Star Wars costume, but opening night of Serenity, I was singing "Hero of Canton" with my friends at the theater entrance.

I really wanted Universal's investment on Serenity to come back ten-fold. I'm sure the DVD sales will be strong, but it would have been louder as a movie. Unfortunatly, I concentrated more on thinking that its the networks fault for producing shallow programs. I didn't even think for a minute that almost the rest of the world could only handle shallow programs. I wish I didn't think that way, but its the only conclusion I keep getting to.

So... in the end I'm labeled the black sheep. Yup... we're freaks... and I'd rather be a freak and then a brain dead zombie hooked network programming and canned hollywood movies.

Once, just once, I want things to go according to
the gorram plan!

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 1:21 PM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

" I didn't even think of a minute that the rest of the world could only handly shallow programs."

It pains you to think of your fellow man in this fashion...but then again...I am a seasonal employee of a retail store. I see humanity in all its wonderous glory at the mall during holiday season.

So, is it time to pitch in together and buy our own Island or something?

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 1:39 PM

ROCHESTERBROWNCAOT

freaks, but loyal, obsessed freaks. honestly to find something that i care so much about and feel such a strong connnection to is a great feeling. it's good to see so many loyal "freaks" out there

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 3:01 PM

JIDIOT

I am afraid we were the kiss of death for Firefly/Serenity. We have noticed that anything our family likes on TV is inevitably shown at midnight, or doesn't last very long. So yes - I think Firefly fans are probably not mainstream. But then do we want to be?

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:59 PM

SMOKE

I agree with your theory. There are way to many simpletons in the world.

I also agree with the Island idea, that sounds good. An island full of people who understand.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:21 PM

DREAMTROVE

Unregistered Companion,

I think your theory is spot on.

I reckon we oughtta go and do something about that.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:34 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I happen to like Deep Impact, thank you very much.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:05 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by UnregisteredCompanion:

We are freaks. I don't mean that in a bad way, but think about it. Our tastes do not follow the main stream, our imaginations seem to be more highly developed, we won't settle for same-old-same-old. Creativity, invention, and thought MUST be in our entertainment fare. And there just aren't enough of us.

Look at all those terrible movies that have made 100-200 million dollars. Hitch? Deep Impact? Crocodile Dundee II? Total CRAP! Yet people went in droves to these movies.

There are a lot of people who wouldn't know good if it bit them in their ass. The people who recognize good character development and a great story line are rare.

There aren't nearly enough of us to generate the numbers the Hollywood execs want to see. I guess we are basically humped.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

Greetings fellow freaks!
Here's my theory of how it works.
It's a causality loop, designed to keep us all asleep and in line.
Television networks want to get the largest possible amount of dough from the advertisers.
In order for that to happen, they have to have the largest number of people watching their shows.
The 'largest number' of people is not so smart as a smaller number of people.
Add to this, they don't want to offend anyone. Well, anyone with lots of money anyway- like the advertisers, or big groups who might organize to boycott their shows, or get quoted on the news saying for example "the religion of X doesn't like the show 'Tranquility'".
So.....
they can't have the shows being too smart, or they'll alienate the not so smart people.
So.....
they put little things in the stupid shows to make you feel smarter than the writers; like massive amounts of foreshadowing, and they write very easy jokes with very trendy language, that you can talk about with the people at work tomorrow, (or show people eating bugs to prove they aren't scared of anything- except not winning that $50,000)
so you never ever talk about anything real.
And.....
they use other tricks to try and make us believe that it's much better not to be so smart, or to even want to think about things by trying to make thinking people out to be geeks and freaks,
So everyone will lie down on the sofa and watch their stupid shows, and eat Fruity Oaty bars.
Repeat loop until dead.

If you can get people to believe that being pretty is more important than thinking, you create people who only care what others think.

And of course it's much better to be pretty (and spend lots of money on products to increase your level of pretty) than to be able to think for yourself, because people who think for themselves might decide Fruity Oaty bars taste like crap, and maybe they'd rather eat raisins.

Goes for movies too: if it takes an effort to understand it, that scares people. What if they don't get it? That would make them losers. Is anybody famous and pretty in it? If not it can't be any good.

It really bugs me that the people who decide choose stupidity more often than not. It makes me nuts at least once, for a minute, most days.

I go to think happy thoughts now about Serenity becomming a giant hit that wakes people from their torpor to demand integrity from pop culture. I think there are more than enough of us, there are just a lot of very sleepy people out there.

Keep flyin'
the Ghandi kissing socialist

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Friday, October 21, 2005 3:34 AM

DANTE144

Uh.. I loved Deep Impact!

"Jesus saves, everyone else takes damage" -tee shirt some girl was wearing at Megacon.

http://dantedreams.com <-my webcomic

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Friday, October 21, 2005 4:59 AM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

"Uh.. I loved Deep Impact!"

Hee he hee...we all have our moments. I happen to love "Dude, Where's My Car?"

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Friday, October 21, 2005 5:27 AM

DONCOAT

"Deep Impact" may not be "Casablanca", but next to "Armageddon" it's high art.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:40 PM

DANTE144

agreed, Doncoat!

"Jesus saves, everyone else takes damage" -tee shirt some girl was wearing at Megacon.

http://dantedreams.com <-my webcomic

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:37 PM

NOSADSEVEN

Quote:
Originally posted by liminalosity:

Television networks want to get the largest possible amount of dough from the advertisers.
In order for that to happen, they have to have the largest number of people watching their shows.

Lowest. Common. Denominator.

*sigh*

Let's just be grateful we live in a time where we can come together, share our common joy, and even create a "niche" market worthy of further investment.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:42 PM

DREAMTROVE

Bump.

I thought this was so spot on I bumped it again.

I just started re-watching Bebop, awaiting the return of my firefly DVDs has prompted space-western withdrawal.

Lots of people loved Dude where's my car. I wasn't one of them, but that's okay. But it doesn't make it high art. I didn't see Deep Impact or Armageddon, but that was what my brother said about them. (ie. DI was high art compared to A)

I think there are other things. Joss addiction takes several viewings to take hold. I saw maybe three random buffy eps over a period of many years without getting hooked. It wasn't until I was stranded with it.

Whoa!

I just had a great idea for Joss.

He should do a miniseries. It would be perfect. A miniseries forces people to watch the whole thing. I figure four buffies addicted me, so here it is, the ultimate Firefly-booster plan:

there was a series 14/15 eps, and a movie.

Now there's a 6 month story gap

Big Damn Heros - a 4 part miniseries.

4 x 1:30 (2 hours each with ads)

Wash and Book can be ressurected for this because the story will be the events between the end of the show, and the movie.

Big budget, maybe some draws to get people in, watching, one time characters, so if richard dean anderson is some alliance general, and then run ads to that effect during stargate, SG-1 fans will watch it. But no George Clooney, I mean I think he's quite good, many may disagree, but they didn't see Oh Brother Where Art Thous. Or maybe they did. Who cares, anyway, ER fans probably wouldn't like the show anyway. I digress.

They point it, you get a bunch of Sci-fi fans to sit down and watch what amounts to 6 hours of Joss. After that they'll be hooked, and they'll all line up for the second season of regular firefly eps which could be set after the movie, and start in fall, or next jan.

In short, I think it's a workable plan

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:43 PM

DREAMTROVE

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:50 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

The networks are just afraid to take risks anymore and only churn out generic crap. Half of the shows canceled by fox over the last 5 years were smart, witty, quirky, original, and critically acclaimed, Andy Richter Controls the Universe, Brimstone, Firefly, John Doe, Wonderfalls, etc.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:55 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by nosadseven:
Lowest. Common. Denominator.

*sigh*

Let's just be grateful we live in a time where we can come together, share our common joy, and even create a "niche" market worthy of further investment.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

Yup, that's the western cultural beancounter equation allright:
N divided by LCD
Fortunately, there is this happy land.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:28 PM

PURPLEYIN

How could i disagree with a theory that puts me (us) at the top of the cognative food chain?

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:09 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleYin:
How could i disagree with a theory that puts me (us) at the top of the cognative food chain?

Cogito ergo incognito at FireflyCentral hee hee don't know Latin for 'at'

Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:22 PM

URSULA

Quote:
Originally posted by Smoke:
I also agree with the Island idea, that sounds good. An island full of people who understand.

Can the island be shaped like a skull, and can we use it as a base for our inevitable (but not-so-sudden) bid for world domination?

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:43 PM

VANCOUVER

Quote:
Originally posted by UnregisteredCompanion:
Ok,

I think we can pretty much agree that Firefly was one of the best shows EVER. And I am sure most of us liked Serenity, at least to a certain extent, or we wouldn't be here...correct?

We have told our friends and family about the movie, bought the DVD's etc...but box office numbers are low. Why?

Here is my theory.

We are freaks. I don't mean that in a bad way, but think about it. Our tastes do not follow the main stream, our imaginations seem to be more highly developed, we won't settle for same-old-same-old. Creativity, invention, and thought MUST be in our entertainment fare. And there just aren't enough of us.

Look at all those terrible movies that have made 100-200 million dollars. Hitch? Deep Impact? Crocodile Dundee II? Total CRAP! Yet people went in droves to these movies.

There are a lot of people who wouldn't know good if it bit them in their ass. The people who recognize good character development and a great story line are rare.

There aren't nearly enough of us to generate the numbers the Hollywood execs want to see. I guess we are basically humped.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

All well and good, but I can't agree with any of you. It's easy to feel like a minority, and a misunderstood minority, a superior minority, etc, but I truly believe that a lot of that is the false "everybody" that the media and industry creates, from their position of commissioning polls and testing demographics and investing in homogeneity.

For instance, when I saw "The Truth about Cats and Dogs" years ago, when it first came out, I personally found the premise implausible because I thought Janeane Garofalo was way more attractive than Uma Thurman. Of course I thought it was "just me", because "everybody" knows that "everybody" thinks Uma Thurman is a goddess. Then it turned out that one of my male friends had the same problem with the movie. Then another friend. Then another. In the end, it turned out that every single person I knew who saw that movie--not just friends, but colleagues, peers, sworn enemies--thought that Janeane Garofalo was way more attractive than Uma Thurman in that movie. And yet almost all of us persisted in thinking it was "just us", that we were anomalies. Eventually, I started wondering why, when "everybody" in MY world held this particular opinion, I still thought "everybody" had the oppposite opinion. The problem is that we individuals have no real way to assess the broader picture, and see how far our view extends outside of our personal world, so we have no weapons to contest the System's version of what's popular, what's normal, what's a hit, etc.

HOWEVER, logically speaking, as far as Firefly goes, the response of the people who did see it--aren't we all agreeing that IF they saw it, they were generally "hooked"? And hasn't that been overwhelmingly our experience with new converts from the movie to the DVD series? I know it has been mine--suggests that in fact many people crave intelligent, interesting TV shows. Otherwise, why would the conversion ratio be so high? The show's poor ratings seem to stem almost entirely from factors quite different from people's dislike of quality: 1) That Fox aired the episodes out of order and with many pre-emptions; 2) that the genre was confusing in its mixed Western/Sci-fi mode, which required more clarifying on the part of the network, in the form of promos or what have you; 3) that the promotion was poor, and the execs themselves had no faith in it; 4) that it was, to some degree, the kind of show where if you didn't know what was going on, it was hard to get into specific episodes (Alias and 24 have been struggling with this for their entire runs, and the folks handling Lost have gone so far as to put together "background" episodes to catch up newcomers, which is a great idea); 5) THAT THERE WERE ONLY 11 FARGIN EPISODES OF THE THING AIRED! I still can't get over how some of you guys are saying that $33 million is a bad take for a movie based on a TV show that aired ELEVEN TIMES IN ITS ENTIRE LIFE! Come on! If you blinked, or were in Cancun for a little vacation, you missed the whole bloody run! Quite a few quality shows have built up an audience after a rocky start--but none of 'em have only had 11 episodes to do it! The fact that so many diehard fans were created in such a short span of time, and that every person I've heard of who watched the DVDs has instantly become a fanatic, argues against your theory about the LCD, at least in this case. If I may humbly submit.

Vancouver

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:54 PM

GOJIRAATOMIC

I will put it this way, i never say Firefly before I saw that movie, and the movie blew me away totally. First thing I did after was buy the dvd set and watch it right through pretty much. Yes im a diehard fan. I never watched tv before and im pissed I missed this when it was on. Now I want to look forward to more of these characters on some kind of screen but, will it happen? I would hope so but like he said, too many people pay to see total crap now adays and this, we all know, is not by any means crap.

NOOB! ima browncoat NOOB!

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:43 PM

CHINDI

well I just gotta weigh in here a bit...cus I can not help myself...

All hail those who struggle against that lowest common denomintor mentality.... yuck.

I think, sometimes, that a STUPID(and medicated) populace is easier to control.. so if you dumb it all down, it just keeps spiraling down...

but I also believe in that subtle but inevitable human spirit that kicks back. Those mutants (they be us my dears) who do like and seek out the wit, the heart the humor, the excellent.

I would LOVE some mini series the chance to look deeper into the characters- big time story arcs.. but I will take whatever I can get.

so... we be the crazies? The independents? the Browncoats? Well that is ok with me.. and we have some excellent company from Those rebellious colonials (waving to Ben Franklin and John Adams) to Mal "I am to misbehave" Reynolds... to this crew of Browncoats sitting here on the raggedy edge of the internet- and still all connected together

its all good and it is BRIGHT and shiny..

Chindi

Cornor of NO and Where...

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:44 PM

CHINDI

whoops... curse my inevitable double post

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 8:14 PM

SUPERJEDIGEEK

This is the beauty of our generation. We can't be reached. We listen to Podcasts instead of radio, we troll forums instead of newspaper.

However, you can see the power we have when we band together to show our support for Serenity. This is the same cult status you see for shows like the Rocky Horror Picture Show that keep on going. We will triumph, and will show the mainstream how things are done.

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Friday, October 28, 2005 2:07 AM

XEROGRAVITY

We're not freaks. I feely use the phrase "we" cuz I identify with what you're saying. We're mainstream (in a way). We are the educated minority, the people who managed to survive the public school crucible. To hell with fitting in, I want knowledge, deeper understanding of science and philosophy, pure and simple.

Turn on MTV. "Music Tele-Vision". I'm old enough to remember a time when the station was truly devoted to music. You'd switch on MTV, and there it was... the fusion of visual media and music... bands attaching a video to their music. Now, it's anything but. MTV (minus the "M") is a barometer for what irks us IMHO. Music Television minus the music.

Kind of like AMC (American Move Classics)... it used to play classic B&W movies like daylong marathons of Bob Hope/Bing Crosby movies... now a classic movie is dated circa year 2002-2004... ahh I didn't know the word "classic" had been redefined to "that which can get us the best ratings".

The same poison is infecting the SciFi channel (what should have been the intellectual bastion defending against such hipocrisy). Newp newp newp. They murdered Farscape because they needed a new "politically correct" feminine touch to the channel ~ a madame Hitler at the helm. Screw the fans... screw the ratings... give me advertising dollars.

It's ok though... we now have "Ghost Stories" on SciFi chan... oh that is just SOOOOOOOOO SciFi.

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Friday, October 28, 2005 3:23 AM

THESENTINEL

Hey, if everyone was smart we wouldn't have anyone to look down on. Wait...that sounded bad...well anyway.

If everyone watched Firefly then we wouldn't be special...short bus? No...

If everyone watched Firefly then it would still be on the air... :crao:

Oh HELL!

I still feel better than those other morons...

Adam

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Friday, October 28, 2005 3:38 AM

XEROGRAVITY

loosely interpreted.. SciFi chan needs to resume it's mission. Put SciFi on the air.

New eps of Firefly should be headlining their primetime slots, but newp. We get "Ghost Stories" instead. Bunch of Jersey guys in a repainted plumbing van playing games with filtered cameras.

It's all just so... so... so scifi. Not to be confused with the "other" ghost chasers on "Family Channel".

bah

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Friday, October 28, 2005 7:13 AM

SICKDUDE

Vancouver, THANK YOU! That was exactly what I was going to say! And you said it a lot more articulately than I could have. ("I don't know what I'm saying. I never know what I'm saying." Feeling your pain, River..) The counterproof to this theory is that everyone I know who saw it (except one) has loved it. I believe the problem is mis-conceptions going into it. I've heard people say "I thought I wouldn't like it because I never saw the show".

Also, thanks for not forgetting about our sworn enemies.

"Don't say 'ka' until you've tried it." Daniel Jackson

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Friday, October 28, 2005 9:35 AM

CHINDI

Adam..

you ARE the hero of Canton and this thread as well..lmao here...

Chindi (wants to go to the wretched planet where there is a statue to her too...)

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Friday, October 28, 2005 10:13 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by UnregisteredCompanion:
Look at all those terrible movies that have made 100-200 million dollars. Hitch? Deep Impact? Crocodile Dundee II? Total CRAP! Yet people went in droves to these movies.

Aww...I liked Deep Impact and Hitch...

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Friday, October 28, 2005 2:27 PM

PURPLEYIN

Quote:
I believe the problem is mis-conceptions going into it. I've heard people say "I thought I wouldn't like it because I never saw the show".

You raise a point most people circumvent. Allot of people I know didn’t go to see the film on the grounds that, here, its advertised as 'the film by the guy that made buffy and angel!'... and not everyone takes that as a good thing.

I’ve nothing against buffy and angel. I used to watch them with my sister when they were on, but still it’s not what allot of mainstream want, so it instantly alienated a large segment of the target market.

meh, im gonna make this my last 'what could have been done to promote serenity with a possible greater efficiency' post, its unhealthy, and unhelpful, i know...

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Friday, October 28, 2005 8:13 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

Serenity and Firefly are just too smart. People no longer seem to appreciate smart entertainment. It's really quite sad. If you look at some of the old children's cartoons like the 90's Batman, Pinky and the Brain and The Tick, you'd realize that they are a hell of a lot smarter and wittier than the majority of the shows on tv today.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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