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Originally posted by DKA0:
It’s Capitalism at work.

There is a definite need for digital media to be distributed throughout the internet, the media companies refuse to do this. The demand is still there, and will be filled. If there was a legal option to download the move (now or later) most people are downloading it would opt for this route. But as the industry cannot see two months down the road and are afraid of change and what it would mean to their distribution channel it only fuels the piracy.

The new technology (internet) is a global commodity, it isn’t and cannot be bound by local laws.

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Originally posted by R1Z:
Angelcrusherd, let's recap:

1. You know it's illegal, you don't care.

2. You have read that many of us, nominally your peer group, consider it WRONG, you don't care.

3. You concede that the owners of the intellectual property at issue oppose your appropriating it. You don't care.

4. What you propose is contrary to the ethical system of the P2P network, but you don't care.

5. Big corporations deserve to have their assets pilfered. The retired shareholders who live on the dividends, either through direct investment, mutual funds or pension funds, don't really need all that money, anyway.

6. For some reason incomprehensible to the rest of us, you feel that paying the purchase price for what you have gotten fairly entitles you to additional goods and services. Please advise me--So far I've purchased 2 sets of Firefly (donated one to the public library, loan out the other), nine comic books, one action figure, one copy of The Serenity Visual Companion, and 8 movie tickets. What am I entitled to, beyond what I paid for?


May we assume that, in the fine tradition of Ghandi-an Civil Disobedience, you will notify the MPAA, Universal Studios, Mr. Whedon and your local authorities when you obtain another's intellectual property by illegal means? Proudly taking this step will allow you to explain your justifications to those most directly involved.

From the MPAA website:

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The Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) and its international counterpart, the Motion Picture Association (MPA), estimate that the U.S. motion picture industry loses in excess of $3 billion annually in potential worldwide revenue due to piracy. Due to the difficulty in calculating Internet piracy losses, these figures are NOT currently included in the overall loss estimates. However, it is safe to assume Internet losses cause untold additional damages to the industry.

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Assuming a budget of $60M per sequel, $3 Billion equates to 500 sequels, with no recouping of investment needed. They could open with NO admission charge.

And as to your, "I'm addicted, I can't wait 7 weeks with only my 14 original episodes to watch" argument, what are you going to do 3 months after Serenity comes out on DVD when there's no new material after that?




To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Originally posted by khimbar:

Normal quality for P2P movies yes. But for newsgroups it's poop.

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Originally posted by Evans:

To All of You:

Please see this article from "The New Yorker" magazine about plagiarism and intellectual property.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?041122fa_fact

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I 'FEEL' that I am entitled because it is infact what I feel. It is my opinion as a human being, if you're denying that it is my opinion then you need to turn your computer off and hang yourself.

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I find it extremely humorous that you will piss and moan and throw a gorram tantrum in this thread for my downloading a movie yet you give a copy of Firefly to the library for anyone to watch. For free.

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You obviously feel that you're a gung-ho righteous saint with your perfect morals and "yessa massa" attitude towards authority.

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I have already proven myself to myself, I don't need any justification from you or any of the fake Browncoats out there.

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I would like to enjoy this board, not having to argue with fools who claim to be a fan yet act completely opposite of the series' theme.

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Originally posted by R1Z:

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Now keep in mind, I am not saying that it is legal. Of course it is illegal. But as I said before, Texas still has a sodomy law on the books.

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The U.S. Supreme Court struck down the Texas sodomy statutes nearly a year ago. You really should get out more.

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Originally posted by Sep7imus:

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Originally posted by DKA0:
It’s Capitalism at work.

There is a definite need for digital media to be distributed throughout the internet, the media companies refuse to do this. The demand is still there, and will be filled. If there was a legal option to download the move (now or later) most people are downloading it would opt for this route. But as the industry cannot see two months down the road and are afraid of change and what it would mean to their distribution channel it only fuels the piracy.

The new technology (internet) is a global commodity, it isn’t and cannot be bound by local laws.

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By this argument, selling drugs (for which there is a definite demand) wouldn't be immoral. Is that your position? (It could be your position. I really don't know.)

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Finally, let me just point out that "capitalism at work" is exactly the reason FOR copyright (which you may not be arguing against, but I think it needs to be said here). Copyright exists because if we didn't give creators of intellectual property control over the distribution and sale of their work, they would have little to no reason (under capitalism) to create them in the first place. Copyright exists to encourage creativity. As long as we're capitalist, which is to say, as long as profit motive is what we assume motivates people, we need copyright to allow people to profit from creative enterprises. (All of the Browncoat activities trying to get people to go see the movie are basically about this, recognizing that making something profitable is the way to continue its existence under capitalism.)

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My point is that legal does not equal moral.

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And you still keep saying that right vs. wrong still boils down to whether or not someone tells you it is okay (presumably the copyright holder).

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But you still cannot demonstrate to me how you can own an idea, or why it is important.

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And you are still coming off as a condescending, self-righteous windbag. Yes, perhaps I do need to 'get out more'. However I am of the opinion that you should yourself.

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Originally posted by R1Z:
If I create a chair in my workshop and display it on the front porch, does that entitle you to take control of it?

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Originally posted by R1Z:
When you got married, did you have a commercial photographer take pictures? I have never heard of a commercial photographer selling his negatives as part of the package. He'll sell you as many prints as you want, but not the negative. Commercial photography, and this practice and principle have been around for more than a century.

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Originally posted by R1Z:

I would be impressed with a logical argument explaining why someone's private property should become public property, and please don't tell me that it's because this is a digital age and that distribution can't be controlled. That the looting in New Orleans could not be controlled did not make it right. Taking that which does not belong to you is theft, no matter how many people do it.

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Originally posted by R1Z:
If I create a chair in my workshop and display it on the front porch, does that entitle you to take control of it?
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Is it theft if I go and make an exact duplicate of the chair and do not sell it?

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I agree that theft is wrong. What you have not yet shown is how downloading Serenity under the conditions stated in the original post is theft and wrong. I agree that under current law it is illegal, but can you tell me how it is THEFT or WRONG?

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BitTorrent shakes hands with MPAA 11:04AM
BitTorrent has shaken hands with the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) and has agreed to try to help stem the amount of illegal downloads of movies and other digital content through its site. As a result of the agreement, BitTorrent will work to remove any copyright material that appears in its search engine.
The announcement was made by Bram Cohen, the founder and chief executive of BitTorrent, alongside Dan Glickman, chairman of the MPAA at a news conference in Los Angeles.

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