Preacher's origin by DeckardBR

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Preacher's origin

POSTED BY: DECKARDBR
UPDATED: Thursday, October 27, 2005 15:14
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Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:43 PM

Hi, this is my first time posting to the message board, seems like a great community.

Being a recent convert to Firefly (after seeing the film, watched all 14 episodes immediatly), Im curious if theres been any more information given by Whedon or the show's writers about Shepherd's origins other than what was on the show.

My guess is that at some point he was a soldier or some kind of hero for the Alliance before giving up on the orginization, perhaps seeing how corrupt they were etc.

Any thoughts?

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:55 PM

VOLUNTEER

No, not really. I guess we'll never know for sure where the character was headed.

Although, on my second run through the movie I noticed Book seemed to have some insight for Mal into the Operative before Mal even meets the Operative. Perhaps Book had been a member of Parliament or an Operative himself?

Joss likes to leave a few things open to interpretation. And why not? Mystery and speculation are what create fanboys. LOL.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:59 PM

THESENTINEL

Again...loose ends not tied up equal more reasons to do another season. :)

AND WATCH WITH THE SPOILERS!!!

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 4:25 PM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

Yup...I am thinking retired Operative..with a lot to attone for. That is why he went to the abby...guilty conscience.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 4:25 PM

SMOKE

He is an ex-Operative, it makes sense if you think about it.

Smoke em, if you got em.

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Monday, October 24, 2005 8:14 AM

PURPLEYIN

plus we know that Book is a Believer, which seems to be a prerequisite.

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Monday, October 24, 2005 8:32 AM

URSULA

Yeah, I'd say he was like the operative's operative, la creme de la creme of the merciless killing set.

One thing that has puzzles me is in "Objects in Space" River's little "read" of Book: "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not." Where's that comin' from?!

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Monday, October 24, 2005 9:27 AM

MADRIK

River is a reader. I think she knows.

Anyway, keep in mind of Book's 'ident' card in... that one episode. And yes, Book knows quite a bit about crime, the Alliance and its operations... also, he did in fact shoot that Alliance ship down that was burning Haven. So apparently he has... excuse me... had... some keen knowledge on weapons use.

"I wasn't born a shepard, Mal."

The world may never know.... dun dun DUN!

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Monday, October 24, 2005 10:16 AM

MALECHI

I was disappointed that there wasn't an answer to the question who is Shepard Book. Referring to Book's past Malcolm says "You'll have to tell me about that someday." to which Shepherd Book simply replies "No, I don't."

Myself, I tend to believe he was a central alliance Bounty Hunter/Assassin in the same vein as Jubal Early from the episode "Objects in Space" and the operative from the movie "Serenity", who later found religion.

Here are the clues:
1) Book's weapon proficiency in the episode "War Stories" when attempting to rescue Mal.

2) Book's knowledge of central alliance proceedure in the episode "The Message" while running from Lt. Womack's ship seem confirm this.

3) The biggest clue is, of course, the guards reaction to Book's ID when he is injured and needs medical attention in the episode "Safe".

But, I guess we may never know.

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Monday, October 24, 2005 2:08 PM

DECKARDBR

Quote:
Originally posted by Ursula:
Yeah, I'd say he was like the operative's operative, la creme de la creme of the merciless killing set.

One thing that has puzzles me is in "Objects in Space" River's little "read" of Book: "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not." Where's that comin' from?!

I took this to mean that even though she seems like an innocent girl, Book doesn't care and just as well would have her off the ship. Or at least thats how she read it.

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Monday, October 24, 2005 3:47 PM

PYROFALKON

I thought the ex-operative story made sense, but i never thought it would work. Would the alliance really just let him run around with all those secrets in his head? The preacher-with-a-past theory makes slightly more sense if it's a

An ex-con. Perhaps at one time worse and more sadistic than Adelei Niska, but who had since found religion?

b

A member of a specialized order of the apparently very influential 'church' that pervades the 'verse. An order that is akin to pre-industrial Jesuits in terms of information gathering & problem solving for the church hierarchy. This would explain the Ident Card respect as who wouldn't fall over themselves if the card said the equivalent of 'Cardinal Such-and-such, Spanish Inquistion' or 'Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (current Pope Benedict XVI's former

or simply c

A double agent for Independents who had infiltrated Alliance trust?

i dare not mention the HOBgoblins.

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Monday, October 24, 2005 11:28 PM

PURPLEYIN

the operatives dont know any secrets, they just guard them.

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Monday, October 24, 2005 11:33 PM

N0SKILLZ

He has a point. I think thats why the alliance isn't looking for him.

-----------------
"It's not that there HAS to be a sequel. It's just that I've got so many IDEAS..."-Joss Whedon
*Andersen AFB, Guam*

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:58 AM

DONCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by DeckardBR:
Quote:
Originally posted by Ursula:
Yeah, I'd say he was like the operative's operative, la creme de la creme of the merciless killing set.

One thing that has puzzles me is in "Objects in Space" River's little "read" of Book: "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not." Where's that comin' from?!

I took this to mean that even though she seems like an innocent girl, Book doesn't care and just as well would have her off the ship. Or at least thats how she read it.

Possible, but not certain. River may have been picking up on one of Book's memories of an earlier interrogation. That is, the phrase may not have been directed at River at all.

It may have been a clue to Book's past, without telling us anything about his feelings toward River.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:03 AM

DONCOAT

There's another possibility for Book that I haven't seen mentioned (at least not recently). Maybe Book is a former Blue Hands Guy.

One thing we learn in the comics is that

Select to view spoiler:

the Blue Hands Guys are hired guns -- private contractors employed by the Alliance to track down River.

If they are also connected to Blue Sun, which has close ties to the Alliance government, then they would have plenty of knowledge about how the Alliance thinks and acts.

Maybe Book got sick of making people's brains melt.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:04 AM

ZARNYWHOOP

I,m thinking that he was the General commanding Alliancs forces at the battle of Serinity Valley.

ZW

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:56 PM

PYROFALKON

Quote:
Originally posted by Zarnywhoop:
I,m thinking that he was the General commanding Alliancs forces at the battle of Serinity Valley.

ZW

That is good. I never considered that before. But I must ask. If he was a general at the battle of serenity, why has the alliance not executed him?

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:18 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

I doubt that Book was an Operative. The Alliance would never let an Operative leave alive. He had to have been powerful enough or had enough connections to leave alive and still be able to retain some authority within the Alliance. I think that he either trained Operatives or he created the Operative program in the first place.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:50 PM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

I don't think the general option is right. He knows damned sketchy things. Let's list what we know about our shepherd, besides that he's a shepherd.

-He never married or had children
This may not say anything about his secret, but he's very particular about it. Does that mean he's adhered to the rules of his order from a rather young age? Or that he's proud of retroactively following them? ...Not sure what I can take from this bit of info, but it's worth remembering anyway.
-He knows about Adelai Niska
He has connections with the underworld. It may be something like Mal's, or it may be for law-enforcement, but it could be something darker as well. None of these suggest "general" to me.
-He can shoot guns. He is an excellent aim.
I don't think any of us believe it's for rabbits. He was a fighter, not a corporate head or an organizer of any program.
-He is respected by the Alliance
He was either an important Alliance agent/official or someone who had good relationship with the Alliance (e.g. Blue Sun)
-Early knows he's not a shepherd
This may just be Early being crazy, but it's also possible he either knows something about Book or has sufficient intuition to tell there's something besides preacherhood going on there.
-He cares about being a good shepherd.
If he's still an agent of somebody's, that overlaps with being an actual shepherd. It's also possible that he's retired and atoning for sins.
-He doesn't give half a hump if you're innocent or not. So where does that put us?
That bit--everyone else's River-read thoughts are current. I don't think this is a distant memory. We don't know if his comment is to Jayne or River. Jayne and Simon look at River when they say thoughts about her. Inara looks at her even though her thought is addressed to Mal. So there is no need to assume he is talking about River. He could be speaking of anyone, although it would be easier if we assumed it was to one of the people in the room with him.
"Innocence"...an idea important to both law and religion.

...I don't really have a conclusion, but I would discard the possibilities of general, bureaucrat, or scientist, or of someone lying about his religiosity. He sincerely wants to be a good christian, but he also has a very ugly side. Ah, Book, my favourite enigma.

Ex-operative fits, but I think his ugly side is not just in the past, so I'm going to keep on with my speculations until I find something better.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:37 PM

PURPLEYIN

Regarding the last point about humping, if Book left whatever order he belonged to prior to the religious one, he probably left because he found out something that disillusioned him. So he would be penitent. Constantly thinking of all the things he did retrospectively that he now feels were wrong. It would make sense that these things would always be on his mind. Things like interrogations of people that probably were innocent.

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:51 AM

WRONGRYAN

The Bible says 'thou thal not kill', but it,s a little fuzzy on kneecaps.

I think possibly he was high up in the Alliance and juble probably worked for him, or with him in one capacity or another.

In order for his ID card to still hold Weight with the Alliance must meen he still has some conection to them without actually being a part of it.

Don't forget he got his card out infront of the whole crew.

You would think that Mal would have all the same suspicions and not only voice them to other crew members but interigate Book as well. If there is a possibility that Book is still with the Alliance, don't you think Mal would have dealt with that by now.

You could speculate till your head falls of and never come any where near to the real answer.
If Mr Whedon is reading these he must be enjoying toying with our brains.

All hail the puppet master.

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:09 PM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Quote:
Originally posted by WrongRyan:
I think possibly he was high up in the Alliance and juble probably worked for him, or with him in one capacity or another.

Unlikely. Jubal Early is an independent contractor.

Quote:
In order for his ID card to still hold Weight with the Alliance must meen he still has some conection to them without actually being a part of it.

Retirees like, say, professor emeritus or ex-president, get lots of respect, but are no longer part of their former institution.

Quote:
You would think that Mal would have all the same suspicions and not only voice them to other crew members but interigate Book as well. If there is a possibility that Book is still with the Alliance, don't you think Mal would have dealt with that by now.

Mal of the series, hell, even Mal of the movie is not the type to interrogate. Mal never becomes evil. The shepherd has been a good friend to the rest of them and has not shown himself to be any kind of threat. Remember Inara is respected by the Alliance as a registered Companion. Do you want Mal to interrogate her (kinky!)? ...Maybe Book is a registered companion too --didn't think of that, did ya?!

Quote:
You could speculate till your head falls of and never come any where near to the real answer.
If Mr Whedon is reading these he must be enjoying toying with our brains.

All hail the puppet master.

Or we could speculate and be right on. You never know, which is why speculation is such fun.

Mr. Whedon is enjoying toying with our brains whether he reads these or not. Why do you think he plays the creepy academy guy in the River Tam sessions?

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:14 PM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Oooh! New theory: The "half a hump" line was directed to himself. There's some self-anger! You know when you feel guilty about what you've done, and you try to convince yourself you didn't really mean it? He could be telling himself, it doesn't matter if you meant it--you did it.

What do you think?

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

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