Thinking like a reaver! - spoilers, I guess by Sickdude

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Thinking like a reaver! - spoilers, I guess

POSTED BY: SICKDUDE
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 22:50
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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:48 PM

So, I was thinking....

As always, sorry if this has been presented before. Much of this is predicated on the theory that Reavers "don't lie down", i.e. don't sleep. This seems reasonable since the Pax caused the "opposite" effect in them. Also, that the reavers were on Miranda's surface originally and then, as the Pax took effect, felt the need to board spaceships and leave- a very deliberate and difficult endeavor.

1. No reavers on Miranda. Besides the fact that we didn't see any in the BDM, I just don't think they go there. A taboo world, if you will. The reavers may have felt "funny" about watching their homeworld and its citizens die as the Pax was taking effect. Remember, they used to be their friends and family. (The lady who left the hologram was an outsider sent by the Alliance to check on them.)

2. Live meat versus dead. None of the bodies on Miranda showed any signs of violence (or teethmarks). Further, as the Reavers succumbed to the Pax, they must have been surrounded by dead and dying people- again, some friends and family. On the order of 1,000 bodies to each Reaver. Maybe this is why they don't eat the dead. I can't say if this was vestigial propriety or just not wanting to eat someone you once knew. But maybe the bodies creep them out, and they won't have anything to do with the dead.

3. Violence. First of all, they're very 'twitchy' from sleep deprivation. Then their aggression goes through the roof. But what if another cause is that they hate the Alliance and outsiders. They may also know that it was the Pax that destroyed their world. And maybe they blame the Alliance for it. In their state of mind, that may rub off to any outsider/ anyone not from Miranda. Also, this may be why they don't attack each other.

4. Was the Pax meant to head off aggression and ultimately rebellion before the war started???

Reaver humor: "Sorry I'm late, but I cut myself shaving." Har, har

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:56 PM

AMYLISAI

Huh, some very interesting theories. I don't see why you couldn't be right...

Thanks!

Amylisai, Crazy Sister of Destiny Flying

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:02 PM

GOATTAIL

There are no Reavers on Miranda because there is nobody to eat there, I woundt imagine the reavers have any taboos. From space they can launch raids on other worlds and ships so why bother living on a dead world and having to launch everytime they need a snack.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:36 PM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Quote:
Originally posted by Goattail:
There are no Reavers on Miranda because there is nobody to eat there, I woundt imagine the reavers have any taboos. From space they can launch raids on other worlds and ships so why bother living on a dead world and having to launch everytime they need a snack.

Simple. Because it's cheap. Air, water, food (they can eat things other than human, you know, even if they have a preference) are easy in the world, but in space you need to bring all that, and fuel as well.

I imagine it's a matter of taboo. I don't think I'd like to live in a place where everyone I knew died (and is still lying around dead). Also, memories of being a sane human are probably uncomfortable. They have to be reavers, I think, to survive. It may not be chemical effects of the Pax at all that made them so. It may be they saw the way everybody became passive and died, and the only way the could be was to become as un-passive as possible. Sort of similar to the way the man in Bushwhacked became a reaver.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:08 PM

TWEEK128

Y'know, it's pathetic, but I didn't catch the "They never lie down" reference until my second viewing.

I imagine they sleep, but I think that they are almost always hyper-aggressive, so sleeping involves taking precautions I won't begin speculating on.

I'd tend to agree that they came about due to not just the Pax, but an actual response. Remember, River reads thoughts, so in the Reavers mind was probably something like "NEVER LIE DOWN! THEY LAID DOWN BUT I NEVER WILL! YOU MADE THEM LIE DOWN BUT I NEVER WILL! WE NEVER WILL!"

Miranda might have become a Browncoat world, hence the experimentation, so I imagine the Reaver mindset--such as it is past the rabid insanity--is predominantly anti-Alliance, but also anti-anyone-not-us.

I mean, hell, they're conscious enough to customize ships for their purposes. I think they still harbor want of revenge amidst all the desire to rape and kill and mutilate. It doesn't cause the desires, but gives them purpose.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:14 PM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Revenge would only be a thing for Mirandan reavers. Remember, they got new recruits as well.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:42 PM

TWEEK128

I'd imagine the Mirandan contingent makes up more than the lion's share, though. Their attacks don't leave room for much conscription, and I don't see them having recruiting offices anywhere in the 'verse.

I really wonder about that guy in Bushwhacked though. I mean, why him? I imagine out of any one attack, they leave at most a couple folks alive, but why and to what end? And, no, I don't mean the ones they keep to take back for later. I mean like that guy in Bushwhacked. The ones they take to convert or press.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:03 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

I don't think that "don't lie down" means that they don't sleep. It's not possible for them to stay awake for that long. After three days of sleep depravation people will start to have delusions and hallucinations. After that people have periods of micro-sleep, periods of sleep lasting a few seconds. After enough sleep depravation, people die.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:17 PM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Quote:
Originally posted by TWEEK128:
I'd imagine the Mirandan contingent makes up more than the lion's share, though. Their attacks don't leave room for much conscription, and I don't see them having recruiting offices anywhere in the 'verse.

Heh. Reaver recruiting stations: Travel the 'verse, go to exotic places, meet interesting people, then rape them to death, eat their flesh, and stitch their skins into your clothing. ...Be all you can be!

Quote:
I really wonder about that guy in Bushwhacked though. I mean, why him? I imagine out of any one attack, they leave at most a couple folks alive, but why and to what end? And, no, I don't mean the ones they keep to take back for later. I mean like that guy in Bushwhacked. The ones they take to convert or press.

It must be common enough that Mal would know about it. I think its a little extra bit of sadism. Like the booby trap, a little thank you note left to whoever drops by.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:57 PM

MALRIVER

Actually I think that Bushwhacked episode should be understood a lot differently after seeing Serenity.

First thing you have to keep in mind is that all what Mal said was right (He thought that Reaver were men who had been to the edge of space...). I think he was just guessing as he talked to the Alliance official. You can also spot one contradiiction in his logic: he is unequovical that if he had met the wouldn't be around to tell the tale, then he says that the Reavers just let some random guy live... Or maybe the guy was hiding...

Anway, I was saying, yeah the transport ship came from a terraformed world. There was also no sign of a struggle... It is possible that was our first true hint of how Reacers came to be. The terraformed planet might have been another experiment with Pax. The effects went into terminal stages while they were on the trip and they became docile... except one... It would also appear that the Reaver effect takes a little longer to kick in than the peaceful effect. Which would explain why we have those peaceful deaths on Miransa instead of corpses left by Reavers; when they became Reavers everybody else was already dead.

It ties up some loose ends. Can you really see a normal passenger vessel just giving in meekly o Reavers without a struggle?

Oh yeah, the real point of this thread, thinking lke a reaver. I think Mal got i right, they are not men. Tey don't think. They just feel, mostly an overload of anger. Which doesn't stop them from some complex things; just like a squirrel can hide its nut even though it doesn't think... River reacts so strongly because what she reads is 'just' raw powerful evil emotion....

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:28 PM

DREAMTROVE

Okay this was the BDT before. So yeah, lots of this was posted but it's a good subject.

Some of what was said there I have to reiterate. Some of it was said by me, others by other people, but basically here it is.

1. Why go to Miranda? There's no food there, and it's a tremendous expenditure of fuel to land and take off. far greater than the fuel cost of going from one planet to the next in space. I really have to agree with no taboo, why go there. it is probably lifeless, foodless, and taking off is not cheap.

2. I think that the dead meat issue relates to the whole shark/wolf thing. Dead things are often diseased and many animals won't eat them. Reavers have some essential human part of their brains switched off to make them revert to animal.

3. Anyone who has taken sedatives may be familiar with the paradoxical effect. Your body needs to overcome the sedative in order to live, you become very, well reaverish. But there's something else going on here as well. There may be an organism or virus, or prion, that maintains the reaver state or feeds off of it. A permanent change has been created, and that permanent change is contagious at least at some level. I agree with whoever first posted last "You get it if you eat reaver flesh, and reavers make you do this." I think it was Doncoat.

4. Reavers probably don't sleep much. They clearly do hallucinate. They are in a hyper state of not being able to sleep. If anyone's had severe insomnia, they're familiar with the lying in bed for eight hours unable to sleep, not much happens then. It's a good way to go insane. Anyway, I think it's part of the reaver mindset.

5. I think reaver transfomation, contagious reaverism is rare. Reavers have some element of contagious PAX, or perhaps they bring it with them, and intentionally use it. If so, it prevents people from being able to fight, and that's why no one ever wins battles with reavers. Then a very few of those will actually have the reavers reaction and reaverize, and fight, and then they become a reaver.

I think they think. They just ain't men. They don't think like men.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:01 PM

DREAMTROVE

Walk like a Reaver, Talk like a Reaver, but I know, You're an assassin in disguise, oh yes you are...

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:06 PM

TWEEK128

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
5. I think reaver transfomation, contagious reaverism is rare. Reavers have some element of contagious PAX, or perhaps they bring it with them, and intentionally use it. If so, it prevents people from being able to fight, and that's why no one ever wins battles with reavers. Then a very few of those will actually have the reavers reaction and reaverize, and fight, and then they become a reaver.

I think they think. They just ain't men. They don't think like men.

I think it's more because they're smarter hunters. If they had some contagious pax which they could intentionally use, I'm fairly certain it would have been brought along and used during the assault. That would also require a measure of planning and maintenance that does not jibe with your otherwise consistent concept of Reavers.

Oh, and what about the ships? Fixing up the ships to be the killing machines they are takes work. As does "decorating" them. Not something animals would be capable of.

Also, I agree with the microsleep thing. That may be all they get, but I'd imagine their bodies have to shut down at some point. I wonder, too, how Reavers conduct themselves amongst themselves. If we ever saw that, I think that would answer a lot of our questions.

I mean, hell, you saw the two ships working to rip apart that one. There's obviously communication ship-to-ship, so it's not just grunting and glancing.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:50 PM

PURPLEYIN

Yeah, some parts of the brain that aren’t usually must be 'switched on' but apart from that psychosis doesn’t make you stupid, it just alters your reasoning and perception. so the reavers don’t land on the dead planet for fuel expenditure, and have the inelegance to repair their ships (not well, but it was unlikely that the 0.1% that were reaved were mechanics. probably large media company executives or some such so they’d fix engines without containment and stuff...)

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