Questions on movie (spoilers) by RiverNot

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Questions on movie (spoilers)

POSTED BY: RIVERNOT
UPDATED: Sunday, October 30, 2005 09:51
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Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:21 PM

I have three questions regarding the BDM. I've been off-line for a while, so forgive me if these questions have already been posted and send me in the right direction to read up on others' thoughts.

1. When the operative is looking at Mal's file, it says he was a captain in the Independent Army. Huh?? I thought he was a sargeant. What happened?

2. When River was locked up in the closet and Jayne went to check on her, do you suppose River had tweaked his mind to get him to do just that? Seemed like it to me.

3. Do you think the operative committed seppuku after Serenity left? After all, he failed at his mission. I think it doesn't matter that he found out the Parliment wasn't what he thought they were and they weren't creating a perfect world, he'd still failed at stopping River. Also, he tells Mal that Mal won't see him again because there's nothing left.

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Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:32 PM

JACQUI

1. Good question. I hadn't thought about that. Maybe he was promoted by the end of the war?

2. I don't think she can tweak peoples' minds. I think she knew what was on his mind, that she knew he was going to come into the hold to take her away from the ship and used that knowledge to her advantage, but I doubt she was able to control him like that. (If that was the case, she wouldn't have needed to knock Simon out to prevent him using the safe word and putting her to sleep).

3. Yes, I do think that. When Mal says "If I see you again...", the Operative answers "there's nothing left to see", where Mal had gained the ability to have faith during the movie, the Operative lost his. I believe he went off to fall on his sword.

I could be wrong, though, Joss always proves me wrong.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

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Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:52 PM

RIVERNOT

Quote:
Originally posted by Jacqui:
I think she knew what was on his mind,...used that knowledge to her advantage, but I doubt she was able to control him like that.

Ooh, I hadn't thought of it that way. That does make more sense, within the context of what else is going on, than what I had been thinking.

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Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:55 PM

INSANITYLATER

I had noticed the Captain title in the movie. I had assumed it was ether a flat out mistake or was there so as not to cause confusion to people who had not watched the series.

"Serenity NOW!!! ... Insanity later."

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Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:07 PM

BARCLAY

3. He's alive and well. I think we saw it was pretty clear the implication that Book was formerly an Operative. Well, now the Operative is looking for something to have faith it, having lost in faith in everything that came before. Meaning, he's off in some monestary somewhere where Mal and co. aren't likely to find him.

"You are on the Global Frequency."
http://www.frequencysite.com
http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com

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Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:15 PM

DONCOAT

1) The database also indicates that Mal was cited for valor, specifically for the Battle of Serenity Valley. That suggests that the war went on long enough after the battle for decorations to be awarded by the Independent side.

We also know he ended up in command of a lot of people after that battle due to attrition of more senior officers. Therefore it's possible he got a field commission to the rank of captain, and the war ended so quickly that it was never revoked.

Of course, another possibility is that the Alliance database was in error.

3) I think Joss meant this to be deliberately ambiguous.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

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Sunday, October 30, 2005 2:39 AM

EMPTY

1.I reckon that the alliance just have different ranking system, i think they just equivalated the independence rank of sergeant to the alliance equivalent of captain, something along those lines

Haken needs a new development system. Donate.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283

--'look if you need me just run in circles, shouting my name and waving banners with my name on them...when you've done that for, what, say 3 hours; you can...you know...like phone me : P'

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Sunday, October 30, 2005 5:52 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
1) The database also indicates that Mal was cited for valor, specifically for the Battle of Serenity Valley. That suggests that the war went on long enough after the battle for decorations to be awarded by the Independent side.

We also know he ended up in command of a lot of people after that battle due to attrition of more senior officers. Therefore it's possible he got a field commission to the rank of captain, and the war ended so quickly that it was never revoked.

Of course, another possibility is that the Alliance database was in error.

3) I think Joss meant this to be deliberately ambiguous.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

Field promotion is a good possibility, also maybe he had 'aquired' some Captain's documents/ID codes/whatever when he had taken on leadership...
Alliance database error is a VERY intreging possibility,
we know that Joss crawled over this movie frame by frame for months, so I'm kinda thinking that any mistakes that are there, are purposeful...
and will be uncovered in future comics (or the longed for sequel).

Regarding the Operative: I'm not sure he would be willing to fall on his sword for the Alliance (and it would benefit them to have all he knows die with him). The Alliance stripped him of his name and his life...he is nothing now...but it turns out his sacrifies were all for nothing.
The Alliance was lying to him, they were not creating the better world he longed for....

I'm thinking they are gonna pay for that.

I'm thinking that we might see the Operative again, when we least expect him
(I can't wait)

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse,
and have you joined the Browncoats yet?
http://browncoats.serenitymovie.com/serenity/?fuseaction=tools.invlink
&u=embers&linkID=36

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Sunday, October 30, 2005 6:41 AM

SHINYSEVEN2

IIRC someone also pointed out that Mal's birthdate has GOT to be wrong because it would make him far too old.

I think Serenity-the-Pilot clearly shows that Mal wasn't interested in promotion--he hands the Lieutenant's insignia to someone else instead of "promoting" himself. And as for every frame of the film being carefully edited--hey, there was a famous contracts case of a legal document going out calling for payment of $46,987 for an office building instead of $46,987,000, and you better believe a lot of people checked THAT over.

Oh, and I think that the Operative didn't kill himself, he went to work for Niska. Who, as we know, survived "War Stories" but probably not in any very upbeat frame of mind.

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Sunday, October 30, 2005 9:51 AM

LIMINALOSITY

1. I second what Don wrote.

2. I think River nudges Simon a bit, but I don't think she tries to influence any of the others. Controling others is the 'dark side' of being psychic, and I don't think our River would go there. She might go back and forth a bit with Simon, but I think that's more in the way of brother/sister connection than control. I think what we're seeing in the scene where Jayne slams down the saki cup and goes to take River for a 'nice shuttle ride', is only River's awareness of Jayne's thought process, and Jayne's decision to act.

On the other hand, there were flashes that the pressure of being alone in the dark with the secret was beginning to cause River to tip slightly toward becoming a Reaver (like the guy in Bushwacked), so in my interp, there's the possibility that if she spent much longer with the secret locked inside, she might have become Reaver herself, but that wasn't happening yet.

3. Definitely seppuku in my interp. The op had given up all of himself to the cause (he says to Dr Mathais that he has no name or rank), and as I see it, seppuku is the most logical conclusion: he had already removed revenge from his nature, in service to his belief.

My view is that all operatives wouldn't necessarily follow this same samurai inspired path. Early, in OiS was a bird of a very different feather, and I think Book's fanaticism would have worn a different face as well. I think the style of training is not a specific path for operatives, only the outcome of devotion to the cause.

Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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