Serenity book. by Kloud

If you're referring to the movie novelization, I didn't think much of it. I found myself rewriting it line by line as I read it -- that's a sure sign that a book isn't written as well as it might have been.

For contrast, I rarely find myself doing that with the Harry Potter books, or other well-written material (such as Watership Down, another of my all-time favorites).

What specific things didn't I like? For one thing, the narrative voice keeps changing. Sometimes it's written from Mal's perspective, using a Mal-ish dialect. Other parts are written from other's points of view, using different dialects. The perspective sometimes changes several times within a single chapter.

The author also adds some details that I can't imagine were Joss-authorized. For example, supposedly Serenity was flown from Mr. Universe's planetoid to Haven with only one thruster -- that's just plain impossible, barring some totally new physics.

Maybe others weren't as sensitive to these things as I was.

By the way, Amazon is now taking orders for a book "Serenity" by Joss Whedon. That's a different thing (it's the three comics collected into a "graphic novel"). That makes... hmmm... eight different items titled "Serenity" - the pilot episode, the movie, the movie novelization, the Visual Companion, three comics, and the graphic novel. Confused yet?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 28, 2005 8:32 PM

Sorry the book didn't work so well for you, though for what it's worth, multiple POVs is a fairly common narrative device.

As for the final scenes, first of all, the whole book was Joss-authorized. Secondly, the funeral scene and the subsequent repair scene were pretty obviously not on Mr. Universe's moon, given the total lack of ion clouds in the sky in either scene, so obviously the operative's remaining ships towed them off said moon.

Keith R.A. DeCandido
keith@decandido.net
www.DeCandido.net | www.AlbeShiloh.com
www.livejournal.com/~kradical

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 28, 2005 8:39 PM

UNSARDONIC

"For contrast, I rarely find myself doing that with the Harry Potter books, or other well-written material (such as Watership Down, andother of my all-time favorites)."

--------------------

...but, but, but, but-but... am I crazy or... wasn't "Watership Down" a book beFORE it became some form of movie?

Pretty sure I'm right here...

HOHOHO

"MFTIASSOM"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 28, 2005 9:06 PM

TUDYKRAWKS

just remember that the book was written from the SHOOTING SCRIPT meaning that it wasn't written like other books are.

"mine is an evil laugh"

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 28, 2005 9:20 PM

PHOEBE

Quote:
Originally posted by KRAD:
Sorry the book didn't work so well for you, though for what it's worth, multiple POVs is a fairly common narrative device.

As for the final scenes, first of all, the whole book was Joss-authorized. Secondly, the funeral scene and the subsequent repair scene were pretty obviously not on Mr. Universe's moon, given the total lack of ion clouds in the sky in either scene, so obviously the operative's remaining ships towed them off said moon.

Keith R.A. DeCandido
keith@decandido.net
www.DeCandido.net | www.AlbeShiloh.com
www.livejournal.com/~kradical

Hey,

Congratulations on being the one to write our novel! Personally I found it an enjoyable read. But, and this isn't a critisism so much as an observation - for those not familiar with the Firefly style dialects, they might be confused with the style it's written in. Mistake that for bad writing, which clearly, it's not.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Unsardonic:

"For contrast, I rarely find myself doing that with the Harry Potter books, or other well-written material (such as Watership Down, andother of my all-time favorites)."

--------------------

...but, but, but, but-but... am I crazy or... wasn't "Watership Down" a book beFORE it became some form of movie?

Pretty sure I'm right here...

Yes it was. So were the Harry Potter books. What's your point?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by KRAD:
Sorry the book didn't work so well for you, though for what it's worth, multiple POVs is a fairly common narrative device.

As for the final scenes, first of all, the whole book was Joss-authorized. Secondly, the funeral scene and the subsequent repair scene were pretty obviously not on Mr. Universe's moon, given the total lack of ion clouds in the sky in either scene, so obviously the operative's remaining ships towed them off said moon.

Keith R.A. DeCandido
keith@decandido.net
www.DeCandido.net | www.AlbeShiloh.com
www.livejournal.com/~kradical

Well, I hardly expected my comments to go straight to the author! I might have been a little more diplomatic.

I'm a little surprised that you say the book was Joss-authorized. I've read a quote from him elsewhere that when it came to the novelization, he handed it off (the shooting script, that is) and had/wanted no further involvement. Did I misunderstand that quote? How should we resolve the apparent conflict in these statements?

When it comes to the question of where Serenity was repaired -- there's no way she could have flown off Mr. U's moon on her own, given the damage shown in the film (and, as I recall, your book also has Serenity losing one thruster). Either the repairs were done in situ, or somebody called a tow truck. Now, don't I recall a passing comment in the book that the trip to the repair yard was "interesting" because of flying on one thruster? I've gotta go look that up. If I didn't just imagine that, well, I gotta beg to differ that it would be possible.

Of course, that detail alone wouldn't have been cause for a "pan". As I said in the previous post, it failed my "mental rewrite" test, and that's the bottom line for me. I guess it's the frustrated author in me. (Anybody care to read an unpublished novel?)

Edited to add:
Quoted from the book, page 252:
"Mal stood near the cargo ramp,... getting ready to board her... for the first time since they limped to the repair station at Eavesdown Docks. ...It wasn't the best repair shop in the 'verse, but... there was only so far they'd get with only one thruster."
So they flew her from Mr.U's place to Persephone on one thruster. Nope... never happened.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:43 PM

UNSARDONIC

[ "What's your point?"]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Heh-heh... a planetary rotation has occurred since I wrote the line to which your question was directed. During that cosmic event, I fell once more into some sort of mandatory state of hibernation in which, for some reason I have never been able to understand and which has regrettably plagued me all my life.

And guess what, when I came to this morning & discovered your well-placed question (above)... I just plain couldn't remember what my point was... my ability to be logical last night must've attained a state of freakin' tenuousity the likes of which have never before been seen.

Therefore i seem to have set some new Guinness record for non sequiterian logic. I believe this may be my superpower and, hopefully, you'll find that to be some consolation inre.: my inability to answer your question.

Nuthin' personal... it's all "Part Of The Service"

HOHOHO

I seem to be "a stupid, inbred stack of meat"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 29, 2005 1:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Unsardonic:
[ "What's your point?"]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Heh-heh... a planetary rotation has occurred since I wrote the line to which your question was directed. During that cosmic event, I fell once more into some sort of mandatory state of hibernation in which, for some reason I have never been able to understand and which has regrettably plagued me all my life.

And guess what, when I came to this morning & discovered your well-placed question (above)... I just plain couldn't remember what my point was... my ability to be logical last night must've attained a state of freakin' tenuousity the likes of which have never before been seen.

Since I just watched "Objects In Space" again, I think I fully understand that particular mental state. One enters it about the time one starts thinking: "Hmmm, maybe River actually did incorporeally possess a spaceship..."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:54 PM

Quote:
I'm a little surprised that you say the book was Joss-authorized. I've read a quote from him elsewhere that when it came to the novelization, he handed it off (the shooting script, that is) and had/wanted no further involvement. Did I misunderstand that quote? How should we resolve the apparent conflict in these statements?

Do you have a citation for this quote?

FWIW, I wrote a memo to Joss when the whole thing started stating what I wanted to do and asking several questions, and he responded to it.

However, I never dealt with him, I dealt with my editor. She dealt with Universal's licensing person, who dealt with Joss's assistant, who dealt with Joss. So there was a chain of command here (waits for inevitable Jayne quote), and I didn't deal directly with him; I was told that he had final say over the book, and that the manuscript was approved with no changes.

I've only met and talked to Joss once, at San Diego, and the atmosphere there wasn't really conducive to any kind of discussion of the novelization.

Make of that what you will. *shrug*

Keith R.A. DeCandido
keith@decandido.net
www.DeCandido.net | www.AlbeShiloh.com
www.livejournal.com/~kradical

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:56 PM

Quote:
Well, I hardly expected my comments to go straight to the author! I might have been a little more diplomatic.

First of all, I've posted on this board lots of times, and I read it regularly. Secondly, the minute you post something on the web, it becomes quite public and easily findable by anyone with a modicum of skill with Google.

So never assume that anything you post on the web can't be found.......

Keith R.A. DeCandido
keith@decandido.net
www.DeCandido.net | www.AlbeShiloh.com
www.livejournal.com/~kradical

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by KRAD:
Quote:
Well, I hardly expected my comments to go straight to the author! I might have been a little more diplomatic.

First of all, I've posted on this board lots of times, and I read it regularly. Secondly, the minute you post something on the web, it becomes quite public and easily findable by anyone with a modicum of skill with Google.

So never assume that anything you post on the web can't be found.......

Although I've read this board on and off for awhile, I only started posting here in the weeks before Serenity opened. I guess I never ran into one of your posts, or never glommed onto your identity.

In any case, I don't withdraw my original comments. I only meant that I would probably have expressed them differently to your face. It wasn't like I was hiding under the Shepherd's skirts...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by KRAD:
Quote:
I'm a little surprised that you say the book was Joss-authorized. I've read a quote from him elsewhere that when it came to the novelization, he handed it off (the shooting script, that is) and had/wanted no further involvement. Did I misunderstand that quote? How should we resolve the apparent conflict in these statements?

Do you have a citation for this quote?

Unfortunately, I do not. I couldn't even be sure it was directly from a Joss interview and not third-hand (or worse). Perhaps it was my misunderstanding of someone's paraphrase of an offhand remark, and got lodged in my calcified brain cells that way.

In any case, your description of the process indicates that it was not a close collaboration, and I get the sense that even you don't know how much time Joss spent reviewing the book. So while it seems that you can legitimately claim it was authorized, I guess I'm still dubious about whether the novelization can be considered "canon".

I remember reading the very first Star Trek (TOS) novel (by David Gerrold, IIRC). It was "official" and "authorized" -- that is, he had Roddenberry's permission to use the ST universe and characters -- but it differed significantly from the show in certain technical details. Not canon, I think.

Those differences don't really mean much in the grand scheme of things -- author's license and all that -- but then someone will try to jump into a discussion about Book's past and insist that he's definitely a former Operative because it says so in the novelization. I'm saying that I wouldn't concede the point on that basis alone.

Right, I'm obsessing. I hope you sell tons of copies of the book and pour all the profits into a new season of Firefly...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:55 PM

Oh, the book probably isn't canon. Here's my next question: WHO GIVES A DAMN?

Seriously, life's way too short for me to stress about what's "real" in a fictional construct. If future iterations of Serenity/Firefly pick up on stuff I created for the novelization, great. If it doesn't, I'm not going to be any more concerned about that than I am the fact that Smallville doesn't remotely match up with the Superman comic-book mythos or that Sam Raimi's movies bear only a passing resemblance to the Spider-Man comic books that have been published since 1962 or that there's an early 19th-century novel, a late-19th-century play, and an early-20th-century movie, all called Frankenstein, all rather different from each other, despite having the same basic story of a scientist creating life from lifelessness.

Keith R.A. DeCandido
keith@decandido.net
www.DeCandido.net | www.AlbeShiloh.com
www.livejournal.com/~kradical

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 29, 2005 8:10 PM

WILKS

me being deployed to iraq i wasnt able to see the movie at first (which pissed me off since iv been waiting for it to come out since this site said it might be an idea of it comming), so i ordered the book and read it. the book was i thought very well writen and held prety good with the charectors, along with a look into the past and minds behind them. i love how u got to take a better look into rivers mind and see things from her point of veiw. then i was able to see the movie over here a few days after i finished the book. after reading the book i thought it made the movie a little disapointing, dont get me wrong i thought the movie was awsome but not as good as the book. book was able to give you somthing, a better insight, get u closer to the charectors i dont know what, but it made me love this universe more. it gave somthing the movie could not. i hope if the series dosnt restart the same arthor and joss can team up and write some more books

Biggest browncoat in iraq

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 29, 2005 8:13 PM

WILKS

duble post sorry

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 2:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by KRAD:
Oh, the book probably isn't canon. Here's my next question: WHO GIVES A DAMN?

I hear ya.

But hey, you know... some people do. There are dozens of threads on this board speculating about every little detail of the show and movie. Waste of time? No question, but then what is watching a football game, or reading most fiction for that matter?

I'm usually not one to get into too much of a twist over such minutiae. But the Firefly 'verse does rather suck one in. What's more, being an engineer, I want to know how it all works. That's why things like crippled spaceships still managing to fly bother me.

But of course, from your post above, "now I know that" you agree there must have been a tow truck involved, so I guess we're shiny. I'll just skip over that page next time I read the novelization.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 2:50 AM

Hi, Wilks,

Though we clearly disagree about the book, I'd just like to wish you and all your mates the very best of luck in a dangerous situation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 3:50 AM

DIETCOKE

I thoroughly enjoyed the novel and highly recommend it. Lots of more stuff as it was built from the shooting script.

I've never read a novel that was based on a movie but I think it was done extremely well, and if you're reading this KRAD, nice job, and thanks for a second ride.

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 6:39 AM

INSANITYLATER

I've been thinking about the whole "one thruster" thing, and without completely geeking out on it I was trying to think if it would be at least possible. If the side thrusters are used for direction.. doesn't the Serenity have a rear thruster, the big "full burn" guy? If that's the only one that was working, they might have been able to use the shuttle thrusters for direction enough to limp to a repair facility. Of course they would have still had to repair the structural damage and the big hole the windshield before even attempting to leave the moon. Hmm.. time for me to stop, I'm hearing William Shatner's famous "get a life" speech in the back of my mind.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Serenity NOW!!! ... Insanity later."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 10:41 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by KRAD:
Quote:
I'm a little surprised that you say the book was Joss-authorized. I've read a quote from him elsewhere that when it came to the novelization, he handed it off (the shooting script, that is) and had/wanted no further involvement. Did I misunderstand that quote? How should we resolve the apparent conflict in these statements?

Do you have a citation for this quote?
Unfortunately, I do not. I couldn't even be sure it was directly from a Joss interview and not third-hand (or worse). Perhaps it was my misunderstanding of someone's paraphrase of an offhand remark, and got lodged in my calcified brain cells that way.

Could it be you've confused a quote about the Buffy/Angel novelizations? Joss has definitely mentioned on several occasions that he has nothing to do with them.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 11:26 AM

I've got a REALLY good point to make of all this:

First: KRAD...kudos from an "non-professional" writer for getting paid to do the best job there is.

Which DOES lead to my next point. He wrote the book. Got paid to write the book. Joss okayed the book. KRAD got paid to write the book. The BDH's like the book. He got paid to write the book.

Catch the running theme so far? In case you missed it, here it is: KRAD got PAID to write the book! He's a PAID writer. He's a professional. You're not! Deal with it, or zip yer lips.

Now... I've read just about everyone of hsi books, with the exception of the buffy novels, and his writing style is in keeping with each different setting he writes about. As a writer myself, "non-paid", I find it useful to at times change point of view, perspective, etc etc. And if ya REALLY got a problem with that, go read Bram Stoker.

But I digress...the point is this: When you get paid to do it, when you get awards for doing it(myself on that one), then and ONLY then have you earned the right to be a literary critic.

"Those who write, write. Those who can't, critique"--person who's name I forgot.

If I offended anyone with my humble opinion, to bad. :P

"I aim to misbehave"
I am: http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/bigcat.htm

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 11:26 AM

I've got a REALLY good point to make of all this:

First: KRAD...kudos from an "non-professional" writer for getting paid to do the best job there is.

Which DOES lead to my next point. He wrote the book. Got paid to write the book. Joss okayed the book. KRAD got paid to write the book. The BDH's like the book. He got paid to write the book.

Catch the running theme so far? In case you missed it, here it is: KRAD got PAID to write the book! He's a PAID writer. He's a professional. You're not! Deal with it, or zip yer lips.

Now... I've read just about everyone of hsi books, with the exception of the buffy novels, and his writing style is in keeping with each different setting he writes about. As a writer myself, "non-paid", I find it useful to at times change point of view, perspective, etc etc. And if ya REALLY got a problem with that, go read Bram Stoker.

But I digress...the point is this: When you get paid to do it, when you get awards for doing it(myself on that one), then and ONLY then have you earned the right to be a literary critic.

"Those who write, write. Those who can't, critique"--person who's name I forgot.

If I offended anyone with my humble opinion, too bad. :P

"I aim to misbehave"
I am: http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/bigcat.htm

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 12:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tethys:
I've got a REALLY good point to make of all this... [snip]

Huh.

That's the first time I've ever heard anyone claim that non-writers, or non-published writers, have no right to have or express their opinions about books.

I've never written or acted in a SF TV show either. Does that mean I'm not allowed to say that I think Firefly is better than any other televised science fiction since (at least) Star Trek TOS?

Furthermore, I didn't see anything in the original post to the effect that opinions were being sought only from professional writers. Now, if that were an implied condition, how many responses (positive or negative) do you think there would be in this thread so far?

Hmmm, let's consider the career arc you're proposing:
Student -> Struggling Unpublished Writer -> First-Time Published Writer -> Successful Writer -> Blocked, Frustrated Writer -> Former Writer -> Critic
You may be on to something after all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 12:47 PM

THRAWN

Quote:
Originally posted by tethys:
I've got a REALLY good point to make of all this:

...

When you get paid to do it, when you get awards for doing it(myself on that one), then and ONLY then have you earned the right to be a literary critic.

This is my least favorite argument ever. It is in no way necessary for me to be able to do someone's job for me to criticise their doing it. Honestly. Have you ever had a professor you didn't like? Have you ever watched a sporting event and seen an athlete fail spectacularly? Have you ever read a newspaper article that confused you, or didn't cover what it should have? Did you hear about the giant mess of "relief" efforts that was the Katrina aftermath?

In all these cases, are you allowed to say "this person didn't do their job well"?

YES!

Your point, in fact, should lead to exactly the OPPOSITE conclusion. He gets PAID for what he does, I give him MONEY, so if I don't like it, I have EVERY right to say that it was bad, and that I didn't get my money's worth. If instead it was free, complaining seems a bit churlish, since I lost nothing in the reading.

That all said, I enjoyed KRAD's novelization immensely. Your argument nevertheless holds no water at all.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 1:17 PM

I rather liked the novel as well. Expressing an opinion is something I would NEVER condemn. it is simply all the KRAD bashing I see going on around here latey. People are flat out blasting him for writing a novel differently than they would or liked. It's not HIS fault that some people don't care for it. Then again, that always leads to the "If ya don't like it, change the channel" argument. If someone doesn't like it, well... Don't read it! And certainly don't trash the author.
This is the third thread at the least that I have seen on a board of "supposed" accepting and understanding people. Granted, mos tof us here ARE...it's simply the one's that aren't are currently hogging this particular thread and others like it.
Yes, you have the right to view your opinion, but simply that you paid $5.95 to purchase the book does NOT give anyone the right to tell KRAD how to write his novels.
Bear in mind the proverb of "walk a mile in a man's shoes". I've read four of his novels, bought every single one. That in no shape, form, fashion, or another give me the grounds to tell him how to write his novels.
My point was simply this: unless you are a professional writer (which I am currently semi-pro), editor, or publisher, don't expect KRAD to simply change how he writes or what. Don't bash him because you didn't like his style or narrative. Keep in mind this: 1) He is a fellow browncoat! 2) He wrote Serenity: The Novel! One of our own wrote the damn thing. I see alot of ingratitude and not a lot of appreciation for that. That's irritates me more about this than so-called "literary critics".
Don't expect another response to this post. That is all I have to say on this issue. Give him your appreciation whether or not you liked the book or what have you. I'll leave you with a quote that is applicable both to Browncoats and to this particular "debate".

"To those who believe, no explanation is neccessary. To those who do not, no explanation will do."

"I aim to misbehave"
I am: http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/bigcat.htm

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 1:51 PM

LIGHTMEDARK

From the Joss Answers Questions article on the main page (i think this is what was referred to):

Quote:
Questions from : www.destinything.com

First all, a big thank you to everyone involved for taking the time to include webmasters in the promotion of Serenity. It's great to be able to give something back to Joss after so many years of entertainment! With regards my question, whilst reading an extract of the "Serenity" novel, I was struck by a line claiming that River was particularly afraid of a certain crew member. This got me wondering how much involvement you have with novelisations. Do you provide specific background details such as this and, on a similar note, has there ever been a proposed plot development in a "Buffy" or "Angel" novel where you've had to put your foot down?

I don't have much involvement. I just don't have time. If I started to read them I'd just get frustrated and have to write them myself. This would cause fewer movies and shows. I just whistle and look the other way. Hope ya like 'em!

---
inch towards daylight

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 2:08 PM

THRAWN

Quote:
Originally posted by tethys:
I rather liked the novel as well.
...

You said you won't say any more, but I'd still like to respond to a couple of small things. Ignore them if you like; I still think this is worth saying.

I don't understand the distinction you're drawing between expressing a negative opinion and "bashing". If I didn't like the book, of course I would like it to have been written differently; that's what "I didn't like the book" means. That's not "telling KRAD how to write his novels"; the novel is already written! We can't make him write it differently; it's published already! No, what people are doing is expressing that they do not like the style in which it was written, which is entirely personal preference, and entirely an opinion.

And the sentence "unless you are a professional writer (which I am currently semi-pro), editor, or publisher, don't expect KRAD to simply change how he writes or what" is utterly ridiculous. Why does the fact that someone is professional have anything to do with how much their opinion should impact how he writes? As you yourself have said, he gets paid for writing it, and as long as he gets paid, how its written is entirely his choice. That doesn't mean criticism is useless, mean-spirited, or in any way unjust.

Finally, I'm sure everyone, regardless of their opinion on the book itself, loves that KRAD posts on these boards, and that he is a fellow fan. That is another issue entirely from enjoying the book; I've gotten into some quite spirited debates in other threads about events in Serenity and not once was I ever angry that the person I was arguing with was a fan. This is a discussion board; it's here for discussion, both positive and negative. KRAD posts here, and participates in discussions about his novel that come from both sides of the spectrum. That's incredibly admirable, and no one is saying otherwise.

I enjoy reading opinions I disagree with; in this case, people's complaints against the book are some of the items I found most charming. KRAD also wrote the characters in ways that I disagree with a bit, but in reading his interpretations, I understood my own interpretations better. His point about canon is very relevant here - this is his version of what goes on in the characters' heads; it doesn't have to be anyone else's. It's another viewpoint on a piece of art (Serenity) we all admire greatly. I treat it almost as more of an analysis than a retelling, and I appreciate it as such.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 2:48 PM

Thank you, Thrawn. I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm very impressed that you jumped to my defense (so to speak) even though your opinion of the novelization differs from mine.

In case anybody is still unclear about this: I was expressing my opinion about the book, not KRAD personally or any of his other work (which I have, in point of fact, not read). I too appreciate the fact that he posts here, where anyone can express an opinion on his work. That takes some guts! I know how an author feels about his "babies", and it can't be pleasant to see that not everyone shares those feelings.

KRAD, if you were personally offended by any of my remarks, I apologize and assure you I had no intention of causing that offense. I'm glad that others are enjoying your book.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 2:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LightMeDark:
From the Joss Answers Questions article on the main page (i think this is what was referred to):

Quote:
Questions from : www.destinything.com

First all, a big thank you to everyone involved for taking the time to include webmasters in the promotion of Serenity. It's great to be able to give something back to Joss after so many years of entertainment! With regards my question, whilst reading an extract of the "Serenity" novel, I was struck by a line claiming that River was particularly afraid of a certain crew member. This got me wondering how much involvement you have with novelisations. Do you provide specific background details such as this and, on a similar note, has there ever been a proposed plot development in a "Buffy" or "Angel" novel where you've had to put your foot down?

I don't have much involvement. I just don't have time. If I started to read them I'd just get frustrated and have to write them myself. This would cause fewer movies and shows. I just whistle and look the other way. Hope ya like 'em!

---
inch towards daylight

That's it! Thanks, LightMeDark.

I think Joss' answer is ambiguous as to whether he was referring to the Serenity novelization specifically, since the question mentioned both that and the Angel/Buffy books, with emphasis on the latter.

I certainly took him to include Serenity, but I concede that isn't absolutely clear.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 3:00 PM

I actually liked and appreciated your response. Something that was missed was the "unlesss you're a....." was simply meant as: "blowing in the wind" lol. As in, don't expect it to matter. My long-windedness got away with me there, I will admit.
Differences of opinion are grand, "IMO" HOWEVER, it's the idea that "My opinon is good for you, but your opinion sucks" attitude that I really don't like. My OPINION is that the book is good and I enjoyed it.
I really don't try to force my opinon on anyone, and don't care for those that do. If someone doesn't like, nothing wrong with that. I didn't care for Chronicles of Narnia (I know...heresy right?). BUT, you don't see me posting up anywhere telling C.S. Lewis how to write. THAT'S my point the way it shouldd have been told. It's the PRESUMPTION, not the OPINION that I personally have a problem with.
Or like this: A lot of people like the websites/graphics I make. Some people don't. I thank those that don't for not telling me how to organize my html or php. Same difference.
Thanks for the good reply, it made me re-think what it was I was trying to say.....LOL

"I aim to misbehave"
I am: http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/bigcat.htm

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 30, 2005 8:16 PM

For the record, I don't take offense at any criticism of my work. I used to write reviews fairly regularly, and sometimes wrote negative reviews, so it'd be pretty churlish of me to bitch about getting them now.

Generally, I try only to respond to negative criticism with explanations of why I made certain choices that were criticized. I admit, I'm particularly sensitive to the complaints about my use of intense POV, particularly in a movie novelization, because the one thing that prose brings to the table that TV and movies simply cannot do is get inside the heads of the characters. So when I write a novelization in particular, I'm aggressive about POV, to ther point where the narration style reflects that of the person in whose POV that scene is in precisely because I know that's something you won't get onscreen.

But I have no problem with people expressing displeasure with my work. That's part of the business, and I'm okay with that.

Keith R.A. DeCandido
keith@decandido.net
www.DeCandido.net | www.AlbeShiloh.com
www.livejournal.com/~kradical

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, October 31, 2005 1:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by KRAD:
...I'm particularly sensitive to the complaints about my use of intense POV, particularly in a movie novelization, because the one thing that prose brings to the table that TV and movies simply cannot do is get inside the heads of the characters. So when I write a novelization in particular, I'm aggressive about POV, to ther point where the narration style reflects that of the person in whose POV that scene is in precisely because I know that's something you won't get onscreen.

Fair enough. Your choice obviously worked better for others than it did for me. If anything, I envy them their fuller enjoyment of the book.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, October 31, 2005 2:11 AM